Question for the Married Men who have cheated?

[White Flower]

WF- I have no doubt whatsoever you WILL find your place and be the person YOU want to be. Accepting what you know is not right and being bold enough to make the change to do better, is what real growth is all about! I truly wish you nothing but happiness. I AM proud of you for ending the A and looking out for the best R you can have that is true and honest. That is what we all want. I hope you get it!

 

Much love.

abeliever

Thanks, it means a lot. Some of us OW have joined a challenge to end our As. It's a revolution! We'll all need support.

 

Thanks for yours, abeliever.

[OpenBook]

You have come a long way from when I came on here to where you are today. I congrat you on this. I really look forward to reading your posts.

 

Flower, I'm with abeliever. Your posts are fabulous!! But I'm not convinced that you've really changed... I think it's more that you are gradually returning to the authentic "you" - to the person you really are. It's an inspiring thing to witness!! We're behind you 100%. You Go Girl!!!:bunny:

[White Flower]

Flower, I'm with abeliever. Your posts are fabulous!! But I'm not convinced that you've really changed... I think it's more that you are gradually returning to the authentic "you" - to the person you really are. It's an inspiring thing to witness!! We're behind you 100%. You Go Girl!!!:bunny:

 

I am so ready to cry now, girls. I think you're right. I lost myself for a while. What was I thinking? And just a month ago I was defending myself all over the place!

 

I have found so much perspective here and I am really grateful.

 

OpenBook, your posts are always fabulous and insightful, too. If I'm ever down south, I want to come visit you and share a glass of wine.

 

Abeliever, you are awesome!

 

AnswerPlease, thanks so much for allowing me to find a piece of myself on your thread.

 

Now, does anyone have really good advice on how to formally end it?

[michaelk]

Here comes the boorish man, crashing the ladies' party...

 

I understand most of what you say here, except that you divided everyone right down the middle. Cheaters on the left-noncheaters on the right. But where do I fit in? I had one affair after 25 years of monogomy. I fell in love and it hurts like hell. I have learned a very hard lesson and now am ending the A. I will never do it again because it hurt ME too much.

 

Your situation sounds a lot like mine, although the time frame was 20 years not 25. And as I examine my own experiences and read the stories of others, I'm coming to understand that affairs are not a simple matter of black and white, good vs. bad. Unquestionably, cheating is a terrible way to inflict hurt upon another person, and it can't be justified. But in crossing the line from long-term faithful husband to having an affair, I've been forced to recognize that I'm flawed, that I need to examine and work on myself, and most importantly that I'm a human being and can't expect to be seen as perfect by everyone, because I'm far from it. Being human means sometimes making mistakes, doing bad things, and even hurting people. I've always been a perfectionist and rather judgmental. But I see now that these were defense mechanisms, and that I need to accept that everyone, including myself, is flawed. That I will always be a work in progress, but at least there's hope because I'm finally doing that work.

 

Sorry for being long-winded, but... What I'm saying is that it's tempting to reduce people to simple categories of cheater vs. non-cheater, bad vs. good, because it makes it easier to deal with a difficult and painful situation. Dehumanizing the bad guy (e.g. saying cheaters simply don't feel love as other people do) is something we all do all the time. But reality is that we're all on a spectrum. The Buddhist notion of the Wheel of Life captures it nicely. We work to climb up the wheel, and perhaps make it to the top, but this is only a transitory state and we will inevitably slide back down again at some point. Right now, I'm heading upward and hope not to fall so far back again.

 

But I'm not convinced that you've really changed... I think it's more that you are gradually returning to the authentic "you" - to the person you really are.

 

As you can guess from what I already wrote, I think the "authentic you" for any of us isn't merely ourselves on our best days. Yes, it's easy to look at our negative actions and disown them by saying, "That wasn't the real me". But really - who did those things? The challenge for me, and I think for anyone who really wants to improve themselves, is to figure out how to own all the parts of you, good and bad, and still be okay with yourself. From this you can draw strength to help you steer away from your darker nature.

