Jump to content
While the thread author can add an update and reopen discussion, this thread was last posted in over a month ago. Want to continue the conversation? Feel free to start a new thread instead!

Recommended Posts

Posted

I really did not know where to post this but this topic has been on my mind for a few days. I don't understand why people (I've done it too in the past) judge other people. Who are we to say how we live is the better way to live and how others are living is not valid? Okay, so most people make mistakes in life, what makes others feel that the person who made a mistake is undeserving of some empathy?

 

I work in a professional office as an assistant. One of the professionals was recently suspended, without pay, from work for second DWI charge. He has been an excellent worker, a friend, a provider (from what I can see) and a father. I know that he's marriage is falling apart in the most horrible way but he never brought his personal life to work. When I found out that he was being let go, the attitude of other workers were unbelievable to me. Behind his back, they judged him harshly and made him out to look like such a bad person....behind his back!!! While hugging him and telling him to get well and things will all fall into place. Now, I'm not saying he shouldn't have lost his job or that he should be driving while under the influence...I am just saying that I don't see him as a bad person but rather a troubled person. He is a very kind hearted man who would do anything for anyone. He is just going through some troubled times and everyone in the office seems to have no sympathy for him...NONE! I mean is it just me or have we become inhumane?

 

I mentioned this situation to my best friend also and she was just as harsh and judgmental as people at my office. I don't understand!

Posted
I really did not know where to post this but this topic has been on my mind for a few days. I don't understand why people (I've done it too in the past) judge other people. Who are we to say how we live is the better way to live and how others are living is not valid? Okay, so most people make mistakes in life, what makes others feel that the person who made a mistake is undeserving of some empathy?

 

I work in a professional office as an assistant. One of the professionals was recently suspended, without pay, from work for second DWI charge. He has been an excellent worker, a friend, a provider (from what I can see) and a father. I know that he's marriage is falling apart in the most horrible way but he never brought his personal life to work. When I found out that he was being let go, the attitude of other workers were unbelievable to me. Behind his back, they judged him harshly and made him out to look like such a bad person....behind his back!!! While hugging him and telling him to get well and things will all fall into place. Now, I'm not saying he shouldn't have lost his job or that he should be driving while under the influence...I am just saying that I don't see him as a bad person but rather a troubled person. He is a very kind hearted man who would do anything for anyone. He is just going through some troubled times and everyone in the office seems to have no sympathy for him...NONE! I mean is it just me or have we become inhumane?

 

I mentioned this situation to my best friend also and she was just as harsh and judgmental as people at my office. I don't understand!

 

Rarely do human beings evolve to the point of non judgment. You are living in fantasy land if you think that happens. If you want complete non judgment, you must go live in a monastery. Workplaces are commonly gossip mills. The people there are mostly situational friends whose relationship ends when one or the other doesn't work there anymore. A LOT of people get their rocks off talking about other people.

 

Very often people live such boring lives that when something adverse happens to someone an entire group knows, talking about it is a way of perking up their mundane existence.

 

Get used to it or find another planet to live on. Sometimes the choice is non judgment or unlivable temperatures.

Posted
Workplaces are commonly gossip mills. The people there are mostly situational friends whose relationship ends when one or the other doesn't work there anymore.

Exactly. People don't have a choice at work. They need to have at minimum, a civil relationship with coworkers.

Posted

I try to remember that judgment belongs only to a being who truly knows everything about someone. I don't know what is in someone's soul that drives them to do the things they do. It isn't true that people who do bad things are bad people. In many ways they may be better than I am. But I just choose not to be around them, because I don't need to risk having someone else's problems become mine.

Posted

It's just human nature, I suppose and people just can't help it. I think what people should do instead is not be so harsh on the people they're judging because 1. They probably don't know the full story and 2. They themselves are not perfect. Don't have a problem with people making judgments on others but I can't stand it when they demonize the person that they're judging.

Posted

I think when people judge others it gives them a false sense of superiority. It's like saying "I could never be that way" yet they probably have issues of their own. But it makes them feel better by not possessing these traits that are being judged.

 

But at the same time, when someone focuses on the faults of others it serves as a diversion to avoid seeing what's wrong with themselves.

