luvmy2ns Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Unless you kill someone you don't destroy anyone's life or relatoinship for that matter, YOU are responsible for your life all on your own. If your feel your life was destroyed it's because you haven't got a handle on your life and have not done a good enough job to make it better. It clearly still needs more work. No one but you is responsible for your happiness and good life. But others can clearly make another's life a living hell. Such as the serial killer, the serial cheater, or the serial OW.
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Unless you kill someone you don't destroy anyone's life or relatoinship for that matter, YOU are responsible for your life all on your own. If your feel your life was destroyed it's because you haven't got a handle on your life and have not done a good enough job to make it better. It clearly still needs more work. No one but you is responsible for your happiness and good life. Action and consequences Tomcat. No doubt you're responsible for your own life. You're also responsible to the rest of society, to an extent. There's a limit to how far everyone should take their own personal happiness.
Mustang Sally Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 And I do think this young one is telling her the truth. My MM wishes he could be so honest with his wife, but at times when he did try she would say things like, "Oh, you're sick!". Then he felt the door was shut forever and he just won't go there ever again. For example, how many times a week he masterbates. He can tell me, Lizzie, or any OW these things without being judged. This is one of the reasons a man has an OW. He wants to show an intimate partner who he really is and to be accepted for who he is at the very core. His wife wants him to be respectable, providing, caring, and there. But he wants to know she will love him even when he is dirty or says dirty things. And he doesn't want to be judged for it. So it's the old "Madonna/Whore" rearing it's head again? Except in the male version...? Hmmm. <scratching head thoughtfully> Thank you for this thought, WhiteFlower. I'm going to have to ponder this one for awhile. Seriously.
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 But others can clearly make another's life a living hell. Such as the serial killer, the serial cheater, or the serial OW. If you let someone affect you to such extend of course, the choice is STILL yours you own your own feelings no one else controls them.
luvmy2ns Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 If you let someone affect you to such extend of course, the choice is STILL yours you own your own feelings no one else controls them. I think if a serial killer were slowly killing you for their pleasure, you would "feel" awful at the hands of that person. It's certainly not within your power to enjoy it, now is it?
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Action and consequences Tomcat. No doubt you're responsible for your own life. You're also responsible to the rest of society, to an extent. There's a limit to how far everyone should take their own personal happiness. Well thanks for "volunteering" me as general deputy debtor to society but I ain't interested in that role. "to an extent?" what does that mean "to an extent?" so there are limits to my debt to society then? stipulated by whom or what?
Owl Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Lizzie's partners are hardly victims nor are they non-consenting. AGREED...COMPLETELY. However...what about her partner's wives and families? I know that Lizzie has said that what she does has no impact on their marriages, but this is patently wrong. Whatever MM invests in Lizzie...money, time...ESPECIALLY emotions...he's now NOT investing in his wife, or his family. And they suffer for that loss. Even if they don't understand what's going on, they will feel that loss. Its the reason why nearly every BS has that "gut feeling". They sense the emotional withdrawl of their WS, but they often don't know why. That's because its the last thing that they would expect out of the person that they placed all that love and trust into. Its not that they're turning a blind eye...its that its often nearly impossible for them to believe that this person could actually betray them like that. There ARE victims in infidelity...
reboot Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 There ARE victims in infidelity...And some of you absolutely refuse to admit this.
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Well thanks for "volunteering" me as general deputy debtor to society but I ain't interested in that role. "to an extent?" what does that mean "to an extent?" so there are limits to my debt to society then? stipulated by whom or what? Why are you averse to court certified sane serial killers making themselves happy?
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 I think if a serial killer were slowly killing you for their pleasure, you would "feel" awful at the hands of that person. It's certainly not within your power to enjoy it, now is it? No you are wrong actually I would thoroughly enjoy that!! I would ask to join in and cut my own limbs off I'll try everything once.
luvmy2ns Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 By the same token, and to a much different degree, I "felt" PO'd for the little old lady, probably in her 80's, who was almost trampled by the selfish, uncaring little bitch teenagers in K Mart who plowed their way past her to get in line in front of her when she was almost at the checkstand. Had I been the checker, I would have sent the little snot nosed brats to the end of the line. We all have a responsiblity to not be asswipes to eachother. If we all go through this world thinking we can do whatever we want because, after all, we can't "make" anyone feel bad; they just feel how they want to feel; it's not OUR responsibility, this world would SUCK. It's already getting worse and worse day by day with people and their ever increasing "me first" attitudes.
