Is this grounds for breaking up?

[shadowplay]

As those of you following my threads know, I've been extremely insecure and obsessive since the start of my relationship with this guy. Often I've overreacted to little things as though I'm looking for problems where there are none. Well, recently somebody pointed out to me that I'm so focused on how my boyfriend feels about me that I'm not really examining how I feel about him. Perhaps my insecurity is justified on some level if it's a manifestation of my ambivalence toward him. I've been mulling this over the past week. Finally, I think I've pinpointed what bothers me so much.

 

He's very immature. He's 23 (24 in a month), but developmentally he's more like an 18 year old. He kind of floats through life, and he's not a good planner. He's only had one gf before me and that lasted less than six months (she broke things off, but he said he didn't have strong feelings for her). He says this is the first time he's been in love. His immaturity manifests in our relationship as a lack of attentiveness and inappropriate slips of tongue. When he's with me, he's very present, affectionate and loving, but when he's away he sometimes forgets to do basic things that a boyfriend should do. Here's an example. Every weekend he takes a five hour bus to see me on his own initiative (which I really appreciate), but sometimes he's

lackadaisical about letting me know when he'll be getting in ahead of time.

 

Last week he lost his cellphone so he didn't have his phone on him when he was on the bus. Typically he'll give me a call in the afternoon or early in the evening to let me know when exactly he's getting in. Because he was phoneless he didn't contact me until he finally arrived in my city at about 11 pm. I could have gone out with a friend or something (and probably should have), but ended up waiting around for him because I had no idea when he was arriving. He could have easily found some other way of reaching me earlier like calling me from a payphone when the bus made a stop or emailing me before he left. When I confronted him (politely) about it he seemed genuinely apologetic and surprised. I get the sense these basic courtesies don't even occur to him. When I ask him about it, he usually corrects his behavior the next time around and doesn't repeat it, but the behavioral patterns bother me.

 

Here's another example. I don't remember how it came up but over the weekend he mentioned to me he had a "mini crush" on this girl who works at a restaurant he sometimes goes to with his family. I got upset, and he said "Why does it matter? You're the girl I love; I just have a mini crush on her." That may be the case, and it's true that I sometimes find myself attracted to other guys, but I would never volunteer this. I just don't understand why he told me. It shows a basic lack of consideration and maturity.

 

Another issue is our holiday plans. He asked me what I was doing for Thanksgiving. I said I'm going to NY to see my extended family (where he lives). He said he had no real plans and I invited him to come along, but he said he might just end up going to Maryland to visit his grandparents and friends. To be fair, I warned him that my grandparents weren't especially nice people so that might have been part of it. I asked him if his parents will be there in Maryland and he said no. Then I asked him what his Christmas plans were and he said he had none, but might go up to Maryland again. Now why would he prioritize visiting his friends and grandparents over spending time with his girlfriend and parents? It makes no sense.

 

Finally, and maybe I'm nitpicking here, but I kind of question his level of commitment. He told me recently over im "this is the first time I've fallen in love." Is it just me or does "first" seem to imply our relationship is but one in a long procession? I sort of get the sense he sees what we have as this puppy love, teenage thing that couldn't possibly be permanent. I don't question his love for me -- he's very vocal about it and shows it strongly when we're together and by visiting me so often -- but I do question his level of commitment and emotional maturity. Then again he has suggested on two occasions that we move in together, but I think this is a sign of his impulsivity and immaturity more than anything.

 

The worst thing is I love him so, so much. I've never felt this way toward another guy. I don't want to lose him, and I know it would be excrutiatingly painful for me to break up with him. But at the same time I feel like I should be looking out for myself. I just don't know what to do. I love him so much. This is really killing me.

 

Keep in mind I rarely initiate things with him, so I don't see how I could train him into changing his behavior. He just seems like a passive person.

[squeak]

After reading the should i break up post over the possible extended of the long distance, I recall thinking that now, you were just looking for any reason because *something* is making you want to bolt.

 

Can't live with him, can't live without him, sounds like.

 

First-my analysis-I really don't like that he mentioned a mini crush to you. I knew a guy (not dated-just a peer) who was vocal about his meanngless mini crushes, in fact was proud of them! But was quite vocal about his love for his GF. Well, he ended up cheating on his GF as soon as one of his mini crushes made herself available, and I don't know what happened to them , but I don't think he told her. It was all pretty awful. So, I don't like that he is crushing on anyone, especially in such early stages of your relationship.

