sally4sara Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 But why are you so sure that I would be better off not pursuing this opportunity of happiness? Maybe you would be. All I'm saying is make him earn you. Make him learn you are not so easily won. Tell him if he wants to see and know more of you, it comes at a price. And the price is a clear beginning. Don't be common; don't just be his because one day he looked at you in interest. If you don't make him work for it, he won't ever see you as a big accomplishment he stands to lose if he one day sees some other girl that looks interesting.
Racquel Colette Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 You realize they are OW right? Of course they see your side. If your are comfortable being nothing more than the scratch to the 7 year itch, go for it. I would like to think better of you, but I can't if you won't. I am not an OW and never have been. I've never had to resort to that. My point is that he isn't married or engaged. Therefore, he is single. I believe it is up to him to pursue though, and I did advise not sleeping with him until he has completely broken up with his current "girlfriend" and is no longer living in the same house as said "girlfriend."
Trialbyfire Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 OP, don't poach. I would hope that you respect yourself and other people more than this. Also, don't see more into a bit of light-hearted flirting. A lot of men and women do this, even though they have no intent. Let's pretend he's flirting with intent. There are two actions he could take: Leave his g/f and bridge to you. Want a guy who's willing to do this to someone else? How will you trust him to stay with you?Cheat with you. Want a guy who's willing to do this to someone else? How will you trust him to remain faithful to you?
sally4sara Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I am not an OW and never have been. I've never had to resort to that. My point is that he isn't married or engaged. Therefore, he is single. I believe it is up to him to pursue though, and I did advise not sleeping with him until he has completely broken up with his current "girlfriend" and is no longer living in the same house as said "girlfriend." Still don't agree with you, but sorry for calling you OW. My bf has recently referred to himself as my husband in future tense and showed me a place he'd like to go on "honeymoon". We may at some point take personal vows, but decline the license. Our lack of want for that piece of paper doesn't mean We are single. We are solidly invested in each other and using the "no ring on my finger" excuse to betray each other doesn't fly.
sally4sara Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I am not an OW and never have been. I've never had to resort to that. Take note OP, that she is giving you advise she's never had to resort to.
nicki Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 Good, solid advice from Sally4Sara. You would be wise to listen to her. A woman has got to have her standards. It's that simple. What are your values and standards? Like the other poster, I call it "poaching." It's stealing someone who isn't yours. If I have a boyfriend, my rule is that is if he can be stolen away, then I don't want him anymore. And I don't poach/man hunt on another woman's territory. I consider a man another woman's territory when she is sleeping with him. I'd call that a boyfriend, wouldn't you? This guy probably wants a fling. Don't make it a romantic, the perfect one for me, thing. You REALLY do deserve better. He will take advantage of you if you let him. Don't let him. Have some standards. Tell him that you like him and would be interested in dating him if he ever breaks up with his current girlfriend, and that you don't want to interfere with anyone's relationship. That will send a signal that you are someone special and worth of being the "only woman," as another poster put it so well. Please don't stay so mad with the people who are responding to you like they would to a good girlfriend. They are trying to help you. Please consider their advice and perspective. It might save you a lot of heart ache.
Trialbyfire Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I agree about the unpoachable b/f. A guy that's poachable is either an unhappy guy, who will use you for the rebound and never address his issues, or a ladder guy, who perceives you as an upgrade. In the latter situation, there will always be someone who he can graduate to, once he's blown his way through you, thus doesn't value you, anymore.
gonetildecember Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I agree with TB4, S4S and Nicki. Other than the fact that he could just be FLIRTING without any other intention, what does the fact that you are willing to pursue things say about your character? You said before that if it were your mom or sis, you wouldn't really like the situation. If he were with you and down the line did this to you, how would you feel. In response to Racquel Colette... I still don't see not being married meaning single. Relationships and commitment count for nothing? Why stop at marriage then, they can always get a divorce if someone better comes along then right? I'm really interested ot know what kind of signs/signals he's given you. You sure he just isn't flirty? And you keep saying you want to talk and get to know him better...once again, isn't that dating? And you would be cool dating him before he ended things with his girlfriend?
Lizzie60 Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I agree with TB4, S4S and Nicki. Other than the fact that he could just be FLIRTING without any other intention, what does the fact that you are willing to pursue things say about your character? You said before that if it were your mom or sis, you wouldn't really like the situation. If he were with you and down the line did this to you, how would you feel. In response to Racquel Colette... I still don't see not being married meaning single. Relationships and commitment count for nothing? Why stop at marriage then, they can always get a divorce if someone better comes along then right? I'm really interested ot know what kind of signs/signals he's given you. You sure he just isn't flirty? And you keep saying you want to talk and get to know him better...once again, isn't that dating? And you would be cool dating him before he ended things with his girlfriend? From what I read so far.. I think he is more than just flirting with her.. she knows for a fact that he likes her a lot... but he's just too shy. It doesn't say anything about her character... Of course with a sister or a friend it's different... I don't mind seeing MMs but NOT my friends' H or any H in my family.... I don't think this girl is a family member or even a friend of pnm... so ... he's available... so I say go for it pnm!!!
