NoIDidn't Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Tony...ya know I have to ask you this....are you or ever been the OM? That wasn't exactly fair. He is a moderator and as a requirement of his "employment" with LS, I believe it to be fair of him to be and stay EXTREMELY neutral on the subject. Notice he doesn't give his personal opinion. I can respect that. To be a moderator requires the ability to push our personal views aside to allow for free discussion. Now, on the other boards like LJ alluded to, the Moderators are required to have been an OP and push the boards' agenda. Loveshack's agenda is free discussion. We can't have that if we exclude people from posting. Or accuse people of being OPs just because they choose not to make a negative judgment of their choices.
Ladyjane14 Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 The constant "this is our forum" refrain whenever a post is made that they disagree with what is said. So, I don't think that this forum legitimizes cheating, but it does in the eyes of those who feel it was created only for them. And people not on any side of the triangle respond strongly (judgmentally) to the same judgmental attitude displayed by many of the OP posters. Yeah, but the site doesn't moderate to that dynamic. So, even if there's an adjustment period for new posters, I think they eventually learn that opinions are permitted as long as they fit the broader guidelines of the TOS. I happened to be reading another board the other day, one of these "group-think" places... and the members there happened to be "burning a witch". (I had apparently happened upon 'witch-burning day' quite by chance, as the server here at LS was slow. ) ... And it's just SHOCKING to witness. Not only was it tolerated by the what seemed to be the majority of members, but it was moderated in such a way that dissenters seemed to be deliberately censored. I'd hate to see something like that here. It defeats the purpose of free exchanges of thought. (Thanks Tony. :))
Art_Critic Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 .whatever...and with alot of posters the answer is ...yes. Okay.. I did a quick rundown of this thread.. 3 posters said Yes that it does legitimize cheating. 16 say No it doesn't and 11 never answered the original thread topic... or I couldn't figure out what their feelings were about the OP
EnigmasMuse Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 I don't know that it really legitimizes it or not. But I do think by there being 3 forums, OW/OM forum, Infidelity and cheating/flirting/jealousy, is a bit much. There isn't 3 different relgious forums. Like one for God believers, one for, athisim, etc, its all in one forum. I'm sure they are ALL different to a degree, but at the same time alot of what is discussed is based on "cheating." Either being cheated on, or being the cheater. Or possibly being cheated on etc. I can see how some may think its legitimizes it and how to some it doesn't. I would think if a MM and his OW were to seek counseling together, that a counselor wouldn't talk them into continuing to being together. I don't think he would through them out on their a$$ either. Although I might be wrong, and there may have been times a MM and his OW or vice versa went to counseling.
jtalia Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 I know I did not come to LS to legitimize my cheating on my H. I came here because I was lost, ashamed, and needed to talk to someone. You can't trust everyone and I know that I didn't want to share this private information with someone who had the potential of telling. I came to LS to seek advice and to find out what I can do to get out of the A. Not all of us are proud to have had an A. I don't condone them either (obviously) but they happen. I am glad to know there is a place where I can come to get advice or support from people who have been in similar situations. I have already learned so much and have forced myself to be in NC with the MM by reading others stories of infidelity.
marlena Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Does talking about drugs legitimize them? Does talking about fascism condone it? For heaven's sake, affairs happen, always have and always will. They are a part of the reality of our lives and deserve as much attention as any other human relationship does, perhaps more so, as they are more complex. It would be a sad day indeed when freedom to voice an opinion, however "subversive" is stifled.
Impudent Oyster Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 I don't need legitimation. I do not feel any shame or self-loathing about being an OW, and my MM and I are very open about our R and very proud of it. You're "proud" to be the OW, you're "proud" of the fact that a marriage is breaking up and a family is being ripped apart? See what I mean..
Impudent Oyster Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Does a doctor who treats AIDS legitimize homosexuality and the use of nasty syringe needles? Does a doctor who treats heart disease legitimize high cholesterol diets and lack of exercise. . Of course not, but then again, I've yet to see a licensed professional on these boards dispensing advice. I do know doctors who absolutely blame their patients for their self-inflicted maladies. Let's not forget, people who choose to enter into affairs are volunteers, not victims. If being the OP is so stressful and traumatic, the solution is a simple one.
marlena Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 I do know doctors who absolutely blame their patients for their self-inflicted maladies. Then he is not a doctor. Let's not forget, people who choose to enter into affairs are volunteers, not victims On the same note, so are the wives who decide to stay with their cheating spouses!