 

As for the rest, only you know your threshold, but I would consider fitting you in to his holidays should be a priority and it wouldn't sit well with me or how i felt about him if he was okay with spending time apart.

 

I don't feel right he didn't ask you to join him over xmas. I get the sense he is marvelling at the feeling you have put in him, and is maybe a bit removed from it while examinng it like a child would a curious new toy.

 

I don't think it is just his age, which implies things will not get better with time. I will tell you this: you are going to be his learning experience on how to do things right, and you will become more attached but equally resentful as you *break him in* and all the hurts and thoughtlessness piles on while he learns on your time and emotions.

 

I wouldn't normally pipe in so strongly but him saying that mini crush confession is wrong, and doesn't bode well for potential. Not just because it was hurting-how could he not know that-but because it is a real person-not some fictional joke or actress on TV.

 

The way I see it-you are also interviewing him for what he is offering you. Chritmas time is the make or break time for me, meaning if you have been together more than 4 mnths and he has not made a concerted effort to show you he wants to let you in to his family life-then that is a message. *Proceed with caution at your own risk*

 

I will tell you something else-I think you are so ambivalent and want to bolt because you are not sure if he is showing you enough consideration and commitment to the future that you would want by this point.

 

That's my $20 bucks (hey- my opinions are worth much more than 2 cents!)

[Ariadne]

Well,

 

I think that you have come to the conclusion that you really don't like this guy very much, he sucks, and you should dump him.

 

Even tough he loves you so much, he is really too immature.

 

He shouldn't be doing all those trips to see you, it's a lot of time, and maybe you should spare him from doing all of that anyway.

 

Ariadne

[shadowplay]

Well,

 

I think that you have come to the conclusion that you really don't like this guy very much, he sucks, and you should dump him.

 

Even tough he loves you so much, he is really too immature.

 

He shouldn't be doing all those trips to see you, it's a lot of time, and maybe you should spare him from doing all of that anyway.

 

Ariadne

 

 

Maybe you're right. But I just can't let go! Gah...

[Star Gazer]

...you were just looking for any reason because *something* is making you want to bolt.

 

I agree. *Something* is making you want to bolt. But if you want my opinion, I don't think any of the reasons you listed in this thread are "grounds" for breaking up. I think you're looking for reasons, SEARCHING for them even. But I don't understand why you do this given your claims that you love him oh so much...and he's clearly putting effort into seeing you and being with you. A dude who's not willing to put in the effort wouldn't travel 5 hours each way each weekend to see you.

 

I know where you're coming from regarding wanting to be with him over the holidays, but after contemplating that very issue today, in all honesty I don't think you've been dating long enough to warrant your position that he should choose you over his grandparents and friends. If he's anything like me, his grandparents and friends are his chosen family and who he'd choose to spend the holidays with. Just because you're his GF of 4 months doesn't mean the holidays should revolve around you.

 

The "mini-crush" comment was a silly thing to get so bent out of shape over, IMO. I have like 50 mini-crushes, including the produce guy near my BF's place. He jokingly refers to him as my other BF.

 

The "this is the FIRST time I've ever been in love" comment was ALSO silly to get upset over. It sounds like you're upset just because he didn't insert the word "and last" after the word "first." Do you honestly think it's reasonable to be upset that he didn't phrase his very sweet sentiments exactly the way you would have wanted him to?

 

Honestly, Shadow... you sound like you're almost trying to be this guy's mom. He's 23. Guess what? He's SUPPOSED to be immature to a degree. He's SUPPOSED to be still in the figuring-life-out stage.

 

I think you need to move on, Shadow. For one reason or another, you're not comfortable in this relationship. But be honest with yourself, and get real. It's not his fault. The "grounds" here are not his doing. They're your own gut.

[Ariadne]

Ok,

 

Maybe you're right. But I just can't let go! Gah...

 

Maybe until after the holidays you can do him a favor.

 

Hey!

 

Ariadne

[shadowplay]

After reading the should i break up post over the possible extended of the long distance, I recall thinking that now, you were just looking for any reason because *something* is making you want to bolt.

 

Can't live with him, can't live without him, sounds like.

