my head is spinning

[burningman]

Here goes: My wife and I have been together for 8 years, married for 3, no kids. Happy, healthy, best friends, never fight or argue, do everything together. I'm 38, she's 33. We're a perfect fit and our relationship was perfect until now. She has been a manager for a branch office of a large, large corporate america company since August. I used to work for the same co. in the next town over and left the company in May to remain in the same field, but work from home. Her manager's manager, the guy in charge of the whole state works from the same office as her and is there maybe 2-3 days a week, tops. This guy is up there on the totem pole.

Her part: She has admitted now that she had sort of a non-sexual crush on the guy that came and went (apparently women can have non-sexual crushes. I know men don't) and she never really thought anything of it. She thought she had made a new plutonic friend and I was actually aware of the friendship. Nothing about it seemed unusual at the time. I kinda know the guy a little, she even stated on more than one occaison we should al go out or invite him over. He's separated (maybe divorced now) and has 2 kids on some weekends. She states he seemed a bit lonley and could use some friends. There is no evidence of any foul play or change in routine, spending, scheduling or anything to suggest there was anything going on prior to Oct 13th.

The play: In retrospect, she says he was never anything more than friendly to her. He always asked about me/us... normal friend stuff, but would never commit to coming over or going out with us. One incident that pops out is end of july, going away party for her former boss. I attended and the perp tried to get under my skin about leaving the company. Wife and I talked about it and even wondered if this could possibly be some schoolyard bullying attempt at trying to show off for her or isolate me and we both agreed no possible way he would do this, he's got a lot at stake. Then we fwd to October 11th, she's walking by his office and he tells her he is having a barbque Saturday night and asks "would you like to come" (not to be confused with "you guys" or "you all") she says she'll talk to me and see. She asks him to email her address and he says no, no... here I'll just write it down on a piece of paper for you.

Saturday comes along, she asked me to go with her and admitted she thought it would be beneficial for her career to go. I advised no, I'd rather not (thinking back to the July incident). She gets to the barbque and there is no food, and the perp, head of HR and his girlfriend, and another mgr there and that's all. She really hits it off with HR's grilfriend and they are hanging out and talking and drinking. She decides it's time to go if she's driving and they all collectively convinced her stay and hang out. She calls me to let me know she is going to hang out and she'll sleep it off on the couch for a while and com home later. This is isn't totally unusual in our circle of friends. From a professional standpoint though, I advised against it and offerred to call her a cab. She said no, she'll be fine. She gets off phone and perp begins mixing her one margarita after another. Everyone goes to bed, they are the last two up and he makes his move. She states it's hazy, and she conveniently blacked out with shirt off on couch with him, but she did wake up on the couch with her pants on and tampon in and his kids were asleep in his room, so she never made it to his room. She states she remembers thinking she felt sorry for him at the time, and didn't know what to do because of his work position, but for the most part she just doesn't know why she responded. She came home at 2am. He will no longer speak to her and hasn't since that night.

Believe it or not, knowing my wife, this isn't all that far fetched. It took her 17 days to finally tell me and then she dripped it out to me for 12 more excruciating days. I think what I have now is most of the truth.

The issues: She claims she is deeply hurt at losing what she thought was a real friend, and her guilt tore her up to the point she told me about it, her guilt is that she can't explain why she responded to the guy (margarita, anyone?). She keeps see-sawing: maybe this guy won't talk to her because he's embarrassed and he really is a good friend who just made a mistake? But then she thinks he saw an opportunity and took it, and got her drunk and took advantage of her and had something for her for a while. It just goes round and round, her betrayed self-esteem and her guilt chasing each other in circles. She also isn't ruling out staying in her position at work. She swears she wouldn't have stayed if it didn't appear to be a safe work-like situation with HR there, and she swears she never saw it coming or she wouldn't have even went, or stayed. I do think she had a right to feel safe, but she obviously has her responsibility in this. We have a labor attorney on retainer just in case. Meanwhile, I'm losing my mind. I know this was long, but it's a messy one. Any thoughts? I've made plenty of drunken mistakes I can't explain (back in college though, geez), so I'm willing to forgive her, but as beleivable as this is... It's still unbelievable. She is pretty naive though.

No drinking problems with her either, until, and now ever since 10/13.

[Cobra_X30]

Yes, I've got some ideas.

 

How about you 1. check cell phone records. Go through her text messages, Go through her Bloody email accounts!

