shadowplay Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 squeak, why must you be so logical? What you say is true (you are very wise). BUT...your "Uh-oh-this one sentence is proof he does not love me as much as he could, and had in fact loved another more than me which means I am not getting everything he has to offer, therefore settling" sums up how I feel at the moment. I don't like that he had such intense feelings for her. Had he been upfront about it, I wouldn't have cared (correction, it wouldn't have bothered me to the extent it has)...I would have been prepared. This is why I insist on full and complete disclosure - nothing can hurt you if you are equipped with knowledge. I protect myself beforehand by knowing what to expect. Those emails, that one in particular, caught me off guard and shattered a small piece of something deep within. I want to ask him...but as I said, I am far too proud. In the email she refers to something he said (as I've been saying in this here thread)...she asks him to remember when he told her "I have never loved anyone as much as I love you...not even anyone in my family!" (I'm paraphrasing...but this was more or less it). He has NEVER said this to me. In fact, he and I have talked about where family fits in our lives and I know that I don't expect to be put ahead of his family (I don't put him ahead of my beloved family). He said to me once that he can see me being at the top of his list (I'm paraphrasing)... Gah, this sounds like some sort of business transaction... So why the heck would he say this to her? He has told me that he loves me a great deal and that I am his "everything"... But ugh...the semantics of it all get to me. He has told me on one occasion that next to his family, he loves me a great deal (and yet, in his youthful exuberance, he told HER she was NUMBER freakin' ONE)... Had he not told me this and had I not read that email, I'd be fine. Being the neurotic freak that I have become as of late, I asked one of my best friends to evaluate what he said to her and compare it to what he said to me (so "love you more than my family" vs. "you're everything to me")...and after I answered "yes" to her asking me if I wanted her to be "brutally honest" she said that his statement to her is more meaningful (after all, "everything" is so vague...what is "everything"...whereas family is specific, and you know it's intense when he says he loves you more than his family). I understand how utterly crazy this is all sounding - how petty I am being. But I cannot tell my heart to be rational at the moment. It seems to want to further analyze and dissect... For what purpose, I don't know. Thank you for your very insightful post squeak! What he said to his ex would bother me too, but I honestly don't think it means anything. The most likely explanation is that he doesn't want to tell you the same things he said to her because he knows that love didn't last. It sounds like he just got carried away in the moment when he made that declaration and it wasn't really genuine. Now he's wiser and chooses his words more carefully. In other words, what he said to her he didn't really mean -- it was probably something he said thoughtlessly in a moment of excitement.
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 18, 2007 Author Posted November 18, 2007 What he said to his ex would bother me too, but I honestly don't think it means anything. The most likely explanation is that he doesn't want to tell you the same things he said to her because he knows that love didn't last. It sounds like he just got carried away in the moment when he made that declaration and it wasn't really genuine. Now he's wiser and chooses his words more carefully. In other words, what he said to her he didn't really mean -- it was probably something he said thoughtlessly in a moment of excitement. Yeah, I'm starting to allow myself to realize that this may actually be the reason. I know that he felt horribly about the way things ended with her (he felt guilty for not being able to give her the happy ending she wanted). Thank you for your post shadow - it helped put into words what I've been thinking in my head.
Ariadne Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Hey Ocean, Interesting thread. That's good that you are feeling that way. That means you love him, otherwise you woudn't care. Be glad for that. Understand that those feelings he had for her are the same feelings he has for you. It was you he was talking about then. Yes, it's those loving feelings that people keep inside that want to come out. Obviously they were directed at the wrong person. Now he has found you again. Ariadne
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 18, 2007 Author Posted November 18, 2007 Hey Ocean, Interesting thread. That's good that you are feeling that way. That means you love him, otherwise you woudn't care. Be glad for that. Understand that those feelings he had for her are the same feelings he has for you. It was you he was talking about then. Yes, it's those loving feelings that people keep inside that want to come out. Obviously they were directed at the wrong person. Now he has found you again. Ariadne How do you mean, Ariadne? I know he's thought about me over the years but it was never in an intense, "God I love her" sort of way. When we broke up as kids, he said it took him about a year to get over it. After that he began dating different people. My feelings are running around like headless chickens in my head. I'm becoming something of a drag... I ask him silly, insecure questions and want to stop! Thanks for your post Ariadne. As always, it left me a little puzzled...
