complicatedlife Posted November 23, 2007 Posted November 23, 2007 I had decided to take a little break from posting here so that I could hear my own voice in my situation. Sometimes that's needed; at this time, I think I could use a little help and suggestion, so here I am once again I was doing really well, my "friend" is still separated but hasn't moved back home as yet. We've been talking still, but not as intense as when we were dating. Which translates to one phone call every other day and less than 5 emails per day! Earlier this week, I slipped up and agreed to see him - we had a really nice time, and I stayed with him for 3 days. During this time, I asked him what was going on with him and his marriage and he says that he doesn't really know but he and his wife are trying to see if they can try to make it work. Then he goes on and tells me how he has realized how different and incompatible in fundamental ways they are, that he is not sure that the differences will at this stage in their lives cause them to get divorced because they have both changed over the years. But that even with these revelations, he feels he owes it to his family to try - yet he cannot deny that our friendship and former relationship is is fulfilling for him. I told him that if he is truly commited to doing what he says, we HAVE TO go NC, he cannot talk with me anymore, and I need it, too, so I can move on emotionally, because I am still feeling hopeful; I know that he loves me, of course I love him, but he needs to do what is necessary to help himself, and the same for me. He refuses. And it is hard for me to do this if he is not going to assist in it! Would I still be with him? Absolutely - IF he gets a divorce, no more separation business, I don't care how legal it is. Has anyone been through this? What did you do? Thank you in advance, all
GreenEyedLady Posted November 23, 2007 Posted November 23, 2007 During this time, I asked him what was going on with him and his marriage and he says that he doesn't really know but he and his wife are trying to see if they can try to make it work. What I bolded is all you need to know... Do not talk to him or respond in any way to him... If he is wanting to work it out, you need to stay away...He's not going to change anything and you deserve someone who wants to make it work with you... Until he's willing to do that, you should not have any contact with him...If he is unhappy in the M, he will eventually get out...But he seems happy with you both, at the current time... Go for what you want and need, not what someone else wants and needs... (((HUGS))) GEL
whichwayisup Posted November 23, 2007 Posted November 23, 2007 It's impossible for him to fix his marriage with you still in the picture, all that does is lead you on and for him, he still gets to have his cake and eat it too - Having his wife and you fulfilling all his needs. Obviously he still gets some need filled from you if he wants to stay intouch as friends. GEL is right, go NC - But do the NC for yourself, not for him.
sapphire0903 Posted November 23, 2007 Posted November 23, 2007 I was in the same situation, he was separated, loved me, had a relationship going with me and wanted to continue while he was "working things out" with his wife. It may have been what he wanted, but NOT what I wanted for myself or needed. I deserved more than being a mistress. It was not what I signed up for when I began dating him. Go NC for your own peace.
Author complicatedlife Posted November 24, 2007 Author Posted November 24, 2007 I know I need to do that, but it is very, very difficult and I am trying to find my way there. This is not only someone I dated, but also someone that I was very close platonic friends with for many months before any romance came into the picture. If it were not that way, I think it would be much easier.
PoshPrincess Posted November 24, 2007 Posted November 24, 2007 CL, I agree with the others. You have to go NC - FOR YOURSELF! Your MM is being very unfair on you by telling you one thing and doing another. If he really wants to make his marriage work then why is he seeing you? He IS having his cake and eating it and all the time he has the best of both worlds nothing will change so YOU need to make the decision for him. I really feel for you and this must be SO tough but you need to cut him out of your life for your own sanity. Remember the saying "if you love someone set them free....." and all that? He may come back to you, he may not, but in the meantime try to get on with your life without him in it.
frannie Posted November 24, 2007 Posted November 24, 2007 I told him that if he is truly commited to doing what he says, we HAVE TO go NC, he cannot talk with me anymore, and I need it, too, so I can move on emotionally, because I am still feeling hopeful. He refuses. Hmm. So you told him what you need, and he 'refuses'..? What does he mean, he refuses..? He lies there telling you he and his W are giving it one more shot, but that he 'refuses' to let you have your shot at happiness without him? OK.
Author complicatedlife Posted November 24, 2007 Author Posted November 24, 2007 Hmm. So you told him what you need, and he 'refuses'..? What does he mean, he refuses..? He lies there telling you he and his W are giving it one more shot, but that he 'refuses' to let you have your shot at happiness without him? OK. He doesn't SAY, "I refuse", he says "I can't do that and I don't want to."
frannie Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 He doesn't SAY, "I refuse", he says "I can't do that and I don't want to." So he lies there telling you he and his W are giving it one more shot, but that he can't and won't let you have your shot at happiness without him? That sounds very selfish to me.
