Ow Challenge...

[head.heart& hand]

I couldn't have said it better, thanks. BTW, can somebody tell this ditz (me) what an EMR is? And are you still with MM?

 

Hi White flower,

 

I am. Ready. ----Its been 5 1/2 years! There have been many changes over the years yet the short of it is that he separated ( over two years ago), took a job promotion an hour away from his fmaily ( 1 1/2 years ago), holds a completely separate household in his new location, yet is not divorced. When I write here, I'm sometimes tempted to write SNYD ( separated, not yet divorced) man, but I write mm-becuase legally he is still married.

[White Flower]

Wow, HHnH,

 

5 1/2 years? Damn. I don't know how you did it. I suppose him moving out and making it appear that he intended to be with you did the trick. I wonder if once he was out, he wanted a little more freedom before getting tied down again? Sorry if that's depressing.

 

Welcome to the club. We'll all get through this.

[BritishChic]

It isn't your place to tell his wife. I mean, while you were having an affair with her husband, when things were good between you and her husband, I'm sure thoughts of telling her never entered your mind, right?

 

Actually those thoughts did enter my mind. (You make me seem like I am this horrible OW that knowingly went with a married man behind her back, and personally I think thats unfair of you because you know little of my situation or what this guy was like...)

 

I did want to meet her. I wanted to meet her lots of times. This man that I was having lunch dates with, hid behind a firm stubborn notion that we were just friends. I admitted my feelings to him before we ever stepped out of our workplace together, and I thought in my mind that he had simply taken this information and put it on the back burner, desiring our friendship to grow..

As a side note, I thought he had feelings for me but couldn't admit it. I mean, he gave all the bloody non-verbal signs. So I decided that I would just go along with what he wanted and be his friend until he decided otherwise, if he would, I was willing to wait. To be honest, I didn't think highly of his wife. In fact, I had a very strong indication from him that he was bored and wanted out. He would never talk about her, when he did it would be something she did that would annoy him, and he never saw her;he disregarded her alot. It was almost as if he wasn't married. In a way, I wanted to meet her, to observe the 2 of them interacting so I could figure out what kind of part I played in his life in the first place...

 

 

What really sucked about my situation, is that I am a good person and I didn't intend on developing feelings for this individual. Who ever does?????It just happened and happened and happened and he was my boss...it wasn't like I could escape him! I emotionally tortured myself inside feeling 'wrong' for loving him. As long as that ring stayed on that finger I wasn't touching him; so I never did. And I am glad I didn't. At the time, when I started receiving attention from him, I was overwhelmed simply because he was a good looking guy and I thought I was out of his league. Now I have a higher regard for myself.

 

So to answer your question, yes I wanted her to know all the way through. I wanted to meet her, put a face to a name, introduce myself as his friend. I felt like **** because I kept thinking 'If I was her...' which is why I ended it; which is why I moved to another ****ing state and which is why I haven't picked up the phone and called him in two years and which is why I wanted closure, and lastly, which is why through my silent pain, I apologized to him for 'OUR BEHAVIOUR'

 

Lastly I wanted to know if she was okay with him having a friend to go to lunch with, of whom was female, single and who had never met her. I knew she wouldn't have okayed it. I wasn't okay with it either, but at the time I was being selfish and I wanted to see how far I could dig in his head and find me.. if I was ever there

 

He was one of those who wouldn't show his feelings if his legs were on fire...trust me, that didn't help.

 

Overal, I look back on this and I am truly bitter. I put everything I had on the line for my love for this person. He hid behind a 'friendship' but I knew he liked me to, I knew it. I never told him how I truly felt for him; because I kept thinking about all the people I would hurt and piss off if I did put myself first and tell him my feelings. I had to walk away, it was a lose lose situation. We both played with fire and I was the only one burned.

