Kamille Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 I am in the middle of my first fight with my bf. It's not really a fight, but it's the first time that I cry about anything between us.We are both working in a related field and he has more experience then I do in that field. I often find myself feeling insecure discussing work around him and, at the same time, we hardly ever have any discussions about work (yet our jobs are very discussion oriented). In other words, I often feel like I am not a match for him intellectually or, to put it another way, that he doesn't consider that I am a match for him intellectually. Tonight, we were invited over to dinner at friend's house near his place, so the plan was that I would stay over at his place afterward. In fact, I am at his place right now, writing this, on my laptop.During dinner, I was talking about something in my field and he made a 'joke' about whether or not I really knew what I was talking about. Once we got home, I told him I hadn't appreciated his comment, he said he was sorry, that he hadn't measured the full impact of his comment, etc. He then asked me if there was more to it then me being upset about that comment. There is. It is the first time in my life that I feel so insecure intellectually with a partner. I answered that there wass more, but that we should talk about it tomorow. (I'm tired, slightly drunk and upset). He is off to bed and I'm wondering if I should go home or stay and sleep here. I'm also wondering how I will present all of this tomorow.Any advice?
spooty Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 you should stay there because you're drunk, you could sleep on the couch if you want, but i think that may be making more of this than you should. tomorrow you should discuss this with him. tell him that sometimes you feel like he looks down on your intelligence and his comment confirmed this. tell him that it was disrespectful to put you down in front of friends and that he was out of line doing it. some bfs and gfs rag on each other, but if you don't want to be that type then you need to tell him tomorrow. i'm sure there are plenty of traits that you have that he considers better than his, like can you sing? play and instrument? are you better socially? are you a better writer? do you have more friends? are you more passionate? i'm sure there is something about you that he envies that spurred him to bring you down with that comment. i think my bf is smarter than me, and once in a while he'll make me feel that way. but he also envies that i am more emotionally in-tune, creative and right brained and he knows that i am superior in those areas, so he doesn't pick at those, just at my spelling and driving skills. oh another thing to think about, i confronted my bf for similar reasons and he said the reason he picks on me about certain things is because he sees the need for improvement, so it's not really negative, he wanted me to be better, maybe that's why you bf said it, to challenge you. a partner that always pushes you to be better is a good one to have. you gotta talk to him, but try to lead it in a positive way, k?
Author Kamille Posted December 2, 2007 Author Posted December 2, 2007 Thanks Spooty. i'm sure there are plenty of traits that you have that he considers better than his, like can you sing? play and instrument? are you better socially? He tells me all the time that I am better at crosswords. Somehow that doesn't quite cut it. We're both academics so we're in a field where intelligence matters and that is why I wish we could find a way to have stimulating intellectual conversations. I think that for him it doesn't matter whether or not I can match him intellectually. I'm his first 'academic' girlfriend. I know he's crazy about me, although I can't really specifically name anything that he perticularly appreciates. He gives me a lot of compliments, but they tend to be about my looks.
Mezzi Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 I think your boyfriend is out of line. Just tell him that he is making you uncomfortable by his snide comments about work and your knowledge. Let him know that not because you are inexperienced in the field that means you are a fool. Further, that if you do not know how to approach something in the field since he is more experienced and knowledgable he should guide you in a gentle manner and not brag or put you down.
Trialbyfire Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 In other words, I often feel like I am not a match for him intellectually or, to put it another way, that he doesn't consider that I am a match for him intellectually. Kamille, anyone with less experience in a field will have less working knowledge. Less working knowledge doesn't make you less intelligent. Having said that, is it good for your relationship to be competitive with each other, within the same or similar fields? This is reliant on your personality types. Some men prefer to be dominant and dislike being challenged by their partners, within their field of perceived expertise. Some men like the stimulation of having a partner who challenges them intellectually. For me, the only type of partner that works, is the latter. I adore men who enjoy being challenged or challenge me. You have to decide what suits the two of you. In making his comment, in effect, he's challenging your comments. You can either go on the defensive, which rarely works, or you can go on a humour-based offensive next time, and ask him to back up his comment with fact, not anecdoetal information.
