Salvagable?

[shadowplay]

I think his behavior is very consistent with a typical guy's. He was a bit weirded out by your epsiode on the last date and didn't know what to make of it. He probably concluded that he had done something wrong and you didn't like him. Confused, he backed off a bit and didn't call you right away. Maybe he was looking for some encouragement. Then you sent him that text and it just confirmed his suspicions that you were upset at him/didn't like him. He probably thought it was a lost cause at this point and decided not to pursue any further.

 

Guys are by nature non-confrontational. When they feel a situation has gotten "messy" or somebody is upset at them they passively avoid. I don't think it has as much to do with interest as it does avoidance of conflict. Even if he was interested in you, he hasn't known you long enough to be attached (guys take more time to form attachment than women). He's not invested enough to keep on trying at the risk of possible rejection or uncomfortable confrontation.

 

Hre's an example from my personal experience.

 

I had a terrible first date with my current bf of five months. I was thirty minutes late, and when I finally arrived I was shy to the point of being rude. Realizing how much I had royally screwed up, that night I did the very opposite of what the Rules would advice -- I emailed him and apologized for my behavior. I remember thinking to myself after the first date, "I want this guy to be my bf...I'm not going to let him go." I explained that I had a good time with him but I'm a bit shy at first and hoped he didn't mistake my quiet demeanor for lack of interest. He responded the next day, alluding to a second date but not setting a firm day. I imed him that night and didn't mention a second date but acted very friendly. Again, he didn't bring up a second date. Finally he sent me a text a few hours later asking if I wanted to go to a museum with him later that week. So I was pretty persistant after that first date, and it turns out I did the right thing. Later he told me that after the first date he thought that I hated him. He was pleasantly surprised to get my email, but he still wasn't sure if I liked him (which is why he was nervous about asking me on a second date). He said it wasn't until I dropped him a big hint on the second date that he realized how I felt. Had I not been so persistant after the failed first date, there's a strong possibility I would have never heard from him again. And it wasn't for lack of interest -- he had a big crush on me from the day we first met, which was several months before our first date. Guys need encouragement.

[Jilly Bean]

Though I agree with a lot of what you had to say about male behavior, I disagree about my text messages. I think they conveyed that I assumed he was no longer interested since he hadn't contacted me for days, which was unlike him. At any point, he could have stepped up and explained that he felt he should back off, blah blah, and that not calling was not a lack of interest.

 

I think if I were to take him at face value, I would read him as someone who pursued me strongly, didn't get sex as quickly as he would have liked, so then he stopped calling entirely.

 

And if the situation had gotten messy, it's because he helped push it there. If he can't take responsibility, then I'd rather know that now.

[Kamille]

 

I guess I would have thought he would have picked up the phone already, but then again I have to think how long it takes guys to process things. I could hear from him in a month - lol.

 

 

 

Ah Jilly Bean, I'm so sorry you haven't heard from him, but I have to agree with those who say that it's your reaction to how far things went and not actually how far things went that probably sent him MIA. But you might hear from him yet. I just hope you will stop feeling guilty and confused about it if he does - stop apologizing and take responsibility for how things went.

 

In fact, I wonder if it isn't your generalizations about men in general (such as the one above), or the one where you say no guy says no to sex when it is offered, that informed your initial reaction. Also, I think you believe that you will lose value in men's eyes if you go too far too soon.

 

What I've come to discover in years of leading the single life is that it's not so much how soon you have sex that matters as how you react after you do. (Same goes for going too far too soon without having sex). You can either confidently take responsibility for your desires or freak out, make excuses, say it isn't like you etc. In the first case, I always heard back from the guys. I mean, a confident woman is attractive. In the second, disappearing acts ensued.

[Jilly Bean]

Well, Kamille, the irony is that I have ALWAYS followed my sexual impulses in the past, and had sex whenever I felt like it. Which, was often the first or second date. I thought this guy was different, and I wanted it to be different, which is why I was trying to wait longer than knowing someone a week. I have never had a lot of success in having sex too soon, so yes, it is my personal experience that shapes my views. I thought I would try the opposite, and see how that goes. Funny how when I try to show some restraint, it blows up just as quickly.