Trialbyfire Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 While everyone wants to believe they're at the top of the foodchain, in reality, there will always be someone higher, who might or might not have sufficient integrity to not poach. Once again, do you want a guy who values you or one who will eventually devalue you?
Racquel Colette Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 Let's pretend he's flirting with intent. There are two actions he could take: Leave his g/f and bridge to you. Want a guy who's willing to do this to someone else? How will you trust him to stay with you?Cheat with you. Want a guy who's willing to do this to someone else? How will you trust him to remain faithful to you? As far as the first option, what is wrong with that? Relationships end. You're saying that a person who is unhappy and unfulfilled in a relationship should stay with that person just so they don't hurt that person. If he feels that the OP is "the one," what is wrong with that? If he doesn't propose in a year, then the OP could move on because she would know she is getting the same man who doesn't love her enough to marry her. People leave people and break up with them, it's not a matter of trust, it's life that not all relationships end in marriage and are just part of life's path. You can never trust someone NOT to leave you because they might fall out of love with you at some point. There is no way to guarantee this. You might get a guy who will stay with you just to make you happy so you don't go psycho on him, but do you really want that? The second one...well, I already said not to sleep with him until he broke up with his "girlfriend."
Racquel Colette Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 Still don't agree with you, but sorry for calling you OW. My bf has recently referred to himself as my husband in future tense and showed me a place he'd like to go on "honeymoon". We may at some point take personal vows, but decline the license. Our lack of want for that piece of paper doesn't mean We are single. We are solidly invested in each other and using the "no ring on my finger" excuse to betray each other doesn't fly. What a good deal for him, though. He has not fully committed to you, not really. He can get out as he likes without contacting a lawyer should he fall out of love. He is not willing to go the full nine yards and risk having to divorce (which is not that big of a deal really, but he is not even willing to risk THAT.)
Trialbyfire Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 As far as the first option, what is wrong with that? Relationships end. You're saying that a person who is unhappy and unfulfilled in a relationship should stay with that person just so they don't hurt that person. If he feels that the OP is "the one," what is wrong with that? If he doesn't propose in a year, then the OP could move on because she would know she is getting the same man who doesn't love her enough to marry her. People leave people and break up with them, it's not a matter of trust, it's life that not all relationships end in marriage and are just part of life's path. You can never trust someone NOT to leave you because they might fall out of love with you at some point. There is no way to guarantee this. You might get a guy who will stay with you just to make you happy so you don't go psycho on him, but do you really want that? The second one...well, I already said not to sleep with him until he broke up with his "girlfriend." I don't know about you but I kind of like a guy who can address issues first before bridging off to someone else. I've grown quite fond of mature men who are capable of communicating, compromising and giving way sometimes. The last thing I want is a little boy who runs and hides.
Jilly Bean Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I think you should examine your own self-esteem issues, and why you would even entertain the thought of breaking up someone elses relationship and why you need this validation and attention from a man who is taken. Not to sound harsh, but women who engage in these situations tend to not feel like they are worthy of a healthier love. I mean, I get hit on a LOT. And sometimes by married, engaged, living with, or otherwise involved men. Thing is, instantly I am turned off by someone that would behave like this and disrespect their partner. I find it disgusting... Always remember, the way they come to you, is that way they go out on you. So, even if you did break up their 7 year relationship, don't think for a second that he wouldn't be looking for someone else while he was with you.
sally4sara Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 What a good deal for him, though. He has not fully committed to you, not really. He can get out as he likes without contacting a lawyer should he fall out of love. He is not willing to go the full nine yards and risk having to divorce (which is not that big of a deal really, but he is not even willing to risk THAT.) Look, its a two way thing here and personally, I think he is going to want vows before I do. Our stance on that piece of paper isn't commitphobia, its a political protest. Till anyone who wants to marry can do so, we won't place importance on that piece of paper. I think you just won't hear what I'm saying because you labor under the delusion that all women want that piece of paper and all men run from it. I was married once and that piece of paper didn't make it work. If anything, I'm the one with issues about marriage. My BF has never been married and drops more hints about it down the road. But my issues about it does not mean I'm not committed to him.
