Lauriebell82 Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Hi everybody! I've been reading a lot about guys who keep telling their gfs that they want to marry them, but never propose. One of my best friends is in this situation. She actually just gave birth to their daughter over the summer. They live together and talk about getting married all the time, he tells her he's going to buy the ring and things, but alas no proposal. The pregnancy was kind of an "oops" kind of thing, but my friend still says she would like her daughter to have parents who are married. Then their are the women who post on here about their bfs telling them they aren't ready to get married..much of the advice is to just walk away. Is it really the fact that if he doesn't want to get married right now, then he really just doesn't want to marry you? I don't actually have the heart to tell my friend that her bf is never going to propose, and that he actually just doesnt want to be married to her. Any thoughts on the subject?
Star Gazer Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 I'm not sure. I think it depends on a lot of factors: how old they are, what they've accomplished in life, how long they've been together, whether they'd made it past major milestones and obstacles together. I worry about my good friend though. She's been with her BF going on 5 years now. They've lived together for 3, he's 36 and she's 30. He still "doesn't know" if he EVER wants to get married. It's not a HER issue, it's a HIM issue. If she asked my opinion, I'd tell her to move on. On the other hand, by best friend met her BF in college. They dated 5 years before getting married last December. One year into their relationship, he was talking marriage and babies. Every time they went on a romantic trip, she thought, "This is it! He's going to propose!" and he never did...well, until he did. They had some very hard times during those five years, and she thought during a few that they weren't going to make it. Well, they're now married. I can only hope that they are truly happy. Thing is, I think tons of guys talk marriage and babies, and mean it only in general. Despite the fact they might loosely use the "we" word when discussing those subjects, I think women too often assume any marriage and babies talk truly means that the dude wants to marry THEM when it's simply a hypothetical, if that makes sense. That said, if/when a guy says he wants to marry me...I expect him to mean RIGHT NOW. Those words mean nothing unless he's willing to get hitched at this very single minute. It's really no different than saying, "I will love you someday."
jerbear Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Some guys are truely not ready to get married. Depends on many factors like education, moving, career change, etc... Some guys need a threat of the relationship ending before they really propose. It it not that guys are not ready, some are but just scared. Why propose marriage when they already have the girl and not much would change other than "I do?"
oppath Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 That said, if/when a guy says he wants to marry me...I expect him to mean RIGHT NOW. Those words mean nothing unless he's willing to get hitched at this very single minute. It's really no different than saying, "I will love you someday." I'm the guy for you then . I've had girlfriends say things like "I think you are the guy I am going to marry" early in the relationship, around 2-3 months, and it freaks me out. Me saying "I love you" is difficult though I can say "I am falling in love with you." Is there a difference? Yes. When I say serious things, I mean them. So if I am falling in love with you, I mean I am really excited about where things are going, and am developing deep feelings. When I say I love you it means "you are someone I am certain I want to remain with, no matter what happens to me in my career, my family, whatever. I'd want to find a way to stick with you." If I were to talk about marriage or kids, it would be because I am getting ready for that. For me, I have milestones. I don't want to talk about marriage and babies until my career has been minimally established, and since I will need to move after grad school for that to happen, I sadly can't say "I love you" unless I felt like I would make it work with the woman, and I couldn't talk about marriage unless the woman and I were able to compromise (long distance for a while, her move with me, etc). But I know all bets are off when I meet "the one". I know I won't be ready until I've moved for my post graduate school job. If a woman were to bring up marriage, and I was falling in love with her, I'd be honest: "I'm not ready to talk about that yet. Yes, I hope it happens one day, and I am in this for the long haul, but marriage is not on my radar until after my career has been started, and I expect we'll have some challenges together when we reach that point. I wouldn't be with you if I didn't want and hope for it to happen one day." Of course, my gf's always start talking about "when we get married" after 2-3 months. ALWAYS! All I know at that point is if I like them enough not to date other women. I'd like to have a few fights first before talking about marriage, but the marriage talk usually is the first fight . Seriously, if you say "I'm 85% sure you are the guy I am going to marry" all I can say is "that really flatters me." They always say "don't you think we are going to get married some day?!?!" All I can say is "we've only been dating a few months. I want a relationship with you. You excite me. But marriage is a couple years off for me."