Ariadne Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Well, You are too focused on the details. Those are feelings of love that people have inside. They were coming through at the wrong person, that's all. Ariadne
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 18, 2007 Author Posted November 18, 2007 Well, You are too focused on the details. Those are feelings of love that people have inside. They were coming through at the wrong person, that's all. Ariadne As much as I'd love to think he was thinking of me when he wrote what he did...or that it was a subconscious thing...I don't think that was the case. He was smitten with her at the start. I don't like sharing any part of his heart - even if I wasn't in the picture at the time. But whatever. I have to be a big girl and get over it. Thanks for clarifying.
Ariadne Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Hi, As much as I'd love to think he was thinking of me when he wrote what he did...or that it was a subconscious thing...I don't think that was the case. No, he wasn't thinking of you. I doesn't matter: he was smitten, he was thinking, it was me, it was her, he met me, not met me. Those are details. You still don't understand. Ariadne
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 18, 2007 Author Posted November 18, 2007 Hi, As much as I'd love to think he was thinking of me when he wrote what he did...or that it was a subconscious thing...I don't think that was the case. No, he wasn't thinking of you. I doesn't matter: he was smitten, he was thinking, it was me, it was her, he met me, not met me. Those are details. You still don't understand. Ariadne You are right, I don't understand. I'm more confused now...
sb129 Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 What he said to his ex would bother me too, but I honestly don't think it means anything. The most likely explanation is that he doesn't want to tell you the same things he said to her because he knows that love didn't last. It sounds like he just got carried away in the moment when he made that declaration and it wasn't really genuine. Now he's wiser and chooses his words more carefully. In other words, what he said to her he didn't really mean -- it was probably something he said thoughtlessly in a moment of excitement. I totally agree with this, OB, you know this is what I was trying to tell you the other day. I think that Ariadnes first post is right too- you obviously care about eachother, hence all the passion and, dare I say it, anguish! relax and enjoy him, the love is there, you need to nurture it out of eachother so you can see it- that will make you more secure.
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 18, 2007 Author Posted November 18, 2007 I totally agree with this, OB, you know this is what I was trying to tell you the other day. I think that Ariadnes first post is right too- you obviously care about eachother, hence all the passion and, dare I say it, anguish! relax and enjoy him, the love is there, you need to nurture it out of eachother so you can see it- that will make you more secure. sb! I thought I had scared you off with my almost manic typing the other day... I was snippy with him a few days ago (for no apparent reason). We were on the phone very late into the night (he had work the next morning). Poor guy didn't even know why I was annoyed. I have faith that I can work past this. Unfortunately, my personality is such that it'll take me a while to REALLY get it out of my system. I don't want to become an endless doubter. Hope your party went well (and that there was lots of flashing).
sb129 Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Oh it wasn't that kind of event! No, not scared off at all! Flashing indeed. Get your mind out of the gutter. I am feeling a bit jaded today though. Are you nocturnal or something? I don't really understand Ariadnes second post. I think you guys should aim to draw a line under this by the end of the weekend. Its a good target, otherwise you are going to be rehashing it do death with no end in sight!
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 18, 2007 Author Posted November 18, 2007 Oh it wasn't that kind of event! No, not scared off at all! Flashing indeed. Get your mind out of the gutter. I am feeling a bit jaded today though. Are you nocturnal or something? I don't really understand Ariadnes second post. I think you guys should aim to draw a line under this by the end of the weekend. Its a good target, otherwise you are going to be rehashing it do death with no end in sight! Why are you feeling jaded? If you wanna discuss, come on IM. I promise to be good this time. Also, yes, I'm nocturnal. Despite having exams, a paper and a 3 hour presentation, I choose instead to stare blankly at my very bright screen. And I don't get Ariadne's post either. I'm hoping that she's psychic and KNOWS that he was really thinking of me when he wrote what he did. As for rehashing it with him...the guy doesn't know this is an issue. I suspect that I'll be bringing this up when he's here to visit me (after he's downed a fair share of Heinekens). Is that wrong?
Ariadne Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Oh, And I don't get Ariadne's post either. Well, he wanted to love. He had loving feelings in his heart. He wanted true love. What simply happened is that he expressed "those" feelings at the wrong person. Or the person that felt right at the time. You are his true love. Those thoughts were really meant to you. (Yes, no, not OB, that girl I dated in April 2000 or whenever, but in the big picture, they have found the right recipient, relax) Ariadne
Trialbyfire Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Oh, And I don't get Ariadne's post either. Well, he wanted to love. He had loving feelings in his heart. He wanted true love. What simply happened is that he expressed "those" feelings at the wrong person. Or the person that felt right at the time. You are his true love. Those thoughts were really meant to you. (Yes, no, not OB, that girl I dated in April 2000 or whenever, but in the big picture, they have found the right recipient, relax) Ariadne An interesting perspective Ariadne, of which much of it is probably true. We all have those moments of infatuation, where we're looking for love and think we might have found it. More than enough times, it's not real, just endorphin highs. After 8.5 months, where the honeymoon period has on average, expired, as sb said, relax and enjoy it OB. She is an Ex, you are not.