 

I tell you why. Because nothing in that makes sense at ALL. First, who in the hell drinks that much at a work function and expects it to be good for the career! You wind up looking like a fool every time. Second... why not catch a cab? Oh wait... because she didnt WANT to come home.

 

It sounds to me more plausible based on the reactions here, that she has had a crush on this guy for some time. They get drunk together, she or he makes a move. Then he realizes that it could be deep doo doo, and cause him to lose his job, so he backs way off. She feels the rejection and so comes running back to Mr. Backup... ie... YOU ready to spin the crap out of the situation.

 

Maybe I'm way off, but thats exactly how I read the situation.

[burningman]

Cobra, I've checked the phone records, bank accounts, every conceivable place for unusual tracks and nothing found. also no changes in our sex life, time spent together, work schedule or anything. Believe me, I've hunted high and low, because I didn't believe any of it either. I think I'm here because I'm not totally sure I do now. But seriously, I cannot find anything to indicate anything other than one time thing. I think it's more like she was playing with fire and thought "I can get away with this without getting into any trouble because he'll never let it happen, he can't because of work, and HR being here makes it even more ok. What a better situation to enjoy the crush." Keep in mind she did try to get me to go with her.

[Cobra_X30]

Honestly, it seems more like she was asking you to stop her, when she asked you to go.

 

I think we both agree then that she knew full well what she was doing before she even left your house?

 

Also, from everything I have ever known or heard, women do not have nonsexual crushes in that way. Further proof of this is that something happened!

 

You say that your marriage has been very good. Would she say the exact same thing? Women who are happy in thier marriage rarely have outside crushes... especially ones that they act on. Alcohol only lowers inhibitions, it doesnt put thoughts into your head that were not already there.

 

So what do you plan to do about this?

[whichwayisup]

She has a crush on him too, and it's an emotional affair they're having. This can do just as much damage as a physical one, so don't believe for one second that this isn't serious, it IS! I mean, is she this emotionally involved/attached to any FEMALE co-workers? Nope. It's him.

 

This guy is no friend of hers and she isn't a friend to him as true, platonic friends would NOT be doing what they both did. And, she also wouldn't be staying late, staying over at the house, that's bullcrap. She should have come home to you in a cab, or you should have picked her up.

 

The drinking isn't an excuse - Though it does seem this guy had a "plan" in the works and totally manipulated your wife - And with that being said, I'm sure the redflags were there infront of her, she just chose not to see them. Another thing I just thought of, (I hope I'm waaay off base here) but is it possible he drugged her? Or are the type of drinks involved just very potient? (I'm not a drinker, sorry.)

[burningman]

Cobra: I find it very hard to believe that she didn't know, at least by the time she called that she didn't know what she was getting herself into. I agree with you about the alcohol too. I think she probably would say our marriage was pretty darn good. I know she's insecure though and that's her issue. Honestly, I don't know what to do. I have no clue. I love her. She loves me. But something is eating at me which tells me I'm not getting the whole truth. The attorney has advised NC from me to him under any circumstances or it may jeopardize her job, but I've considered calling him and just politely asking him if he could please explain to me what all has happenned. She may not realize it, but her job is shot now anyway. It's just a matter of time.

**********

also

[burningman]

the drugging has been discussed and isn't off the table. We'll never know though. If she would have told me the next day I would have made her get a test though.

[whichwayisup]

Well, she has blown it now eitherway, your trust in her isn't the same as it was before and she has ALOT of work to do to prove herself again to you.

 

Marriage counselling, individual counselling - She needs to deal with her insecurites and take responsbility for her actions in this. She cannot put ALL the blame on this guy and claim the "we're just friends" crap because they are NOT friends.

 

She also should consider changing her job as it is unfair to you now for her to continue working around him. That isn't going to fix your marriage, let alone get you to trust her again.

[Cobra_X30]

But something is eating at me which tells me I'm not getting the whole truth.

 

but I've considered calling him and just politely asking him if he could please explain to me what all has happenned. She may not realize it, but her job is shot now anyway. It's just a matter of time.

**********

also

 

Whats more than likely eating at you is the fact that she took 17 days to tell you about this. More than likely she was gauging the Other Mans reaction first. There is a possibility that if he was interested in carrying on a discreet relationship... you might have recieved divorce papers in 6 months. It's just he rejected her.