 

Rather than avoiding the label "cheater", I think WF should own it. I'm not up to speed on the details of her A, but it doesn't matter to me. I will accept her regardless.

[White Flower]

Here comes the boorish man, crashing the ladies' party...

 

 

 

Your situation sounds a lot like mine, although the time frame was 20 years not 25. And as I examine my own experiences and read the stories of others, I'm coming to understand that affairs are not a simple matter of black and white, good vs. bad. Unquestionably, cheating is a terrible way to inflict hurt upon another person, and it can't be justified. But in crossing the line from long-term faithful husband to having an affair, I've been forced to recognize that I'm flawed, that I need to examine and work on myself, and most importantly that I'm a human being and can't expect to be seen as perfect by everyone, because I'm far from it. Being human means sometimes making mistakes, doing bad things, and even hurting people. I've always been a perfectionist and rather judgmental. But I see now that these were defense mechanisms, and that I need to accept that everyone, including myself, is flawed. That I will always be a work in progress, but at least there's hope because I'm finally doing that work.

 

Sorry for being long-winded, but... What I'm saying is that it's tempting to reduce people to simple categories of cheater vs. non-cheater, bad vs. good, because it makes it easier to deal with a difficult and painful situation. Dehumanizing the bad guy (e.g. saying cheaters simply don't feel love as other people do) is something we all do all the time. But reality is that we're all on a spectrum. The Buddhist notion of the Wheel of Life captures it nicely. We work to climb up the wheel, and perhaps make it to the top, but this is only a transitory state and we will inevitably slide back down again at some point. Right now, I'm heading upward and hope not to fall so far back again.

 

 

 

As you can guess from what I already wrote, I think the "authentic you" for any of us isn't merely ourselves on our best days. Yes, it's easy to look at our negative actions and disown them by saying, "That wasn't the real me". But really - who did those things? The challenge for me, and I think for anyone who really wants to improve themselves, is to figure out how to own all the parts of you, good and bad, and still be okay with yourself. From this you can draw strength to help you steer away from your darker nature.

 

Rather than avoiding the label "cheater", I think WF should own it. I'm not up to speed on the details of her A, but it doesn't matter to me. I will accept her regardless.

I can appreciate all that you say. You are very insightful and introspective. I'll dwell on the "darker nature" statement for a while. I don't see it that way as I really feel this was a one time thing and a huge lesson on my path, but I will consider it because you present yourself as wise and thoughtful.

Thank you.

[reboot]

The more I read on here the less black and white the world gets....

 

You guys are destroying all my preconceptions.

 

By the way, michaelk, very nice post. I think I agree with it. I guess I have to since I live with a cheater....

[Just 'nother MM]

I was wondering just when you met with the OW? Was it mostly during the daytime working hour's a late lunch thing? After work for a quickie? While traveling? Or perhap's golfing or beign involved in a sport that kept you away from the family home?

 

We worked in the same office, but used instant and text messages a lot. Add to that the fact that my job involved lots of late nights; it's the perfect environment for an A.

[Just 'nother MM]

You don't go sleeping around because sex is boring. You do it because your sense of right and wrong is broken and something is missing inside you.

 

Amen, JustBreathe, Amen.

[NoIDidn't]

I still have a hard time calling myself a "cheater" because like I said I was giving myself something I felt my H had cheated out of me.

 

Apologies to White Flower in advance.

 

I quoted this because it seems to be the cruz of the differences of the cheater/non-cheater question concerning what makes them different.

 

That quote underlies a basic feeling of entitlement - having been cheated out of something that we felt entitled to.

 

All people feel this way about something or another, but only certain folks go beyond the feelings to justifying getting what they feel cheated out of by cheating others.

[Virgo1982]

Apologies to White Flower in advance.

 

I quoted this because it seems to be the cruz of the differences of the cheater/non-cheater question concerning what makes them different.

 

That quote underlies a basic feeling of entitlement - having been cheated out of something that we felt entitled to.

