Talked With W.....

[KATANYA]

Just wanted to give an update and vent a bit....really feeling rather sad tonight. Sorry that this will be long but its really just for me to get this out.

 

ExMM's W called last night and asked if we could meet today - so, I did.

 

W wanted to talk about exMM, her H. Said she knew we were 'dear' friends and that she knew my loyalties were with him but felt that I could 'understand' him. She said that he has been very 'difficult' of late---more moody than usual, was drinking quite a bit for the past few weekends, very 'controlling' again with her (her word), and that she was tired or going through this with him ---- he does well for a while and then acts like this. She said she wished he would 'grow up' one of these days and that he had treated her 'badly' this past weekend and she was so tired of things going well then not. Talked about how he makes it up to her by 'materialistic' things (money, gifts, trips, etc), which she said she feels she 'deserves' after all this time, and that she had left before and always goes back. Told me she had told him that the next time she 'leaves' she is taking everything and he told her that she could have everything. She told me he makes her so angry and she knows he has a 'good heart' but when he acts this way she gets sooo mad and frustrated. She did not directly talk about his A's or flings in the past only to reference him changing 'a little' over the years but still going back to 'old ways'. I listened to everything she said then asked her WHY she felt she needed to tell me all this (of course she would know I knew these things from knowing them for so long). So, here goes........she asked me the following:

*Do I think he will ever change?

*Do I think she does the right thing staying with him?

*Why does he have to act this way?

*Why can't she be more like me and be 'independent'?

 

Now, I won't lie and say that I wasn't tempted to tell her she should run (not walk) out of the situation and, honestly, a part of me wanted to tell her soooo many things that would probably give her a much clearer picture of her H. However, I know this woman and I know H; nothing I could say and nothing he could do will make her leave. So, here's what I said;

 

*H has been my friend for years and I care very much for him and about him and I know he has 'destructive' habits that must really hurt. He knows she accepts these things and that is why he won't change ----he knows she will never leave.

 

*Staying with him tells him she loves him, even with his flaws. At some point I hope that sinks in with him and he does change but I can't say that he will or won't -- it is up to her to decide how much is enough. No one else can tell her that.

 

*He acts this way because he has always been allowed to act this way and, at this point, its just 'who' he is ---he doesn't need to change because, after 30 years, he hasn't had to change.

 

Then I told her that I did not have to live and deal with the same type of relationship as she and he have. I told her that yes, he is my friend and, because of that, I felt it was not right for me and her to talk about him. I told her that I felt bad she was having a difficult time with him right now but I could not be involved or help so if she wanted me to talk to him I could not and would not. Finally, I told her that I did not want to know any personal details about his life with her - he does not share them and I felt awkward knowing them from her given that he and I are friends; if he chose to share those things so be it but he doesn't. I told her she needed to talk to her own friends/family but most importantly to HIM. And, I told her that being 'independent' or 'single' was not always easy and not to look at how others live as a measuring tool to how she should live.

 

She told me she understood why H and I were close and that she knows he really 'depends' on me alot and he would be 'lost' without me. She wishes she had someone close to her like that. I could not answer this. She said joining the gym and getting more involved was her way of trying to 'get out' and 'have a life' and I told her I thought that was good for anyone and I was glad she was doing that for herself. She asked if we could 'go out' once in awhile and I told her she was always invited on our trips and that she should go and get out with 'everyone' - I am not prepared to commit more than that so could not answer any more than that.

 

So that's how the conversation ended. I feel sad for her and sad for him and SO don't understand WHY people chose to live unhappy even if there are times when things are good. I can't imagine how any amount of money, gifts, security, etc. that you feel you need could replace a sense of happiness with your life - it would seem SO EMPTY to me. I also don't know if I should tell exMM that we had this talk or not. I'm sure she will say nothing to him and I do feel somewhat torn between feeling like I'd be betraying her confidence (strange feeling to have as the exOW) and betraying his by not telling him.