Trialbyfire Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 The last thing anyone should want to do, is to pressure anyone into getting married. Marriage should never be viewed as disposable. It's a lifetime commitment and both parties should want to do this with both their hearts and heads. Having said that, if you've moved in with someone and giving them everything they could want in a marriage without the mental/emotional commitment, where's the incentive to get married?
oppath Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Having said that, if you've moved in with someone and giving them everything they could want in a marriage without the mental/emotional commitment, where's the incentive to get married? I don't want to move in unless I am proposing. People say "you'll learn if you are compatible" but without the commitment in place, it is precarious. I think research has shown that living together before an engagment has a higer percentage of divorce down the road, but is is still subjective depending on the person. I for one would not feel comfortable living with a gf unless I was proposing.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted November 19, 2007 Author Posted November 19, 2007 I don't want to move in unless I am proposing. People say "you'll learn if you are compatible" but without the commitment in place, it is precarious. I think research has shown that living together before an engagment has a higer percentage of divorce down the road, but is is still subjective depending on the person. I for one would not feel comfortable living with a gf unless I was proposing. Actually I have thought about the living together thing as well. My friend has lived with her bf now for like 4+ years and have a baby..so why would he really have to marry her at this point? I lived with an ex bf when I was like 21 (i'm 25 now) and we talked about getting married years and years from then. So it wasn't really that we were at the point where we needed to have set in stone plans. However, now that I'm older i'm finding that I would like to have something like that in place (engagement or about to be). I guess i'm just wondering whether or not moving in together wihout being engaged sets someone up for the situation of waiting around.
sumdude Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Having said that, if you've moved in with someone and giving them everything they could want in a marriage without the mental/emotional commitment, where's the incentive to get married? To make it a permanent commitment to say I'm ready for the rest of my life with you. I lived with my ex for 4 years before I proposed... i was serious... we got married. alas I was apparently the only one who actually believed in the commitment. Marriage is not the goal, it's just the beginning. I think the actual wedding and getting married is so over emphasizesd in our society, no one thinks past it. Most romace movies end at the wedding after all....
Trialbyfire Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 To make it a permanent commitment to say I'm ready for the rest of my life with you. I lived with my ex for 4 years before I proposed... i was serious... we got married. alas I was apparently the only one who actually believed in the commitment. Marriage is not the goal, it's just the beginning. I think the actual wedding and getting married is so over emphasizesd in our society, no one thinks past it. Most romace movies end at the wedding after all.... Did you propose because you knew she wanted to get married, or were you the driver?
Art_Critic Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 I think many young guys do this to keep the free milk coming in... You know.. why buy the cow when the milk is free.. So they hook the girl almost promising marriage but never propose.. the other one.. and I'm guilty of pulling this one once when I was about 23 is asking a girl to marry you, you move in together but never set a date.. I think I did it to keep the free milk... I would suggest to any woman who accepts a proposal to make 100% sure that the date is set and set instone and a realistic date to boot...
Star Gazer Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 I guess i'm just wondering whether or not moving in together wihout being engaged sets someone up for the situation of waiting around. I really think it does. My best friend waited and waited and waited. My other friend is STILL waiting. When I lived with my ex, I waited and waited and waited. If they're getting everything they need while living together other than certain legal rights, what real incentive to they have to get hitched?
Author Lauriebell82 Posted November 19, 2007 Author Posted November 19, 2007 I really think it does. My best friend waited and waited and waited. My other friend is STILL waiting. When I lived with my ex, I waited and waited and waited. If they're getting everything they need while living together other than certain legal rights, what real incentive to they have to get hitched? Yeah, I think so too. My best friend just got married over the summer and they moved in together before they were engaged, however she had already picked out her ring and they talked about marriage constanstly. And he proposed to her about 3 months after moving in together. But now my other friend who has a daughter now, she was in the same situation 4 years ago. her bf says he was going to buy her a ring and all, but now 4+ years later he hasn't proposed. I guess I'm torn on the situation.