Keara Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 I've found that when people have to make a "joke" about your ability it's because they are insecure. It sounds to me like you're the first girlfriend he's had where he knows he's not the superior intellect he imagines himself as. You believe he is.. But does he honestly believe he is, or is he just trying like hell to not feel like an idiot around you because he knows you're just as intelligent, if not more so, then he is? He's only dated women who couldn't challenge him intellectually. He starts dating you (a person who has the smarts to do the same job he does, and who obviously can hold her own or she wouldn't have the job in the first place) and he feels pressured to stay in the role he's played in the past.. the higher intelligence role. You are challenging his self-image as "the smart one" simply by existing. His reaction is to defend his self-image by proving he is smarter. Look up some of the psychology behind protecting the self-image we hold of ourselves. We will do damn near anything to keep it intact, even if it means hurting those we love sometimes. All I'm saying is that maybe he knows you are his match and that scares him. Or he's an ass who just proved he's an idiot, and you should cut him lose.
compassion42 Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 I really think Keara is on to something. When people put others down-even "jokingly" it is most likely due to a feeling of insecurity within themselves. I have a feeling your bf is intimidated by your intelligence,Kamille! How are things going today-did you get a chance to talk to him about this?
serial muse Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 I am in the middle of my first fight with my bf. It's not really a fight, but it's the first time that I cry about anything between us.We are both working in a related field and he has more experience then I do in that field. I often find myself feeling insecure discussing work around him and, at the same time, we hardly ever have any discussions about work (yet our jobs are very discussion oriented). In other words, I often feel like I am not a match for him intellectually or, to put it another way, that he doesn't consider that I am a match for him intellectually. Tonight, we were invited over to dinner at friend's house near his place, so the plan was that I would stay over at his place afterward. In fact, I am at his place right now, writing this, on my laptop.During dinner, I was talking about something in my field and he made a 'joke' about whether or not I really knew what I was talking about. Once we got home, I told him I hadn't appreciated his comment, he said he was sorry, that he hadn't measured the full impact of his comment, etc. He then asked me if there was more to it then me being upset about that comment. There is. It is the first time in my life that I feel so insecure intellectually with a partner. I answered that there wass more, but that we should talk about it tomorow. (I'm tired, slightly drunk and upset). He is off to bed and I'm wondering if I should go home or stay and sleep here. I'm also wondering how I will present all of this tomorow.Any advice? This is interesting, I had a similar experience with my BF a while back. I'm guessing that, for you to be so upset, there have been other times when he made casually thoughtless comments that imply that he thinks he's smarter than you. I'm sure it's unintentional (or at least not consciously done), but it's still thoughtless and hurtful (not to mention very likely untrue) and he should be aware of it. I agree with Keara that he may be feeling competitive with you, and therefore feeling insecure on some level and feeling an unconscious need to assert himself at your expense. That's definitely something to nip in the bud. If you haven't already, have an honest conversation about what you've observed and how this makes you feel. How he deals with that will tell you a lot. And if you have, how did it go?
Storyrider Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 Kamille, surely you know how intelligent you are? I can tell just from having read your posts over the past year. For me, the issue would be not whether his snide remarks are true, but what is motivating him to make them? First, are you sure these are truly cuts and not just flirtatious banter? Was there a lot of verbal sparring in his family growing up? Sometimes it is just a question of personal style. Also, guys jab each other like this all the time and they mean it in a chummy way. It could be a Mars/Venus thing. If you think any of the above theories sound accurate, I agree with TBF that you should use humor. If you feel he is sincerely trying to bring you down a peg or two, I would wonder whether he has ego problems or is even slightly sadistic. I would want my guy to focus on my strengths not my weaknesses and to want to build me up rather than tear me down. Isn't that what love is all about? Why would he want to make you feel bad about yourself unless to bolster his own self-esteem in some twisted way? If you think he is chipping away at you on purpose I would seriously question whether you are right for one another. But either way, I wouldn't even consider the idea that you aren't smart enough. That is a load of BS.
johan Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 I think you're wasting your time with this guy. You're clearly smarter than I am, and I'm sure you'd be much more comfortable with me. But do what you have to do...
Author Kamille Posted December 3, 2007 Author Posted December 3, 2007 Thanks everyone for the replies. I ended up staying the night. He was asleep when I went to bed (I stayed up an hour trying to figure out why I was so upset). This morning he woke me up with a cup of coffee and we had a heart to heart. He explained that he didn't even realize how much that comment had unsettled me. I told him pretty much what I wrote here, that the comment had upset me because they played in my own insecurities about not being an intellectual match for him. I told him that it bothered me that we hardly ever had intellectual conversations and he looked at me and was like : "well what about yesterday when I asked you about your opinion on such and such subject?" He said that the fact that we are in related fields and that we get each other's work is what he finds most amazing about us. He told me he was going to try and avoid being so 'pointed' with his comments - but that if it ever happened again that I should just make fun of him. He also said my comments suprised him because if anything he was hoping that I would have gained confidence at work since meeting him. And the fact is that I have gained tremendous confidence at work since being with him. It's little key things that he's done to help me deal with the stress of it all at certain times. I'm actually really glad we had this conversation because now, if anything, it's helped me address my own insecurities about all this. And I do feel, as I have from the beginning, that he is the kind of guy who wants to build me up, not bring me down. But yeah, Story you're right - the comment he made he also makes with his male buddies and coworkers. So I guess in a way, if anything, the fact he challenged me is proof I'm one of the guys. He thinks I can take it. So all in all, I think we pulled through. But Johan, I will keep your offer on file, if ever I decide that I'm the one who needs to feel intellectually superior in order to be happy in a relationship.