Gwyneth Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 I didn't come here for "legitimation", I came to ask advice on a particular situation from others who could relate. I don't need legitimation. I do not feel any shame or self-loathing about being an OW, and my MM and I are very open about our R and very proud of it. I'm glad I am not the only one. Thank you, OWoman
Gwyneth Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Does a doctor who treats AIDS legitimize homosexuality and the use of nasty syringe needles? Does a doctor who treats heart disease legitimize high cholesterol diets and lack of exercise. Not every human's behavior will synchronize with our own. We can't shut out people on this forum because their morals are inconsistent with our own. I think it's really hypocritical for people who don't who say they don't condone infidelity to come into a category on that topic and give major lectures. It's like evangelists Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart and others who told their congregation week after week about the evils of adultery and then did the very thing before a national audience (Swaggart with a paid prostitute). If you don't like the behavior of a person coming to rant, to get it off their chest or to get advice just stay away...it's as simple as that. Lectures only strengthen their resolve and are not effective at all. The support people need who are in affairs is to get them through the ordeal because in most cases there is hell to pay but these are lessons they must learn on their own and nobody else can teach them except experience. They may need understanding and care more than others who come here. Thank you, Tony. I think that is the major problem around here--people who are against affairs come in here and want to start debates and lectures. I came here under the impression I'd be discussing my affair with OW/OM, not people who are against affairs.
Gwyneth Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 My theory is, if you do not accept cheating or want to hear about people having affairs and "bragging" about their affairs, then the best option would be Not to come into a room like this. Why? Because it will only upset you and your beliefs. I Loathe Angelina Jolie. Do I go into her forums and have debate with her fans as to why they should Not like her? Absolutely Not! Why? Because it would only aggravate me and cause me to begin arguments, lectures, and debates with fans who are in that forum to discuss the likes of Angie. That's just an example I can think of. I don't go into forums/rooms that I know I have no interest or business being in.
EnigmasMuse Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Then he is not a doctor. On the same note, so are the wives who decide to stay with their cheating spouses! I agree that a doctor probably wont tell a person its their fault why they have a physical aliment, just doesn't seem ethical, even though there might be some that do. A doctor probably wouldn't say, "Fred, all those years of you eating lots of fried chicken and not exercising is whats causing your artieries to clog etc." However if a doctor puts it in a different wording, then possibly the person might get what the doctor is saying, and once the doctor suggests makng a lifestyle change or breaking a habit that might be harmful, that person then has the choice to do that, after he gets advice from his doctor. Point is, it is the persons choice, and his consequences are brought on by his choices. Not the doctors. I also agree its up to a person to stay or get out. I'm glad I got out.
Impudent Oyster Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Then he is not a doctor. On the same note, so are the wives who decide to stay with their cheating spouses! He's not a doctor? (you assume it's a he, I have two close friends who are doctors, one male, one female), I guess his diploma is fake? Actually he's a bariatric surgeon, and you can better believe he blames his patients for eating themselves into morbid obesity. I agree, wives who stay with cheating spouses are volunteers, but I've YET to meet a wife who stays with a man who is cheating (that is, if she knows about it). If she doesn't know that he's cheating then she's definitely not volunteering. Do you know someone who KNOWS her husband is cheating and who lets him? Interesting.
luvmy2ns Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Are you trying to tell me that if a guy walks in to see his doctor and is having lousy circulation due to his heavy smoking, that his doctor shouldn't tell him it's because of the smoking? That if someone who is 300 lbs. needs their knees replaced at the age of 30 he shouldn't tell them to lose weight? Your doctor should be HONEST with you, even if it's something you don't want to hear.
Mustang Sally Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 You can add this vote to your count. Question: Does this forum legitimize cheating? My Opinion: No. Marlena - Your comment about what "makes" a doctor makes me laugh! Think about what you said there, and what IO's actual point was, for a minute....