 

All people feel this way about something or another, but only certain folks go beyond the feelings to justifying getting what they feel cheated out of by cheating others.

 

An eye for an eye...

[White Flower]

An eye for an eye...

You and NoIdidn't might be right. I'll consider it...

 

Kinda like when Kathy Bates in Fried Green Tomatoes pulls into a parking stall and crashes into two younger, hotter girls' car (who previously stole her parking spot and claimed they did it because they were younger and faster) and explains by saying, "I'm older and have more insurance!"

 

I'm not justifying myself; rather, I am laughing at myself.

[LifesontheUp]

Apologies to White Flower in advance.

 

I quoted this because it seems to be the cruz of the differences of the cheater/non-cheater question concerning what makes them different.

 

That quote underlies a basic feeling of entitlement - having been cheated out of something that we felt entitled to.

 

All people feel this way about something or another, but only certain folks go beyond the feelings to justifying getting what they feel cheated out of by cheating others.

 

This has been a very interesting topic but for me this quote feels right on the mark.

 

I divorced my ex but we still work in the same office along with the OW and I still talk with him from time to time.

 

When I found out about the affair I remember telling him what a selfish b*****d he was, how he didn't give a damn about our relationship or me etc etc. His answer was "I deserve to be wanted, I have the right to be happy".

 

Since those days, we have spoken about what happened and he has told me that he realised he was selfish in getting together with the OW. He said at the start of the affair he knew that he shouldn't be doing it but there was a part of him that said "why not I deserve this". He admitted to me that in the beginning he could have stopped going, he never loved her but he justified it in his mind that he was entitled to some happiness.

 

My xH freely admits that the affair was all about him and his need to feel wanted. He no longer blames me, and is back in counselling.

 

So from my experience I can see that a cheater feels entitled to get a need met and even though they may initially realise its a mistake getting involved with someone else, the overiding thoughts are their needs and nobody elses.........selfishness without a doubt.

[Wibble]

This business of "entitlement" seems to be a strong thread with OW/OM, and is strongly linked to selfishness. A certain degree of self-interest is necessary for us to function in society, but an affair reveals a level of selfishness that can come as a shock to both the BS and the cheater.

 

In my own case my wife had always been unable to put the interests of others ahead of her own (not a good quality in ANY relationship), but to "internally" justify her affair (the ultimate selfish act) she concocted such a distorted view of our 18 year marriage that I seriously thought she was mentally ill! Minor incidents from more than a decade previously had been blown up out of all proportion to support the notion that I was a heartless bastard and she "deserved" her happiness. The fact that the source of that "happiness" happened to be married to another woman was a mere detail. Needless to say, when the "downer" of reality hit her it was like an express train. Even 2 years later she is too ashamed to discuss what she did, much less understand why.

 

So selfishness can be a very, very evil thing. The act of marriage, almost by definition, is an expression of both selflessness (I will protect you, even if it hurts me to do so), and an act of selfishness (you make me happy, I want exclusive rights to you). An affair is when the "take" side overwhelms the "give" side, and frankly I am not surprised that adulterers find it very hard to look themselves in the mirror after their behaviour has been uncovered. To betray someone who has made that commitment to you is pretty hard to live with.

 

All IMHO of course.

[White Flower]

This business of "entitlement" seems to be a strong thread with OW/OM, and is strongly linked to selfishness. A certain degree of self-interest is necessary for us to function in society, but an affair reveals a level of selfishness that can come as a shock to both the BS and the cheater.

 

In my own case my wife had always been unable to put the interests of others ahead of her own (not a good quality in ANY relationship), but to "internally" justify her affair (the ultimate selfish act) she concocted such a distorted view of our 18 year marriage that I seriously thought she was mentally ill! Minor incidents from more than a decade previously had been blown up out of all proportion to support the notion that I was a heartless bastard and she "deserved" her happiness. The fact that the source of that "happiness" happened to be married to another woman was a mere detail. Needless to say, when the "downer" of reality hit her it was like an express train. Even 2 years later she is too ashamed to discuss what she did, much less understand why.