jerbear Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 I almost bought a condo with the intention of having the gf move-in and "set up house." I told her that the condo purchase was my step toward marriage and if there are doubts; bring it up now. The condo was small for 2 people because I factored just my income instead of a combined income.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted November 19, 2007 Author Posted November 19, 2007 I almost bought a condo with the intention of having the gf move-in and "set up house." I told her that the condo purchase was my step toward marriage and if there are doubts; bring it up now. The condo was small for 2 people because I factored just my income instead of a combined income. Ya know it's actually interesting because my bf brought up the fact that he wanted us to buy a condo when we move into together. I'm hesitant to do that without being married though, and I feel kind of weird having him buy it and me moving in because then it wouldnt really be my condo it would be his. If we were engaged i might be willing to do that, but we aren't. Do you feel it would be a good idea to buy something together and have a contract like that without being married or at least engaged?
jerbear Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Ya know it's actually interesting because my bf brought up the fact that he wanted us to buy a condo when we move into together. I'm hesitant to do that without being married though, and I feel kind of weird having him buy it and me moving in because then it wouldnt really be my condo it would be his. If we were engaged i might be willing to do that, but we aren't. Do you feel it would be a good idea to buy something together and have a contract like that without being married or at least engaged? Buying a condo together, make sure it is a binding legal contact. Each state has a different meaning for common law marriage. So be careful how the contract is done, the living together, etc... Check with legal counsel before about the contract. You two might have a fiancial contract and also have a common law marriage and not know it. I understand your concern about his condo and it is very valid. I did consider buying the condo using my own money and "be mine." Like I said to all my gf's; as my gf, what is mine is yours, where I go you can go unless the other party says otherwise (private meeting), my house is your house, etc... After marriage, get another one together and rent this one out.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted November 19, 2007 Author Posted November 19, 2007 Buying a condo together, make sure it is a binding legal contact. Each state has a different meaning for common law marriage. So be careful how the contract is done, the living together, etc... Check with legal counsel before about the contract. You two might have a fiancial contract and also have a common law marriage and not know it. I understand your concern about his condo and it is very valid. I did consider buying the condo using my own money and "be mine." Like I said to all my gf's; as my gf, what is mine is yours, where I go you can go unless the other party says otherwise (private meeting), my house is your house, etc... After marriage, get another one together and rent this one out. I would never enter into that kind of a contract without being married. I don't really want him to get his own place and then have me move in because then it's not really my place, it's his. The whole living together thing freaks me out a little bit, esp. people's comments about waiting for proposals.
oppath Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 well Lauriebell, remember, everyone is different. I know lots of people who have lived together before marriage and they got married. As a man, I personally would want to be engaged before allowing her to live with me. That is my preference. If a gf was moving and needed a place to crash, if she were on my coach more than 2 weeks and only looked at 5 places, my stubbornness would kick in and I'd get pissed (my dad raised me that way; he was pissed if I applied for 5 jobs in 1 day, because I could have applied for 15). However, I've also seen people move in and feel trapped. A personal requirement for me, since I have dated women who never lived away from their parents but were 26, is not only for the girl to have lived with roommates, but to have lived for at least 6 months completely alone, before I would propose. That is a preference of course, not an absolute. I would just be more attracted to someone and more secure if I knew they could be on their own. That is a trait that would attract me and make me want to commit to them more deeply. As for your situation...it is individual. If you can talk to your bf about how he sees the next couple years working out, without pressuring him, that is a start. You can always say "I'd like to live alone until we are engaged."
Author Lauriebell82 Posted November 19, 2007 Author Posted November 19, 2007 As for your situation...it is individual. If you can talk to your bf about how he sees the next couple years working out, without pressuring him, that is a start. You can always say "I'd like to live alone until we are engaged." I'm afraid to ask him how or when he sees us getting married. We don't talk about it in great detail, I just don't want to put myself in a situation where i'm waiting around for a proposal that isn't going to come. I don't even care if he waits until next year (we aren't moving in together until May), I just don't want to be living together for years and years without engagement or marriage. Should I talk to him about it? You give good advice from guy's perspective so I'd like to get your opinion. I don't want him to think i'm pressuring him at all! But now we are talking about buying houses and condos in additional to moving in together, but i don't know where marriage fits in there.