 

So, this wasn't about freaking out about the ACT or not being confident at all, it was me being upset with myself for NOT doing what I set out to, and that was keeping my legs closed. It was the same reaction as not hitting the home run that the team needed to win the game.

 

Things ended very nicely with him that night - we hugged tenderly, kissed good night, etc., so him going MIA can only show me that he was pissed me didn't get the sex as quickly as he thought he would.

[Jilly Bean]

OK, so what I think really happened is that he processed me wanting to stop fooling around as rejection. He then pulled away. I processed his pulling away as rejection, and then tried to bait him into talking, and he didn't take the bait.

 

So, his insecurities fueled my insecurities, and that is why we are at where we are.

 

Tragic, really. But I think when you get older, dating is like a big baggage fest. Hopefully he'll do some thinking and we can talk this out in a few days...

[Star Gazer]

I think it was your text message that pushed him away. The reaction during the "act" may have caused him some concern, but the text is what drove the nail in the coffin, I'm afraid.

[oppath]

I think it was your text message that pushed him away. The reaction during the "act" may have caused him some concern, but the text is what drove the nail in the coffin, I'm afraid.

 

Agreed.

 

The advice we gave you was to ask him out on a date yourself, not to say "you are clearly not interested." How you reacted towards him could very well influence him giving you space.

 

If a girl says to me "I need space or I need to slow this down," even if she is just talking about sex, despite what your guy friend says, I'm probably not contacting her for a couple days. I'm going to give her the space. I am going to slow things down and let her set the pace by her showing me the pace that is comfortable for her.

 

What you should have done was call HIM and ask him on a date. If anything, you say "I haven't heard from you in a couple days. What's up?" Basically, you overreacted with the sex thing, then you jumped to conclusions and tried to read his mind, and then you catastrophized everything and saw things in terms of black and white, all or nothing thinking, and you essentially ended things without giving him a chance.

[Racquel Colette]

The real heart of the problem is that you did let it get too sexual too soon.

[Jilly Bean]

You know, I have to say I find everyone's reaction and advice in situations like this to be fascinating. It's like everyone expects the woman to cave, tolerate, and kowtow to any kind of actions from a man just to keep him. In my opinion, he was wrong to pull away as he did. There was no reason for that to begin with. How come no one sees that as being impactful? How come no one seems to find men culpable? Are all women just so conditioned to take responsibility for bad male behavior that they will instantly blame a woman for whatever a man may do? It's really, really interesting. I think if he were as interested as he was BEFORE he didn't get sex, he would have called me four times on SUN as he normally would. Strange that none of you seem to think he is at any kind of fault for the demise. Had he of sent even a simple text saying hi, how is your day? Then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all, as we would still be seeing each other.

 

And for the record, I DID NOT overreact to the sex thing. I wanted to STOP. I told him it didn't feel right, he said, ok, and then we cuddled. If that is grounds for over-reacting, then yeah, I guess I am guilty. But I think saying I am not comfortable going further is hardly an over-reaction. I think letting it continue and THEN being upset would be an over-reaction. But, unlike many out there, I will stand up for what I want and don't want. So, if that is an over-reaction, perhaps we need to redefine it. We did not have a fight, did not have words, did not have any drama over it. Apparently when he went home, HE processed it all to appear that he was rejected, and rather than continue pursuing me, he pulled back ENTIRELY and stopped all contact. There really was no need for that, and I think if we are going to point fingers, we should start with that act right there.

 

Oppath - you are entitled to your opinion, but in MY opinion, using all of your SHOULD HAVE's that you did for me, I think HE SHOULD HAVE called me the next day and said it was fine that we didn't shag, he doesn't mind waiting. At the least, HE SHOULD HAVE made some kind of contact over the two days. I think HE SHOULD HAVE called me when he got the first text asking why I haven't heard from him, and if I was wrong in my assumptions, then most interested men would have stepped up to discuss it. I think HE jumped to conclusions thinking I had rejected him, and HE tried to read my mind. And HE LET THINGS END by not responding or contacting me at ANY point since we said goodbye on SAT night.