 

So selfishness can be a very, very evil thing. The act of marriage, almost by definition, is an expression of both selflessness (I will protect you, even if it hurts me to do so), and an act of selfishness (you make me happy, I want exclusive rights to you). An affair is when the "take" side overwhelms the "give" side, and frankly I am not surprised that adulterers find it very hard to look themselves in the mirror after their behaviour has been uncovered. To betray someone who has made that commitment to you is pretty hard to live with.

 

All IMHO of course.

This is a very good point and it raises all kinds of interesting questions. One for example is should a wife expect her husband to stay faithful if she is no longer able to provide sex? I did not say willing, but able due to physical reasons. Is it fair for her to never allow him that pleasure of intercourse again if he is functioning at full capacity? I would hope that if I became unable to provide that for him that I could make some kind of allowance for him. It is a very hard thing to give up when you are whole and desirous. Is it not selfish of the wife to expect her husband to never go outside for intercourse again? Even if it wasn't OW, but maybe a prostitute?

[Scrivdog]

I always have a problem with this line of thinking because it generalizes every person who cheats. People are selfish - not just cheaters. The spouses who refuse to listen to their SO's about what's lacking in the marriage because they feel safe enough are also selfish. But they have the luxury of playing dumb with no repercussions .. until they find that they've become the BS!

 

Then we hear the endless lamentations and self-righteous swearing. Then we have to endure the horsesh*t about how true and selfless they were this whole time. They blubber on about the loss of innocence in their marriage without realizing the innocence was long gone when they used sex and affection as weopons rather than expressions of love.

 

Know this - if your husband came to you wanting to be intimate and you shove him aside again and again. It's not he is being selfish. If he asks you about it and tries to jump though all you hoops to make you want him and you decide not to respond - then look in the mirror if you want to see selfish.

 

Don't make the mistake of thinking your marriage cerificate is a certificate of ownership. If you do - you'll be eating chocolates, blubbering with the shades drawn as you watch Oprah and your spouse is getting the happiness so selfishly wanted from you but receiving from another.

 

..

 

Since those days, we have spoken about what happened and he has told me that he realised he was selfish in getting together with the OW. He said at the start of the affair he knew that he shouldn't be doing it but there was a part of him that said "why not I deserve this". He admitted to me that in the beginning he could have stopped going, he never loved her but he justified it in his mind that he was entitled to some happiness.

 

My xH freely admits that the affair was all about him and his need to feel wanted. He no longer blames me, and is back in counselling.

 

So from my experience I can see that a cheater feels entitled to get a need met and even though they may initially realise its a mistake getting involved with someone else, the overiding thoughts are their needs and nobody elses.........selfishness without a doubt.

[michaelk]

I always have a problem with this line of thinking because it generalizes every person who cheats. People are selfish - not just cheaters. The spouses who refuse to listen to their SO's about what's lacking in the marriage because they feel safe enough are also selfish. But they have the luxury of playing dumb with no repercussions .. until they find that they've become the BS!

 

Then we hear the endless lamentations and self-righteous swearing. Then we have to endure the horsesh*t about how true and selfless they were this whole time. They blubber on about the loss of innocence in their marriage without realizing the innocence was long gone when they used sex and affection as weopons rather than expressions of love.

 

Know this - if your husband came to you wanting to be intimate and you shove him aside again and again. It's not he is being selfish. If he asks you about it and tries to jump though all you hoops to make you want him and you decide not to respond - then look in the mirror if you want to see selfish.

 

Don't make the mistake of thinking your marriage cerificate is a certificate of ownership. If you do - you'll be eating chocolates, blubbering with the shades drawn as you watch Oprah and your spouse is getting the happiness so selfishly wanted from you but receiving from another.

 

Very good points (although put a bit more strongly than I would).