EnigmasMuse Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Are you trying to tell me that if a guy walks in to see his doctor and is having lousy circulation due to his heavy smoking, that his doctor shouldn't tell him it's because of the smoking? That if someone who is 300 lbs. needs their knees replaced at the age of 30 he shouldn't tell them to lose weight? Your doctor should be HONEST with you, even if it's something you don't want to hear. Exactly my point I was trying to make above. I think its good that doctors tell their patients these kinds of things. Most people do not want to hear the truth from anyone,(which is where I think alot of the heating up comes from) even a dcotor who is trying to help them and tell them WHY their situation might be the way it is.
marlena Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 He's not a doctor? (you assume it's a he, I have two close friends who are doctors, one male, one female), I guess his diploma is fake? Irrelevant!! and you can better believe he blames his patients for eating themselves into morbid obesity. Repeat. A doctor (male or female. Satisfied?) who blames his patient for being ill IS not a doctor. I agree, wives who stay with cheating spouses are volunteers, but I've YET to meet a wife who stays with a man who is cheating (that is, if she knows about it). If she doesn't know that he's cheating then she's definitely not volunteering. What planet do you live on? Or are you a newbie to LS? Pahleeese!!! Do you know someone who KNOWS her husband is cheating and who lets him? Interesting If you are insinuating I might be that woman. Put this in you pipe and smoke it. When I found out my H was having an affair, I filed for divorce the very next day and handed him the O/W on a silver platter!!!! I never even considered any contact with her! You knoe something IO? You picked the perfect screen name for yourself! At least you got that right!!
Mustang Sally Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Does this forum legitimize cheating? After persuing some of the arguments presented here, it is my opinion, as previously stated, that "No, it does not." There is no way that something (be it legitimate or illegitimate) can be legitimized simply by having discourse about it. The legitimacy of an act or issue either IS or it ISN'T. It's innate. Now...does the forum (or it's frequent posters) rationalize the issue? That would be an entirely different question in my view. But then again, I'm just a simple-minded gal. I'm glad this forum exists. I have gained much valuable insight from it, FWIW.
marlena Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 I do know doctors who absolutely blame their patients for their self-inflicted maladies. The KEY word here is "blame". A doctor who respects his Hyppocratic oath will not "blame". The word blame has an accusatory connotation. He will not accuse his patient but rather point out what has to be done to improve his health.
EnigmasMuse Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 My dad has emphasyma from years and years of smoking. Sure, it was his choice to smoke. BUt my dad's doctor when he first diagnosed him with that, told my father it was from all those years of smoking, Which was probably a given, since that is usually what that comes from. So you feel it was wrong for the doctor to tell my father this? Of course my father already knew what it came from, but my point is, you feel its wrong that the doctor even said it to him?
PandorasBox Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 The KEY word here is "blame". A doctor who respects his Hyppocratic oath will not "blame". The word blame has an accusatory connotation. He will not accuse his patient but rather point out what has to be done to improve his health. Maybe the word BLAME shouldn't be used then. I don't think doctors BLAME, I think they can "discuss" with their patients what it is they may or may not have and what it that may or may not have contributed to whatever it is they have. I have known doctors to say, "You know Pandora, you really shouldn't keep running on that bad leg after I have told you not." Thats not really BLAME, its more of like a warning, of what I probably shouldn't be doing and if I do I will probably suffer because of it.
Impudent Oyster Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Irrelevant!! Repeat. A doctor (male or female. Satisfied?) who blames his patient for being ill IS not a doctor. What planet do you live on? Or are you a newbie to LS? Pahleeese!!! If you are insinuating I might be that woman. Put this in you pipe and smoke it. When I found out my H was having an affair, I filed for divorce the very next day and handed him the O/W on a silver platter!!!! I never even considered any contact with her! You knoe something IO? You picked the perfect screen name for yourself! At least you got that right!! I can't argue with illogical people.....No, I have never in my life met or known of a woman who remains married to a man who she knows is cheating on her. How many times do you want me to repeat myself? Are you confusing wives who forgive husbands who are no longer cheating? Because that is an entirely different thing. I will say that I'm getting a good laugh at the whole "doctors who blame their patients for SELF-INFLICTED maladies aren't doctors" rhetoric. It's highly amusing...'well gee Mr. Smith, you have advanced lung disease, but that 30 year old, 3 pack a day smoking habit of yours has nothing to do with it"...lol!
luvmy2ns Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Repeat. A doctor (male or female. Satisfied?) who blames his patient for being ill IS not a doctor. Now if you want to talk about an illness that they just so happened to get purely out of nowhere, sure. Of course. But if someone's lifestyle choices are going to kill them if they don't stop? OMG! Their doctor had best tell them how NOT to die.
luvmy2ns Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 The KEY word here is "blame". A doctor who respects his Hyppocratic oath will not "blame". The word blame has an accusatory connotation. He will not accuse his patient but rather point out what has to be done to improve his health. Semantics, pure and simple.
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