 

It's much easier to point the finger than it is to take a good long look at ourselves.

Posted

sometimes people are judgemental to avoid looking at themselves but often they have a strong opinion about something and I believe it's a good thing. if I am going in the wrong direction, I want people (my friends) around me to judge me and tell me. At work it is different of course but you learn to ignore it.

 

I don't think judging or being judged is such a bad thing, it allows you some control, not everything you do is fine and good and while some tolerance is necessary course, you need the feedback from family/friends/society. The trick is to learn whose opinion you trust.

Posted

I agree with Johan that the key is judging actions rather than the individuals who take those actions.

 

The gossiping and backstabbing is just passive aggressive behavior that humans stoop to because we don't want to do the work of being compassionate yet at the same time true to our values.

 

My 8 year old daughter talks behind one friend's back to another because of disagreements on the playground. She can't say, "I like you, but I don't like what you're doing." She just decides that person is not her friend for the day. She doesn't yet have the negotiation skills to handle it a better way. Some people never gain those skills.

Posted

It depends on how important the issue(s) is/are, in relation to the entirety of the person. If the issue or issues are too many, I can understand and relate to your daughter's attitude.

 

In a DWI situation, if a drunk driver has hurt or killed someone you care about, there will be no tolerance towards this type of behaviour.

Posted

Well, of course it is a matter of degree and common sense. If someone hurts you terribly or continuously, it is better to cut them off. Or even if they are too annoying to deal with and won't stop. Some people are more trouble than they're worth. And you're right, some actions cannot be condoned whatsoever. I wouldn't give a child molestor a second chance.

 

In the case of the OP, I wonder if the man who was fired was contrite and wanted to change. Is there a possibility he could have been rehabilitated? Is it going to help him stop the behavior that he is being fired? Maybe firing him is the answer--I don't have enough info.

 

I still somehow doubt that the people bad mouthing and gossiping have pure intentions.

Posted

Most employers will offer employees the opportunity for rehab and some will also offer to pay for it, if the employee is valued and/or in a position on the higher end of the foodchain.

 

In many situations, compassion isn't beneficial, even though it's what the person enacting the crime/misdemeanor wants. When there's tough consequences for actions, people aren't quite so carefree about taking actions that can be life threatening or detrimental to others.

 

Having said that, I'm pretty straight-forward at work. If I disagree with someone's actions, anything said behind their backs will be said to their faces. I avoid the gossip mill like the plague unless it's work-related. If it's truly work-related, I will also validate the information. No use believing lies or inaccuracies that could potentially impact on the quality of work produced or working relationships.

  • Author
Posted

Everyone has opinions on certain things...and I'm not saying that it is wrong to judge after knowing the whole story and for some, you don't even need the whole story, like say sexual predators, etc. but to harshly (and usually falsely) label someone as a bad person just because that someone is dealing with life in the best way he knows how or dealing with life without losing sanity while falling hard to the ground because he hasn't learned (or been shown) how to deal with life positively or effectively....we should respond to those behaviors by kicking him where it hurts the most?

 

It's like a single parent working hard to feed her children and she's extremely stressed, overwhelmed, and perhaps a little edgy most of the time...maybe even depressed. Yes, she has the potential to hurt herself or her children by losing her mind and just blowing up. She starts popping some anti-depressants (doctor's orders) or smoking pot to escape from it all and all of a sudden, she becomes complacent and let's her life pass her by. All she really needed was someone to take the time and maybe watch the kids for her while she rested or spend some time alone. Maybe all she needed was someone to talk with and help her with her chores. Instead, people label her as a bad mother for always yelling at the kids and never making any time for them and even go as far as saying why the hell would a woman like that have children. I mean..my God, instead of complaining about how people are doing things that you wouldn't do and even add more dirt to their story, why can't people help out?

 

Yes, I may be dreaming...I have recently been really looking into Buddhism but I just have a huge problem with this type of thing because I was judged so much throughout my life for being Asian (I should know karate or fix a VCR or great in Math), for having an accent (that I lost quicker than ****), or for whatever else you can think of and none of the labels that were tagged on me were true. I try to live my life not hurting others, particularly the ones that are different or unique or troubled in some way, instead, I spend everyday, however small, trying to help people out. And I have tons of flaws myself but I don't think they make me a bad person.