 

First-my analysis-I really don't like that he mentioned a mini crush to you. I knew a guy (not dated-just a peer) who was vocal about his meanngless mini crushes, in fact was proud of them! But was quite vocal about his love for his GF. Well, he ended up cheating on his GF as soon as one of his mini crushes made herself available, and I don't know what happened to them , but I don't think he told her. It was all pretty awful. So, I don't like that he is crushing on anyone, especially in such early stages of your relationship.

 

As for the rest, only you know your threshold, but I would consider fitting you in to his holidays should be a priority and it wouldn't sit well with me or how i felt about him if he was okay with spending time apart.

 

I don't feel right he didn't ask you to join him over xmas. I get the sense he is marvelling at the feeling you have put in him, and is maybe a bit removed from it while examinng it like a child would a curious new toy.

 

I don't think it is just his age, which implies things will not get better with time. I will tell you this: you are going to be his learning experience on how to do things right, and you will become more attached but equally resentful as you *break him in* and all the hurts and thoughtlessness piles on while he learns on your time and emotions.

 

I wouldn't normally pipe in so strongly but him saying that mini crush confession is wrong, and doesn't bode well for potential. Not just because it was hurting-how could he not know that-but because it is a real person-not some fictional joke or actress on TV.

 

The way I see it-you are also interviewing him for what he is offering you. Chritmas time is the make or break time for me, meaning if you have been together more than 4 mnths and he has not made a concerted effort to show you he wants to let you in to his family life-then that is a message. *Proceed with caution at your own risk*

 

I will tell you something else-I think you are so ambivalent and want to bolt because you are not sure if he is showing you enough consideration and commitment to the future that you would want by this point.

 

That's my $20 bucks (hey- my opinions are worth much more than 2 cents!)

 

I trust him not to cheat on me -- mostly because he is so ethical to a fault and feels guilty/beats himself up about the smallest things -- but I'm still disturbed by the fact that he told me something hurtful and was oblivious to why it would upset me.

[Racquel Colette]

I have to say that when I read about that he didn't call ahead as to when exactly he would be arriving, when he had left his cell phone at home, I thought you were overreacting. I mean a 5-hour busride every weekend is a lot for a guy.

However, when he mentioned a mini-crush...well, sorry, but I don't think this is going to work out betwixt the two of you.

I pretty much agree with everything squeak said. You do have good reason to be doubtful, especially the minicrush and not dying to have you spend Christmas and Thanksgiving with you and his family.

[shadowplay]

I agree. *Something* is making you want to bolt. But if you want my opinion, I don't think any of the reasons you listed in this thread are "grounds" for breaking up. I think you're looking for reasons, SEARCHING for them even. But I don't understand why you do this given your claims that you love him oh so much...and he's clearly putting effort into seeing you and being with you. A dude who's not willing to put in the effort wouldn't travel 5 hours each way each weekend to see you.

 

I know where you're coming from regarding wanting to be with him over the holidays, but after contemplating that very issue today, in all honesty I don't think you've been dating long enough to warrant your position that he should choose you over his grandparents and friends. If he's anything like me, his grandparents and friends are his chosen family and who he'd choose to spend the holidays with. Just because you're his GF of 4 months doesn't mean the holidays should revolve around you.

 

The "mini-crush" comment was a silly thing to get so bent out of shape over, IMO. I have like 50 mini-crushes, including the produce guy near my BF's place. He jokingly refers to him as my other BF.

 

The "this is the FIRST time I've ever been in love" comment was ALSO silly to get upset over. It sounds like you're upset just because he didn't insert the word "and last" after the word "first." Do you honestly think it's reasonable to be upset that he didn't phrase his very sweet sentiments exactly the way you would have wanted him to?

 

Honestly, Shadow... you sound like you're almost trying to be this guy's mom. He's 23. Guess what? He's SUPPOSED to be immature to a degree. He's SUPPOSED to be still in the figuring-life-out stage.

 

I think you need to move on, Shadow. For one reason or another, you're not comfortable in this relationship. But be honest with yourself, and get real. It's not his fault. The "grounds" here are not his doing. They're your own gut.

 

But isn't it possible my gut is onto something that's hard to verbalize or narrow down to a few examples? Something just doesn't sit well with me about him. I don't think it's just me because I've never felt this level of discomfort before in a relationship.

 

I really do love him, but I'm trying to protect myself. I know he has the potential to really hurt me, while with other guys I could have cared less.