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 19, 2007 Author Posted November 19, 2007 Oh, And I don't get Ariadne's post either. Well, he wanted to love. He had loving feelings in his heart. He wanted true love. What simply happened is that he expressed "those" feelings at the wrong person. Or the person that felt right at the time. You are his true love. Those thoughts were really meant to you. (Yes, no, not OB, that girl I dated in April 2000 or whenever, but in the big picture, they have found the right recipient, relax) Ariadne My point is that his energies were directed at HER. Him having written what he did to her (I presume it was written as she makes mention of a card he had given her) makes me wonder if I am his "true love" as he has professed since we got back together. I have become somewhat preoccupied with the details of their relationship (did it last for a year or two years, exactly when did he begin to fall out of love with her, what else has he said to her, does she still love him, etc)... It has become something of a sick, twisted mental exercise of mine. The way I'm going on...you'd think I were a BS. I need to stop. I need to get a friggin' grip.
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 19, 2007 Author Posted November 19, 2007 An interesting perspective Ariadne, of which much of it is probably true. We all have those moments of infatuation, where we're looking for love and think we might have found it. More than enough times, it's not real, just endorphin highs. After 8.5 months, where the honeymoon period has on average, expired, as sb said, relax and enjoy it OB. She is an Ex, you are not. But can infatuation get someone to bellow such extreme emotional confessions? That she means more than his family! UGH. And while she is an ex, it FEELS like she's the "other woman". Not because he won't let go (hell, he forgot all about it a long time ago...he can't even remember the details of the relationship) - no, it is my wandering mind that insists on keeping her a part of this relationship.
Trialbyfire Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 But can infatuation get someone to bellow such extreme emotional confessions? That she means more than his family! UGH. And while she is an ex, it FEELS like she's the "other woman". Not because he won't let go (hell, he forgot all about it a long time ago...he can't even remember the details of the relationship) - no, it is my wandering mind that insists on keeping her a part of this relationship. Come on O-B. When the fire burns hotly down below, people say and do stupid things. It's happened to me numerous times where guys do the big confession. Even real proposals v. the joking online kind. I've only told one person mistakenly that I loved them. In hindsight, more response to someone else's declaration and momentary infatuation, than reality. Stupid me.
katiebour Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 OB, I know how it can feel to find reminders of your SO's past. None of us really like to think about the person we love loving other people. My b/f has been engaged twice- he bought a ring for a third but the relationship ended before he had a chance to propose. Now, almost 2 and a half years into our relationship, him about to turn 32, and me 28, some days I feel absolutely ready to be married. On the other hand, my b/f is extremely gun-shy about the marriage thing. He's even nervous to say "I love you-" he's said it once, about 4-5 months ago, while I was in bed, falling asleep. I think he was maybe hoping that I had fallen asleep. Now the last g/f that my b/f had lived far, far away, and they had a long-distance relationship for 4 years. He was SO sure she was the one- he made a video for her to Richard Marx's "Right Here Waiting." He has all sorts of pix from his trip to visit her (including some nude ones right after coitus) and also a homemade videotape of their sexual relations. He lost most of the computer stuff to a crash- I wasn't too heartbroken. He hid the pix away where I wouldn't see them- but then I go looking through that cabinet and "oh, what's this?" The videotape is in his car glovebox. He won't get rid of any of it. He says he keeps it to remind himself of the mistakes he's made. Personally I think he's keeping it around because he doesn't trust me or our relationship, and why get rid of some perfectly good memories of a fantasy relationship for our relationship, which may not last? I think in some ways he idealizes that LDR- it's so much easier to be in love and yearning and happy when you don't have to deal with the shared nitty-gritty of rent, bills, etc. I have seen all of this (even the videotape) and I've come to terms with it. My b/f had a life and relationships before we met. He had people he loved and girls he wanted to spend the rest of his life with. If they hadn't broken up with him he would probably still be married to one of them. But of course, I had a life, relationships, and people that I wanted to marry as well. My own personal preference is to get rid of any and all mementos of past relationships- but my b/f, whatever his reasons are, is different. I just have to live in the here and now and accept that this is where we are, who we are, and right now I am the woman that he loves. I think about my b/f's exes too. He's friends with several of them (not the fiancees) and one in particular calls ALL the time. But she loves the two of us together and constantly says "You're the person he's been waiting for all this time- you two are so good together." In the end, I've just let it go. The person that loved those other women was a younger, more idealistic, more naiive version of the man I love now. I have to deal with all of the baggage from those relationships, and there are some days when I just wonder "why couldn't I have been the girl he proposed to- I never would have hurt him like that." But this is the here and now, and I simply have to take him as he is. So- here's my advice. You've read the emails- now let them go. Delete them and let there be an end to it. You can't compete with a relationship several years dead. Whether his feelings for her were stronger than they were for you- they ended. In the end this sounds like a "You loved her more than you love me" kind of situation. Maybe he did- maybe he didn't. Regardless the relationship didn't work and now he's with you. He's given you a committment and a ring. If you're happy with him, and with the relationship, then anything that came before is nothing but history.