  • Author
Posted

Oh btw, he is in rehab now and I don't know what is going on with him since all I heard at the office was people's harsh opinions. I just feel terribly bad for this man.

Posted

My point is that if I determine, based on what I hear or observe, that a person is no good, then it's true. And that makes me feel better to know that about them, because that means I have the power to condemn. And they are going to Hell whether they know it or not, and I'll be thumbing my nose at them from Heaven. I love that.

 

I use that power of mine a lot. ESPECIALLY when I'm driving.

Posted
My point is that if I determine, based on what I hear or observe, that a person is no good, then it's true. And that makes me feel better to know that about them, because that means I have the power to condemn. And they are going to Hell whether they know it or not, and I'll be thumbing my nose at them from Heaven. I love that.

 

I use that power of mine a lot. ESPECIALLY when I'm driving.

 

:D:D:D Johan you are too much!!

  • Author
Posted

That was a good one Johan...thanks for the laugh :).

Posted

There are many things I would change about society if I could and one is the propensity to judge others that seems so endemic. When taken to extremes you get religious fundamentalism but even mild amounts are unethical in my book.

 

We all have a responsibility to ourselves to live an ethical life by our own standards and ideals. What we don't have is the ethical right to impose our beliefs on others! Certainly one can disagree with another's behaviour but until and unless it poses a danger to others, we should respect other peoples right to their own ideals of right and wrong.

 

In this example while most would agree his behaviour is potentially dangerous and in need of correction, I believe the correct response should be sympathy rather than talking him down. There is no one on this planet more than a few minutes old who has not made mistakes. A couple of pithy sayings come to mind: "To err is human..." and "I get by with a little help from my friends" I think this poor fellow is in need of support and understanding rather than abuse.

 

That's my take on it.

Posted
There are many things I would change about society if I could and one is the propensity to judge others that seems so endemic. When taken to extremes you get religious fundamentalism but even mild amounts are unethical in my book.

 

We all have a responsibility to ourselves to live an ethical life by our own standards and ideals. What we don't have is the ethical right to impose our beliefs on others! Certainly one can disagree with another's behaviour but until and unless it poses a danger to others, we should respect other peoples right to their own ideals of right and wrong.

 

In this example while most would agree his behaviour is potentially dangerous and in need of correction, I believe the correct response should be sympathy rather than talking him down. There is no one on this planet more than a few minutes old who has not made mistakes. A couple of pithy sayings come to mind: "To err is human..." and "I get by with a little help from my friends" I think this poor fellow is in need of support and understanding rather than abuse.

 

That's my take on it.

This is a judgement. Care to debate that?

Posted
This is a judgement. Care to debate that?

 

LOL

 

I did wonder if anyone would say something like that. There is a difference between using your judgement to make decisions about actions and how you believe the world should be, versus judging someone to be a bad person based on mistakes he has made. The latter at best is unhelpful while the former has the potential to make a positive contribution to improving the net quantity of happiness in the world.

 

When I criticise judgementalism I'm talking about the casting of aspertions that are not helpful in the least and have the potential to cause harm.

 

It is perfectly valid to have opinions however and even to discuss same. Provided of course that alternative points of view are respected.

 

I am an admirer of the witicism often erroneously attributed to Voltaire "I disagree with what you say but I shall defend to the death your right to say it!"

Posted
LOL

 

I did wonder if anyone would say something like that. There is a difference between using your judgement to make decisions about actions and how you believe the world should be, versus judging someone to be a bad person based on mistakes he has made. The latter at best is unhelpful while the former has the potential to make a positive contribution to improving the net quantity of happiness in the world.

 

When I criticise judgementalism I'm talking about the casting of aspertions that are not helpful in the least and have the potential to cause harm.

 

It is perfectly valid to have opinions however and even to discuss same. Provided of course that alternative points of view are respected.

 

I am an admirer of the witicism often erroneously attributed to Voltaire "I disagree with what you say but I shall defend to the death your right to say it!"