[nadiaj2727]

Hi White flower,

 

I am. Ready. ----Its been 5 1/2 years! There have been many changes over the years yet the short of it is that he separated ( over two years ago), took a job promotion an hour away from his fmaily ( 1 1/2 years ago), holds a completely separate household in his new location, yet is not divorced. When I write here, I'm sometimes tempted to write SNYD ( separated, not yet divorced) man, but I write mm-becuase legally he is still married.

 

Hi HH&H, I just found your post here (must have lost track of this particular thread for awhile) and I'm happy you've decided to end it after such a long time. Time to start making a happier life for yourself. In the beginning, my xMM told me he and his wife were "separated" and had both decided to get divorced before he even met me. Two months into our EA and about one month into our PA, he moved out into his own place. I was hooked b/c I believed him that they were divorcing (why wouldn't I? I loved him! Now I know better and will believe what I want to believe, not what a man wants me to believe.. but at the time, I genuinely believed everything he told me), and the fact that he was living on his own was "proof" that they were.

 

I didn't think we were having an affair, I thought I had met a man who was separated and in the process of getting divorced, and that we were in a relationship of our own. BUT... months went by and nothing else happened. (In my case he hadn't "truly" moved out completely, because almost all of his stuff and his dogs were at his house, and he would go there frequently to exchange divorce papers (yeah right... now I think that's a lie), pick up stuff he needed, get his dog whenever he went running,e tc.) I began to realize that he DID in fact still have a wife that he was still quite tied to. She still wore her wedding rings and no one knew they were separated!! It became obvious to me that he wanted it to appear to the WORLD that he was still married, but he wanted it to appear to me that he was divorcing (of course, b/c he knew I wouldn't stay with him if he wasn't... it was honestly never my intention to interfere with their marriage but I began to realize that's exactly what I had been doing since Day 1.)

 

I started to tell him I wanted to wait until he was divorced, and he would look me in the eye and tell me he WASN'T married, because he was separated. I said being separated is NOT being divorced, and he said yeah but it's NOT being married either. He told me he didn't FEEL married, so he wasn't (nice integrity...), that his therapist said he wasn't married (yeah I'm sure he told HER the truth about his situation), and that he had looked it up online and it said separated people weren't married. ?!!? (That's a new one... I looked up the same thing and found lots of reasons why women SHOULDN'T date separated men, b/c they ARE still quite married and quite confused! That's about the time I also found LS, realized that even though he had moved out he was feeding me a lot of the same lines any other MM feeds any other OW, and realized I was in an AFFAIR, not a real, true love relationship.)

 

So I understand how you could have stayed with him so long due to the fact that he's separated and it sounds quite separated (unlike my xMM)! Do you have any theories as to WHY he just doesn't get divorced if they are so separate?? Do you know what his wife thinks about all of this? Does she still consider them "married" or is she ok with the separation and dating other people? Does she or anyone else know about you? Sorry for my barrage of questions, I'm very curious as to how this situation would work. Regardless I'm proud of you for deciding to end it, I know it's hard especially after so long. Best wishes to you, you deserve a new chapter after all of this!!

[nadiaj2727]

It isn't your place to tell his wife. I mean, while you were having an affair with her husband, when things were good between you and her husband, I'm sure thoughts of telling her never entered your mind, right?

 

To be honest, I didn't think highly of his wife. In fact, I had a very strong indication from him that he was bored and wanted out. He would never talk about her, when he did it would be something she did that would annoy him, and he never saw her;he disregarded her alot. It was almost as if he wasn't married. In a way, I wanted to meet her, to observe the 2 of them interacting so I could figure out what kind of part I played in his life in the first place...

 

I think this sounds typical of men who are unhappily married and open/ available (even if they don't consciously "know it") to an affair. They start to wish they were single, and they start acting like it. My xMM didn't wear a wedding ring and didn't talk about his wife. When we first started working together and being attracted to each other, I had NO idea he was married. He would say things like "I have four dogs...". Well, one day his wife came to the office and people started saying "____'s wife is here" suddenly he had a wedding ring on! I was like, what, he's MARRIED, I had no clue! A lot of people at the office didn't know he was married either, and those that did said he doesn't like to announce the fact. After I knew he was married (and he knew I knew), he would correct himself when talking and say things like "I... well, we... have four dogs...."

