Phateless Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 It's up to you guys to define which one it is. After all, you're doing the asking. If we go out of our way to talk to you often, invite you out for coffee, and ask for your number, how much more obvious can we be? It's just girls who are either very dense or choosing to be oblivious.
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 You're exactly right. I talk to people all the time without the intention of dating them. In those cases, if they mention the bf, NOTHING HAPPENS. It's an irrelevant detail so there's no harm in mentioning it and we continue the conversation pleasantly. If I am interested, it IS a relevant detail. No matter how you rationalize it, it makes more sense to include the detail than not. You're putting the onus on women to make the assumption that every man is interested in her, for more than a person-to-person discussion. I disagree that you include irrelevant information in a regular conversation. Shall I always tell everyone I have a cat in every conversation, just in case they're allergic to cats? (Hush oppath...)
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 If we go out of our way to talk to you often, invite you out for coffee, and ask for your number, how much more obvious can we be? It's just girls who are either very dense or choosing to be oblivious. Say you're a student in a study group. If your partner is male, going out for coffee and keeping some form of communication is normal behaviour.
oppath Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 If we go out of our way to talk to you often, invite you out for coffee, and ask for your number, how much more obvious can we be? It's just girls who are either very dense or choosing to be oblivious. If I'm making any move to spend time with you, I should know you have a boyfriend regardless if it is a dating context or a friendship context. The only way around that is if it is clearly a profressional context. I will still talk to you if you have a boyfriend. THe girl from my camping trip, I'm not mad at her, I was just surprised. I still would have said "when I am on campus would you like to grab a beer?" I just found it odd that in several hours of solo and group conversation, I never heard BF mentioned. I wouldn't say it was my problem as a man, I would say it is her problem as a woman. In fact, she seemed to hesitate before telling me about the boyfriend. There was conflict on her face and while it was probably just her not wanting to disappoint me, it was almost as if she were debating to reveal her bf. She said "just so you know, I find it is best if guys know upfront." "Of course it is best to know up front!" It really almost seemed as if she was not going to tell me about the boyfriend but decided to in case I put moves on her. Actually, I can understand her behavior, because I wasn't actively flirting with her. I was not mad or angry. I just found it ODD that in several hours over a weekend, her boyfriend was never mentioned. I'm still going to invite her for a coffee/beer...but I'll tell her to bring her grad school friends too!
Phateless Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 You're putting the onus on women to make the assumption that every man is interested in her, for more than a person-to-person discussion. I disagree that you include irrelevant information in a regular conversation. Shall I always tell everyone I have a cat in every conversation, just in case they're allergic to cats? (Hush oppath...) not necessarily. it's just information that might turn out to be relevant. and even if she is assuming that, so what? it's better than the alternative of hiding the bf. it's not like we're asking women to start a conversation with "i have a bf, go away" you still haven't given a reason for hiding him. And how can you compare having a cat to having a bf? He's not interested in being your pet, he's interested in being your bf. Say you're a student in a study group. If your partner is male, going out for coffee and keeping some form of communication is normal behaviour. If he singles you out to have coffee just the two of you, damn right it's relevant at that point. the bf doesn't make any difference to me on a friendship, but i want to know he exists so that i can choose not to pursue her and cause an awkward situation. you just haven't given any good reason NOT to mention it when it's easy to casually do so without seeming like you think he wants you.
oppath Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Say you're a student in a study group. If your partner is male, going out for coffee and keeping some form of communication is normal behaviour. If I were spending HOURS studying with someone, I'd expect a BF (or a gf if a guy was part of that group) to come up in conversation at some point, for example, "let's take a break from this problem and go grab a coffee." She is not obligated to say "just so you know, I have a boyfriend." Of course not. That is ridiculous. But it is more ridiculous that over the course of studying for an hour or two, punctuated by a coffee break, perhaps over the course of a couple weeks...that the boyfriend is never mentioned.