 

Also, she took 12 days to eeek out the whole story. Which is usually done for only one reason, and thats to spin the truth to make it look more positive for her. More than likely gauging your reaction at each point to make sure you dont dump her.

 

If you want to contact him go ahead! You have every right, but I would recommend doing it face to face. You need to be able to read his body language. Also act like you know everything that happened and that if he just tells you God's truth your not going to persue anything against him.

[lost4ever]

Look I believe the story, it is hard for some people to understand but, this situation was a lot like how my affair started...

Women think men can be their friends; ugly, dorky, creepy men we really think can be our friends, because we know we wouldn't ever touch them in a sexual way...or ever have feelings for them; then you add alcohol the drama starts......

When women (that don't drink much) drink, we know that people will take advantage of us, so we tend to set it up so that we are around people we totally trust, we "think" this guy that we have no feeling for will protect us from anything bad happening (like your girlfriends would)....but then we soon find out that a lot of men (the old, ugly, creepy ones) just wait for this moment of drunkiness so they can take advantage of us.......

 

If she is anything like me, she feels very guilty and learned two very important things

 

1.) Do not drink if you are not around your Husband

2.) Do not trust another man (besides your Husband)ever!!!

 

If you see her doing these things, you know it was a very very dumb mistake (on her part) and she does feel very very guilty for letting this happen....and I can almost bet, she will do anything in her power to make sure nothing even close happens like this again.....

 

All I can say is, if you can deal with the hurt and the pain and forgive her then at least try....but make sure she understands the pain this caused!

[burningman]

I'm taking notes, you are all bringing me tons of clarity. Thank you so much. whichwayisup: She's not as mad at him as she should be if she thinks the guy got her drunk at took advantage of her. She's only a little mad and that tells me maybe she's mad at the rejection? This explains the guilt driving her to think he can't be that bad of a guy.

[burningman]

Lost4ever, you wrote:

 

this situation was a lot like how my affair started...

Women think men can be their friends.... then you add alcohol and the drama starts......

When women (that don't drink much) drink, we know that people will take advantage of us, so we tend to set it up so that we are around people we totally trust, we "think" this guy that we have no feeling for will protect us from anything bad happening (like your girlfriends would)....but then we soon find out that a lot of men (the old, ugly, creepy ones) just wait for this moment of drunkiness so they can take advantage of us.......

****************************************************

 

I'm obviously not familiar with your affair, but how can you start with a safe ugly creepy guy that you think is your friend and have no feeling for, and then get loaded one night and it turns into an affair? You believe her story, which is why I am asking. I may be drawing up incorrect conclusions since I don't know your story, so if that's the case then let me know.

[whichwayisup]

She's only a little mad and that tells me maybe she's mad at the rejection? This explains the guilt driving her to think he can't be that bad of a guy.

 

Ego is driving her, emotional attachment is driving her, and I hate to say it but cobra is onto something here:

 

Whats more than likely eating at you is the fact that she took 17 days to tell you about this. More than likely she was gauging the Other Mans reaction first. There is a possibility that if he was interested in carrying on a discreet relationship... you might have recieved divorce papers in 6 months. It's just he rejected her.

 

Also, she took 12 days to eeek out the whole story. Which is usually done for only one reason, and thats to spin the truth to make it look more positive for her. More than likely gauging your reaction at each point to make sure you dont dump her.

[Cobra_X30]

I think she probably would say our marriage was pretty darn good.

 

I just have a very hard time believing this.

 

Have you actually asked her recently if there is something you can do better?

 

I mean honestly, its not the one night incident that has me scratching my head here.

 

It's the fact that a supposed happy wife, is crushing on another man.

 

What is driving the attraction to him? Looks? Power? Attention? ... ect.

 

Do you see why I'm not understanding this.

[lost4ever]

how can you start with a safe ugly creepy guy that you think is your friend and have no feeling for, and then get loaded one night and it turns into an affair? You believe her story, which is why I am asking. I may be drawing up incorrect conclusions since I don't know your story, so if that's the case then let me know.