 

At this point we had already begun an EA, and as it became more serious and then turned into a PA, he "confided" to me about all the rest (which I now realize was just a justification for both him and me to be indulging in this affair)... that they were separated (as in, living in different wings of the house), that they were like roommates, not husband and wife, that they had lived separate lives for a long time, that she didn't like a lot of things about him and he didn't like a lot of things about her, etc... It all seemed to make sense to me -- he didn't act married b/c they were barely married and didn't want to be married. But now I realize he is just one of the many unhappily married men who didn't bother to share the fact that he was unhappy with his wife, or at least not to the point where it involved working on their marriage instead of him "confiding" about it to me. He was having a mid-life crisis, he was bored, he wanted his ego stroke, and he enjoyed my attention until it became almost like an addiction (for both of us). I hear about this happening all the time now. I'm not saying he didn't have feelings for me that felt strong and real, it's just that he was already available to feel something for someone else because he was not happy in his marriage. That's fine but the problem is, he didn't realize he needed to work on being happier in his marriage or work on getting out of it... he wanted to keep the lifeless marriage and also the excitement of me on the side.

 

You are very smart Britishchic to have not let your affair get physical... I wish I would have been smarter and thought "well yeah I have these overwhelming feelings for this guy, but I shouldn't act on them until he's divorced." And I'm sure he was "burned" by playing with fire too... he has to stay in his lifeless marriage when he obviously would have preferred to pursue more with you. But like my xMM he isn't willing to work on HIMSELF and his problems before getting started with a new lady who makes him feel like superman.

[White Flower]

Hi Whiteflower....I do believe EMR is extra-marital relationship (at least that's how I read it! lol)

 

Your MM sounds like my (ex)MM...move forward/pull back! Uggghhh.........I wish I'd never gotten involved with him. Today I've got A LOT of anger toward him for pushing all sorts of buttons that didn't need to be pushed.........have to see him later to do a prep meeting for tomorrow........I almost want to call in sick! Don't want to see him right now - just want to stay angry!!!!!

 

It is so funny how we delude ourselves into thinking that we are being chased by MM because they put us above all else. Why do we do that? Why do we think they prefer us? I must admit it was a thrill even though I felt bad for his W. But, the proof is that she is above all else. And I am just an afterthought. And I have no voice in the matter.

__________________

 

Love what you said here. Want to add that despite ALL the reasons we know they make the worse partners, and despite all the times we feel bad for the W, and despite all the times we ask 'why doesn't she just leave his 'sorry a$$'? I wonder why we (OW) find it just as hard to walk away and why we still fall for the lines and the calls and all those things that make us feel SOOOO miserable after?

 

Sorry for the rant -----down day today!

Hi Katanya,

It's been a few days--are things better now?

[Tower]

I think I need to get on board...............He tells me to wait until after the holidays (wife found out in August).......he tells me he is "in love" with both of us (me & his wife-of 29 years), but can't leave until holidays are over (family obligations) and business deals are finalized.......

[luvmy2ns]

I think I need to get on board...............He tells me to wait until after the holidays (wife found out in August).......he tells me he is "in love" with both of us (me & his wife-of 29 years), but can't leave until holidays are over (family obligations) and business deals are finalized.......

 

Business deals? WTF!? What could that possibly have to do with the price of tea in China?

[White Flower]

I think I need to get on board...............He tells me to wait until after the holidays (wife found out in August).......he tells me he is "in love" with both of us (me & his wife-of 29 years), but can't leave until holidays are over (family obligations) and business deals are finalized.......

Hi Tower,

 

I don't know you're story but you and I are about the same age. (I checked your profile). Life is short and you need to find someone who is going to give you all of himself before it's too late! You deserve better.

