Dante42 Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Rather a pompous title for my first post, I know... But I'm not into false modesty. Brutal fact of life is that some people are just a little further from the average than many and it is often a burden especially in regard to finding the special one. Those of us who don't respect the mores of society and am unable to follow the script where it doesn't make logical sense to our admittedly askew minds often struggle to fit in especially when the whole concept of "fitting in" almost invariably involves some measure of compromise of deeply considered principles. I have been married three times, numerous girlfriends and lovers (though never simultaneously) but I think I am most content when I am alone. I enjoy my own company and can quite happily go days without speaking to a soul. And yet "no man is an island unto himself" and sometimes late at night a quiet melancholy comes creeping like a gentle old friend and envelopes me in thoughts and musings of days past spent with lovers. Of strolling hand in hand with "the one" who I believed made me complete and who I would be with forever. Time and distance only lend greater poignancy to emails and jpgs, letters and photographs of happier times spent in the arms of another human being who made me feel.... such feelings I thought I would burst! But I have seen too many forevers come and go and I think the buddhists have the right idea that everything is transitory. A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, a spotty lonely teenager dreamed of a white picket fence surrounding a conventional loving nuclear family. He had such romantic ideals and dreams! But the harsh realities of real life and real relationships slowly and inexorably tore at those dreams until the tattered remnants no longer bore any resemblance to their beginnings. Intelligence is certainly no guaranty of wisdom (as my numerous failures can attest) but I used to think that wisdom came with age. I'm not sure any more. I have been told I am too world weary and cynical about love and perhaps there is some truth in that. It may be that seeing too clearly and too far is not conducive to peace of mind and it is better to live in a fog of happy illusion than to know the harsh truth. And yet... Of all the women I have loved, there was one that still shines so brightly in my heart that all the others fade to an indistinct grey. That ended a couple of years ago but while it is true that time heals all wounds, I find (to my consternation) I cannot budge her from her position in my heart. Perhaps it is a curse that having found in her a love I had never known existed, I am doomed to never find contentment in another. If I had never known her then I would never know what was possible and this ignorance would perhaps give me some peace and ability to commit to another. Because you see, since her, something seems to be broken inside. I have loved and known other women but because I cannot find in anyone else that precious and rare indescribable I discovered with her, I am unable to commit to long term. I suspect the future forward will be a continuation of the present and recent past as I walk the earth searching in vain to find what was lost. Before her I thought everyone was ultimately replacable and it is disturbing that it appears this is not so. I long ago gave up foolish romantic notions that there was one and only one soulmate for each of us however it seems I may have been too hasty. I refuse however to waste my life wallowing in self pity! I am a pretty cheerful sort in general but once in a while late at night I allow myself the luxury of surrender to this malaise that always exists in me (kind of like a herpes virus) It never goes away completely but for the most part I can ignore it. I wonder how many people ultimately live without the one they truly loved? I don't mean being heart broken for a few months and getting over it, everyone has been there. I'm talking about to have experienced a relationship unlike any other before or since where you felt understood and totally accepted, like the other person fitted you so intimately and no thoughts needed to be hidden. A love complete that made all others pale into insignificance. To have found that and lost it, to go on and live and love again and yet knowing deep down that you are never again likely to experience what you had with that person, how does it make you feel? Doesn't this history make it impossible to find the kind of intimacy necessary for a long term commitment? I mean this is part of your past you can never be completely honest about to your current partner as no one could stand to hear they don't quite measure up to an ex. It is one of life's many ironies that the greater your knowledge, so is your ignorance.
KittenMoon Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Indulge me. What are your flaws as a person when it comes to relationships?
Author Dante42 Posted November 13, 2007 Author Posted November 13, 2007 Indulge me. What are your flaws as a person when it comes to relationships? Many and varied! I tend to focus too much on whatever project I am working on to the exclusion of all else. It's something I am aware of and I try not to let it get out of hand but awareness of a defect does not make it go away. I tend to be something of a homebody and don't like going out much. I abhor watching sport and drinking and the whole bar scene is a complete bore to me. So many would consider me somewhat boring to live with. But probably my most serious defect is my inability to commit. My most recent relationship ended because she wanted to settle down and cohabitate and I wasn't ready for that and didn't know if or when I would be ready and of course I made that clear to her as if you don't have complete honesty then you don't have a relationship of any substance anyway. I don't get angry and shout which was regarded as a defect by one girlfriend I had who was very much into shouting and carrying on. My reaction when in a relationship fight is to go all turtle like and be very quiet and wait for the storm to blow over so we can talk calmly and resolve the issues. I have found however that when she is upset, it seems that anything I say only serves to inflame passions further though saying nothing also makes it worse but I feel the latter is the lesser of two evils. I probably need too much solitude which is often not conducive to a healthy relationship. I am often at a loss to know how to help when she is upset. I am too often guilty of the frequently male trait of suggesting solutions when what is needed is sympathy and understanding. I try to be aware of this shortcoming but it is too easy to slip into old habits. I try to be aware of my faults and do what I can but I cannot completely negate them. The only relationship I had that really really worked was the one I alluded to in my first post. That ended due to a sequence of unfortunate unlikely absurd events too far fetched to appear in even the silliest daytime soap. But while it lasted, we were both pretty darn happy.
