Trialbyfire Posted December 7, 2007 Posted December 7, 2007 I don't know if you are trying to joke with me about the matter, but if you are, it is not welcome. If not, and if that is some sort of serious answer to my earlier response regarding why I do not advise other people much here, then suffice it to say that given my own social history, few people would have use for any advice I could possibly give, and fewer still would be likely to benefit from actually using it. Have you read a lot of the advice on these boards? There's an awful lot that isn't relative to what the individual wants or needs. The difference is that other members try to help, regardless of social abilities. This is very much like creating friendships. You have to try to get along with people, regardless of the effectiveness of your attempts. People don't owe you help on LS, same as people don't owe you friendship or need to step up to what you consider to be an acceptable form of friendship. Perhaps it's time for you to step it up, so you can meet people on the level they consider acceptable.
Author Lights Posted December 7, 2007 Author Posted December 7, 2007 Have you read a lot of the advice on these boards? There's an awful lot that isn't relative to what the individual wants or needs. The difference is that other members try to help, regardless of social abilities. This is very much like creating friendships. You have to try to get along with people, regardless of the effectiveness of your attempts. People don't owe you help on LS, same as people don't owe you friendship or need to step up to what you consider to be an acceptable form of friendship. Perhaps it's time for you to step it up, so you can meet people on the level they consider acceptable. I never claimed that people here owed me advice. I have already explained the reasons why I had not gone around spouting advice I might have had; if it is an issue, I am willing to remedy the matter. I can post up with advice to people in future. I've already went into detail about how I've done my share and then some in terms of trying to get along with them and reaching out to the people of the local cultures, so I will not waste anyone's time any further on the matter--for my purposes, that matter is closed. Very cute. I don't appreciate your baseless accusations of hypocrisy regarding my interactions with the people in the local cultures--such baseless accusations are rather disgusting and such derisive use of imitation appears quite childishly petty. Are we done with this sort of game-playing? I'd rather not let this degenerate into further unpleasantry. You mentioned earlier you don't know how you come across to people reading your posts. I'll be honest. You come across as robotic, as if you're Mr Data from Star Trek trying to learn about the human race from the outside. I'm not saying this to be critical, but is it possible that you are this stiff and cold in real life? Have you ever considered you might have Asperger's syndrome? I don't know if I come across that way in real life. Although I certainly have been socially an outsider in some ways for many years (although during a bit of it, some of it was self-imposed), so maybe that explains the learning from the outside bit. I'll see what I can observe. I don't believe I do.
sb129 Posted December 7, 2007 Posted December 7, 2007 I don't appreciate your baseless accusations of hypocrisy regarding my interactions with the people in the local cultures--such baseless accusations are rather disgusting and such derisive use of imitation appears quite childishly petty. Where did TBF do that? I missed it. Not being funny Lights, but did she really do that? Could you highlight where?
Author Lights Posted December 7, 2007 Author Posted December 7, 2007 Where did TBF do that? I missed it. Not being funny Lights, but did she really do that? Could you highlight where? Implied right here; telling me that I need to step it up is indicative of claiming that I did not do my part in attempting to create the friendships or other such dealings, when I clearly have. In other words, it is an accusation of hypocrisy, given what I am looking for. Using the phraseology I used earlier on in such a fashion was the derisive use of imitation I mentioned. This is very much like creating friendships. You have to try to get along with people, regardless of the effectiveness of your attempts... Perhaps it's time for you to step it up, so you can meet people on the level they consider acceptable.
sb129 Posted December 7, 2007 Posted December 7, 2007 I don't think she is playing games with you. I think when she said "step it up" she didn't mean that you HADN'T been doing anything to improve your situation, but that maybe you needed to do it in a different way or put a different kind of energy into it, because no offense, but whatever you have been doing isn't working. Saying "step it up" means that you need to change your tactics to something that is more likely to be successful.
Author Lights Posted December 17, 2007 Author Posted December 17, 2007 I don't think she is playing games with you. I don't buy that. Saying "step it up" means that you need to change your tactics to something that is more likely to be successful. I do not believe your claim. But nevertheless, it is obvious that what I have been doing does not suit my purposes; this, not to anyone's surprise here, is why I'm asking advice.
Trialbyfire Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 I don't buy that. I do not believe your claim. But nevertheless, it is obvious that what I have been doing does not suit my purposes; this, not to anyone's surprise here, is why I'm asking advice. But when you're given advice, you're not interested in it and get defensive. Have you learned anything from LS or maybe it's because we're not at the level you believe, to meet your bar...
Author Lights Posted December 17, 2007 Author Posted December 17, 2007 ... What? You posted back? I believe I must be having vision problems as I'm not seeing your apology for having falsely accused me of hypocrisy earlier in the thread.
