KittenMoon Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 lol i can afford coffee, i can afford dinner....etc and what not. but why pay for someone u barely hardly now. i mean this fat obese girl once got interested in me, for some dumb reason i asked her out-not even intersted at all she said yes. i mean come on she should be totally flabbergasted that a toned sporty above avg looks guys even talk to her. its not a date. she kind of in a way expected me to pay. i was ah ok. it depends if they girl is a 3,4,5, and obese she should be happy a guy even talk to her. its like a brad pitt and a roseanne, the roseanne should be happy and be paying that a brad pitt is with her. brad pitt will pay once in a while ,but not always. hey if i gonna pay i might as well geta fine hotty at least a 7, i ain;t goin lower, gotta get ur moneys worth . i go for a 4 ,but i might at most is spend some cheap dinner, on her. its about getting ur moneys worth thats all Wow..... save your cash, man. Forget about being too poor, you're too douchey to be dating.
amerikajin Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 lol i can afford coffee, i can afford dinner....etc and what not. but why pay for someone u barely hardly now. i mean this fat obese girl once got interested in me, for some dumb reason i asked her out-not even intersted at all she said yes. i mean come on she should be totally flabbergasted that a toned sporty above avg looks guys even talk to her. its not a date. she kind of in a way expected me to pay. i was ah ok. it depends if they girl is a 3,4,5, and obese she should be happy a guy even talk to her. its like a brad pitt and a roseanne, the roseanne should be happy and be paying that a brad pitt is with her. brad pitt will pay once in a while ,but not always. hey if i gonna pay i might as well geta fine hotty at least a 7, i ain;t goin lower, gotta get ur moneys worth . i go for a 4 ,but i might at most is spend some cheap dinner, on her. its about getting ur moneys worth thats all Joel, Joel, Joel <shaking my head>....you need to be prepared to pay on the first date, and I would say this means both the coffee date and the real date if it gets that far. Some women will actually offer to pay, but I think you turn it down on the first date. Some women will insist on paying, in which case you let them. You have to be flexible. You offer to pay as a way of showing that you appreciate spending time with them. You don't insist on paying as a way of showing that you're not out to control or buy her. In my own experience, I pay but I also make mental notes. If a girl doesn't at least offer to pay for some portion of the date, then she goes down a notch in my book. That's not absolute, though. If you're cross-cultural dating then you have to be even more flexible and assume that there could be some gray areas. Always err on the side of being a gentleman. Just don't let her confuse being a gentleman with being a meal ticket or a wussy who will effectively pay for a few hours of her time. Get something out of it for yourself is what I'm saying. I did notice differences in dating attitudes between cultures when I was living overseas. The Japanese women I went out on dates with did NOT like being paid for, and I am convinced I probably lost a couple of dates over it. My experience was that in Japan, women felt like they were obligated to pay someone back and it made the vibe uncomfortable. They felt like they were being controlled. Other women I dated from other places had different attitudes. I dated two girls who flat out told me that they expected guys to pay. There's no universal rule, but it's better to err on the side of paying initially and then working out some type of system thereafter, I think.
luvmy2ns Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Always err on the side of being a gentleman. After reading his post that you quoted... are you serious?!
elaina Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 If you invited her to meet you for coffee, you're the one who should pay. It's not a matter of what's right and what's wrong, it's a matter of simple courtesy. A female will look at you real hard and not very favorably if you have difficulty springing for something as simple as coffee. If buying a lady a cup of coffee causes you this much grief, you are certainly in no financial condition to date. Save your money and try again next year. TonyT you should run for president! Yep you have good advice and you know women pretty well don't you? Poor guy, It's not that women want to snag your money or think you're only as good as your money, it's just what TonyT said, it's a courtesy. Have you even opened a door for a woman? Even if the woman bites your head off, at least she knows you're a gentleman... Gentlemen are a treasure whether it just comes natural or they have to grin and bear it, shows character!
elaina Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 lol i can afford coffee, i can afford dinner....etc and what not. but why pay for someone u barely hardly now. i mean this fat obese girl once got interested in me, for some dumb reason i asked her out-not even intersted at all she said yes. i mean come on she should be totally flabbergasted that a toned sporty above avg looks guys even talk to her. its not a date. she kind of in a way expected me to pay. i was ah ok. it depends if they girl is a 3,4,5, and obese she should be happy a guy even talk to her. its like a brad pitt and a roseanne, the roseanne should be happy and be paying that a brad pitt is with her. brad pitt will pay once in a while ,but not always. hey if i gonna pay i might as well geta fine hotty at least a 7, i ain;t goin lower, gotta get ur moneys worth . i go for a 4 ,but i might at most is spend some cheap dinner, on her. its about getting ur moneys worth thats all whoa I just read that! Are you bloody serious? If you don't like a girl don't ask her out! Shocking idea innit? And don't be so rude and ungentlemanly in slamming her in front of people! Do you not understand that women are people too? Do you even respect your Mom? You want women to treat you like a person by paying for themselves right? (even though it is cool when guys are gentlemen and are courteous) so why not start by treating them as people instead of numbers and items to get your moneys worth hmmm? How rude!!! And Brad Pitt by the way is even helping people in other countries with the money he makes...