I disagree. Behavioural patterns define a person. Since Loveshack is a relationship forum, here's a pertinent example:

 

Man A continually has difficulty in relationships, where he can't seem to settle down. The grass is always greener.

 

Woman B has the right to judge Man A and decide he's a poor risk to date.

Posted
I disagree. Behavioural patterns define a person. Since Loveshack is a relationship forum, here's a pertinent example:

 

Man A continually has difficulty in relationships, where he can't seem to settle down. The grass is always greener.

 

Woman B has the right to judge Man A and decide he's a poor risk to date.

 

I think this is a matter of semantics and interpretation. I certainly see nothing wrong with Woman B "judging" Man A in this circumstance. That's not what I mean by "Judge" It's a word with meanings colored by context so it's important (as in any debate) to define what is meant by such words.

 

In the common vernacular, being "judgemental" is to not only be critical of another person based on their perceived flaws, but to talk about it. It is this spreading of vitriolic gossip that serves no useful purpose and has the potential to cause a great deal of harm.

 

In your excellent example, Woman B is not necessarily deciding that Man A is a bad person but rather he is lacking a vital aspect that she is looking for in a mate. This is certainly a form of judging but it is a subtly different variety than the meaning I am talking about. Perhaps in the interests of clarity, take my meaning as being "gossip".

 

As to what "defines" a person... now that is a whole 'nother kettle of potatoes and one I have spent hours of enjoyable debate discussing. However in the context of how you meant it, I do not disagree.

Posted
There are many things I would change about society if I could and one is the propensity to judge others that seems so endemic. When taken to extremes you get religious fundamentalism but even mild amounts are unethical in my book.

 

IMHO judging other people is necessary for a civilized society. Without passing judgment (e.g. labeling actions as right or wrong, moral or immoral) onto others we could not impose rules/laws.

 

I would rather deal with what might be seen as religious fundamentalism than dealing with anarchy resulting from too much political correctness and/or absolute liberty for the individual.

 

 

We all have a responsibility to ourselves to live an ethical life by our own standards and ideals. What we don't have is the ethical right to impose our beliefs on others! Certainly one can disagree with another's behaviour but until and unless it poses a danger to others, we should respect other peoples right to their own ideals of right and wrong.

 

How do we come to an understanding of what exactly poses a danger to others without choosing/judging the merits of one's ethics and morals?

 

 

I did wonder if anyone would say something like that. There is a difference between using your judgement to make decisions about actions and how you believe the world should be, versus judging someone to be a bad person based on mistakes he has made.

 

How would you differentiate between the two? Why would I want to use my judgement in the first place if I weren't willing to later hold the people accountable for their actions.

 

When I criticise judgementalism I'm talking about the casting of aspertions that are not helpful in the least and have the potential to cause harm.

 

I assume you mean aspersions instead of aspertions?

 

To judge simply for the sake of feeling superior or because you like to bash someone is wrong, on that one I would agree. However, by not confronting the other party when they act against my own ideals and beliefs, I would feel like encouraging them to continue to do so which I think is far worse than to stand up for your beliefs. Even if it may lead to judging other people as a result.

 

 

I am an admirer of the witicism often erroneously attributed to Voltaire "I disagree with what you say but I shall defend to the death your right to say it!"

 

I don't think there is a contradiction between the sentiment of the quote and judging people.

 

In fact, I believe they are simply other sides of the same coin. Without disagreements, we would have no need for freedom of speech and without measuring/juding people by our own individual standards, we would have nothing to disagree about.

 

 

I think this is a matter of semantics and interpretation. [...]

In the common vernacular, being "judgemental" is to not only be critical of another person based on their perceived flaws, but to talk about it. It is this spreading of vitriolic gossip that serves no useful purpose and has the potential to cause a great deal of harm.

 

I wouldn't call vitriolic gossiping being jugdemental. That's simply badmouthing and cowardly. However, I do not have a problem to judge people and tell them so face to face if I feel strongly enough about the topic. Nor would I expect anything else if the roles where reversed.

Posted
IMHO judging other people is necessary for a civilized society. Without passing judgment (e.g. labeling actions as right or wrong, moral or immoral) onto others we could not impose rules/laws.