Kasan Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I wonder how many people ultimately live without the one they truly loved? I don't mean being heart broken for a few months and getting over it, everyone has been there. I'm talking about to have experienced a relationship unlike any other before or since where you felt understood and totally accepted, like the other person fitted you so intimately and no thoughts needed to be hidden. A love complete that made all others pale into insignificance. To have found that and lost it, to go on and live and love again and yet knowing deep down that you are never again likely to experience what you had with that person, how does it make you feel? Doesn't this history make it impossible to find the kind of intimacy necessary for a long term commitment? I mean this is part of your past you can never be completely honest about to your current partner as no one could stand to hear they don't quite measure up to an ex. I think that it happens more than you think. We all have a "one that got away" relationship that we don't share with our partners. We also have our what ifs, could have beens, and why didn't its. Maybe it's just bad timing or insurmountable problems that we feel can't be resolved during the relationship. I dust my memories off from time to time but in the end, I am always grateful that I am, where I am now. As wild and crazy as that relationship was, I didn't enjoy the crashing and burning that I knew was inevitable in the relationship...and I did crash and burn. I have found that you can love many people differently--some more deeply than others, but in the end it's still love.
Author Dante42 Posted November 13, 2007 Author Posted November 13, 2007 I think that it happens more than you think. We all have a "one that got away" relationship that we don't share with our partners. We also have our what ifs, could have beens, and why didn't its. Maybe it's just bad timing or insurmountable problems that we feel can't be resolved during the relationship. I dust my memories off from time to time but in the end, I am always grateful that I am, where I am now. As wild and crazy as that relationship was, I didn't enjoy the crashing and burning that I knew was inevitable in the relationship...and I did crash and burn. I have found that you can love many people differently--some more deeply than others, but in the end it's still love. Now there's words of wisdom:) I think timing is incredibly important in life and often one you have no control over. I am reasonably happy with where I am in life and what I have achieved but at least 50% of the credit goes to dumb luck. Indeed every new love is a subtle shade different. I envy those few who not only find their soulmate, but get to keep them!
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Brutal fact of life is that some people are just a little further from the average than many and it is often a burden especially in regard to finding the special one. Elitists create their own elitism...
Author Dante42 Posted November 13, 2007 Author Posted November 13, 2007 Elitists create their own elitism... They're the only ones who can....
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 They're the only ones who can.... Why do it? While it may give you a sense of being special, it doesn't make you any more happy.
Kasan Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Now there's words of wisdom:) I think timing is incredibly important in life and often one you have no control over. I am reasonably happy with where I am in life and what I have achieved but at least 50% of the credit goes to dumb luck. Indeed every new love is a subtle shade different. I envy those few who not only find their soulmate, but get to keep them! I very much believe in luck and sometimes good things can happen for the wrong reasons. I feel that luck has played an important part in my marriage--I am lucky that the problems that we have faced together have not fractured us like some other couples that we know. I believe that you end up exactly where you are supposed to be with the people you are supposed to be with in this life. And...I don't believe there is such a thing as a soulmate.
KittenMoon Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Elitists create their own elitism... Amen to that! Dante- you might think you're ahead of the curve, but you pretty much sound like any number of guys out there. You're saying the same thing, in fancier words. But what it all boils down to is learning to communicate with and resolve conflict with an individual. If you really to find that special person AND keep them, reflect on how the choices you make in a situation affect that situation. You've got some ground on that already- at least you realize your clamming up with the outspoken gf probably was the complete wrong tactic, and that sometimes you offer suggestion where only sympathy is needed. Why not address some specific situations and think about how you could have acted differently- ie instead of letting your choices be about YOU, try to see them as being about "US". When it comes down to it, most people act like most others, no matter how smart or dumb or whatever, they are. Just like a cake is fundamentally a cake, whether it's from a box mix, or made by a 3-star pastry chef.
KittenMoon Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 They're the only ones who can.... Does being like "everyone else" make you uncomfortable? What's so bad about it?
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 When it comes down to it, most people act like most others, no matter how smart or dumb or whatever, they are. Just like a cake is fundamentally a cake, whether it's from a box mix, or made by a 3-star pastry chef. Exactly. When people are looking for a prospective mate, they all tend to do the same things and make the same mistakes. Emotion drives the stupidity in all of us.
blind_otter Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Exactly. When people are looking for a prospective mate, they all tend to do the same things and make the same mistakes. Emotion drives the stupidity in all of us. Word. And it's a mistake to deny that fundamental ability to be stupid in all of us.