[White Flower]

Hey Playbrat,

 

Haven't seen you in a while; how ya doing?

[mattym]

I think I need to get on board...............He tells me to wait until after the holidays (wife found out in August).......he tells me he is "in love" with both of us (me & his wife-of 29 years), but can't leave until holidays are over (family obligations) and business deals are finalized.......

 

Sorry, as lurking on this thread and that made me laugh. I thought I had told my OW some whoppers, but never used 'business deals'

 

Just as an assistance, for any of you OW doubting your MM's sincerity has he ever told you:

 

1. W and he sleep in seperate beds now

2. they live seperate lives only in the same house for financial reasons

3. never seemed a good time to leave - kids birthdays coming up etc

4. Shes told him that if he leaves she'll make it tough for him to see kids?

 

If so, just be warned. I told my OW all of that. I think they are fairly standard excuses ( men are nothing if not consistent)

 

And all of them were a crock...

 

take care of yourselves

 

Matt

[head.heart& hand]

Hi Nadia,

 

Yes, this has been a bit confusing when the mm is a SNYDM ( separated, not yet divorced man). Yet you're right, no matter which way you slice it, they're still married.

 

[quote=“Do you have any theories as to WHY he just doesn't get divorced if they are so separate”??

 

I think it’s comfortable for him. He has created enough separation to keep things well—separate. He can come and go as he pleases, visit his children in his former home as often as he wishes ( although he never stays past 10:00pm), carry on with a new kind of partnership with his wife, and then, go back to his new residence (out of town) to do whatever he'd like.

 

“Do you know what his wife thinks about all of this?

 

She does not know he's in another relationship! This has caused me to lose some respect for him. When I asked him, he told me she doesn’t question him at all---. I believe she considers them married and doesn’t want a divorce. She has never asked him if he is dating (she doesn’t date), and she doesn’t pressure him whatsoever. He has hidden our relationship from his w completely and most everyone else, though not everyone (one friend knows about me and a couple of his colleagues know that he dates as he’ll ask them to suggest pubs and restaurants when I’m in town). His closest colleagues know that he’s been separated a long time and think its normal for him to date, --so its not a big deal to them. Also, in thinking our relationship was moving forward, I did introduce him to my family.

 

If he was upfront with his wife and I was no longer a secret to his friends and family, it's likely we would still be in contact while he sorted through the legal end of this. In hiding things from his w, I can only assume the same on my end which makes me very uncomfortable and untrusting.

 

Another thing. A few posters have suggested that he might not take the final step to divorce his wife because he doesn't want to fully commit to me. I suppose this is a very possible theory. Even so, he should still move forward with integrity ( to begin with, by being forthright with his wife regarding his desire to see other woman).

[nadiaj2727]

Hi Nadia,

 

Yes, this has been a bit confusing when the mm is a SNYDM ( separated, not yet divorced man). Yet you're right, no matter which way you slice it, they're still married.

 

“Do you have any theories as to WHY he just doesn't get divorced if they are so separate”??

 

I think it’s comfortable for him. He has created enough separation to keep things well—separate. He can come and go as he pleases, visit his children in his former home as often as he wishes ( although he never stays past 10:00pm), carry on with a new kind of partnership with his wife, and then, go back to his new residence (out of town) to do whatever he'd like.

 

“Do you know what his wife thinks about all of this?

 

She does not know he's in another relationship! This has caused me to lose some respect for him. When I asked him, he told me she doesn’t question him at all---. I believe she considers them married and doesn’t want a divorce. She has never asked him if he is dating (she doesn’t date), and she doesn’t pressure him whatsoever. He has hidden our relationship from his w completely and most everyone else, though not everyone (one friend knows about me and a couple of his colleagues know that he dates as he’ll ask them to suggest pubs and restaurants when I’m in town). His closest colleagues know that he’s been separated a long time and think its normal for him to date, --so its not a big deal to them. Also, in thinking our relationship was moving forward, I did introduce him to my family.