Phateless Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Hi everybody! I've been reading a lot about guys who keep telling their gfs that they want to marry them, but never propose. One of my best friends is in this situation. She actually just gave birth to their daughter over the summer. They live together and talk about getting married all the time, he tells her he's going to buy the ring and things, but alas no proposal. The pregnancy was kind of an "oops" kind of thing, but my friend still says she would like her daughter to have parents who are married. Then their are the women who post on here about their bfs telling them they aren't ready to get married..much of the advice is to just walk away. Is it really the fact that if he doesn't want to get married right now, then he really just doesn't want to marry you? I don't actually have the heart to tell my friend that her bf is never going to propose, and that he actually just doesnt want to be married to her. Any thoughts on the subject? Tell them to go to a relationship counselor. I "wasn't ready" with my ex-gf of 5 years. If she had sorted out a few issues, I would have gladly married her.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted November 19, 2007 Author Posted November 19, 2007 Tell them to go to a relationship counselor. I "wasn't ready" with my ex-gf of 5 years. If she had sorted out a few issues, I would have gladly married her. Yeah, I don't know why he won't marry her. Do you mean by "wasn't ready" that you just didn't want to marry her because you weren't sure?
Phateless Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Yeah, I don't know why he won't marry her. Do you mean by "wasn't ready" that you just didn't want to marry her because you weren't sure? No, it was more like a few certain behaviors that she had been telling me she would change for the last few years, and I didn't think she ever would. If she had changed those things and I believed it was permanent, I would have gladly put a ring on her finger. We've been apart a year and I still think of her every day. I really did love her intensely...
Author Lauriebell82 Posted November 19, 2007 Author Posted November 19, 2007 No, it was more like a few certain behaviors that she had been telling me she would change for the last few years, and I didn't think she ever would. If she had changed those things and I believed it was permanent, I would have gladly put a ring on her finger. We've been apart a year and I still think of her every day. I really did love her intensely... Aww, that's sad. Thanks for your input though. I have a lot of friends who are going through this type of thing and I'm trying to gain some insight to prevent myself from going through it as well.
Phateless Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Aww, that's sad. Thanks for your input though. I have a lot of friends who are going through this type of thing and I'm trying to gain some insight to prevent myself from going through it as well. That's smart and proactive of you. Basically, it had always been all about her and when I tried to get her to even things out, it just wouldn't happen. Soo yeah... maybe we weren't compatible in the first place but I tolerated her crap and stayed with her because I loved her? I dunno... I think that I loved her and wanted to marry her, but I didn't want things to stay the way they were. The girl was great, the relationship wasn't...
norajane Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Aww, that's sad. Thanks for your input though. I have a lot of friends who are going through this type of thing and I'm trying to gain some insight to prevent myself from going through it as well. You won't have to go through it if you don't move in with him before you are married. The only thing living together does is it teaches you how to share space, how to be roommates. It's nowhere near the same level of commitment as marriage. You already know you want to marry him and will say yes when he asks. So why commit yourself by moving in with him, if he isn't ready to commit to you? Wait for the commitment. And if it doesn't come, then you can walk away without having to move your whole world around. And I would not recommend buying a piece of property together until you are married. A mortgage is a 30 year financial commitment. If you (or he) decides later that you can't be married for some reason and decide to break up, then you have to sell the property because neither of you will be able to buy the other out to keep the place.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted November 19, 2007 Author Posted November 19, 2007 That's smart and proactive of you. Basically, it had always been all about her and when I tried to get her to even things out, it just wouldn't happen. Soo yeah... maybe we weren't compatible in the first place but I tolerated her crap and stayed with her because I loved her? I dunno... I think that I loved her and wanted to marry her, but I didn't want things to stay the way they were. The girl was great, the relationship wasn't... Yeah, see my bf and I are the opposite. We have an awesome relationship, are very compatible, we love each other very much and are talking about moving in together in May. However there is no talk of marriage or engagement. We talk about our future, buying a house, things like that. But no talk of a timeline about marriage or engagement. And after seeing what my friends are going through i'm afraid i'm going to be in the same situation.
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