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 21, 2007 Author Posted November 21, 2007 Come on O-B. When the fire burns hotly down below, people say and do stupid things. It's happened to me numerous times where guys do the big confession. Even real proposals v. the joking online kind. I've only told one person mistakenly that I loved them. In hindsight, more response to someone else's declaration and momentary infatuation, than reality. Stupid me. I must be naive TBF. His fire burned ever so hotly for someone else - so much so that he felt the earth move (enough to write those words). Yes, as you can see, I am totally moving past this. I love how mature I've become! It looks good on me, don't you think?
Trialbyfire Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 I must be naive TBF. His fire burned ever so hotly for someone else - so much so that he felt the earth move (enough to write those words). Yes, as you can see, I am totally moving past this. I love how mature I've become! It looks good on me, don't you think? O-B, you are being stubborn. But I will still respect you in the morning. He's allowed to have a past, isn't he? It could be worse. He could have used the same words. I've seen that happen and oh lord, ouchies... You know better than this. He's with you and she's nothing but a memory. He realized that he didn't love her so she ended up to be toast on a stick. Y'know?
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 21, 2007 Author Posted November 21, 2007 katie - thanks for your thought out post. Much appreciated! On the other hand, my b/f is extremely gun-shy about the marriage thing. He's even nervous to say "I love you-" he's said it once, about 4-5 months ago, while I was in bed, falling asleep. I think he was maybe hoping that I had fallen asleep. So he hasn't said those three words nor has he proposed to you? While he did both with his previous gfs? If this is true, may I ask why you continue seeing him? I ask this as someone who is incredibly irritated and annoyed in her current situation (please don't think I'm judging you...). Now the last g/f that my b/f had lived far, far away, and they had a long-distance relationship for 4 years. He was SO sure she was the one- he made a video for her to Richard Marx's "Right Here Waiting." He has all sorts of pix from his trip to visit her (including some nude ones right after coitus) and also a homemade videotape of their sexual relations. OK, you are now my official hero. I would go berserk. Really. You are obviously a much more composed person. I don't think I would handle this easily. He lost most of the computer stuff to a crash- I wasn't too heartbroken. He hid the pix away where I wouldn't see them- but then I go looking through that cabinet and "oh, what's this?" The videotape is in his car glovebox. He won't get rid of any of it. He says he keeps it to remind himself of the mistakes he's made. Yes, maybe he is actually telling the truth...BUT it must make you feel a little second bestish, no? Personally I think he's keeping it around because he doesn't trust me or our relationship, and why get rid of some perfectly good memories of a fantasy relationship for our relationship, which may not last? I think in some ways he idealizes that LDR- it's so much easier to be in love and yearning and happy when you don't have to deal with the shared nitty-gritty of rent, bills, etc. Totally agree with this! This are always so much rosier when far away. Always. I have seen all of this (even the videotape) and I've come to terms with it. My b/f had a life and relationships before we met. He had people he loved and girls he wanted to spend the rest of his life with. If they hadn't broken up with him he would probably still be married to one of them. Yes, this is what the rational brain tells me. Apparently. But of course, I had a life, relationships, and people that I wanted to marry as well. My own personal preference is to get rid of any and all mementos of past relationships- but my b/f, whatever his reasons are, is different. I just have to live in the here and now and accept that this is where we are, who we are, and right now I am the woman that he loves. You are more like my bf in this case. He has gotten rid of the pics/emails, etc since dating me (well he got rid of of the photos last month...and the emails that HE has, he has deleted). I have deleted most of my pics with my ex - but our IM conversations and emails are not things I can part with. He was my best friend. I think about my b/f's exes too. He's friends with several of them (not the fiancees) and one in particular calls ALL the time. But she loves the two of us together and constantly says "You're the person he's been waiting for all this time- you two are so good together." In the end, I've just let it go. The person that loved those other women was a younger, more idealistic, more naiive version of the man I love now. I have to deal with all of the baggage