[shadowplay]

Do you guys think it's troubling that he has a minicrush or that he told me about it? Because I often have little crushes or attractions to random guys when I'm in a relationship. I just don't reveal them to my bf.

[Star Gazer]

But isn't it possible my gut is onto something that's hard to verbalize or narrow down to a few examples? Something just doesn't sit well with me about him. I don't think it's just me because I've never felt this level of discomfort before in a relationship.

 

Sure, that was exactly my point. Something feels off to you. But I don't think the reasons you're giving justify those feelings, if that makes sense.

 

I really do love him, but I'm trying to protect myself. I know he has the potential to really hurt me, while with other guys I could have cared less.

 

But on the other hand, when you say things like this, I get to thinking that you're just scared sh*tless of getting hurt, and therefore are looking for and actively searching for problems and issues where there really are none so as to justify to yourself your reasons for running in the other direction. I've been there too, and I struggle with it even now.

 

Look at the big picture. You do this when you talk about him in other people's threads: Are you willing to let that go because after only 4 months he's not yet comfortable with spending the holidays with your family, or you with his? Are you willing to let that go because he made a silly "mini-crush" comment? (I can't wait for the guys to chime in about that one.) Are you really willing to let the guy who travels 5 hours each way every weekend to see you over "this is the first time I've been in love"??

 

Really?

 

Then let it go. But don't assume you'll ever find it again.

[Star Gazer]

Do you guys think it's troubling that he has a minicrush or that he told me about it? Because I often have little crushes or attractions to random guys when I'm in a relationship. I just don't reveal them to my bf.

 

I personally find it MORE healthy that he TOLD you, rather than keep it a secret the way you do. A mini-crush is nothing more than a mini-crush. Are you seriously claiming you don't have a mini-crush on ANYONE?

 

Like I mentioned, I have a mini-crush on the guy who works in the produce section. I'll call him Mark. My BF knows I think Mark is cute. On my way over to my BF's house, he'll say, "Hey babe, will you stop by your other BF's place and pick me up a large white onion? I'm sure he'll help you pick out the perfect one...(giggle)." This is a much better situation than if he asked me to get an onion, and I secretly giggled to myself, "Ooooh, lala, I'm gonna go stare at that 18 year old boy in the produce section, yummy yummy, BF will never know I'm ogling another guy with my eyes..."

[Racquel Colette]

I do think it is odd he brought up this minicrush. He goes to this restaurant with his family, so they probably have this cute thing going with the cute waitress their son has a crush on.

By the way, do his parents even know he has a girlfriend? Just wondering.

Personally I think that if the waitress was hot for him, he'd dump you in a second. I'm sorry but it really seems that way.

[shadowplay]

I do think it is odd he brought up this minicrush. He goes to this restaurant with his family, so they probably have this cute thing going with the cute waitress their son has a crush on.

By the way, do his parents even know he has a girlfriend? Just wondering.

Personally I think that if the waitress was hot for him, he'd dump you in a second. I'm sorry but it really seems that way.

 

Yes, his parents know he has a girlfriend. I met them about a month and a half in and I see them all the time. He said they've been really rooting for our relationship. I'm not so sure about your last sentence. He's a pretty honest, ethical person.

[squeak]

Well, I broke up with a BF once who made *breast squeezing motions* (hands went out grabbing melons in the air) and like an "mmmm mm" sound, when a certain actress appeared in a movie, so keep in mind-That's just me.

[shadowplay]

He also had a crush on me before he knew me, so I dunno -- it just seems like crushes on girls pretty easily.

[shadowplay]

Well, I broke up with a BF once who made *breast squeezing motions* (hands went out grabbing melons in the air) and like an "mmmm mm" sound, when a certain actress appeared in a movie, so keep in mind-That's just me.

 

:lmao:

[Racquel Colette]

Yes, his parents know he has a girlfriend. I met them about a month and a half in and I see them all the time. He said they've been really rooting for our relationship. I'm not so sure about your last sentence. He's a pretty honest, ethical person.

 

Yes but a lot of men who cheat are ethical to their girlfriends and such. There is a reason he mentioned a minicrush. He is definitely leaning towards not thinking of you as the "forever" one.

[squeak]

Shadowplay-do you think you may have an anxiety attachment disorder?

Something to do with feelings of ambivalence and going between like and dislike depending on if the person is in your presence or not. Something like that.