Trialbyfire Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 What? You posted back? I believe I must be having vision problems as I'm not seeing your apology for having falsely accused me of hypocrisy earlier in the thread. I can see that you and I will never be friends. Have a nice life...
sb129 Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 What? You posted back? I believe I must be having vision problems as I'm not seeing your apology for having falsely accused me of hypocrisy. Lights, I am trying to be sympathetic to your situation, I really am. (and believe it or not, TBF is too. She doesn't waste her time posting otherwise). But when you behave like this on a FORUM, its not too hard to visualise your real life behaviour being similar, and then its not such a big leap to try to understand why people struggle with you. People are drawn in the first instance to those who are interested in them, friendly, approachable, natural, agreeable (without being a pushover), confident (but not arrogant) and able to laugh at themselves. Even on a forum, you don't come across as having the majority of those characteristics. Intelligence, education, the ability to debate, knowledge and hobbies/interests are all SECONDARY characteristics that may or may not be important enough to someone when they want to be friends with someone else. These things come into play later. Sometimes they are more important in some friendships than others...
Storyrider Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 Lights, I am trying to be sympathetic to your situation, I really am. (and believe it or not, TBF is too. She doesn't waste her time posting otherwise). But when you behave like this on a FORUM, its not too hard to visualise your real life behaviour being similar, and then its not such a big leap to try to understand why people struggle with you. People are drawn in the first instance to those who are interested in them, friendly, approachable, natural, agreeable (without being a pushover), confident (but not arrogant) and able to laugh at themselves. Even on a forum, you don't come across as having the majority of those characteristics. Intelligence, education, the ability to debate, knowledge and hobbies/interests are all SECONDARY characteristics that may or may not be important enough to someone when they want to be friends with someone else. These things come into play later. Sometimes they are more important in some friendships than others... Tell me more about these humanoids, SB. Fascinating.
sb129 Posted December 18, 2007 Posted December 18, 2007 Tell me more about these humanoids, SB. Fascinating. I don't get it? Its early....
Storyrider Posted December 18, 2007 Posted December 18, 2007 I don't get it? Its early.... I just think Lights has such a mechanical approach to emotional issues. I don't really understand where that is coming from in him, and he hasn't explained it. See Post 25.
Trialbyfire Posted December 18, 2007 Posted December 18, 2007 I just think Lights has such a mechanical approach to emotional issues. I don't really understand where that is coming from in him, and he hasn't explained it. See Post 25. He has the feelings within himself but he has no empathy/sympathy for other people or the ability to see beyond how he feels. It's like he lives in a bubble, where the skin of the bubble only allows output, not input.
Storyrider Posted December 18, 2007 Posted December 18, 2007 He has the feelings within himself but he has no empathy/sympathy for other people or the ability to see beyond how he feels. It's like he lives in a bubble, where the skin of the bubble only allows output, not input. Yes, that seems to be part of it. But I've mostly seen him express negative emotions ranging from mild annoyance to rage. I haven't heard him talk about loving or even liking anyone.
Trialbyfire Posted December 18, 2007 Posted December 18, 2007 Yes, that seems to be part of it. But I've mostly seen him express negative emotions ranging from mild annoyance to rage. I haven't heard him talk about loving or even liking anyone. Very true. You can only like or love someone else, if you like or love yourself. I wonder if he's ever reached out to create laughter or a smile on someone else's face and get pleasure from their laughter/amusement?
Author Lights Posted June 23, 2008 Author Posted June 23, 2008 I've run clear out of ideas. Nothing I've come up with after all this time has been effective in getting things across, and I still can't escape. It's just getting more frustrating, and it's making me just more lost. It's as if diplomacy is clearly failing but there's no one across the table to begin with... If anyone can help, it'd be much appreciated.
Ssheena Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 "But I'd like to learn something more enlightened, perhaps a body language technique that communicates "It'll take much more work to get a chance with this individual; feel free, but make sure to step up and polish your socializing skills first", or the like. Basically how to be perceived, preferably on sight, as the kind of person who is identifiable as someone who does his part in socializing and doesn't accept what I'm currently running into, and is casually used to far better interactions from people from all cultures" Do you have any friends? That you talk to every day or every other day or hang out with? Anyone that knows you? If so, I would say ask them and tell them to be blunt. My guess is you come off/across as very unapproachable and very much an elitist snob and I doubt a move to another country, or city is going to make any difference. Seriously, you get what you give off. I don't know what to suggest to help you with this issue, but you remind me of a story I used to read when I was a child. A very pretty girl but her nose turned up and no one liked her. She had to go live in a house with many other girls and she finally learned empathy and not to think about herself first. Good luck.
Author Lights Posted July 16, 2008 Author Posted July 16, 2008 Do you have any friends? That you talk to every day or every other day or hang out with? Anyone that knows you? If so, I would say ask them and tell them to be blunt. My guess is you come off/across as very unapproachable and very much an elitist snob and I doubt a move to another country, or city is going to make any difference. I don't, unfortunately. The only ones I could trust with those sorts of questions are now gone. If I do find such people in future, I'll ask them though. However, if wondering just why I'm somehow being considered as beneath receiving a first "whassup dude" on an instant messaging program constitutes being an elitist, or if getting irritated at how I'm still the only one ever calling anyone up or reaching out to meet the new guy constitutes snobbery, I intend to be an elitist snob for the rest of my life. Seriously, you get what you give off. I don't know what to suggest to help you with this issue, but you remind me of a story I used to read when I was a child. A very pretty girl but her nose turned up and no one liked her. She had to go live in a house with many other girls and she finally learned empathy and not to think about herself first. I will never learn empathy for a social culture which showed me none and has done little but insult and lowball me for years on end. If the things I am unfortunately co-located with want empathy from me, they can start working very hard to earn it. I'm not exactly holding my breath anticipating that happening, though. Good luck. Thanks.