 

I honestly admit that ending the A and trying to stay friends has been a challenge to me (although exMM would never know to what extent) and exMM has been careful about NOT putting me or himself in compromising situations and I do think we have a better chance than most to remain friends........in time. But the conversation has left me with such a sense of sadness and confusion for her and for him. I understand why people chose to stay and 'work' on their M....I just will never understand why people 'settle' for mediocre. In a lot of ways, we always talk about the difference between the MM/W relationship and the MM/OW relationship but, you know what, there are times (and I think this is one of them) where the M is being sustained but the question is still 'FOR WHAT?". Neither the W or the OW gets the 'man' they 'want' .......Perhaps at one time W stays for the kids (now grandkids with 2 on the way), financial, habit - maybe OW (the next one because it won't be me again) will fall for the guy that I got to see and W doesn't get to see - the adventurous, funny, easy going guy who has such compassion and such passion for his work and his family and his life - the same man but two TOTALLY different personalities around two TOTALLY different women..........I'll never get it I guess.

 

Thanks for letting me vent everyone - sorry for the novel....like I said, just feeling sad and confused tonight.

[EmeraldI's]

That took alot of strength for you to do...Sorry for your sadness and confusion...

 

(((HUGS)))

[norajane]

I feel sad for her and sad for him and SO don't understand WHY people chose to live unhappy even if there are times when things are good. I can't imagine how any amount of money, gifts, security, etc. that you feel you need could replace a sense of happiness with your life - it would seem SO EMPTY to me.

 

Fear. Fear of change. Fear of being alone. Fear of the unknown. Fear of not being able to make it. Fear.

 

That must have been an impossibly awkward conversation for you! I don't have any advice, although I think you're doing the right thing by trying to stay more distant and not becoming her good friend and sharing confidences. That would just be sooo bizarrely wrong. She and her H need to start communicating to each other!!

[Lyssa]

Wow. I admire you for saying all those things. It must have been one helluva awkward situation and I can't imagine how you were feeling during the 'meeting'.

 

All I can offer is my hugs.

[hollaxatholly]

I agree with all of the above posts. That had to be difficult and really awkward for you, being the ex-OW. It's hard to know why people settle for this but I'm pretty sure it really is mostly all about fear of the unknown and being alone. I guess you get used to living life a certain way and then it's easier somehow to just continue it then to try to leave all you know and go out and find a new life.

 

You seem to of really handled the situation well and said alot of good things to her...and that was good of you to try to distance yourself from her a little bit in a nice way, You definitely don't need her becoming your best friend or anything. It has to be really awkward as it is now even.....it sounds like maybe she doesn't have many people she can talk to or be with. It's just such a weird feeling...to talk to the W...and theres so many things you want to say, but can't.

[Suny1]

Seems the W wants to know the OW alil better because she knows there might be something similiar in in both women to want the same man. Maybe they want to get to know us to see what we have that attracted him to us that they don't have. I agree that the MM is two different people living two totally different lives. That must be really hard too.

My MM's W will never leave him for fear she will never have anyone else.

He is doing anything she wants to stay with her, because she still doesn't know the whole truth.

 

I admire U for handling the situation the way you did. The W poured her heart out to me after she knew I wasn't going to fight with her. I am just glad we have the courage to move on. I feel sorry for the W that will continue to let herself be unhappy just to keep the H. I really never want to talk to the W again for fear that I will end up telling her everything and she will still stay with him and be more miserable than she already is.

[NoIDidn't]

I knew it. I knew she wanted to talk about him.

 

That had to have been awkward. I didn't know that she was once his OW too. He obviously has a pattern in his Rs and you were smart to get out of the A with him. But this friendship is going to cause you much pain (the friendship with him and the one with her).

 

I had a similar situation (me the W, and the exGF/friend as a couple friend). Needless to say, we (H and I) no longer talk to her much. Not because of her *role*, per se, but more because of all of the divided loyalties for all of us. The friendship isn't over, but its not close like it was and probably never will be again.