melodymatters Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 So all in all, I think we pulled through. But Johan, I will keep your offer on file, if ever I decide that I'm the one who needs to feel intellectually superior in order to be happy in a relationship. :lmao:
Storyrider Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 But yeah, Story you're right - the comment he made he also makes with his male buddies and coworkers. So I guess in a way, if anything, the fact he challenged me is proof I'm one of the guys. He thinks I can take it. In my experience working with guys, they can throw pretty sharp verbal or even actual punches. I have witnessed two office wrestling matches in my time between college-educated engineers, one that ended with the request to an onlooker, "Hey Sullivan, toss me that metal rod!" Another was actually over how to set a thermostat. And then in the blink of an eye the two guys go grab a sandwich as if nothing has happened. No big deal. So all in all, I think we pulled through. But Johan, I will keep your offer on file, if ever I decide that I'm the one who needs to feel intellectually superior in order to be happy in a relationship. How could anyone who can verbally best Johan not be smart.
JCD Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 I think he doesn't believe you that you know what you're talking about but if you prove him wrong he will be respectful to you. He still doesn't have respect for you and instead he covered it up with sugar words. Remember he said that if it happens again he wants you to make fun of him. You see, a guy thinks he is a protector of a woman and thus he needs to feel that he is smarter because if he wasn't then the woman would know how to protect herself and wouldn't need him and that would be death to him. So, I suggest you just make him think he's smarter than you and everything will be fine. If you prove to him that you're smarter, he will respect you but won't talk to you about those topics again. He will feel useless around you and will dump you for someone who makes him feel useful. Just my opinion.
Trialbyfire Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 I think he doesn't believe you that you know what you're talking about but if you prove him wrong he will be respectful to you. He still doesn't have respect for you and instead he covered it up with sugar words. Remember he said that if it happens again he wants you to make fun of him. You see, a guy thinks he is a protector of a woman and thus he needs to feel that he is smarter because if he wasn't then the woman would know how to protect herself and wouldn't need him and that would be death to him. So, I suggest you just make him think he's smarter than you and everything will be fine. If you prove to him that you're smarter, he will respect you but won't talk to you about those topics again. He will feel useless around you and will dump you for someone who makes him feel useful. Just my opinion. Interesting insight. Every woman has an arsenal of things they can do, just to please a man and effectively get him, even retain him for the long-term. The question is, what kind of relationship do you want and expect with your partner?
johan Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 I'm waiting for the thread called "First Make-up Sex"...
Author Kamille Posted December 4, 2007 Author Posted December 4, 2007 I think he doesn't believe you that you know what you're talking about but if you prove him wrong he will be respectful to you. He still doesn't have respect for you and instead he covered it up with sugar words. Remember he said that if it happens again he wants you to make fun of him. You see, a guy thinks he is a protector of a woman and thus he needs to feel that he is smarter because if he wasn't then the woman would know how to protect herself and wouldn't need him and that would be death to him. So, I suggest you just make him think he's smarter than you and everything will be fine. If you prove to him that you're smarter, he will respect you but won't talk to you about those topics again. He will feel useless around you and will dump you for someone who makes him feel useful. Just my opinion. I 'm not sure just how serious you are but, hmmm, for the moment there is no problem because he is annoyingly more knowledgeable then I am. But I am a quick learner so he better watch out! One day one day.... I'm waiting for the thread called "First Make-up Sex"... That thread would deserve its own website.
lbj123 Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 It sounds to me like you handled the situation very well. Sometimes people do not even realize what they are doing until it is pointed out to them. That is why communication is the most important aspect of a relationship. You were upset (and not in a silly, overreacting way, you really felt validly hurt) and, rather than keeping it inside and analyzing it to death, you confronted the situation in a non confrontational way, discussed the issue and it sounds like he was sincerely apologetic and understanding. Now you have to let go of your insecurities and see how future situations play out. If he continues to do this in the future than that is a problem, but if he doesn't then it sounds like you nipped it in the bud! Good job communicating...I know how difficult it can be!
NYCHottie Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 Why do you think he felt the need to publicly belittle you like that?
Author Kamille Posted December 11, 2007 Author Posted December 11, 2007 Why do you think he felt the need to publicly belittle you like that? With hindsight, I don't think the comment was meant to belittle me so much as to 'provoke me' if that makes sense. Just before he made the comment, he was engaged in a similar kind of teasing -theoretical argument with another man at the table. Like I said, I felt belittle, but it was perhaps his way of including me in the conversation as one of the guys. It hasn't happened again, if anything I've been paying more attention to the times when he does make me feel like a smart cookie. And there are plenty of those. I really do beleive now, that which I didn't at the time, that he does enjoy our intellectual conversations.
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