bustertypsy Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 You really are not looking at the big picture.Did you ever hear the expression....first impressions last?? Well you come across as a right skinflint. Nobody is asking you to take out a 10 year loan,it's a cup of coffee for crying out loud!! I think one of the biggest turnoffs for men/women is a Mr Scrooge. So Ebenezer,if you can't share a cup of coffee,how the hell will you share what's important in life?Love,affection,doing anything for the one you love. Do yourself a BIG favour and grow up,quicker the better.
Woggle Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Gentlemen went out with the feminist movement. Women can't have it both ways and that is what they seem to want these days.
Krytie TV Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Gentlemen went out with the feminist movement. Women can't have it both ways and that is what they seem to want these days. I'm not surprised by your take on this woggle, but some things transcend the existential men vs. women bloodwar. This is a date... one in which the guy is wanting to get to know the girl on a possible intimate level. It's just they way it is. You don't have to do it. But in not doing it, you give up the right to complain about dating in general and about what it takes to attract a woman. Again, it's about choices. You don't want to pay, I support your decision fully. But everyone pays a price for their choices. If one is willing to pay the price, then be as tightfisted as you want to be. Just don't come ranting about how ridiculous dating is when you refuse to follow the most basic of protocols.
whichwayisup Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 why should i pay. she not a friend or anything ,but a online person i want to meet and see if any sparks for further meet ups There's your reason to pay. Big deal, so what is 5 bucks?? It's just a nice thing to do, especially since the whole point of 'meeting' the 1st time is get to know eachother. Not a full-on date, but still is sort of a date. If she asks you out for another date, tell her, "Okay, next time you get the coffee." if she is mature and interested it won't be a big deal. If she gets pissy with you, then drop her.
Trialbyfire Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 but some things transcend the existential men vs. women bloodwar. Come on Woggle, you must admit this is funny. If you're really this broke that $5 is going to break you, better to get to know the person in your daily interactions, until you're ready to honestly ask them for a date-date.
Lights Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 Just don't come ranting about how ridiculous dating is when you refuse to follow the most basic of protocols. Even if the protocol in question was already rendered obsolete? Since gentlemen went away with the feminist movement, why would any protocols regarding gentlemanliness still remain relevant?
Krytie TV Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 Even if the protocol in question was already rendered obsolete? Since gentlemen went away with the feminist movement, why would any protocols regarding gentlemanliness still remain relevant? I'm sorry to spill the beans, but this is one facet in which women will always dictate the protocol. Dissenters will always exist, but at their own risk. And you know what? Some men still believe in being gentlemen... not because they have to, but because *gasp* ready for this??? They want to. Stupid concept, huh?
Sunblast Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 Original Poster: You will find on this and other romantic advice websites that women will almost always do this same thing: (in life, too) -- If you come to them like, "Hey, I'm confused and unsure, please help me,.." almost all of them will tell you what amounts to EARNING women (attention, love, sex) and being kinda lucky or happy if you do. If you come in with a relaxed and even playful (not a fake clown but not a control freak with a stick up his ass) attitude of, "...are you KIDDING me, telling me this stuff? I'm doing it my way, and that's how it's gonna be..." women may give you this incredulous "omg are you serious" or call you a jerk/*******/etc but they will NEVER treat you like a little boy who's guilty (for everything, for being a boy) and needs to be punished by his mother. THIS (the boy scenario) is the situation that replays itself on every forum, in every post that flows how I described. Bro, Original Poster -- I had your dilemma. Listen. On the one hand: don't BUY people's attention or affection, women or men or anyone. Usually the case with women. Don't buy it. Lay down rules, etc. But on the other, bro.. I dunno what you make. Like, I make $35/hour, middle class. Bro... It's just coffee. Or it's just lunch. Or it's just whatever. Bro, if you met me, -- I'm a man, 25y/o -- and we worked at the same place and went out for drinks afterwards... would you count who bought what or would you just alternate rounds and you get chips for the table and I get appetizers or something.. That's your balance. Don't WORRY about losing ten bucks, or twenty, or fifty or whatever. That's not to say blow fifty on every chick who comes your way, but bro, imagine the first ten dates, you spend $500 total, and you get a girlfriend for half a year. She loves you, friends respect you, she's arm candy, you're happy, sex is good.. Bro, friends and love are are worth so much more than money, and when money CAN help buy them, which is often, bro, spend it. You can ALWAYS make more money, man. Always. What you get back -- friends and women -- is worth so much more, it's UNREAL. You will learn it when you're older anyway, but try to learn it NOW, when it counts. You wanna LIVE life, not be old + smart and just teach others how to live.