 

Sorry, but I don't buy into this whole mentality that women are always to blame when guys screw up. I think its that thinking that keeps women subservient, and in unhappy, and unfulfilling relationships. I am sure a lot of women are OK tolerating various kinds of abuse just so they can say they have a man.

[Jilly Bean]

If a girl says to me "I need space or I need to slow this down," even if she is just talking about sex, despite what your guy friend says, I'm probably not contacting her for a couple days. I'm going to give her the space. I am going to slow things down and let her set the pace by her showing me the pace that is comfortable for her. quote]

 

Fair and fine, but I never ONCE asked for space or to slow anything down. He took it upon himself to walk away, I never asked him to. I said I didn't want to have sex AT THAT MOMENT. For him to pull back entirely for days was unnecessary. I think a lot of men would have acted like my friend. He knew I was sensitive about it, so he should have assured me it was fine that we wait, that he had no problem with it. To avoid me and ignore me is NOT the way you go about furthering a relationship.

 

Racquel - agreed. It supports my fears that I had with him to begin with - that sex too soon can ruin a relationship.

[oppath]

Oppath - you are entitled to your opinion, but in MY opinion, using all of your SHOULD HAVE's that you did for me, I think HE SHOULD HAVE called me the next day and said it was fine that we didn't shag, he doesn't mind waiting. At the least, HE SHOULD HAVE made some kind of contact over the two days. I think HE SHOULD HAVE called me when he got the first text asking why I haven't heard from him, and if I was wrong in my assumptions, then most interested men would have stepped up to discuss it. I think HE jumped to conclusions thinking I had rejected him, and HE tried to read my mind. And HE LET THINGS END by not responding or contacting me at ANY point since we said goodbye on SAT night.

 

Sorry, but I don't buy into this whole mentality that women are always to blame when guys screw up. I think its that thinking that keeps women subservient, and in unhappy, and unfulfilling relationships. I am sure a lot of women are OK tolerating various kinds of abuse just so they can say they have a man.

 

I apologize for my solitary "should have." Should means ****. Replace should with "it would be nice if" or "it would be more effective if."

 

I understand what you are saying, but as a guy, I look at things differently. When a woman wants things to slow down, sexually or emotionally, I am going to back off and give her space. I expect her to make the effort to dictate the pace of the relationship, to show me what she is comfortable with. Why? Because if I don't, then I am moving things too fast! I assume if she is asking for space then somehow I am doing something wrong, so I slow down.

 

This man did not abuse you. Yes, it would be nice if he called you the next day, but you know what? There is an equally good chance he wanted to give you the space he felt you needed based on your reaction. Am I blaming you? No, but you have equal blame as he does.

 

And why would he call you back to your text? You didn't say "haven't heard from you, what's up?" You said "It's obvious you aren't interested or met someone else so don't bother." I don't think I'd call back if someone jumped to that conclusion.

 

Yes, it would have been nice if he called. But he cannot read your mind, and you can't read his. You seem upset with him that he did not read your mind. And instead of asking him what is on his, you jumped to conclusions and assumed the worst case scenario when any number of things could have been going on in his head.

 

With this guy, sure, he maybe lost interest. There is a good chance of that. But you don't know. You are placing all the blame on him. Did you even give him a chance? I'd say it's 50/50 on him having still had a very high interest, and how you behaved made that 0/100.

 

Telling a guy you need to slow things down...even if you are talking about the sexual part, chances are, he is going to slow EVERYTHING down. Why? Because if he does not, then he risks ruining the relationship by moving things too fast. I've been on both sides of it, when the woman freaks if I call every day, and when the woman freaks if I call her every 3 days!!! If you wanted things to move more slowly, the best thing to do would have been for you to reach out and set the pace, to show him what you were comfortable with.