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 AGREED...COMPLETELY. However...what about her partner's wives and families? I know that Lizzie has said that what she does has no impact on their marriages, but this is patently wrong. The partner's wives and familie's are not Lizzie's responsibility. She is not married to them he is. What about the children that cough up blood so that you can buy your cotton T-shirt for $6.99 instead of $10 when it is really worth only the $1 Half their month salary, OWL?
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Another example: A drug dealer. He sells drugs and makes a ton of money. He's happy with his Escalade and bling rings, his overall lifestyle. Based on the aforementioned logic, he should be respected for his choice in life.
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Another example: The alcoholic who insists on driving drunk. He's happy, therefore he should be respected for his choice in life.
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Why are you averse to court certified sane serial killers making themselves happy? "Court certified sane serial killer" that's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. Yet another reason why the deep flaws in the system leave me with little faith in their judegement and more in my own. By the way you should ask yourself how you can trust a system that deems serial killers as sane and also proposes the moral codes you defend tooth and nail. I try to abide by rules but my major rule is if it makes me feel like crap it can't be good for me. I'm pretty happy that way.
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Another example: The alcoholic who insists on driving drunk. He's happy, therefore he should be respected for his choice in life. another ridiculous example people can die from drunk drivers, no one dies from an affair. Get a grip.
luvmy2ns Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 And Lizzie's next door neighbor can play his rap music at an ear-splitting 130 decibles in the wee hours of the night because it makes him happy. It's not up to him to be quiet in the dead of night so she can sleep. She is responsible for her own life; her own peace of mind. She can just like the noise, because she can simply choose to.
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Another example: A drug dealer. He sells drugs and makes a ton of money. He's happy with his Escalade and bling rings, his overall lifestyle. Based on the aforementioned logic, he should be respected for his choice in life. Well some BS mentality is "if someone I love is using drugs we must go after the drug dealer and that will make the problem go away" what stupidity
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Another example: The cheater who decides to have 4 OWs and tells every single one of them that they're his one and only, so they believe him. In the meantime, he's got a happy little family at home and a wife who isn't aware he's cheating. He's happy so I guess we should also respect his choices in life.
luvmy2ns Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 "Court certified sane serial killer" that's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. Of course the court certifies someone sane or not. Good gawd. If they didn't have the power to make those decisions, we'd have every single serial killer in some mental hospital, and we'd be paying to keep them breathing every day for the rest of their lives. Some people are just sick b**tards and enjoy making others suffer. Do you seriously not realize that? Others are truly suffering from a chemical imbalance, or maybe they suffered from a traumatic brain injury. It's up to experts to make the distinction between the two.
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 And Lizzie's next door neighbor can play his rap music at an ear-splitting 130 decibles in the wee hours of the night because it makes him happy. It's not up to him to be quiet in the dead of night so she can sleep. She is responsible for her own life; her own peace of mind. She can just like the noise, because she can simply choose to. He can like it if he wants to, there are neighbours that will put up with it and just shove another pillow over their head to make the noise go way, others will knock on the door and complain. Others will call the police there ARE ALWAYS options no matter how inconsiderate your neighbour is being you always have an option. If he just won't stop then sell your place and move. ALWAYS options. That's life you will encounter thorns in your side no matter where you go and what you do in life question is are you going to sit there and let jab into your side deeper and deeper or are you going to do something about it? I don't do the victim thing well as you can see.
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Of course the court certifies someone sane or not. Good gawd. If they didn't have the power to make those decisions, we'd have every single serial killer in some mental hospital, and we'd be paying to keep them breathing every day for the rest of their lives. Some people are just sick b**tards and enjoy making others suffer. Do you seriously not realize that? Others are truly suffering from a chemical imbalance, or maybe they suffered from a traumatic brain injury. It's up to experts to make the distinction between the two. "serial killer" what part of that screams sanity to you? If it does I hope to GOD you never have to represent a trial in a jury. yikes!
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Another example: A cheater who claims he loves the OW but throws her under the bus, when D-day arrives. He's happy so I guess we should respect his choices.
Author Lizzie60 Posted November 28, 2007 Author Posted November 28, 2007 In this, I have to fully disagree. Not all of us want what she has. If we did, I suspect we could make it a booming business... I don't want to brag (honestly) but I don't think many 55 yr old would have a booming business in that field... and even many 20+ yr old.... even if they wanted to...
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Another example: A cheater who claims he loves the OW but throws her under the bus, when D-day arrives. He's happy so I guess we should respect his choices. Yeah you should accept his choice for no other reason than to claim YOUR own dignity. What's with all the examples about respect. I never said you have to respect Lizzie you don't have to do anything you don't feel!! I respect her coming to terms with her choices and finding something that truly makes her happy, sorry we don't see eye to eye but that's expected we never have and prob never will. I'm cool with that hope you are too.
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