from those relationships, and there are some days when I just wonder "why couldn't I have been the girl he proposed to- I never would have hurt him like that." But this is the here and now, and I simply have to take him as he is. I'm cool with my bf being friends with an ex (he's actually maintains minimal contact with the ex in question). But I'd have a major problem with the baggage. What he wrote to her in that card...he has forgotten about it (or wants to). I can't. I just can't. Perhaps I'm such an egoist that I can't let it go... I don't know. I wish I were more level headed (like you are being)... So- here's my advice. You've read the emails- now let them go. Delete them and let there be an end to it. You can't compete with a relationship several years dead. Whether his feelings for her were stronger than they were for you- they ended. That's what is bothering me. Were his feelings stronger for her? He claimed (when we got together again) that he's NEVER felt anything remotely close to what he feels for me (and he has only affirmed it over time). So my mind is confused...b/w what he's said to me and what I've read (again, not to sound like a broken record, but why has he not said this to me?). In the end this sounds like a "You loved her more than you love me" kind of situation. Maybe he did- maybe he didn't. Regardless the relationship didn't work and now he's with you. He's given you a committment and a ring. If you're happy with him, and with the relationship, then anything that came before is nothing but history. There is no ring yet. I don't know if we'll make it that far, to be honest. I have issues of my own (independent of this whole "his ex" one). I still cry over my own ex and how things ended with him... I must sound very childish. My ranting and raving about something he wrote to her years ago. I don't care that he has not said this to me. What bothers me is that he said it to her...thereby making it appear as if his feelings, albeit briefly, were stronger for her than me. I read my posts and understand how utterly pathetic this is becoming.
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 21, 2007 Author Posted November 21, 2007 O-B, you are being stubborn. But I will still respect you in the morning. He's allowed to have a past, isn't he? It could be worse. He could have used the same words. I've seen that happen and oh lord, ouchies... You know better than this. He's with you and she's nothing but a memory. He realized that he didn't love her so she ended up to be toast on a stick. Y'know? You are right! Bah...you are right. I'm a mule. And yes, he is totally allowed to have a past. I admit that I'm new to this whole "ex" business. BUT this is about what he told me...it CONTRADICTS what I've read. My brain is rejecting what he said to me. I KNOW that he loves me. That he wants to be with ME. But he wanted to be with her (for that short period) in a much more intense way (as evidenced by his words). I want so badly to just ask him...to juice up and then face the demon head on. I'm not a big fan of letting things fester. Oh, did I mention that I'll be stocking up on some alcohol - you know, for his impending trip. There will be soliloquies that night! That I know...
Trialbyfire Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 Oh, did I mention that I'll be stocking up on some alcohol - you know, for his impending trip. There will be soliloquies that night! That I know... Doubt it. You'll be otherwise occupied... I want so badly to just ask him...to juice up and then face the demon head on. I'm not a big fan of letting things fester. You know what? I fully agree with this. Passivity never gets you answers. You have my blessing.
Author Ocean-Blue Posted November 21, 2007 Author Posted November 21, 2007 Doubt it. You'll be otherwise occupied... You know what? I fully agree with this. Passivity never gets you answers. You have my blessing. Good. So if he ends up naked and shivering outside on a cold December Canadian winter...I will not be chided, right? Also, I suspect I may spend a sexy night at the ER. That should help me get over the issues. Watching them try to bring life back to his limbs. OK, that's not funny. I don't want him to freeze... I think getting plastered and then unleashing my innermost emotional grievances should suffice. All of which will be done in lingerie of course.
Trialbyfire Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 Good. So if he ends up naked and shivering outside on a cold December Canadian winter...I will not be chided, right? Also, I suspect I may spend a sexy night at the ER. That should help me get over the issues. Watching them try to bring life back to his limbs. OK, that's not funny. I don't want him to freeze... I think getting plastered and then unleashing my innermost emotional grievances should suffice. All of which will be done in lingerie of course. Make up sex. Mucho bueno...
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