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Word. And it's a mistake to deny that fundamental ability to be stupid in all of us. When I look back at some of the stupid things I've done in the past, including believing a "grass is greener", kind of guy, I could kick myself and at the same time, laugh at my own idiocy. Dante42, don't take this too harshly. I think what everyone is trying to tell you is that neither you nor the one and only person for you, is any different than the next person. In allocating "specialness" to anyone, you limit and potentially hurt yourself through isolation.
Author Dante42 Posted November 14, 2007 Author Posted November 14, 2007 While I consider myself advanced in many ways, I certainly lay no such claim when it comes to the relationship realm. In fact based on my history it could be argued I possess less than average competence in this area. The purpose of my (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) post, was to see how common it is that people actually find the one and only but ultimately go on to live without that one. Ultimately to be with another who can never know that part of one's history and thus limit the depth of intimacy possible. Also to invite discussion. Get over yourself. I wish I could but some peaks are just too high to surmount
KittenMoon Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 While I consider myself advanced in many ways, I certainly lay no such claim when it comes to the relationship realm. In fact based on my history it could be argued I possess less than average competence in this area. The purpose of my (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) post, was to see how common it is that people actually find the one and only but ultimately go on to live without that one. Ultimately to be with another who can never know that part of one's history and thus limit the depth of intimacy possible. Also to invite discussion. Sounding intelligent does not make you intelligent- No matter how cleverly you string your words together.
Author Dante42 Posted November 14, 2007 Author Posted November 14, 2007 Sounding intelligent does not make you intelligent- No matter how cleverly you string your words together. Sigh. Too often, being gifted with a greater than average vocabulary, rather than enhancing communication, leads to abuse. I don't talk this way to "show off" I know it makes me look like an ass to some people. However I refuse to compromise, to deliberately talk in a manner contrary to how I think. I recognise there exist both smarter and dumber people than myself and a vocabulary is not necessarily a determining indicator of intelligence. I'm sure in this aspect at least you would readily agree:p
underpants Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 It sounds as though your mind might dwell a bit on loss rather then what you have. Perhaps it is safer to pine for what was destroyed rather then focus, appreciate and value what you have when you have it. Were you legally married those three times? Also, what sordid things transpired to end the relationship with as you put it 'the one'? Patterns will repeat themselves until you recognize and gain the courage and follow through to change them for yourself.
KittenMoon Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 Sigh. Too often, being gifted with a greater than average vocabulary, rather than enhancing communication, leads to abuse. I don't talk this way to "show off" I know it makes me look like an ass to some people. However I refuse to compromise, to deliberately talk in a manner contrary to how I think. I recognise there exist both smarter and dumber people than myself and a vocabulary is not necessarily a determining indicator of intelligence. I'm sure in this aspect at least you would readily agree:p Of course you refuse to give ground. Ever think maybe this is a problem? A little compromise goes a long way, in most situations.
Author Dante42 Posted November 14, 2007 Author Posted November 14, 2007 Of course you refuse to give ground. Ever think maybe this is a problem? A little compromise goes a long way, in most situations. I thought I responded maturely to the implied insult but perhaps I was mistaken. To answer your question, yes I have pondered the area of compromise in relationships. I don't believe in compromising one's beliefs but I do think I readily compromise and bend a long way to maintain a harmonious relationship. However if you compromise too far you can make the other person happy at the expense of your own happiness and this can't be maintained for long. I'm extremely easy going and I don't think I lack the ability to compromise but it's impossible to say for sure. An example. One of the women I married was from Brazil and she wanted us to move back there permanently and I said I would love that too but I couldn't promise absolutely I would be able to do that at least until my daughter (from a previous marriage) was old enough such that I didn't feel she needed me so much. I was torn between wanting to make my wife happy and the obligation I felt to my daughter. I am a strong believer in honesty in relationships and so couldn't promise absolutely when we would be able to relocate. This wasn't a major issue but was one that she never seemed to understand. To some extent she always resented it. She felt that she should come first. I tried to explain that I wasn't really free to give her what she wanted in this instance because to do so would compromise my own feeling of self worth. I would feel like I was abandoning my daughter who at the time wasn't very happy with her mother who she lived with most of the time. So yes I do believe compromise is a vital part of a healthy relationship but there are limits to how far you can go.
reboot Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 Wow! I can so totally relate to you! I too was once elite! Unfortunately, I grew up.
shadowplay Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 Sigh. Too often, being gifted with a greater than average vocabulary, rather than enhancing communication, leads to abuse. I don't talk this way to "show off" I know it makes me look like an ass to some people. However I refuse to compromise, to deliberately talk in a manner contrary to how I think. I recognise there exist both smarter and dumber people than myself and a vocabulary is not necessarily a determining indicator of intelligence. I'm sure in this aspect at least you would readily agree:p I really hope you're being sarcastic. There's a difference between sounding intelligent and downright pompous. Perhaps if you were a bit smarter you would part with some of your purple prose in the interest of clarity.
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