Leia Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I think you should examine your own self-esteem issues, and why you would even entertain the thought of breaking up someone elses relationship and why you need this validation and attention from a man who is taken. Not to sound harsh, but women who engage in these situations tend to not feel like they are worthy of a healthier love. I mean, I get hit on a LOT. And sometimes by married, engaged, living with, or otherwise involved men. Thing is, instantly I am turned off by someone that would behave like this and disrespect their partner. I find it disgusting... Always remember, the way they come to you, is that way they go out on you. So, even if you did break up their 7 year relationship, don't think for a second that he wouldn't be looking for someone else while he was with you. LOL - You sound like me in the sense that you get hit on by married/ engaged/attached men. I tend to find out when I am already deep but once I found out, I'd get the hell out!!
sally4sara Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 Oh, and it IS a good deal for him; I rock and I don't need a piece of paper to not cheat on him.
sally4sara Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 From what I read so far.. I think he is more than just flirting with her.. she knows for a fact that he likes her a lot... but he's just too shy. It doesn't say anything about her character... Of course with a sister or a friend it's different... I don't mind seeing MMs but NOT my friends' H or any H in my family.... I don't think this girl is a family member or even a friend of pnm... so ... he's available... so I say go for it pnm!!! OP, Lizzie has 4 MM on hook unless something has changed in the last day or so. It works for her and if she is happy then so be it. If his interest in you means he is unhappy in his life, what does her interest in all of her guys say about her life?
Lizzie60 Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 OP, Lizzie has 4 MM on hook unless something has changed in the last day or so. It works for her and if she is happy then so be it. If his interest in you means he is unhappy in his life, what does her interest in all of her guys say about her life? I will remind you that I don't have anyone in my life full time, I am single...and very happy with my lifestyle.. so his life does not apply to mine. It's the opposite really.
sally4sara Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I will remind you that I don't have anyone in my life full time, I am single...and very happy with my lifestyle.. so his life does not apply to mine. It's the opposite really. I see it the same. If any one of them fully satisfied you, then would you continue as you are? If it is sound logic to the op that someone wouldn't be making eyes at her if they were happy in their relationship, then why would she think you live the way you do because it makes you happy with any one of the people you see? She is on here because she thinks her and this guy have a shot. And maybe they do, but unless she is comfortable with him doing this to her later she should see if he can earn a place in her life. You might be fine with a guy merely looking at you to win a place in your life, but it doesn't seem to be enough for you to cool your heels for them. I'll check in tomorrow; I'm off to curl up with my bf and son to watch a movie.
Lizzie60 Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I see it the same. If any one of them fully satisfied you, then would you continue as you are? If it is sound logic to the op that someone wouldn't be making eyes at her if they were happy in their relationship, then why would she think you live the way you do because it makes you happy with any one of the people you see? She is on here because she thinks her and this guy have a shot. And maybe they do, but unless she is comfortable with him doing this to her later she should see if he can earn a place in her life. You might be fine with a guy merely looking at you to win a place in your life, but it doesn't seem to be enough for you to cool your heels for them. No, I bet he's not that happy in his relationship right now if he's making eyes at someone else... She thinks they have a shot.. maybe she's right... maybe she gets a vibe that it could work.. why not? Is this guy a prisoner of his relationship... I don't think so... who are we to say it won't work with her?
gonetildecember Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I don't know about you but I kind of like a guy who can address issues first before bridging off to someone else. I've grown quite fond of mature men who are capable of communicating, compromising and giving way sometimes. The last thing I want is a little boy who runs and hides. My point exactly. As much as you claim he likes you...don't you think it would be better if he WAS NOT with someone else. It just makes it seem as if you might be disposable as well.
gonetildecember Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 No, I bet he's not that happy in his relationship right now if he's making eyes at someone else... She thinks they have a shot.. maybe she's right... maybe she gets a vibe that it could work.. why not? Is this guy a prisoner of his relationship... I don't think so... who are we to say it won't work with her? I've asked before but haven't gotten an answer. How does she know he'sso into her? What kinda signs? If in three years it hasn't progressed..who says he's serious? And who are we to speculate on whether or not he is happy in his relationship. OP has he ever discussed it with you at all? Or do you have clear signs he's not happy with her?
Racquel Colette Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 Oh, and it IS a good deal for him; I rock and I don't need a piece of paper to not cheat on him. Well, it takes more for than not cheating to rock. That is your own personal opinion of yourself. It still is a very good thing for both of you as long as there are no children involved. He can bail out very easily when necessary.
Leia Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I've asked before but haven't gotten an answer. How does she know he'sso into her? What kinda signs? If in three years it hasn't progressed..who says he's serious? And who are we to speculate on whether or not he is happy in his relationship. OP has he ever discussed it with you at all? Or do you have clear signs he's not happy with her? She hasn't replied... could be she has no answer? I would like to know if she talked to her friends about this 'crush'. I wonder what they have to say. I just think this whole thing is wrong...
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