Phateless Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 If I'm making any move to spend time with you, I should know you have a boyfriend regardless if it is a dating context or a friendship context. The only way around that is if it is clearly a profressional context. I will still talk to you if you have a boyfriend. THe girl from my camping trip, I'm not mad at her, I was just surprised. I still would have said "when I am on campus would you like to grab a beer?" I just found it odd that in several hours of solo and group conversation, I never heard BF mentioned. I wouldn't say it was my problem as a man, I would say it is her problem as a woman. In fact, she seemed to hesitate before telling me about the boyfriend. There was conflict on her face and while it was probably just her not wanting to disappoint me, it was almost as if she were debating to reveal her bf. She said "just so you know, I find it is best if guys know upfront." "Of course it is best to know up front!" It really almost seemed as if she was not going to tell me about the boyfriend but decided to in case I put moves on her. Actually, I can understand her behavior, because I wasn't actively flirting with her. I was not mad or angry. I just found it ODD that in several hours over a weekend, her boyfriend was never mentioned. I'm still going to invite her for a coffee/beer...but I'll tell her to bring her grad school friends too! Thank you! That's exactly what I'm talking about. I just want to be able to make the call for myself instead of operating WITHOUT relevant information. I hang out with girls who have BFs too, but I know ahead of time not to try run any "game" on them. It's a different kind of relationship and we need to know how to progress it.
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 not necessarily. it's just information that might turn out to be relevant. and even if she is assuming that, so what? it's better than the alternative of hiding the bf. it's not like we're asking women to start a conversation with "i have a bf, go away" you still haven't given a reason for hiding him. And how can you compare having a cat to having a bf? He's not interested in being your pet, he's interested in being your bf. I'm not arrogant enough to believe that every single guy who talks to me, has other reasons to do so, beyond striking up a simple conversation. As it stands, I don't date people who I don't know well, therefore, the entire issue is moot. If he singles you out to have coffee just the two of you, damn right it's relevant at that point. the bf doesn't make any difference to me on a friendship, but i want to know he exists so that i can choose not to pursue her and cause an awkward situation. you just haven't given any good reason NOT to mention it when it's easy to casually do so without seeming like you think he wants you. It's just as easy to ask the girl, if you're interested in her. When you make your interest known, then, it's a whole nother ballgame. Once you've made your interest known, beyond wanting friendship, she needs to speak up, if you haven't asked the question, which I feel, the guy should ask anyways.
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 If I were spending HOURS studying with someone, I'd expect a BF (or a gf if a guy was part of that group) to come up in conversation at some point, for example, "let's take a break from this problem and go grab a coffee." She is not obligated to say "just so you know, I have a boyfriend." Of course not. That is ridiculous. But it is more ridiculous that over the course of studying for an hour or two, punctuated by a coffee break, perhaps over the course of a couple weeks...that the boyfriend is never mentioned. If he's not pertinent in a study situation, why would he come up? In a study situation, if it was another woman, I wouldn't mention it, unless the conversation were to steer in that direction. For example, what did you do last weekend? I caught a movie with my b/f.
Phateless Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I'm not arrogant enough to believe that every single guy who talks to me, has other reasons to do so, beyond striking up a simple conversation. As it stands, I don't date people who I don't know well, therefore, the entire issue is moot. If you have a bf you're not thinking about dating anybody! So why get to know him better before telling him you have a bf? It just doesn't make any sense. If you would admit "I like the attention and flirting from other guys" then I would drop it, at least you're being honest. I still think that's unfair to the guy but it's better than hiding behind weak rationalizations. I greatly respect your opinion, TBF, you always have sage advice. That's why I'm surprised that you seem to be dancing around the main issue here. It's just as easy to ask the girl, if you're interested in her. When you make your interest known, then, it's a whole nother ballgame. Once you've made your interest known, beyond wanting friendship, she needs to speak up, if you haven't asked the question, which I feel, the guy should ask anyways. True, and sometimes I do. But we all know that guys have to be careful not to seem too forward or creepy, lest we scare her off. I don't want her to think "I only met this guy an hour ago and he already wants to date me". Being that direct is a nice notion, but it's seldom effective. I've had girls ask me if I have a girlfriend and then proceed to ask me why not. It puts me on the spot... it's too much. When I had a gf, I'd usually mention her pretty quick, just to get that out of the way. The longer you wait to mention a SO, the more awkward it will be.
Phateless Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 If he's not pertinent in a study situation, why would he come up? In a study situation, if it was another woman, I wouldn't mention it, unless the conversation were to steer in that direction. For example, what did you do last weekend? I caught a movie with my b/f. That kind of mention is all we're asking for. It just seems that a lot of girls go out of their way to hide it until they have to mention him, like Opp's camping girl. Perfect example. As for group things, I don't think it's necessary to mention it until a guy singles you out and gives you more attention than other girls. In a one-on-one interaction, I think it's always good to mention it when the opportunity arises. In a way, of course, that's casual enough that you don't seem arrogant.
