Refrain from sex?

[cranium]

I started a thread on the Sex board a few months ago. Here’s a recap:

 

Like many couples, our libidos aren’t exactly the same. She’s content with once a week or less, while I could be sexual daily. So, I’ve learned to get by with once a week or less.

 

The scenario is always the same, though. Same lighting, same location, you name it. We’ve had numerous conversations, completed sexual fulfillment questionnaires, read books; still no change. I do the majority of giving and she does the receiving. Normally foreplay is focused on her followed by intercourse when she decides the timing is right.

 

After we started a family, our standard form of birth control became condoms. I don’t mind them all the time, but do find them extremely restraining and have had difficulty lately reaching climax. I don’t think it is necessary for me to get off every time, but sometimes would be nice. Especially since our activities are limited to once a week. If I haven’t reached climax by the time she has, I am out of luck. She might go a few minutes longer, but she isn’t really interested in helping me get there. No alternatives to intercourse either. No hands, no oral for me, no blindfolds, no anal. It’s like a race to orgasm and I always lose. Then I get to wait a week to lose again.

 

Her answer is for me to get a vasectomy. While that might solve our condom issue, I don’t know how a vasectomy will result in greater frequency, improved sexual intimacy or more diversity.

 

Any suggestions on how to improve our give and take? I’m becoming frustrated to the point of not wanting to be sexual because of this imbalance.

 

So, now I feel I’ve reached that point. I can’t find the exact quote, but I believe it was Curmudgeon who said something like this –

 

‘Where, how and if I get "finished" is far less important than knowing that my partner, in my case my wife, wants to bring me pleasure. Given that, "going fast" is not a need or consideration and I'd much prefer an experience that isn't uncomfortable for either of us and is mutually satisfying for as long as it lasts.’

 

My wife is comfortable receiving both sexual and non-sexual physical touch, but seems only able to give non-sexual touch (hugs, quick little kisses). It’s difficult to explain, but her actions when we are physical, really have nothing to do with wanting to bring me pleasure. Needless to say, I’m not satisfied.

 

I’m considering telling her I want to take a break from being sexual at all. I’m just sooo tired of having the same conversation and seeing no change. If we agree to not be sexual, then I won’t have expectations to go unmet and maybe I won’t harbor so much resentment. I don’t know; something has to change.

[whichwayisup]

She isn't affectionate in the sense of intimacy, yet she is sexual and enjoys getting off, feeling good. That bond seems to not be there, part of 'sex' IS bringing joy and making your partner feel just as good.

 

I'm not sure if cutting off sex completely is the answer, but I do think you need to tell her exactly how what she does in bed (not allowing you to finish, or for her just to enjoy having you inside her and let you cum) makes you feel.

 

You could make an evening, set aside an hour or two, each week change it up - One week she gives you massages, backrubs, blowjobs, handjobs, sex, takes charge...Then the next week it's her turn to lay back and enjoy...

 

Problem is, if you two stop having sex, it will cause more headaches.

[cranium]

You could make an evening, set aside an hour or two, each week change it up - One week she gives you massages, backrubs, blowjobs, handjobs, sex, takes charge...Then the next week it's her turn to lay back and enjoy...

 

Problem is, if you two stop having sex, it will cause more headaches.

 

Thanks, whichway. The title of my thread on the Sex forum was Reciprocation.

 

I think she would be content being sexual once or twice a month, if that. So, by just showing up once a week instead, she feels she is giving back. Whether there is a balanced give and take doesn’t matter. I’ve suggested talking about it, asking for what we each want, taking time to go slowly and pleasure each other, trading roles, massage and other physical acts without being sexual, stretching our edges, showers, lingerie, etc…

 

This is part of the problem; she won't reciprocate in this manner. Each week would become every other week - meaning it would always be her turn. I'm worried about causing more headaches also, but this lack of sexuality is having it's toll on me.

[michaelk]

From your description, it sounds as if she doesn't really desire sex. She rarely wants to do it, and when she does she's interested only in getting it over with. It sucks being with someone who doesn't want you sexually. I sympathize. I mean, how much can you really enjoy sex when you feel like a charity case?

 

So you've suggested taking a more reciprocal approach. How forcefully did you express your unhappiness? What was her response? She needs to understand that an essential part of your relationship - part of the intimacy you two should share - is missing.

 

I don't think that stopping sex will solve anything, because you're just going to feel even more deprived and probably resentful, and it doesn't sound like she'd miss it much anyway.