RecordProducer Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 I totally agree with you, Joel. I am the traditional kind of woman who expects from a man to pay for her and it's certainly not because I am hungry and need his meal. A guy would impress me if he took me to a fancy restaurant on the first date - if I know he can actually afford it. If I went out with an engineer who probably makes $80k a year, and he offered me a cup of coffee, I would think that he is cheap. But if I went out with a student who lived on a tight budget, I would never expect from him to pay for me. If we're just friends, I would pull out my wallet and expect from him to be a gentleman and pay, but the next time I would pay. If we're both students, we should share the costs. In your case, however, girls are expecting to save money just because you are a guy. Finally, if the rule is that the one who invites has to pay, then you shouldn't invite anyone until you graduate from school, right? But is that worth sacrificing your social life? If you want to impress a girl, pay for her meal and ice cream, but she better invite you for dinner in her place on the second date.
RecordProducer Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 That's your balance. Don't WORRY about losing ten bucks, or twenty, or fifty or whatever. That's not to say blow fifty on every chick who comes your way, but bro, imagine the first ten dates, you spend $500 total, and you get a girlfriend for half a year. She loves you, friends respect you, she's arm candy, you're happy, sex is good.. Bro, friends and love are are worth so much more than money, and when money CAN help buy them, which is often, bro, spend it. You can ALWAYS make more money, man. Always. What you get back -- friends and women -- is worth so much more, it's UNREAL. You will learn it when you're older anyway, but try to learn it NOW, when it counts. You wanna LIVE life, not be old + smart and just teach others how to live.I like this advice.
Woggle Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 I am quite well off and pretty comfortable but if I were still single I would not buy a woman something off the dollar menu unless we were serious. I refuse to be sued for a free meal and that is why many women date. In the 1970s feminist declared that a woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle and that women should be independent from men so it's time for women to put their money where their mouth is. It's not just paying either. I don't hold open doors, do heavy lifting or give up my seat to women on the bus and train. I treat women the same way I would treat a man and if all men did the same thing maybe we can start winning.
RecordProducer Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 I am quite well off and pretty comfortable but if I were still single I would not buy a woman something off the dollar menu unless we were serious. I refuse to be sued for a free meal and that is why many women date. In the 1970s feminist declared that a woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle and that women should be independent from men so it's time for women to put their money where their mouth is. It's not just paying either. I don't hold open doors, do heavy lifting or give up my seat to women on the bus and train. I treat women the same way I would treat a man and if all men did the same thing maybe we can start winning.Well, you're the biggest feminist! You treat women as equal to men in every respect. I think this society has social rules that require the man to open the door for a woman or for an older person. Men are physically stronger than women and believe me, when I ask hubby to empty the trunk, it because it would take me 6 times to transfer my 20 bags, while it takes him once. As for paying, it's sweet and generous to offer to pay for your male friend, too. Splitting the check is for students - adults who can afford it shouldn't do that if they intend to see each other again. If I went out with a guy who was well off, but split the cost with me - I'd offer to pay for him if I was well off, but I'd never go out with him again. This is especially ridiculous if the check is 20-30 bucks. Woggle, if you want to receive respect, you have to show respect. You don't display your dignity - it has to be felt without being exercised. P.S. Do you ever argue with your wife? What's her occupation? (just being curious)
Sunblast Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 Actually, that got me thinking, that's kinda true, what the guy above me said. Again, looking at my situation: I make 35 an hour, more or less (business). If I'm out with someone and it costs us 30 bucks, say, that's one hour of my work. Like if I were helping someone move, or even socializing with someone -- if I were talking to a neighbor -- I wouldn't say/think, okay, it's been half an hour now, so now you owe me -- so why be that petty in lunches and dates? Going off of an assumption you (and I) aren't completely retarded, you already pre-sort people, so those you ask out are attractive enough for you to consider potential mates/dates/f'cks. So isn't a potential long term partner worth a 'gamble' of two hours' time? This almost seems ridiculous. I, for instance, spend nearly $100/week in gas (pickup + California prices). Don't think twice about it. But isn't it kinda ****ed up to worry about an extra twenty bucks to offer/invest/even gamble, on a HUMAN BEING of some useful potential?.... When at the same time you (I) spend $15/day on gas alone without a second thought? See, if you think about it like this, I think you'll see a different point of view from yours. I write these posts because I used to think THE SAME EXACT WAY AS YOU because I didn't want to be used, but then figured, come on, if I am truly successful in life as my ego tells me I am, why the hell would I worry about 'losing' a few hundred dollars over the course of weeks/months...? That's kind of ridiculous.