 

This certainly jibes with the experience my wife and I have had regarding my A. I was incredibly selfish in what I did, and didn't care at all about how it hurt her at the time. I was just thinking about how to find what I felt was missing in my life. After my W found out what was going on, and we talked about what had spurred me to do it, and a great deal of talking and crying on both sides, I asked her why she wasn't more angry with me. She told me how she had come to realize that she had played a role of her own by being very neglectful of me, not just sexually but emotionally.

 

We came to the conclusion that a monumental failure of communication and therefore intimacy had driven a wedge between us, leaving us with no feelings of love for each other. This led us both to be depressed and lonely. In a situation where we both acted badly, I certainly was far worse than her in what I did. And I own the fact that I was an unfeeling ass**** and deserve much worse than what happened to me. But you're right, Scrivdog - while it's convenient and easy to cast all cheaters as 'bad' and all BS as 'good', it's not really accurate. These things are so much more complex.

[nadiaj2727]

Now, does anyone have really good advice on how to formally end it?

 

Be honest and straight-forward with him. Think in advance of what you want to tell him -- it can either be short and sweet, or more explanation, but either way, stick to the main points and let him know (although you might not want to say it) that you care about him but for many reasons you need to end this relationship. Much like ending other relationships, but in a way it's easier because you have a very very good reason, whereas in other, single relationships you might feel "selfish" for leaving. Have one last conversation (on the phone or in person) with him for closure's sake and so that he understands. But explain to him in that conversation that you need to go no contact so that both of you can truly move on.

 

Make sure you don't contact him or respond if he contacts you any more, no matter what. Or else every time you do, you might feel depressed, sad, and regretful. It makes you feel stronger to just move on and leave him in your past, with happy memories, not repeated opened wounds from contact. If it seems hard at first, tell yourself "I won't talk to him for 14 days." You'll probably feel after 14 days that it was a good thing, and you won't want to talk to him for another 14 days, etc. There's a cheesy but inspirational book called "It's Called a Breakup Because it's Broken" that has some advice and, even better, some common sense "come on girl, this is how you have to do it for it to work!!" cheerleading.

 

Best wishes WF. Happy Thanksgiving.

[LifesontheUp]

I always have a problem with this line of thinking because it generalizes every person who cheats. People are selfish - not just cheaters.

 

The spouses who refuse to listen to their SO's about what's lacking in the marriage because they feel safe enough are also selfish. But they have the luxury of playing dumb with no repercussions .. until they find that they've become the BS!

 

Then we hear the endless lamentations and self-righteous swearing. Then we have to endure the horsesh*t about how true and selfless they were this whole time. They blubber on about the loss of innocence in their marriage without realizing the innocence was long gone when they used sex and affection as weopons rather than expressions of love.

 

Know this - if your husband came to you wanting to be intimate and you shove him aside again and again. It's not he is being selfish. If he asks you about it and tries to jump though all you hoops to make you want him and you decide not to respond - then look in the mirror if you want to see selfish.

 

Don't make the mistake of thinking your marriage cerificate is a certificate of ownership. If you do - you'll be eating chocolates, blubbering with the shades drawn as you watch Oprah and your spouse is getting the happiness so selfishly wanted from you but receiving from another.

 

Ooh I must have struck a nerve. A response from someone who believes that staying in the same house with his wife and kids and have an OW on the side is a selfless act. What a fine example to your children you are. How you can look at yourself in the mirror let alone your children I do not know. Ahh.........but of couse its a selfless act. You justify it because you are raising your kids together. You couldn't dare allow your wife the chance to find love with someone else. God forbid she find another man that will actually be a good step dad.....how would you feel then.

 

Quite frankly with the way you are behaving don't be surprised in years to come, you will be the one eating chocolates, drinking yourself into oblivion all on your lonesome watching Oprah. Cause when your wife and kids find out how SELFISH you have been then don't be surprised that you kids will disown you for what you did to THEIR mother.