 

You need to get her to understand how damaging this is to your relationship. You lack an essential intimacy (not just physical, but emotional) as demonstrated by her closed attitude toward a give and take approach to sex. So if she won't respond to your most strident attempts to open up a discussion, I think you have no choice but to go to counseling together. First off, the mere suggestion of it may spur her to take you seriously. And second, there's no better way to get communication flowing than to have a professional third party mediating the process for you. My wife and I did it, with great results. We stopped after a while, but by then we'd learned how to talk to each other without the counselor, and that alone was a boon to our relationship.

[blade123]

Cranium,

 

I know exactly where you are coming from. My situation has been very much the same for a large part of our 15 year marriage, but maybe not quite as bad as your case.

 

My wife very seldom initiates intimacy as she is often too tired, but lately I have attributed it to peri-menopause (check out the Power Surge forums), and I have noted that her mood swings with her cycle now more than ever.

 

I have also learned that I am too needy and insecure (always looking for reassurance from her) and I know that this type of behavior is a real turn-off for women. Some advice I can offer: don't let this kill your self-esteem, always remind yourself that this is her problem but not her fault or yours if you know what I mean. Don't take her lack of affection personally, just get on with your life, take care of yourself and your family, and don't let this get you down. I have been trying this approach for a few months now and I have noticed that she seems more interested in me, and even initiates affection every now and then when I least expect it.

 

Like you are thinking, I have gone through the cycle of trying not to initiate sex and eventually giving in when it has been too long, and it has gotten me nowhere. I would recommend that you don't stop being affectionate, just don't expect it to lead to sex. Continue to be supportive and be the best husband you can be.

 

I have not tried counseling, yet, but it might be a good idea.

 

We try to "get away" for weekend two or three times a year and we always have a great time and we re-bond. I have learned that quality is better than quantity.

 

Sorry if this response seems a little scattered but I hope it helps.

 

Hang in there and take care of yourself.

 

B

[tommyr]

I’m considering telling her I want to take a break from being sexual at all.

 

 

Take it from me - I have tried this approach and it does NOT work. Like you, I thought if I totally backed off from sex that my wife would notice it and show some greater interest. WRONG!!!!! It made things even worse because I was even more frustrated than ever and she was happier than ever (naturally low libido she can go months without sex).

 

The solution is to communicate with her, openly and honestly about what your needs are. A loving spouse will want to hear this and will make a sincere effort to meet their partner's (reasonable) needs.

 

My wife still has a low libido, but now that we both have a better understanding of the other's needs, we are having sex usually 2X per week. Oh, it took a year of hard work, several major fights, and 5 months of counseling to get to this point but it was all worth it!

[Lizzie60]

She is very selfish... IMO.. and I see, on a regular basis, men in your situation... that's my answer... get it outside the M... simple.

[Elyssa]

She is very selfish... IMO.. and I see, on a regular basis, men in your situation... that's my answer... get it outside the M... simple.

 

You're actually advising someone to begin an affair to fulfill their need for sex? How's that for selfish? An affair might give him sex now, but will destroy his marriage in the long run.

 

Cranium, your wife's behavior is very self-centered. I tend to think her original suggestion that you get a vasectomy because she knows it's not something you're likely to do and thus she doesn't have to change her behavior.

 

As for birth control, since you're having trouble obtaining orgasm while using condoms... there are many other things to try. For convenience, nothing beats the pill, in my opinion, but she seems to have very little desire to contribute to the resolution of this problem, so she might find an birth control shot more appealing. A quick shot, 3 months protection, less periods. The name of this shot is Depo-Provera. It's hardly any hassle for her since she doesn't have to remember to take the pill, and it would remove the need for condoms, thus increasing your sexual pleasure.

 

Seeing how this is a continued issue, I would recommend counseling, because there has to be a reason why she refuses to please you. You sound like a loving husband that tries to please her, so it's hard to say where her unwillingness to reciprocate would come from.

 

Let us know how things go!

 

-E

[Blue Eyed Brain]

It seems that your wife and you have a disconnect. TommyR is quite right in his suggestions. You need to talk. Somewhere she has lost her libido for herself and you. Do you know if she masturbates? If so, then the lost is for you and you both need to work that out.

 

I don't understand why women have a hanging libido. I have a very high sex drive - higher than most men. So, I give myself pleasure (never knock masturbation - it's sex with someone I love.......WA) and offer it to my partner. I, most of the time, initiate all the sex encounters. I don't mind at all. Haven't been rejected yet, (I guess that's why I don't mind).