 

I honestly don't believe she had any intention on starting an affair, she asked you to go with her, because she wanted to go, you said no. She was having a good time, and trusted the people she was with (A guy from work, who knew she was married, another guy from work, who is in HR and that guys girlfriend) Everybody tells her just to relax, your around good/safe people, so she does, she starts to get a little drunk and tells you she is going to stay over, guy now sees husband is fine with girl not coming home, girl is drunk, and he is going to try to get what he can and we all know that drinking throws all sense out the window

what I meant by the creepy guy thing, Is usually when a girl is attracted to someone and married, we know we are tempted and don't put ourselves in that position; when the guy is someone we wouldn't be attracted to we tend to ease up with the situations we let ourselves become involved in; with them

 

 

The cheating is1 00% her fault but, couldn't, you could have said, no call a cab, or no I'm going to come get you, she wasn't thinking straight, she was drinking and you had a feeling he may have liked her, right?? So why did you say OK hunny go ahead and keep drinking around a bunch of people I don't know, and spend the night at the creepy guys house that wants you...If you trusted the situation, why shouldn't she?

[lost4ever]

I just have a very hard time believing this.

 

Have you actually asked her recently if there is something you can do better?

 

I mean honestly, its not the one night incident that has me scratching my head here.

 

It's the fact that a supposed happy wife, is crushing on another man.

 

What is driving the attraction to him? Looks? Power? Attention? ... ect.

 

Do you see why I'm not understanding this.

 

I have a question to go along with Cobra's did she say she had a crush on him after she told you of the affair......Did the convo go something like

 

you: "How the hell could something like this happen"

Her: "I don't know, I guess I always had a little crush on him"

 

sometimes, after we have an affair, we try to think of why/how could we let this happen, and the only way to justify to ourselves that we are not sluts that would sleep with anything, we tell ourselves, I must have had feelings for him, I think I had a crush on him (but really, we just can't admit to ourselves that; I just had sex with a man I do not give two cents about)

[Bryanp]

What a red flag. She is only mad a little bit and you guess it is because of rejection. I agree with you. It takes her 17 days to tell you but she is only a little mad that this guy tried to screw and moleste her and had her betray her marriage? The story and her reaction does not seem to jive.

 

If the roles were reversed I doubt that she would be as accepting and understanding as you. She admits she has had previous crushes at her workplace, wanted to invite him over to your place previously for dinner and does not seem that upset to having got drunk and molested by him. I am sorry my friend but I seriously doubt you have the whole story and I think you know this. She is just a little mad at him?.....Oh please. I am sorry but you are being played and I also so think down deep you know this. I am sorry but it really sounds like a like a bull.

[lost4ever]

What a red flag. She is only mad a little bit and you guess it is because of rejection. I agree with you. It takes her 17 days to tell you but she is only a little mad that this guy tried to screw and moleste her and had her betray her marriage? The story and her reaction does not seem to jive.

quote]

 

Maybe she doesn't hate him because she knows it is just as much her fault, unless he tried to rape her, come on, it takes two people to flirt and almost have sex. She was the one married, all this guy did was betray a trust....In my book thats not a cause for hate. All that calls for is knowing you can not trust that person anymore (and in this situation, never talk, look, or think about him anymore) I think as long as she hates herself for these actions, the blame is in the right place.

[Cobra_X30]

Is usually when a girl is attracted to someone and married, we know we are tempted and don't put ourselves in that position; when the guy is someone we wouldn't be attracted to we tend to ease up with the situations we let ourselves become involved in; with them

 

I'm not sure I understand the thought process here. If she had a crush on this other guy... then she knew not to put herself out there like that.

 

However, if she didnt have some kind of feelings for him... why would she go in the first place.

 

The cheating is 100% her fault but, couldn't, you could have said, no call a cab, or no I'm going to come get you, she wasn't thinking straight, she was drinking and you had a feeling he may have liked her, right?? So why did you say OK hunny go ahead and keep drinking around a bunch of people I don't know, and spend the night at the creepy guys house that wants you...If you trusted the situation, why shouldn't she?

 

Ok, I wasnt going to get into this yet, but this is a really good point Lost!

 

I mentioned earlier that his attitude seems almost too permissive.

[burningman]

Cobra: this is why I almost believe it. I'm scratching my head here too. We've had the conversation and she swears she couldn't be happier. We meet at the gym every day after work. Go running together, as one of my hobbies I cook her a gourmet dinner every night. I promise you that I have enough evidence that the physical part of it is a one time thing or she's way beter at this than the best player I know. I've dug through eberything looking for just one clue so I could come after her. Nothing there.