 

If he was upfront with his wife and I was no longer a secret to his friends and family, it's likely we would still be in contact while he sorted through the legal end of this. In hiding things from his w, I can only assume the same on my end which makes me very uncomfortable and untrusting.

 

Another thing. A few posters have suggested that he might not take the final step to divorce his wife because he doesn't want to fully commit to me. I suppose this is a very possible theory. Even so, he should still move forward with integrity ( to begin with, by being forthright with his wife regarding his desire to see other woman).

 

Yep, it does not sound like he is living with much integrity right now. You are really smart to recognize this. I know you want a man with integrity, that's awesome. This guy could treat you like he's treating his wife one day -- and honestly, it doesn't sound like he's even treating you that great right now. It sounds like you thought he was one type of person, but found out he was quite another type. He is the type of person who hides things for his best interest, instead of doing what's necessary for the interests of those he cares about.

 

I understand how you got involved based on what you knew. But now you know new information/ facts, and I think you are very smart for changing your course of action once you learned this. If he's not divorced (whatever his many reasons might be), he's not the right guy for you. I think you will find a much better guy for you. Or he may divorce and you two can start really being together in a good, open, integral way. Either way, you're better off without him while he's not divorced. Stay strong. :)Are you in NC or what is the status? Just wondering.

[head.heart& hand]

[quote= )Are you in NC or what is the status? Just wondering.

 

NC.

[nellstar]

I want to take up this challenge. I have had enough of this affair. At the same time that I want to end it, I want to keep it going too but it is for the best if I ended it. MM is leaving his W but I just can't wait anymore. It's killing me. I can't take it emotionally. I'm so depressed...

[White Flower]

I want to take up this challenge. I have had enough of this affair. At the same time that I want to end it, I want to keep it going too but it is for the best if I ended it. MM is leaving his W but I just can't wait anymore. It's killing me. I can't take it emotionally. I'm so depressed...

Hi Nellstar and welcome.

 

Is it that MM says he is going to leave yet puts it off? Have you lost faith in him?

 

I understand about not being able to take it emotionally. Just when I think I've mustered up enough sense and strength to leave, I have a really emotional day. So hang in there, a strong and sensible day is on the horizon.

[nellstar]

Hi Nellstar and welcome.

 

Is it that MM says he is going to leave yet puts it off? Have you lost faith in him?

 

I understand about not being able to take it emotionally. Just when I think I've mustered up enough sense and strength to leave, I have a really emotional day. So hang in there, a strong and sensible day is on the horizon.

 

Hi White Flower, thank you. I am trying to hang in there. There are days where I am fine, like I can do whatever I want without thinking about us... but then comes a day or two where all I can think about is him and what we have gone through together.

 

He hasn't really put it off. We almost had a D-Day but we managed to avoid it. I want to end it... I know we're both hurting his wife... I have thought about it but he is truly a sweet man apart from the lies he told his wife and me too. I know it's stupid to think he is sweet, right?

[White Flower]

Hi White Flower, thank you. I am trying to hang in there. There are days where I am fine, like I can do whatever I want without thinking about us... but then comes a day or two where all I can think about is him and what we have gone through together.

 

He hasn't really put it off. We almost had a D-Day but we managed to avoid it. I want to end it... I know we're both hurting his wife... I have thought about it but he is truly a sweet man apart from the lies he told his wife and me too. I know it's stupid to think he is sweet, right?

Honey, sweet is sweet. My guy is sweet, too. He can't help it; it's just the way he is. I'd love to hate him and literally think of ways to end it in a mean way so that it would be easier for me/us to go no contact. But it's not like me to be mean so I teeter back and forth. I know he senses it coming, though. But don't beat yourself for saying he's sweet. They really can be. Hang in there.

 

Now I'm gonna go jump on Playbrat's new thread about boobies. Maybe we'll get a discount if we go in together...