 

Well you have to look at the underlying philosophical basis of the imposition of the legal strictures upon which communal society depends. I believe that anything that restricts my freedom is an inherently bad thing as I regard for myself freedom of action to be one of the most important requirements for a happy life. However, to derive the benefits of living in a society, we agree to give up certain freedoms. This unwritten contract is inherent in our choice to live in the country we choose. I am prepared to suffer the evil of having my choices restricted by laws in exchange for the benefits I can derive from living under this regime.

 

In a truly civilised society there would be no need for laws as all individuals would, by profound reflection, act by their own ethics which would be sufficiently common that laws would be unnecessary. I recognise however that my ideal of utopia is so far from where we are now that it will probably never be achieved.

 

To judge simply for the sake of feeling superior or because you like to bash someone is wrong, on that one I would agree. However, by not confronting the other party when they act against my own ideals and beliefs, I would feel like encouraging them to continue to do so which I think is far worse than to stand up for your beliefs. Even if it may lead to judging other people as a result.

 

 

I'm sure y'all would be shocked to hear that I have on occasion been accused of arrogance, however to me the above statement reeks of far more arrogance than I could ever dream of. I know that sounds awful and I do apologise for my inability to be more diplomatic. I am not accusing the author of being arrogant, simply the idea expressed that our ideas and beliefs MUST be true and anyone who disagrees MUST be wrong. I have many opinions and ideas and ethical beliefs that I consider valid and true. However I would never seek to impose them on others or judge someone to be a bad person because they follow a different path.

 

What I believe is right and wrong is based on my own thoughts and experiences but I recognise that I cannot ever know truth absolutely. If I were to consider myself to be some sort of moral arbiter with absolute certain knowledge, then I would be setting myself up as a god and as I don't believe in deities, it would distress me to have to disbelieve in myself.

 

I believe the best we can do to promote a caring and happy society is to act based on our own ethical beliefs and allow others the same freedom. It is all too easy to criticise but we can never really walk in another's shoes and know all the circumstances that face another in his or her life choices. How many times do you fail to live up to your own standards? I know I often make mistakes and if I am prepared to forgive myself then I certainly should cut others some slack. Knowing I lack perfection, I don't feel I have the right to lecture others on the morality of their actions. I cannot know with certainty if I am right no matter how much sense it makes to me.

 

Of course it makes a huge difference when someones actions seem to us to be dangerous or unequivocally physically threatening to another. There are times when we need to take actions to defend the safety of others and to my mind this is the time when it is justifiable to remonstrate with the potential offender. Oftentimes we are faced with a grey area where we must decide between the opposing forces of not wanting to impose our belief system on another and yet defending against what we percieve as a threat to another's well being. It is an ethical wrestle which we must undertake. This is the time when we must choose the lesser of two evils. So in extreme cases, yes I agree it is necessary to "judge" another and seek to change his behaviour but most cases are not extreme and in such we should allow a mulitude of different ethical beliefs and thus increase the chance of advancement of all society.

 

My 2 cents.

Posted

I probably shouldn't go into too much detail on this one; mainly because I am not a native speaker and philosophical discussions about metaphysics may very well lead to me not being precise enough in my responses for this kind of discussion. So I will try to make only some brief comments.

 

 

Well you have to look at the underlying philosophical basis of the imposition of the legal strictures upon which communal society depends. I believe that anything that restricts my freedom is an inherently bad thing as I regard for myself freedom of action to be one of the most important requirements for a happy life. However, to derive the benefits of living in a society, we agree to give up certain freedoms. This unwritten contract is inherent in our choice to live in the country we choose. I am prepared to suffer the evil of having my choices restricted by laws in exchange for the benefits I can derive from living under this regime.

 

Well, the underlying philosophical basis is the social contract theory which you were referring to.

 

For each individum participating, there will be a weighing of interests between freedom of action and the security a social order enforced by a controlling power can/should provide.

 

 

 

In a truly civilised society there would be no need for laws as all individuals would, by profound reflection, act by their own ethics which would be sufficiently common that laws would be unnecessary. I recognise however that my ideal of utopia is so far from where we are now that it will probably never be achieved.

