totalbtch Posted November 11, 2007 Posted November 11, 2007 And any attempt at after-the-fact justification or explanation just reinforces your screen name... Mr. Lucky I chose it, didn’t I? Look, I never said it was right thing to do. But to expect me to never try to explain or tell people what led me to it doesn’t make much sense to me. What do you suggest, to just go shoot myself? I did the wrong thing, but that doesn’t make me a bad person automatically. Again, I hope you're not saying that you never make mistakes?
Mr. Lucky Posted November 11, 2007 Posted November 11, 2007 I chose it, didn’t I? Since you brought it up, could you be specific as to why you chose that screen name? Mr. Lucky
Darth Vader Posted November 11, 2007 Posted November 11, 2007 Ah, the old wedding video trick. I think it's number #7 on the list of "Desperate Moves by the WS After They've Been Caught". Sounds like a blatantly manipulative attempt to get you to focus on the past and forget about the present circumstances... Mr. Lucky Nice observation agent 86! "The old watch the wedding movie and cry your eyes out trick!":eek:
Cobra_X30 Posted November 11, 2007 Posted November 11, 2007 As a woman, I don’t have an exact equivalent to the pleasure that men derive from looking. That’s how it is – nothing you (or I) can change about it. I am not saying that my way of dealing with it was healthy – I was just trying to help OP to understand his wife. Flaming, blaming and talking about ugly insides doesn’t help anyone. I suppose you’ve never done anything wrong. Anyway, all the best to you. OP, you deserve to know the other side of the story. What you decide to do at the end is totally up to you, and I would never try to influence your decision. You are the only one who knows the situation. You are the only one who will be affected by your decision. But I definitely want you to hear what someone, very similar to your wife, thinks. If my response is not helpful, or you don’t want to hear it – just ignore it. Please try to remember that by saying this you also assault the blind men, not only me. Flaming? I'm not trying to hurt your feelings here! I want you to understand something important. You've built a wall of rationalizations and lies that allow you to live with what you have done! Hefty, needs to realize his wife is similar. Perhaps he has been disrespectful and rude, to what extent we do not know. However, his wife did not did not do this in the open, she failed to stand and address the problem. Instead she lied, and cheated in secrecy. No relationship you will ever have can survive without honest communication and the ability to stand up for yourself. You and she may blame your husbands for creating the affair, but it is your own failures which cause this to happen! I apologize that I am passionate about this particular topic. I lost my parents and family due to this. I hope you fully appreciate the damage this does not only to the person you desire to hurt, but also the children! It's legalized child abuse. To my mind Hefty's wife did this because she cares more for herself than for her own daughter! So, please forgive my inability to understand her side in this.
Darth Vader Posted November 11, 2007 Posted November 11, 2007 I chose it, didn’t I? Look, I never said it was right thing to do. But to expect me to never try to explain or tell people what led me to it doesn’t make much sense to me. What do you suggest, to just go shoot myself? I did the wrong thing, but that doesn’t make me a bad person automatically. Again, I hope you're not saying that you never make mistakes? So typical that someone tries to cover their butt by trying to say that no one's perfect, or never made mistakes. (Talk about trying to project blame onto others indirectly). Lady, cheating is not a mistake, It's intensional. There's just some things in this world that people have no business doing, Period!
Author heftysmurf Posted November 11, 2007 Author Posted November 11, 2007 I believe is just starting to understand what she has done to our daughter. I thank god she is still very young and can likely unlearn any of the learned behaviors that were being taught: 1) It is OK to lie 2) How to be thoughtless 3) How to always choose self above others. Unlike the mean member who blames others for her actions my wife appears to realize she needed to talk to me about any problems we had in the relationship. I would lie on a bed of nails for her and for good or for bad she needed to talk to me no matter what my reaction would be . I do not have ESP (I do have ESPN)
totalbtch Posted November 12, 2007 Posted November 12, 2007 I did behave like a total b*tch, hence the screen name. I am not proud of what I’ve done, but I have to get on with my life. What other choice do I have? And I never blamed my H for what I’ve done. Anyway, I will not say anything else. Except – good luck, heftysmurf Regards, Mean member
Cobra_X30 Posted November 12, 2007 Posted November 12, 2007 I believe is just starting to understand what she has done to our daughter. I thank god she is still very young and can likely unlearn any of the learned behaviors that were being taught: 1) It is OK to lie 2) How to be thoughtless 3) How to always choose self above others. You cannot remove her mother from her life. You must strive to be a positive rolemodel for your daughter. I did behave like a total b*tch, hence the screen name. I am not proud of what I’ve done, but I have to get on with my life. What other choice do I have? And I never blamed my H for what I’ve done. Anyway, I will not say anything else. TB, Your general self loathing more than likely began before your marriage. If you decide to post your story in your thread, I will be happy to provide insight, in a very nice way! I do not relish the idea of having hurt your feelings. I do understand where your coming from.