 

**

As for lost4ever's comments, I thought it was safe too considering the people invloved. I mean HR is there? I really did. I advised against it from a potential rumor standpoint. This is why I am here posting. There is something missing. A piece of the puzzle is just not in place and I can't get it. I'm with COBRA though on the 17 days. She didn't know what to do so she waited. She has voluntarily told me she that she would have confessed anyway because the guilt was killing her. Don't know if I believe that though. I'm also in agreement on the drip.. drip.. drip, spin thing too. She is trying to save face which doesn't really help us as a couple.

[Bryanp]

Great point. I totally agree. It seems much too permissive. He knew the situtation was not what it originally was stated and she was drinking and knew a guy was attracted to her. I think most men would have seen the red flag and gone to get her instead of letting her stay the night with only 3 other people all who were drunk. It seems ridiculously permissive. Nevertheless the wife knew the situation was not kosher and clearly was set up to be a couples thing and she continued to drink so much she blacked out? I doubt this is the true story.

[Cobra_X30]

Cobra: this is why I almost believe it. I'm scratching my head here too. We've had the conversation and she swears she couldn't be happier. We meet at the gym every day after work. Go running together, as one of my hobbies I cook her a gourmet dinner every night. I promise you that I have enough evidence that the physical part of it is a one time thing or she's way beter at this than the best player I know. I've dug through eberything looking for just one clue so I could come after her. Nothing there.

 

**

As for lost4ever's comments, I thought it was safe too considering the people invloved. I mean HR is there? I really did. I advised against it from a potential rumor standpoint. This is why I am here posting. There is something missing. A piece of the puzzle is just not in place and I can't get it. I'm with COBRA though on the 17 days. She didn't know what to do so she waited. She has voluntarily told me she that she would have confessed anyway because the guilt was killing her. Don't know if I believe that though. I'm also in agreement on the drip.. drip.. drip, spin thing too. She is trying to save face which doesn't really help us as a couple.

 

So, what she is telling you is that she cheated, with no prompting, for no reason? She just got drunk, you werent there, so she cheats.

 

Do you realize if thats the case, she has some serious issues. Like big issues! You cant fix them, and you can never ever trust that she will fix them on her own.

 

Whats the plan on kids for you two? Anything big coming up that she could be afraid of?

[lost4ever]

 

**

As for lost4ever's comments, I thought it was safe too considering the people invloved. I mean HR is there? I really did. I advised against it from a potential rumor standpoint. This is why I am here posting. There is something missing. A piece of the puzzle is just not in place and I can't get it. I'm with COBRA though on the 17 days. She didn't know what to do so she waited. She has voluntarily told me she that she would have confessed anyway because the guilt was killing her. Don't know if I believe that though. I'm also in agreement on the drip.. drip.. drip, spin thing too. She is trying to save face which doesn't really help us as a couple.

Telling a spouse of an affair is a BIG deal, their is alot to consider, I don't think it is unrational to think about the situation and figure out why you (as the cheater) did it before you tell all to the spouse

 

I'm not sure I understand the thought process here. If she had a crush on this other guy... then she knew not to put herself out there like that.

 

If she liked the guy like that she should not have went, but I don't know if the "I had a crush thing came out before or after, I don't think it did, I think it was an after thought (by her)

 

 

However, if she didnt have some kind of feelings for him... why would she go in the first place.

 

Come on Cobra, You have never kissed the bosses a$$, I know I would go to a party my boss was throwing, or talk about a football game I could care less about, just to get on the bosses good side, and I am sure you would too....he even said she thought it would help out her career

 

.

[Cobra_X30]

Come on Cobra, You have never kissed the bosses a$$, I know I would go to a party my boss was throwing, or talk about a football game I could care less about, just to get on the bosses good side, and I am sure you would too....he even said she thought it would help out her career

 

Are you kidding? My boss calls me the king of schmooze! Which is pretty true, I'm not really a rump kisser, but I really turn on the charm at work events!

 

But, here is the difference. I'm not going to a work event and letting myself get bombed! You drink too much and you look like a fool! Not good in front of upper management!

 

Besides I'm not pretty enough to sleep my way to the top!

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm taking notes, you are all bringing me tons of clarity. Thank you so much. whichwayisup: She's not as mad at him as she should be if she thinks the guy got her drunk at took advantage of her. She's only a little mad and that tells me maybe she's mad at the rejection? This explains the guilt driving her to think he can't be that bad of a guy.

I don't get it. Your W was possibly sexually assaulted and she's not "can't stand to be in the same state with him, much less the same office" mad???

 

Something going on...

 

Mr. Lucky