 

I get the feeling you'll be really sad if you do break up, it is still a live wire for you.

 

But Ariadne thinks you really don't like him enough. And RC agrees with me. I don't know if he would cheat or anything, that is just not something that someone whoI want to be into me would say, ideally. And stargazer wants you to think this through clearly, and enjoy him.

 

If you could fix some things -what would they be?

 

next question-can he do it?

 

next question-do you think then you would be happy? Or is something just missing?

[shadowplay]

Shadowplay-do you think you may have an anxiety attachment disorder?

Something to do with feelings of ambivalence and going between like and dislike depending on if the person is in your presence or not. Something like that.

 

I get the feeling you'll be really sad if you do break up, it is still a live wire for you.

 

But Ariadne thinks you really don't like him enough.

 

If you could fix some things -what would they be?

 

next question-can he do it?

 

next question-do you think then you would be happy? Or is something just missing?

 

I haven't heard of that disorder before, but that's interesting. It's possible. I do have a lot of anxiety problems and some depression. I'm on an antidepressant (Effexor) that helps with some of my anxiety and elevates my mood but it's an imperfect drug. I also started taking birth control pills recently (Apri) and it seems to have increased my anxiety.

 

If I could fix something it would be to make him less oblivious/more attentive when he's away. He just seems so clueless in some ways. I get the sense he's absorbed in whatever is right in front of him. If I'm there with him he's fully absorbed in me, but when I'm not there he gets distracted by other things. And I wish he was more sensitive about what to say and what not to say to me. I also wish he was less passive.

 

Whenever I point out something that he's doingthat I don't like he acts really apologetic and immediately fixes the problem, but I don't know know how possible it is for somebody to fix a larger behavioral pattern. I'm going to have a talk with him this weekend about some of these issues and see what happens.

 

If he could somehow fix these behaviors, yes, I believe I would be happy.

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

Personally, I'd be furious about the other-cute-girl comment.

 

You say you feel ambivalent toward him, but then you say you love him like you've never loved anyone before--what do you really feel?

[shadowplay]

Yes but a lot of men who cheat are ethical to their girlfriends and such. There is a reason he mentioned a minicrush. He is definitely leaning towards not thinking of you as the "forever" one.

 

I don't know...awhile back he also mentioned to me that a few girls at his college had shown interest in them but he had sent them emails saying he had a gf back home.

 

Then again, there is one disturbing thing in his history. He told me that when he was sixteen he slept with his best friend's girlfriend (apparently she seduced him). They didn't have sex until she broke up with her boyfriend but they started seeing each other and making out while she was still with him. He said he was a lot less ethical and mature back then, but I dunno..

 

Even at sixteen, that's not something I would have ever done.

[Star Gazer]

If I could fix something it would be to make him less oblivious/more attentive when he's away. He just seems so clueless in some ways. I get the sense he's absorbed in whatever is right in front of him. If I'm there with him he's fully absorbed in me, but when I'm not there he gets distracted by other things. And I wish he was more sensitive about what to say and what not to say to me. I also wish he was less passive.

 

Men are fixers. They like to fix things. When they're into you, they want to make you happy. However, they cannot read your mind.

 

If you want attention while he's away, you have to find a way to let him know that. What type of attention do you want/need? More phone calls? Emails? Next time he calls, thank him for calling and tell him how happy it makes you to get calls from him during the week. Remind him that it's important to have contact and connection even when you're physically apart. If he knows what will make you happy, he'll do it. But as of right now, you don't even know if he's capable...do you? You're just moaning about what he doesn't do that he doesn't know to do.

 

And in exchange, you should ask him if there's anything YOU are doing or not doing that he'd like you to. Perhaps he has needs too...

[shadowplay]

Well, I'm not going to make a firm decision about this until I have a talk with him tomorrow. Can't say I'm looking forward to it. It occurs to me that if I had followed the rule from the start of not getting involved with a flakey guy I could have evaded this whole thing. He showed signs of passivity/flakiness before we started dating and I chose to ignore them (though he was always the initiator). Now it's too late because I'm attached.

 

I'll let you guys know how the talk goes and what my ultimate decision is.

[Star Gazer]

I don't consider traveling 5 HOURS EACH WAY EVERY WEEKEND JUST TO SEE YOU to be passive behavior. But that's just me.