Phateless Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I like to be informed so that I can be respectful. To me, it's rude to hit on a girl who's taken.
oppath Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 If he's not pertinent in a study situation, why would he come up? In a study situation, if it was another woman, I wouldn't mention it, unless the conversation were to steer in that direction. For example, what did you do last weekend? I caught a movie with my b/f. I've never been in a study situation where those topics of conversation did not come up. Usually it is in the form of "I need to leave by 6 to go have dinner with my boyfriend" or "I'm so glad I'm done with this assignment, my boyfriend and I are going to XYZ this weekend and I wouldn't have had time to finish it." What Phateless, Krytie and I are saying is that there are often numerous times in a conversation where a boyfriend or girlfriend can easily be inserted, not as a "I have a boyfriend, just so you know" method to make us back off, but as a "this is what is going on in my life." We are simply surprised that when talking to women about their lives, about their weekends, about things in general, that a boyfriend is not mentioned during those inquiries. Again, if I am talking to you for 1/2 hour, if it is a personal conversation, how could you not mention your boyfriend at some point, if only fleetingly?
sb129 Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 LOL - D_C is right. I tell any guy that I have a BF after 5 or 10 mins into conversation. It's an information that I wouldn't want to hide. Telling a guy that I am in a serious relationship shows that I respect my BF and our relationship. I talk about Wonderboy all the time. To be honest, I can't say whether anyone has flirted with me or not since we got together. I wouldn't have noticed. Krytie, did the girl who is engaged not have an engagement ring on? I flash mine as much as possible at the moment.
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 If you have a bf you're not thinking about dating anybody! So why get to know him better before telling him you have a bf? It just doesn't make any sense. If you would admit "I like the attention and flirting from other guys" then I would drop it, at least you're being honest. I still think that's unfair to the guy but it's better than hiding behind weak rationalizations. I greatly respect your opinion, TBF, you always have sage advice. That's why I'm surprised that you seem to be dancing around the main issue here.I see the main issue as bringing up irrelevant information in a conversation, when someone could simply be friendly. Let's look at how you and I are communicating right now. If I had a boyfriend or SO, do you feel I should mention it now? True, and sometimes I do. But we all know that guys have to be careful not to seem too forward or creepy, lest we scare her off. I don't want her to think "I only met this guy an hour ago and he already wants to date me". Being that direct is a nice notion, but it's seldom effective. I've had girls ask me if I have a girlfriend and then proceed to ask me why not. It puts me on the spot... it's too much. When I had a gf, I'd usually mention her pretty quick, just to get that out of the way. The longer you wait to mention a SO, the more awkward it will be. If you're concerned about technique, just ask her what she did the past weekend. Then gently tease her about the b/f. She'll pipe up if she doesn't have one.
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 That kind of mention is all we're asking for. It just seems that a lot of girls go out of their way to hide it until they have to mention him, like Opp's camping girl. Perfect example. As for group things, I don't think it's necessary to mention it until a guy singles you out and gives you more attention than other girls. In a one-on-one interaction, I think it's always good to mention it when the opportunity arises. In a way, of course, that's casual enough that you don't seem arrogant. Hiding it is a form of lying by omission. Irrelevance is just that. I've never been in a study situation where those topics of conversation did not come up. Usually it is in the form of "I need to leave by 6 to go have dinner with my boyfriend" or "I'm so glad I'm done with this assignment, my boyfriend and I are going to XYZ this weekend and I wouldn't have had time to finish it." What Phateless, Krytie and I are saying is that there are often numerous times in a conversation where a boyfriend or girlfriend can easily be inserted, not as a "I have a boyfriend, just so you know" method to make us back off, but as a "this is what is going on in my life." We are simply surprised that when talking to women about their lives, about their weekends, about things in general, that a boyfriend is not mentioned during those inquiries. Again, if I am talking to you for 1/2 hour, if it is a personal conversation, how could you not mention your boyfriend at some point, if only fleetingly? I don't get too personal with people I don't know, except on LS, that is.
oppath Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 If you're concerned about technique, just ask her what she did the past weekend. Then gently tease her about the b/f. She'll pipe up if she doesn't have one. NO NO NO! This is exactly what we are saying. As men, we'll ask questions like this, hear nothing about a boyfriend, and then ask for her number thinking she is single, only to be told "I have a boyfriend." Then we are left thinking, "I asked you a half dozen personal questions about your weekend, where you live, your friends, etc, all of which I would mention a girlfriend (if I had one) if they were asked to me, so why didn't you mention you had one then when it would have been natural?" I don't get too personal with people I don't know, except on LS, that is. that is because I haven't approached you in public yet . I have a way of getting personal quickly in non creepy ways. Don't think you'd be immune, TBF! Chances are I'd learn what ethinicity lover you think is best and your favorite sexual position in 20 minutes. Why? Because I just operate like that.