[nellstar]

Honey, sweet is sweet. My guy is sweet, too. He can't help it; it's just the way he is. I'd love to hate him and literally think of ways to end it in a mean way so that it would be easier for me/us to go no contact. But it's not like me to be mean so I teeter back and forth. I know he senses it coming, though. But don't beat yourself for saying he's sweet. They really can be. Hang in there.

 

Now I'm gonna go jump on Playbrat's new thread about boobies. Maybe we'll get a discount if we go in together...

 

You really know what I'm going through, don't you? That's nice to know... am glad in fact because I always thought I have always been alone with this feelings I have about MM. You're spot on on the fact that men are sweet, single or not, some men are sweet.

 

I'm waiting for the moment that he is going off for the holidays. At this moment, he's making it hard for me to go NC. I have tried avoiding his calls but he knows where I live so he'd end up at my front door, checking to see if everything is fine. Just last night, he came because he didn't hear from me for 2 days and he got worried.

[nadiaj2727]

Hi White Flower, thank you. I am trying to hang in there. There are days where I am fine, like I can do whatever I want without thinking about us... but then comes a day or two where all I can think about is him and what we have gone through together.

 

He hasn't really put it off. We almost had a D-Day but we managed to avoid it. I want to end it... I know we're both hurting his wife... I have thought about it but he is truly a sweet man apart from the lies he told his wife and me too. I know it's stupid to think he is sweet, right?

 

 

Hi Nellstar, good luck with your decision, it's hard and I admire you. Yes, MM can be so sweet (and attentive, and good in bed, and coddling, etc.) But we need to look at the whole package, because they can also be liars (and self-centered and manipulative etc.) (I'm a former OW). There are so many sweet single men out there who have the whole package. Just think of that when you're going through a rough time... yes, you have feelings for him and had a relationship with him, but there is a better one for you down the road. Good luck hon!!!

[White Flower]

You really know what I'm going through, don't you? That's nice to know... am glad in fact because I always thought I have always been alone with this feelings I have about MM. You're spot on on the fact that men are sweet, single or not, some men are sweet.

 

I'm waiting for the moment that he is going off for the holidays. At this moment, he's making it hard for me to go NC. I have tried avoiding his calls but he knows where I live so he'd end up at my front door, checking to see if everything is fine. Just last night, he came because he didn't hear from me for 2 days and he got worried.

I take it you live close. MM and I live farther apart and he probably wouldn't show up like that. I suppose that's good in a way. I'm trying to look at the practical side of things...

 

Let me know when he leaves so I can keep messaging you to stay strong.

[nellstar]

Hi Nellstar, good luck with your decision, it's hard and I admire you. Yes, MM can be so sweet (and attentive, and good in bed, and coddling, etc.) But we need to look at the whole package, because they can also be liars (and self-centered and manipulative etc.) (I'm a former OW). There are so many sweet single men out there who have the whole package. Just think of that when you're going through a rough time... yes, you have feelings for him and had a relationship with him, but there is a better one for you down the road. Good luck hon!!!

 

Thank you Nadia. Good luck to you too. Oh I agree with you! MM can be sweet and so much more! I do see some of what he said that he has gone and showed it by acting on it but just the small things for now.

 

I don't know about there is a better one for me out there. I dated a couple of men now and then but none measured up to him, that is what makes it hard to end things with him.... but I have to be strong, right? I love it that I am getting the support I need from people on Loveshack especially you and White Flower... thank you!

[nellstar]

I take it you live close. MM and I live farther apart and he probably wouldn't show up like that. I suppose that's good in a way. I'm trying to look at the practical side of things...

 

Let me know when he leaves so I can keep messaging you to stay strong.

 

We live about 20 mins away from each other so that makes it easy for us both. You can imagine how hard it is to avoid him... he loves doing that. Showing up and surprise me with hugs and kisses, gifts... those I can live without, I can afford material things myself but those kisses.... the time we spent together.... the dreams... the talks.... those are what I will miss the most!

 

Thank you.... you're very kind to offer... this isn't easy at all! I don't think any relationship is!