Trialbyfire Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 woggle, it's rude not to hold the door open for anyone. I hold doors open for men who are twice as big as I am. If you allow the door to slam in everyone else's face, you will find that doors will slam in your face, particularly when your arms are full. I mean this realistically and figuratively. Get some common courtesy.
jcster Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 You guys keep talking like this is some kind of investment. Here's a great rule of thumb for ya...how about you don't buy anything for anybody unless you want to? Save yourself (and your date) the embarassment of quibbling over the check. When you meet someone you would LOVE to buy dinner for...who you would be happy to spend $40 bucks just to spend another hour with them...then you WIN! Until then, just don't even try, ok? It's just tacky to be talking about people as if they were junk bonds.
Trialbyfire Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 junk bonds A good annual return at 16 - 20% interest rates, if you can get them to pay up... Hey, sounds like a date, according to certain men.
oppath Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 You guys keep talking like this is some kind of investment. Here's a great rule of thumb for ya...how about you don't buy anything for anybody unless you want to? Save yourself (and your date) the embarassment of quibbling over the check. When you meet someone you would LOVE to buy dinner for...who you would be happy to spend $40 bucks just to spend another hour with them...then you WIN! Until then, just don't even try, ok? It's just tacky to be talking about people as if they were junk bonds. HAHA. Looking at last summer, when I was making $40/hour instead of the $9 as a grad student, yeah, dating was far more easy. That said, plenty of women are happy to grab a cup of coffee or ice cream or split the bill for a gourmet pizza. Why? Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me. I run into money problems around date 3 or 4, but I have no problem paying for the first few dates. If a woman does not understand I am a student and does not find my cheap, creative dates thrilling, she is not the one for me, though I am fully aware that in 1.5 years when I am making > $100,000 a year and driving a BMW, she would be a match. The point is that you have less dating options with less money, but that is no reason not to date, as there are still options.
Sunblast Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 Oooh, oppath, SoCal represent! What-what! It's def. true, dates are easier with more money. Not even 'cause girls are gold diggers, just 'cause you can actually do fun things.
jcster Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 It's not just paying either. I don't hold open doors, do heavy lifting or give up my seat to women on the bus and train. I treat women the same way I would treat a man So, you're saying you don't do anything nice for anyone, then? Bully for you. and if all men did the same thing maybe we can start winning. Winning what, exactly? Who wins at life? Do we get our trophy posthumously? So, you're saying that if I live my life worrying about whether I'm getting screwed over and obsessively hating over 1/2 the human race....I win? hipf*ckinhurray. Maybe if you weren't so worried about losing, you wouldn't be such a loser.
oppath Posted November 20, 2007 Posted November 20, 2007 Oooh, oppath, SoCal represent! What-what! It's def. true, dates are easier with more money. Not even 'cause girls are gold diggers, just 'cause you can actually do fun things. You can do fun things making $25k a year too, but you have more flexibility when on a date to say "oh, let's go here." You can afford dinner AND the theater. Nonetheless, most woman are fine with me being a grad student. I know I'll have more options in another year or so, but there are plenty of options. There are many women out there who would date someone getting an advanced degree if they have a high payoff in the near future. If you are poor and don't have upside, I'd say women would choose the guy with money in general, but being poor is no reason not to date, you just have to date WISELY. That means invite her to throw the frisbee in the park and then get icecream. If a woman turns that down because she wants to be taken to dinner, she's not the one for you. Now, if after 3-4 dates you haven't gone to dinner, fair enough, but if you get that far, she'll understand your financial status and likely pay her share or say "I've got you next time" if you pick up the check. If she doesn't get you next time, drop her. I've done that to plenty of women. When I had money last summer, it was our 3rd date, I had paid for all of the first two, though nothing exceptional, and I had purchased the baseball tickets and paid for parking and round 1 of drinks. She didn't bring me a beer when she went to the bathroom and came back with a water. NEXT!!!
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