Phateless Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I see the main issue as bringing up irrelevant information in a conversation, when someone could simply be friendly. Which is worse, saying one irrelevant thing, or having someone hit on you while you're taken? Let's look at how you and I are communicating right now. If I had a boyfriend or SO, do you feel I should mention it now? If you're concerned about technique, just ask her what she did the past weekend. Then gently tease her about the b/f. She'll pipe up if she doesn't have one. You and I are a moot point because it's unlikely that we'll ever meet in person and I'm not investing anything in you in the real world. In person, it's different if you spend time trying to pursue someone when they think you're just being friendly. If this conversation were happening in person I would appreciate it if you mention a bf if you have one. As for technique, that's exactly what I did with the swing dancing girl. She didn't admit she had a bf until I asked "why are your weekend always so busy?" and she slowly answered "i have a boyfriend........". I could tell she felt guilty for not mentioning him before and I totally busted her on it. But it didn't change the tone of our conversation at all. I was still friendly and continued talking to her and ended with "i enjoyed talking to you, i'll see you around"
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I'm laughing with both of you. Admit it. Both of you are always scoping out the chicks...
Phateless Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I'm laughing with both of you. Admit it. Both of you are always scoping out the chicks... Constantly!!! I'm always on the cruise for booty, and throwing out smart remarks to see who responds. If a girl responds and flirts back, I want her to tell me she has a bf. If she doesn't, I assume that means because she kinda likes me and doesn't want me to stop talking to her, which is no fair to me or her bf.
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Constantly!!! I'm always on the cruise for booty, and throwing out smart remarks to see who responds. If a girl responds and flirts back, I want her to tell me she has a bf. If she doesn't, I assume that means because she kinda likes me and doesn't want me to stop talking to her, which is no fair to me or her bf. There you go. That's why this is so pertinent to you. I'll tell you what I do. If I sense any interest and I'm previously committed, the information is almost the first thing that comes out of my mouth. If I don't get a sense of interest, I don't bother.
oppath Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I'm laughing with both of you. Admit it. Both of you are always scoping out the chicks... I'm like a pirate...arrrrrrgggghhhhh, give me some booty! Chances are if I am talking to you, and I keep talking to you, I am interested. If I find you interesting, regardless of a boyfriend, I will keep talking to you. All I know is that when I had a gf, and women would hit on me!!!!, my gf would come into conversation right away. I have a girl or two I need to call up who I think have bf's but didn't make it clear (a friends insinuated they did but that friend was also 45 and asked for my number within 2 minutes because I was cute, so I don't trust her as a reliable 'she has a bf' source). I am still going to call and ask them out . I'm just going to do it at lunch time so he is unlikely to be there!
oppath Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 There you go. That's why this is so pertinent to you. I'll tell you what I do. If I sense any interest and I'm previously committed, the information is almost the first thing that comes out of my mouth. If I don't get a sense of interest, I don't bother. Only because you haven't met Phateless and I yet, TBF. If you did, you'd sense interest. How could we not be interested in someone like you :love: ?
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I'm like a pirate...arrrrrrgggghhhhh, give me some booty! Chances are if I am talking to you, and I keep talking to you, I am interested. If I find you interesting, regardless of a boyfriend, I will keep talking to you. All I know is that when I had a gf, and women would hit on me!!!!, my gf would come into conversation right away. I have a girl or two I need to call up who I think have bf's but didn't make it clear (a friends insinuated they did but that friend was also 45 and asked for my number within 2 minutes because I was cute, so I don't trust her as a reliable 'she has a bf' source). I am still going to call and ask them out . I'm just going to do it at lunch time so he is unlikely to be there! See, I rest my case with both of you.
Trialbyfire Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Only because you haven't met Phateless and I yet, TBF. If you did, you'd sense interest. How could we not be interested in someone like you :love: ? Flirt...
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