[oppath]

I reread your first post and quite honestly: he was concerned you were mad at him. In his shoes, I would have felt that your reaction was not just about sex, but about the overall pace of the relationship, talking to someone everyday that you met online. That is pretty intense. If I am in that situation, and a girl wants to slow down sex, I'm going to slow everything down. It does not mean I am not interested. It means I would think "things were going kind of fast, maybe we should move more slowly, talk a little less, and get to know each other more as people."

 

There is a good chance that this guy was thinking those things.

[Trialbyfire]

Jillybean, I'm not going to lambast you for your reaction. It's awkward when the guy doesn't call to acknowledge the next day. I think guys need to be sensitive to this, so I agree with your guy friend that he dropped the ball. So, let's consider this a -1 for him.

 

But...as mentioned by shadowplay, your guy might have doing the conflict-avoidant thing, since you did react a bit at the end of the date. While we women vent, sometimes guys take it as an indication of our displeasure at them, when sometimes we're upset at ourselves or at the situation. This, I would consider a push, in the way that it was a situational misunderstanding.

 

As for your text message, it was a little overboard. So, let's consider this a -1 for you.

 

At the end of the day, it looks like it's Jilly (-1), Date (-1). Any chance you could call him to see if you can't bring your score back to 0 and provide him with the opportunity to bring his score back to 0, again?

[Jilly Bean]

No, I was not placing all the blame on him at all. I said in my last post that his insecurities fueled mine. It was shared responsibility for sure.

 

And I didn't write him not to bother. I think most interested guys would have stepped up to say I had read his distance wrong, that he was still interested, but was trying to give me space. At this point, I would be fair in thinking he went MIA because he didn't get laid. I think HIS reaction was extreme and out of line and that HE misread me entirely. And I still think you are misreading what happened between us. Not wanting to screw was not a big deal. We had no drama over it, and continued to cuddle and talk.

 

But bottom line, if what you say is true, and this is exactly what he was thinking and feeling, then I think he should have contacted me at ANY point to say this. The first text offered options of why I havent heard from him - he could have refutted it easily. To continue to ignore me just shows me that his interest wasn't that great to begin with.

 

And I think slowing down the sex was appropriate, doesn't mean everything else in the relationship had to CEASE. There is a difference between slowing, and completely dismissing.

 

I find your insight as a male interesting, but as a woman, it was the wrong call...

[oppath]

That's fine. I think TBF has the best and most reasonable advice.

[Trialbyfire]

Not another member who thinks I'm a guy.

[nicki]

I agree with Oppath. Reread his posts. They make a lot of sense.

 

You are understandably upset about this situation. I've been there/done that and most guys WILL back off and wait for you to give THEM the signal that you want to continue forward and at what speed.

 

I get the sense that he was very confused by your text and thought you had written him off. No guy is going to continue to pursue if his ego is in the basement and he thinks you are done with him.

 

Now, he could have called, but he doesn't really know you yet. He might have been doing what he thought you wanted him to do -- give you space. Or he might have been doing what he would have wanted you to do if the situation was reversed.

 

Anyway, any time I've told a guy that I wanted to slow down, they have always backed off and let me take the reins for a while. Once you say that, then it's up to you to make the next move.

 

Don't beat yourself up too much. We all learn. I understand why you felt insecure, I would have, too.

 

Just next time, don't jump to conclusions. Take a deep breath and assume the best. Then ask questions, like "Hey, what's up? I haven't talked to you in a few days." I bet he would have said "I didn't know what to do. I wanted to give you space." Then you could have had a discusssion about it.

 

And, if you don't want to be too sexual too early, then don't put yourself in that situation until you are ready for the consequences. That means not being alone in an apartment for more than one minute. No going into the bedroom. No nightcap. Keep it public where you will get arrested if you get naked.

 

When you want to have sex, then have it unapologetically. If you do it for yourself, when you are ready, then you won't feel too insecure after. You'll feel more like "Dam*, that was incredible. Let's do it again."

 

For me, I always let a guy know upfront that I only have sex in the context of an exclusive relationship. That way he knows that when and if we get intimate, we are only seeing each other.