 

I think it's getting out the frustration in your wife............remember:

 

Sex relieves tension and love causes it....

[shadowofman]

While I appriciate Lizzie60's suggestion for it bluntness;), if you only want sex from your wife, you need to talk about it with her.

I don't think witholding sex is going to solve anything. I have often thought about it (for other reasons;)), but I don't even think that I could do it cold turkey.

Listen to TommyR.

[Mr. Lucky]

I’m considering telling her I want to take a break from being sexual at all. I’m just sooo tired of having the same conversation and seeing no change. If we agree to not be sexual, then I won’t have expectations to go unmet and maybe I won’t harbor so much resentment. I don’t know; something has to change.

It sounds as though your real intention is to try and make her hurt as much as you do - payback of some kind. I speak from experience as, in my first marriage, I established the USA, Olympic and World record for sleeping on the couch and in the guest room. Guess what - I went from little sex to no sex and it didn't feel any better. Nor did it solve any problems.

 

Be careful what you wish for. In this case, I'm not sure you want it to come true...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Darth Vader]

I hope you're not thinking of cheating, if that's what above poster was meaning. A revenge affair, because your wife had one is not wise!

[Zona76]

Here's my take.

Sometimes I'm tired and sex is out of the question. But he knows what buttons to push or rub.

Do you know her buttons? It may begin with a gentle back rub.

What gets me every time is a gentle massage on my hmm hmm....LOL He knows that is my "switch"

Most guys want the woman to initiate. That's often hard for me even still. But I know he will bring a smile to my face.

 

Yes it's best to try and bring her to pleasure first. But an ultimate turn off for me is when my better half is NOT satisfied. I will sulk and assume I did something wrong. Try talking to her. Warm words of desire and how much you want to delve into her and take her to become ONE.

Words are a big thing for me.

 

But don't take to heart my answers as I am past menopausal. My hormones are not in the same range as hers. If she's not had a physical she can ask her GYN to suggest something. If at times there is dryness? Have a bottle of a light lube. My choice is KY (don't get the warming gel)

[cranium]

So you've suggested taking a more reciprocal approach. How forcefully did you express your unhappiness? What was her response? She needs to understand that an essential part of your relationship - part of the intimacy you two should share - is missing.

 

I don't think that stopping sex will solve anything, because you're just going to feel even more deprived and probably resentful, and it doesn't sound like she'd miss it much anyway.

 

You need to get her to understand how damaging this is to your relationship. You lack an essential intimacy (not just physical, but emotional) as demonstrated by her closed attitude toward a give and take approach to sex. So if she won't respond to your most strident attempts to open up a discussion, I think you have no choice but to go to counseling together.

 

 

Her response is it doesn’t matter what she does, I’ll never be satisfied. She says she has talked with other female friends and they agree sex once a week should be adequate.

 

While our frequency most definitely could be improved, I’m more interested in the quality of the shared experience. I agree that I don’t think she would miss it much. I guess I’m thinking I would feel less deprived and resentful because I wouldn’t have expectations.

 

 

Some advice I can offer: don't let this kill your self-esteem, always remind yourself that this is her problem but not her fault or yours if you know what I mean. Don't take her lack of affection personally, just get on with your life, take care of yourself and your family, and don't let this get you down.

 

Like you are thinking, I have gone through the cycle of trying not to initiate sex and eventually giving in when it has been too long, and it has gotten me nowhere. I would recommend that you don't stop being affectionate, just don't expect it to lead to sex. Continue to be supportive and be the best husband you can be.

 

I have not tried counseling, yet, but it might be a good idea.

 

Thanks, blade. It is her problem, but it is also our problem. I’m not planning to stop being affectionate; just take a break from being sexual. She now determines if, when and where we’ll have sex; then decides how and what will take place.

 

This is a quick read – Twelve Ways to Make Your Spouse Dislike Sex

http://mentodayonline.com/loveandsex/dislike.html

Okay, she doesn’t answer the phone during sex, but she nails 5 others.

 

Take it from me - I have tried this approach and it does NOT work. Like you, I thought if I totally backed off from sex that my wife would notice it and show some greater interest. WRONG!!!!! It made things even worse because I was even more frustrated than ever and she was happier than ever (naturally low libido she can go months without sex).

 

The solution is to communicate with her, openly and honestly about what your needs are. A loving spouse will want to hear this and will make a sincere effort to meet their partner's (reasonable) needs.