 

Sounds a lot like a world where Kant's categorical imperative prevailed.

 

 

 

I'm sure y'all would be shocked to hear that I have on occasion been accused of arrogance, however to me the above statement reeks of far more arrogance than I could ever dream of. I know that sounds awful and I do apologise for my inability to be more diplomatic. I am not accusing the author of being arrogant, simply the idea expressed that our ideas and beliefs MUST be true and anyone who disagrees MUST be wrong. I have many opinions and ideas and ethical beliefs that I consider valid and true. However I would never seek to impose them on others or judge someone to be a bad person because they follow a different path.

 

Depending from what angle you are looking at it I can certainly understand how it can be viewed as arrogance. There is no need to be more diplomatic if that is your opinion.

 

As far as imposing my opinions, ideals, morals or ethical believes on other people, that is - to a certain degree - true. That doesn't mean I jugde people because we can't agree whether Coke or Pepsi tastes better or if we have different favourite colours.

 

On the other hand, there are things were I indeed consider my beliefs to be the only valid opinion. I think murdering people is wrong and a murderer should be punished. The same goes for child molesters, thieves, drug dealers, etc. There are some that are already "agreed upon" by society as punishable offences like the above mentioned and there are those very few that I think should be punished as well yet aren't or are no longer punishable by law.

 

And I indeed judge those people as being bad persons if they chose to follow a different path in those occasional instances.

 

 

What I believe is right and wrong is based on my own thoughts and experiences but I recognise that I cannot ever know truth absolutely. If I were to consider myself to be some sort of moral arbiter with absolute certain knowledge, then I would be setting myself up as a god and as I don't believe in deities, it would distress me to have to disbelieve in myself.

 

So far, I am not aware that I have transcendent powers to shape the world as I see fit, which is a good thing. And as long as that is the case, I am sure I won't think of myself as a messiah or moral arbiter.

 

 

 

I believe the best we can do to promote a caring and happy society is to act based on our own ethical beliefs and allow others the same freedom. It is all too easy to criticise but we can never really walk in another's shoes and know all the circumstances that face another in his or her life choices. How many times do you fail to live up to your own standards?

 

I have lied to my parents when I was a boy but I can't give you an exact number on that. How many times I have failed to meet other people's standard, I don't know.

 

As far as my own judgemental standards go, I have failed once. As a young man I served in NATO-led KFOR in the former Jugoslavia in the late 90's. Even though it was justified as a humanitarian intervention, IMHO it did set a dangerous precedent. Not that it was wrong do intervene and trying to help but the double standards it set and the problems it caused and more than likely will continue to do so, are troubling me.

 

 

I know I often make mistakes and if I am prepared to forgive myself then I certainly should cut others some slack. Knowing I lack perfection, I don't feel I have the right to lecture others on the morality of their actions. I cannot know with certainty if I am right no matter how much sense it makes to me.

 

Perfection in every aspect of your life as a requirement for being allowed to voice an opinion and criticise/lecture those who make mistakes is IMHO not helpful to make the world better.

 

If nobody told you that you are doing something you shouldn't be doing in their opinion just makes it easier to repeat that behavior and get away with it without having to question yourself if you are doing the right thing.

 

 

Of course it makes a huge difference when someones actions seem to us to be dangerous or unequivocally physically threatening to another. There are times when we need to take actions to defend the safety of others and to my mind this is the time when it is justifiable to remonstrate with the potential offender. Oftentimes we are faced with a grey area where we must decide between the opposing forces of not wanting to impose our belief system on another and yet defending against what we percieve as a threat to another's well being. It is an ethical wrestle which we must undertake. This is the time when we must choose the lesser of two evils. So in extreme cases, yes I agree it is necessary to "judge" another and seek to change his behaviour but most cases are not extreme and in such we should allow a mulitude of different ethical beliefs and thus increase the chance of advancement of all society.

 

My 2 cents.

 

I would be nice to only have to deal with right or wrong. The grey areas are always the hardest to deal with because in most cases you will end up compromising something of yourself in the process. And yes, there are those dilemmas, I am still struggling with my own.

×
×
  • Create New...