Trimmer Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 ...if getting irritated at how I'm still the only one ever calling anyone up or reaching out to meet the new guy constitutes snobbery, I intend to be an elitist snob for the rest of my life. You're completely entitled to do that, just don't sound mystified as to why things don't change for you. I will never learn empathy for a social culture which showed me none and has done little but insult and lowball me for years on end. You're mad at the world, and that anger will continue to interfere with your relationships with individuals. If the things I am unfortunately co-located with want empathy from me, they can start working very hard to earn it. Did you really just refer to the people around you as "things?" I'm not exactly holding my breath anticipating that happening, though. No, you shouldn't, because you have yourself a nicely entrenched standoff here. The people around you don't care, and you don't have any leverage to influence them.
Author Lights Posted July 23, 2008 Author Posted July 23, 2008 You're completely entitled to do that, just don't sound mystified as to why things don't change for you. What's the alternative, though? Trying to delude myself into somehow liking being treated this way? Did you really just refer to the people around you as "things?" I certainly did.
Ssheena Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 I have never encountered a thing such as you with such an attitude. Quite honestly, I see no hope for you. Sorry. Maybe you should invest in one of the robots or really good dolls they have now for men/women.
Lovelybird Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 Light Have you ever tried to be in other's shoes once in a while? If you put yourself in the center of your world, which all of us do on different degrees, then you are the judge for everything for everyone. For example, if a person who had a bad day or who had a tough life may meet you one day, and for no reason he treated you badly because his mood was very bad, he had no ability to treat you right at the moment. If you judge his behaviours toward you when you put youself in the centre, then you will judge that: he is rude, how can he treat me like that, his culture is wrong or what.... But if you try to be in his shoes, and learn more of him, probably you will find out he had a bad day, or he had tough life before, or he doesn't have the ability to treat you right, then you will have peace and not grudge him that much. And do you empathy yourself usually? such as when you feel sad, feel hurt, feel hopeless, did you just simply shut down these feelings, or guide them in a positive way? If you shut down your emotions, then probably you will have difficult time to empathy others.
Author Lights Posted July 26, 2008 Author Posted July 26, 2008 I've cut all the locals off from my life again. Back to the beginning... Light Have you ever tried to be in other's shoes once in a while? ... But if you try to be in his shoes, and learn more of him, probably you will find out he had a bad day, or he had tough life before, or he doesn't have the ability to treat you right, then you will have peace and not grudge him that much. As I mentioned before, the time for empathy and sympathy is over. The people of this culture haven't done a damned thing to earn it after all these years. If anything, I need to devise something more punitive. Even if it means in the short run that fewer will deal with me at all, the message has to get out. This has long ago gotten out of hand, and the appeasement policies of playing nice, following social rules, and expending more time and emotional capital on social ritual have not been doing the job.
Lovelybird Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Lights, it is like you imagine yourself as a king, and everyone should worship you, should try their best to please you, if they fail, then they committed a severe crime. This is what I read from your posts. In fact, everyone wants to be a king or queen for a while, but in reality, it doesn't work that way. Suppose one is a king, then do whatever he wants, everyone should please him, then he must have a huge ego, could not understand others, only see his own needs. Pain and frustration serve a good purpose, that you can experience that, and understand why others feel what they feel, and do what they do, yes, empathy. Suppose you meet people who are very self-centred, I guess many are, you want them to make effort to reach out to you, give you cares, but because they are self-centred or sink in their own problems, they expect you to do the effort. So your expectation that people would make effort to make you feel good, or give you what you want will be frustrated very often. The sooner you realize this, the better you will get. Do you see? all people want the same as you: that others make efforts to please them or comfort them So if you want love, start to give love, if you want empathy from others, start to give empathy, if you want friendship, start to give friendship. Some people after received your friendship or love or care, they may not respond to you, they may get used to receiving from you not give back to you (then they are quite self-centred people, you cannot do anything about it); but there are many people who give back. what if you meet the first type persons? what about me? who would give me love and care because I need those things as well? For me, I get those things from God when I cannot get them. God created human being to have a relationship with Him, if we don't, we cannot help feeling lonely Truth #1: people forever want to receive more than give unless they learn the true happiness of giving, and motived by genuine love. Good friends are not that easy to be found So you can change your frustrations if you realize these things. If you want to receive love, you have to have it in your heart in the first place, sounds strange, but true. I think you really want true connections with others, but when you only see own needs, that connection won't happen; only when you genuinely care about others, that connection will be there I never heard you speak out your emotions, do you shut down your feelings very often? except of anger I mean
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