 

I’m not suggesting I back off in hopes she will show greater interest. I’m suggesting I take a break because I have communicated openly and honestly and she has not made any efforts, much less sincere ones. I’m suggesting I refrain because I don’t want to be sexual if there is going to be no change. Like your wife, mine would probably be happier than ever.

 

I'll talk to her about counseling again. We were in MC before and she quit going when we ventured into discussing sexual aspects of our relationship.

[whichwayisup]

She says she has talked with other female friends and they agree sex once a week should be adequate.

 

This is nuts! Just because once a week works well for one of her friends in her marriage, doesn't mean that's enough for you. I mean, maybe it would be enough for you if your wife was actually passionate and into you in everyway WHILE having sex that one day a week.

 

Counselling is a good idea.

[cranium]

This is nuts! Just because once a week works well for one of her friends in her marriage, doesn't mean that's enough for you. I mean, maybe it would be enough for you if your wife was actually passionate and into you in everyway WHILE having sex that one day a week.

 

Counselling is a good idea.

 

My point exactly. I don't care what the national average is for couples married 15+ years with two children.

[Mz. Pixie]

Have you honestly sat down with her and stated you're not willing to continue to live your life without sexual satisfaction??

 

Gosh, in the past she was unfaithful and now she's refusing to make your sex life all that it could be???

 

I do not understand women sometimes. How much time does it actually take to satisfy your husband sexually??

 

And who cares if everyone else is saying once a week is average! That's certainly not average in my house!

[Mz. Pixie]

Ooops! I wouldn't try the tactic of refraining from sex as a way to motivate her to change. I think she'll be happier than ever and feel that she is "off the hook". This is part of her feeling entitled to treat you this way.

 

I don't think it will work and will probably make you even more resentful when she doesn't respond the way you feel she should.

[cranium]

Have you honestly sat down with her and stated you're not willing to continue to live your life without sexual satisfaction??

 

I've told her I'm not satisfied with our sexual relationship. I’ve suggested talking about it, asking for what we each want, taking time to go slowly and pleasure each other, trading roles, massage and other physical acts without being sexual, stretching our edges, showers, lingerie, etc…

 

We both completed the marriagebuilders EN questionnaires about 3 years ago and she knows sexual fulfillment is a big one of mine. I have read numerous books, the last of which being Extraordinary Sex Now - A Couples Guide to Intimacy. She read most of this one, but wouldn't have except for me requesting we talk about it.

 

I wouldn't try the tactic of refraining from sex as a way to motivate her to change. I think she'll be happier than ever and feel that she is "off the hook". This is part of her feeling entitled to treat you this way.

 

I don't think it will work and will probably make you even more resentful when she doesn't respond the way you feel she should.

 

Thanks, Mz. P. I wouldn't be refraining as a tactic to motivate her. I've been working for years to improve our relationship and she hasn't responded and doesn't respond now the way I feel she should given how much we've discussed this issue. I build resentment when nothing ever changes. This way, I tell her I'm not interested in being sexual with her and she is "off the hook". She doesn't get it either, not even once a week. I'd be refraining, but not game playing if she knows why.

 

I'll shift my focus entirely to the kids, my work and my well-being. I'm willing to go to counseling again - sex counseling.

[hidee79]

I'm sure your wife has her side of the story, too. It seems that the underlying "judgement" of her is that she is frigid and selfish. But is that really fair?

 

It seems that she has friends, and she isn't Cruella de Ville to society. Therefore, the issue isn't 100% her. It's 50% you, also.

 

When you did the marriage builder questionnaire - what was HER primary needs? Are you fulfilling them with the same enthusiasm and selfless love that you expect her to fulfill your sexual needs?

 

My suggestion to you: appreciate the sex you have.

 

So often, we're too busy feeling negative about what is "lacking" or "missing" in our lives. People complain how they don't have sex, don't have money, don't have the best job, don't have the best wife, don't have...don't have. What about what you DO have?

 

There are so many men in the world who don't have a wife, or gf. There are men who would slit your throat, just to have a female companion. There are married men in America who are getting NO sex.

 

Next time you have sex with your wife, take a moment to appreciate the moment. Notice how warm and soft she is. Notice how her face looks when she is in pleasure. Hold her, just hold her. Feel how solid she feels. You don't know what tomorrow brings - eventually we will all die. All you have is the present time.