 

Now, I've learnt a lot from my upbringing, my previous marriage and through subsequent counselling. I was not casting the BS as the "good person" in the marriage. It understand that it takes two to make a marriage work. What I am saying though is that when you go outside your marriage instead of justifying it, own up and accept responsibility for being selfish enough to break your marriage vows.

 

I believe in honesty and integrity and can sleep with a clean conscious. I've been the child along with a brother and sister who had a mother doing what your doing. When the sh** hit the fan Scrivdog we all disowned her. We helped our dad try and pick up the pieces and wanted nothing to do with her. And when she left the home and went to the OM, he didn't want her either. Cause guess what..........he'd waited so long for my mum to leave my father he got fed up of waiting and he'd been seeing someone on the side too.

 

So instead of jumping on someones post like you did perhaps you should sit back and start fixing the mess you've made before its too late.

[Wibble]

But they have the luxury of playing dumb with no repercussions .. until they find that they've become the BS!

 

Then we hear the endless lamentations and self-righteous swearing. Then we have to endure the horsesh*t about how true and selfless they were this whole time. They blubber on about the loss of innocence in their marriage without realizing the innocence was long gone when they used sex and affection as weopons rather than expressions of love.

 

 

I think this is an unfair generalisation of the state of most marriages. The truth is that nearly ALL married people have an opportunity and a motive to cheat at SOME time. The motive may be shallow and transitory (an argument etc) and the opportunity may be fleeting (office party etc) but the point is that MOST people do not take that chance when it is presented to them.

 

None of us are whiter than white, but the BS differs from the cheater in that they have NOT taken the chances when they were there. This loyalty is re-paid with betrayal, when they discover that their spouses feelings for them were not strong enough to resisit temptation. THAT is what drives the self-righteousness of the betrayed. The act of betrayal is a statement of disrespect, contempt, call it what you will, but it is NEVER justifiable in an honest relationship.

 

 

All IMHO of course.

[Scrivdog]

I guess I must not be able to express my thoughts in a way that makes sense to anybody here - so let me give it another try.

 

Obviously there are married people out there who will cheat no matter how good things are at home. I have no doubt about that. For those people, marriage is probably a lost cause - I have nothing to say about them because the issues are probably as clear-cut as they'll ever get.

 

I'm also pretty sure that there are people who have it good at home and because of that - even a movie star can't tempt them into infidelity. For those people, that's great. The temptations do present themselves, but they probably don't seem anywhere as enticing as what they have with the spouse. For them - that's great. But they're in no position to judge those who are not as fortunate as they are.

 

THEN - there are those who have seen the key components of their marriage disappear. Typically (judging from what I see on the internet), the husbands find they can't get any sex and intimacy from their wives. I'm sure that the daily grind of life takes the shine out of the romance of the relationship - but it's alot to ask that a guy simply do without.

 

Some men lean on religion to feel as though they're (see Moose) doing the right thing by remaining celibate. But in fact - I'll bet good money that most men won't resist too long under those circumstances.

 

This is where I seem to differ from most of you ladies here. You refuse to acknowledge the weight that those actions have in the demise of the marriage.

 

Sure it's easy to throw in the usual mindless platitudes: "We'll just divorce if all you want to do is f*ck around", "Run a warm bubble bath for her", "You need to communicate with her", "but the BS differs from the cheater in that they have NOT taken the chances when they were there", and blahdy bla bla. If you have nothing better than that to offer - then that should tell you how far off you are from understanding the gravity of the issue.

 

Some men, at this point feel stuck in the marriage because they have kids. I know I do. I take the responsibility of raising my own kids seriously and I expect my wife to do the same. I know that in this divorce culture, that line of thinking is heresy.

 

If she doesn't want to have sex with me anymore then I can't force her. But that doesn't absolve us from being there for the kids we bore and that also doesn't give her the right to make me a celibate monk just because she's OK with that way of life.

 

Bottom line is: If a spouse is acting like your roommate - then that spouse has betrayed the marriage first. If there's anything on this board that makes me shake my head most often - it's the refusal to see that fact.