ICallsEmAsISeesEm Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 That sounds very selfish to me.LOL...ya think? Gotta have that double-layer cake, even when he claims he owes it to his family to 'try to make things work.' What a noble picture he presents - laying in bed with his other woman while he claims he owes it to his family to try to make it work. How did you manage not to puke on such a hypocrite?
frannie Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 LOL...ya think? Gotta have that double-layer cake, even when he claims he owes it to his family to 'try to make things work.' What a noble picture he presents - laying in bed with his other woman while he claims he owes it to his family to try to make it work. How did you manage not to puke on such a hypocrite? I think that "I can't and I won't let you go" can sound terribly romantic, and in the right circumstances even can be. However, I don't think this is one of those circumstances, obviously. The only time someone gets to say, "I can't and I won't let you go" and it's not completely self-serving is if the OP wants them, and they have everything to offer themselves. In this case the MM is saying, he can't/won't let CL go, while he wonders and cogitates and decides whether or not his first option works out. In the meantime, he's not of a mind to 'let her' walk away and do the same for herself. What happens if his marriage works out..? Suddenly he can and will let her go now, as she's not wanted any longer as a back-up plan..? And besides all that, no one can work on their marriage while they're spending three days with another woman.
Author complicatedlife Posted November 27, 2007 Author Posted November 27, 2007 So he lies there telling you he and his W are giving it one more shot, but that he can't and won't let you have your shot at happiness without him? That sounds very selfish to me. I agree. However, he does acknowledge that he knows it's selfish.
Author complicatedlife Posted November 27, 2007 Author Posted November 27, 2007 I think that "I can't and I won't let you go" can sound terribly romantic, and in the right circumstances even can be. However, I don't think this is one of those circumstances, obviously. The only time someone gets to say, "I can't and I won't let you go" and it's not completely self-serving is if the OP wants them, and they have everything to offer themselves. In this case the MM is saying, he can't/won't let CL go, while he wonders and cogitates and decides whether or not his first option works out. In the meantime, he's not of a mind to 'let her' walk away and do the same for herself. What happens if his marriage works out..? Suddenly he can and will let her go now, as she's not wanted any longer as a back-up plan..? And besides all that, no one can work on their marriage while they're spending three days with another woman. I asked him all of these things. He says as long as she is not fully committed, he doesn't have to be. What can I possibly say to that? He says even if they do work things out, he has to be honest and acknowledge that he cannot, even at that point, relinquish what we share.Then he tells me he loves her because she is the mother of his children and he is trying to learn how to love her romantically again..see? These things make me feel hopeful - especially the fact that he has not gone back yet. I want to go, but yet, I want to stay when I hear these things.
NoIDidn't Posted November 27, 2007 Posted November 27, 2007 Well, acknowledge something else. What he is really saying whether he knows it or not. You say you need total NC for your own sake and so that he can really make a go at his M fairly. You say he refuses or says "He can't and he won't" do that. What he is saying is that he needs you there because he can't do anything on his own. He needs the emotional crutch that you provide. He isn't saying that he will be with you. He is saying that he will be with his W, and YOU will be with HIM - there keeping him sane. Nothing offered for you because he can't and won't be able to do that for you - if for no other reason than for his kids and family. He wants you around because it helps him fill fulfilled. He's already said so. But not fulfilled enough to completely walk away from the life he had with his W and kids. Selfish doesn't begin to touch on his words. Galling is more like it. Hope this helps.
frannie Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 I asked him all of these things. He says as long as she is not fully committed, he doesn't have to be. What can I possibly say to that? He says even if they do work things out, he has to be honest and acknowledge that he cannot, even at that point, relinquish what we share.Then he tells me he loves her because she is the mother of his children and he is trying to learn how to love her romantically again..see? These things make me feel hopeful - especially the fact that he has not gone back yet. I want to go, but yet, I want to stay when I hear these things. I'm honestly not trying to be negative here, but I just can't see what you see is hopeful here? He tells you he is trying to get to love her again romantically, and that if he does that, he would not be expecting to let you go? He actually tells you that to your face? Where is the positive in this again..?
Author complicatedlife Posted November 28, 2007 Author Posted November 28, 2007 I'm honestly not trying to be negative here, but I just can't see what you see is hopeful here? He tells you he is trying to get to love her again romantically, and that if he does that, he would not be expecting to let you go? He actually tells you that to your face? Where is the positive in this again..? The positive - well, to me, of course, is that he says he is trying but it is not working - the counseling isn't working, and neither is his attempt at changing his feelings. He says that he thinks they waited too long to get help and is waiting until the end of the year (not sure for what and I don't push for answers). So of course I hear that, and then I see that he is struggling to move back home - she has been asking him everyday to come back for a few weeks now and it was something HE wanted to do- but he has not done it. And he continues to do things for me that he did when we were dating that he should not do in his reconciliation attempt. I don't ask - he just does. So these things make me hopeful. Or am I just being delusional?