 

Right now, you are angry at her because she isn't giving you exactly what you need. Why does it have to be ONLY vaginal sex? Maybe it's what you prefer, but there are other ways. Why don't you get her off 90%, masturbate in front of her without a condom, and then finish her off with a toy? That is a good compromise.

 

Do you tell her she is beautiful? Do you look in her eyes and at her body in a way that makes her feel wanted?

 

Do you cuddle on the couch without it turning sexual? Just cuddle her to be affectionate? How about holding her hand, just to be sweet?

 

Do you ever just swing her around and laugh and smile? Do you give her a bear hug and kiss the top of her head? Why does intimacy only have to be sex? Many women feel resentful that their husbands only get affectionate when they want sex.

 

Don't expect years of resentment and habit to melt away overnight. Focus on appreciating, and not taking for granted, what is right in front of you.

[michaelk]

It seems that she has friends, and she isn't Cruella de Ville to society. Therefore, the issue isn't 100% her. It's 50% you, also.

 

Just because she puts on a friendly face for the outside world doesn't mean she's doing her part in the relationship, or that he isn't doing his.

 

There are so many men in the world who don't have a wife, or gf. There are men who would slit your throat, just to have a female companion. There are married men in America who are getting NO sex.

Sure, he can appreciate his wife for what she does provide, but what if that's not enough to base a good marriage on? Would you advise a woman whose husband gives her no love and affection to stay with him? Perhaps she has a roof over her head and food on the table - should she be grateful for having that and live without any emotional sustinence?

[Mz. Pixie]

I'm sure your wife has her side of the story, too. It seems that the underlying "judgement" of her is that she is frigid and selfish. But is that really fair?

 

 

True, we only know Craniums side of the story, however, I can tell you as the backstory that his wife had an affair. Cranium has worked hard in this marriage.

 

I think it's sad that women won't take the time to pleasure their husbands. It takes so little time really. Instead of reading a magazine or getting on the computer why couldn't she finish him off with OS??

 

What I'm getting is that when they are intimate she finishes first and then she doesn't finish him. Who denies their partner an orgasm?

[Virgo1982]

Thanks, whichway. The title of my thread on the Sex forum was Reciprocation.

 

 

 

This is part of the problem; she won't reciprocate in this manner. Each week would become every other week - meaning it would always be her turn. I'm worried about causing more headaches also, but this lack of sexuality is having it's toll on me.

 

She might not be comfortable with her sexuality. Either way, she has to make an effort. I know she'd be devastated if you went to find a willing partner somewhere else and you would be a horrible, selfish, sexually-satisfied scumbag. I am sure of it.

[JamesM]

My point exactly. I don't care what the national average is for couples married 15+ years with two children.

 

 

Good thing! I would be happy with sex once a week. Like hidee79 said, you may want to appreciate what you have a little more.

 

Having said that, WWIU said exactly what I would say to your wife and my wife..."Okay, once a week is okay, BUT please be passionate and enjoy it." That would make all of the difference.

 

I can say that by focusing on the sex you don't have and pointing out to her what she needs to do differently...I don't think this will solve your problems. For some reason she has lost the passion. Telling her what to change won't bring it back.

 

I am sure you have done it, but dating your wife would be a big help. Becoming happy with her in every other area may get her to see that she is more than just a sex partner.

[hidee79]

We are all 100% responsible for our own happiness.

 

When one person changes (and I mean a fundamental change), the situation cannot remain the same. The status quo has been disrupted.

 

Since you can't make another person change, all you can do is change yourself. I know, it's easier to blame the other. But...no one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to keep the status quo. You choose to complain, rather than appreciate. You choose to give power to resentment. No matter how badly someone treats you, if you are an adult, you choose your reaction (for more on this - read Viktor Frankl, who survived the Nazi concentration camps)

 

Gandhi said this- be the change you want to see in others. And...what you resist will persist, and grow in power.

 

My fiancé killed himself less than a year ago. And not too long ago, I faced death myself. And today, I have a new relationship and I am happier than ever before. I choose to be happy. So many of my fellow survivors are still stuck on the past. But...all we have is the present. The past has happened. The future is uncertain. All we have, seriously, is the now.

 

Appreciate your wife. Appreciate your children. Appreciate your health, the fact that you're alive. Before you know it, you'll be facing death, and trust me, when you face death, you will NOT be thinking, "man, I didn't get enough sex!" Instead, you'll be thinking, "I wish I had been more forgiving/loving/understanding/etc.."