 

For all of you than know Moose and Tommyr's stories. Those situations, I suspect, are the most common scenario in a relationship where there's infidelity. Would you actually condemn them for cheating and betraying the "innocense of the relationship". Seriously?

[Scrivdog]

Well there you have it folks - it's a sin to cheat but it's ok for a spouse to deny the other intimacy and sex. God even said so.

 

What was I thinking?

[michaelk]

Well there you have it folks - it's a sin to cheat but it's ok for a spouse to deny the other intimacy and sex. God even said so.

 

What was I thinking?

 

lol I'm sure if you look at the Bible it also describes somewhere in the Old Testament that the wife should be attending to the husband's needs, and that he can demand that of her if he pleases.

 

We all pick and choose our beliefs, usually to construct a world view we can live with. For some of us that means branding the WS as a 'sinner' and using God to back up our point of view. For others, it means seeing all the shades of gray and casting the BS in a neglectful marriage as culpable along with the WS.

 

Reality is what you make of it, I guess.

[LifesontheUp]

Some men, at this point feel stuck in the marriage because they have kids. I know I do. I take the responsibility of raising my own kids seriously and I expect my wife to do the same. I know that in this divorce culture, that line of thinking is heresy.

 

If she doesn't want to have sex with me anymore then I can't force her. But that doesn't absolve us from being there for the kids we bore and that also doesn't give her the right to make me a celibate monk just because she's OK with that way of life.

 

Bottom line is: If a spouse is acting like your roommate - then that spouse has betrayed the marriage first. If there's anything on this board that makes me shake my head most often - it's the refusal to see that fact.

 

1. So have you even thought about how your kids will feel about you when they find out about your lies and deceit?

 

2. Does your wife know that you have changed the rules in your marriage and you're fu**king an OW?

 

3. If the answer to question 2 is no, then why haven't you told her?

 

4. You like to blame your wife for the lack of sex. But what needs have YOU failed to meet that has led to the lack of sex and intimacy between you and your wife? You can't just make out that you are blameless and the lack of sex is her fault alone.

[Scrivdog]

1. So have you even thought about how your kids will feel about you when they find out about your lies and deceit?

I'm less worried about how they'll feel about me as I am about loving them now, keeping them safe and being there for them when they need me. Once they go to college, healthy and are off on their own - they can hate me if they choose to.

 

2. Does your wife know that you have changed the rules in your marriage and you're fu**king an OW?

I don't think so.

 

3. If the answer to question 2 is no, then why haven't you told her?

I don't see what good that will accomplish. If I ever do see one - I'll definitely tell her.

 

4. You like to blame your wife for the lack of sex. But what needs have YOU failed to meet that has led to the lack of sex and intimacy between you and your wife?

None

 

You can't just make out that you are blameless and the lack of sex is her fault alone.

Yes I can, because that's what it is - as far as I can tell.

[White Flower]

Originally posted by Bentnotbroken>

There can be no condemnation on our parts for anyone's acts. What I do is live by the Bible. And no where( I have asked several ministers including my father in law)does it give a God given reason(good or bad) for cheating. There is only one reason given for divorce and that is adultery. But no reason given for just having sex because you have to go without. You beliefs are your beliefs, but what are they based on? What man believes he should have or do in that situation or what God said you do in that situation?

 

Hi Bent,

Some people simply don't need organized religion to show them how to live a respectable life. In fact, most people go by instinct, intuition, and their own set of morals. I truly believe that most "religious" people really go to church for the tradition and the community even though a few, like yourself, really go for guidance. I know you're an intelligent and educated person who is completely capable of guiding herself and would like to give God all the glory for everything good she does. That is noble. But, it is not most people's realities. Scrivdog may even be a church-goer for all we know. The fact remains that his wife is not fulfilling her wifely duty and he has needs. I don't like that he has gone outside the marriage either, but is he supposed to remain celibate for the rest of his life? Seriously, I don't see that many BWs on here offering an honest answer to this question except that he shouldn't cheat. What are his options in your very honest opinion besides divorce?