 

I don't know if any of this helps. Just want to let you know that it's okay, whatever happens with this guy.

 

If it were me, I'd drop by and see him. Smile, hold up a couple of football tickets and say "Can I make it up to you?"

 

Don't sweat it too much, though, whatever you decide to do. We've all been there.

[Jilly Bean]

Oh, I got that Trial was female - the response was to Oppath. Who is male, correct?

 

Trial - I hadn't read your response yet. Thanks...

 

It was only awkward to not contact me because he knew I was worried that fooling around too soon would ruin things. By not contacting me as he usually would, it just fueled my fears that it was a bad idea and made me think he was done with me/us.

 

We are currently engaging in a text message rally. It just began, and so far, his only comment was that he didn't appreciate someone telling him what he is thinking at all.

 

sigh.

[oppath]

Not another member who thinks I'm a guy.

 

If you are a guy, I'm switching teams.

 

Jilly Bean, I do want to assert, because I don't think I did, that I completely understand how you feel and that it would be natural to feel disappointed. Certainly, whenever someone acts different or inconsistent, it pays off to be observant. It's just that there are any number of things that could have been going on in his head, and you assumed it was the worst case scenario, and you basically said "obviously this is over." I'd feel really rejected as a guy in that situation. How you feel is valid, but so is how he feels. Everything went fast, not just the sex. Talking to a guy every day that you met online after only a week is pretty fast. There is a good chance he was just slowing things down.

[Trialbyfire]

Oh, I got that Trial was female - the response was to Oppath. Who is male, correct?

 

Trial - I hadn't read your response yet. Thanks...

 

It was only awkward to not contact me because he knew I was worried that fooling around too soon would ruin things. By not contacting me as he usually would, it just fueled my fears that it was a bad idea and made me think he was done with me/us.

 

We are currently engaging in a text message rally. It just began, and so far, his only comment was that he didn't appreciate someone telling him what he is thinking at all.

 

sigh.

Jilly Bean, this is your chance. Apologize. Do it now, if you want to salvage this.

 

oppath, you're such a sweetie. I put up my pic so there's hopefully no more chances for confusion.

[nicki]

TBF is a hot WOMAN who goes right to the crux of any problem!

[Trialbyfire]

More like scary direct nicki. Thanks.

[Jilly Bean]

Well, Trial, I responded before I saw your suggestion to apologize. I did already respond:

 

Well, I I don't appreciate someone I have feelings for no longer contacting me after he knew i was worried fooling around would ruin things. it only fueled my fears. i wanted to wait because I thought it would be special with you.

 

I am sure he is processing that...

[oppath]

Well, Trial, I responded before I saw your suggestion to apologize. I did already respond:

 

Well, I I don't appreciate someone I have feelings for no longer contacting me after he knew i was worried fooling around would ruin things. it only fueled my fears. i wanted to wait because I thought it would be special with you.

 

I am sure he is processing that...

 

I'd be freaked that you claim to have feelings after only 2 dates. I apologize if I'm too blunt on that. I do understand how his behavior would hurt your feelings, but you don't even know this guy, and things were going fast outside of the bedroom too.

 

Have you been used for sex in your past relationships? Do you have a history of guys doing an about face suddenly out of the blue?

[Jilly Bean]

I gotta tell ya, Oppath, you're still off the mark here.

 

I wouldn't get into bed with someone at all that I didn't have some type of feelings for. I don't believe I said I loved him, I said I had feelings. I don't know why you process things so harshly - lol. Two dates, two weeks, and about 20 hours of phone calls - yeah, we both were developing feelings. If that would freak you out, then perhaps you engage in more antiseptic relationships than I do.

 

And you are the only one who seems to feel that things were moving too fast out of the bedroom. That pace was perfectly fine for both of us, and your comment is purely your judgment, but it is also not applicable to us. We were both enjoying the frequent contact, and if it hadn't of been for the holiday, we would have seen each other sooner than the weekend. That was not a problem.