frannie Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 The positive - well, to me, of course, is that he says he is trying but it is not working - the counseling isn't working, and neither is his attempt at changing his feelings. He says that he thinks they waited too long to get help and is waiting until the end of the year (not sure for what and I don't push for answers). So of course I hear that, and then I see that he is struggling to move back home - she has been asking him everyday to come back for a few weeks now and it was something HE wanted to do- but he has not done it. And he continues to do things for me that he did when we were dating that he should not do in his reconciliation attempt. I don't ask - he just does. So these things make me hopeful. Or am I just being delusional? Oh OK. Now I see a better picture, if I can avoid the fact of his selfish holding on to you (taking me a while to get past that, I have to admit!) So he's moved out, and she wants him to move back, but he isn't. Because the counselling isn't working. And you see that he's not moving back, and not being romantically in love with her means that there is hope for you and he as a couple? OK, now to the negative. He's not working on his marriage, and to me, if anything is going to 'work' there, he would have to give that his full commitment. Otherwise he can go on saying for x years that he hasn't given it his full shot. The question is... is he trying to make a decision..? What happens at the end of the year? Why not push him for some answers, given that your life and your future is involved? The more you don't ask, the longer he can go on being vague and keeping everyone in the dark, stringing everyone along. You need to know whether he's going to stay out, and get a divorce, yes..? Limboland must look pretty attractive for him, however. He has his W on one side asking, begging (?) him to come home. And he has you prepared to see him and allow him to say oh, you know, even if things work out with W I'll still want you in my life. The man isn't going to change if no one insists he does. All I foresee is more of the same, for both women in his life...
Author complicatedlife Posted November 28, 2007 Author Posted November 28, 2007 Oh OK. Now I see a better picture, if I can avoid the fact of his selfish holding on to you (taking me a while to get past that, I have to admit!) But aren't I being selfish holding on, too? So he's moved out, and she wants him to move back, but he isn't. Because the counselling isn't working. Yes, exactly what he says. And you see that he's not moving back, and not being romantically in love with her means that there is hope for you and he as a couple? Yes. OK, now to the negative. He's not working on his marriage, and to me, if anything is going to 'work' there, he would have to give that his full commitment. You don't think the counseling is "somewhat" working on it? He is faithful to that. You need to know whether he's going to stay out, and get a divorce, yes..? Yes. I will ask him these things. Limboland must look pretty attractive for him, however. He has his W on one side asking, begging (?) him to come home. True. And he has you prepared to see him and allow him to say oh, you know, even if things work out with W I'll still want you in my life. Well...I told him I can't do that. Right now, at this moment, it is hard to follow through on that - sometimes I say yes, sometimes I say no. The man isn't going to change if no one insists he does. All I foresee is more of the same, for both women in his life...I suppose this is where NC is supposed to come in on my part....
frannie Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Oh OK. Now I see a better picture, if I can avoid the fact of his selfish holding on to you (taking me a while to get past that, I have to admit!) But aren't I being selfish holding on, too? So he's moved out, and she wants him to move back, but he isn't. Because the counselling isn't working. Yes, exactly what he says. And you see that he's not moving back, and not being romantically in love with her means that there is hope for you and he as a couple? Yes. OK, now to the negative. He's not working on his marriage, and to me, if anything is going to 'work' there, he would have to give that his full commitment. You don't think the counseling is "somewhat" working on it? He is faithful to that. You need to know whether he's going to stay out, and get a divorce, yes..? Yes. I will ask him these things. Limboland must look pretty attractive for him, however. He has his W on one side asking, begging (?) him to come home. True. And he has you prepared to see him and allow him to say oh, you know, even if things work out with W I'll still want you in my life. Well...I told him I can't do that. Right now, at this moment, it is hard to follow through on that - sometimes I say yes, sometimes I say no. The man isn't going to change if no one insists he does. All I foresee is more of the same, for both women in his life...I suppose this is where NC is supposed to come in on my part.... No, I don't think you're being selfish, not in the same way. Selfish is saying to someone hey, I'm possibly getting back with my wife, but whether I do or don't I won't let you go. No, I don't think that going to counselling on his marriage at the same time as seeing someone else, and telling her he intends for her to be there for him on the side even if his marriage 'works out' is in any way working on the marriage. No. Do you? Yes, I think NC or at least LC, and letting him know that he can't get away with expecting you to be there for him even if he 'works it out' with his W, is the way to go. But that's where you were in your first post I'm not really sure why you're not doing that, however..? You say you're confused by his words, but I don't think I've ever seen a MM say things so clearly... ... or maybe I am a stuck record on this..?
Author complicatedlife Posted November 28, 2007 Author Posted November 28, 2007 No, I don't think you're being selfish, not in the same way. Selfish is saying to someone hey, I'm possibly getting back with my wife, but whether I do or don't I won't let you go. Agree No, I don't think that going to counselling on his marriage at the same time as seeing someone else, and telling her he intends for her to be there for him on the side even if his marriage 'works out' is in any way working on the marriage. No. Do you? I have mixed feelings about this. Seeing me is not giving 100%, but he goes to his sessions faithfully. Yes, I think NC or at least LC, and letting him know that he can't get away with expecting you to be there for him even if he 'works it out' with his W, is the way to go. But that's where you were in your first post True. I've been actually NC as opposed to LC (which is what I want to be) for 2 days (though I just called to ask him something - to follow). 2 days may seem like nothing, but it's something to me when I am used to talking with him everyday, several times per day. I'm not really sure why you're not doing that, however..? You say you're confused by his words, but I don't think I've ever seen a MM say things so clearly...I am trying to do LC. I just asked him what his plan is. He says he's giving it a 6 month try - the deadline is March. If their attempts are at the same stage as today, they will get a divorce. They both are in agreement with this.
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