Author heftysmurf Posted November 12, 2007 Author Posted November 12, 2007 For the way I came off. You are hurt in bad way and respect that. Some pain is so great that you end up building a sheild to protect yourself.
totalbtch Posted November 12, 2007 Posted November 12, 2007 I apologize For the way I came off. You are hurt in bad way and respect that. Some pain is so great that you end up building a sheild to protect yourself. Accepted I hope you find a way to be happy again. With your wife or without
Author heftysmurf Posted November 12, 2007 Author Posted November 12, 2007 You are giving me a perspective I need. I have PERMANTLY changed as a result of this already and now what I need to do to make a woman happy. I need to head over heals in love. Talk gift hand holding movies SHE like the whole 9. I am ready to begin anew. I denied her that. At the same time the other person my spouse needs to let go of the resentment towards me for her feeling "you are against me" and "I will take care of myself because you will not". She needs to understand until she loses that attitude we will never be happy. I feel right now like I am in the fight of my life for my daughter. I can save the day if she will HONESTLY stops hating me. If I stay and she still feels like that we will both forever be unhappy which is bad for my daughter. My other bad alternitive is I leave. I recover and stay the good father I am and I send her to Mom's disfunctional house. Who knows what she will be exposed to? What I want is us to "start over" meet each others needs and grow old and die together. This is for the sake of my daughter. She is the most important thing I have ever know (tears now flowing). I am jumping on a live grenade called my heart for her. If you look at my previous posts what my wife did was most heinous. I have had a hard time finding worse except for abuse cases. I have been destoyed. Now is time to rebuild. I still do not know how I will feel a minute or a month from now but I will try anything for my daughter as I now KNOW what love is finally. hardest lesson I have EVER learned.
norajane Posted November 12, 2007 Posted November 12, 2007 I think you and your wife need some time apart before you can even consider 'rebuilding'. You both need time to think. Go to counseling in the meantime, but I don't know that trying to live together right now is giving you enough space from each other to really get any clarity.
Author heftysmurf Posted November 12, 2007 Author Posted November 12, 2007 Our raising of our daughter is intertwined. I work days she nights no daycare. does not help our daughter get raised. We have very little family support structure to help us in this. In fact my wifes mom is the reason she is so messed up. I did ask her if this weekend she could stay at a hotel a night and have NC. I think it is the only way we will BOTH know what life is apart.
Ladyjane14 Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Let me preface my comment by saying that I believe a marriage CAN heal even after the worst case of infidelity. It's alot of work, but the rewards are worth the exchange. So, I'm not trying to discourage you from rebuilding your marriage, not a bit. But... through your posts, I suspect that your main impetus here in maintaining the family dynamic is for the sake of your daughter. And because marital recovery IS such a challenge, I think it's important that you go into it really knowing what you hope to accomplish. Toward that end, maybe you could write up two lists: The first, would be a list of what you get out of the marriage as it pertains to lifestyle and convenience. The second, would be a list of what you get out of being married to your wife as a specific person. Now, even if that second list is small, that's okay. You're looking for quality, not quantity. So, if there are compelling reasons for you to stay in this thing, then I think you're going to feel alot more satisfied with your decision to proceed. The LAST THING you want, is to go forward still feeling victimized as if you have no choices or nothing to gain.... like a bull led to slaughter.
Author heftysmurf Posted November 13, 2007 Author Posted November 13, 2007 Please continue to comment. You are a valuable member and given me insights I have not even perceived of. I am trying your excercise and the second list is a struggle. Nothing is coming to mind.
Ladyjane14 Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Please continue to comment. You are a valuable member and given me insights I have not even perceived of. I am trying your excercise and the second list is a struggle. Nothing is coming to mind. If you can't come up with anything, maybe give it another week or two and try again. This is still really raw for you. You need time to absorb the shock before you commit yourself to a course of action. Sitting on your hands waiting for the dust to settle is a tough proposition though. Why not stop by the bookstore or library and get yourself a couple of books, one or two on each side of the decision. (????) You might start with a book on co-parenting (I'm sorry I don't have a specific title to recommend for you, but there are alot on the market), and also a book on marriage. A good jumping off point might be Love Busters by Harley, which will be beneficial in setting some guidelines for healthy communications.
Author heftysmurf Posted November 13, 2007 Author Posted November 13, 2007 The thing that kills me is I feel like they need WS get off way to easy. I know my wife feels remorse and guilt but is that enough? I am still raw and confused. I have toned down my non constructive anger conversation and crying as much. I now what caused it - need for more love and attention the fell good feeling I was not giving her. I know what to do in future relationships now. I do not know if I am wasting my knowledge on her?
4whatItsWorth Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I do not know if I am wasting my knowledge on her? Only time can tell! ...but are you willing to wait around for long enough to find out?
norajane Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I now what caused it - need for more love and attention the fell good feeling I was not giving her. No, that's not what caused her affair - her weakness and conflict avoidance caused her to have the affair instead of dealing with the issues. Not getting enough love and attention may have caused her to be unhappy in the marriage. But there are options other than having an affair when a person is unhappy in a marriage! She could have: talked to you about the issues, planned dates and getaways so the two of you had time to reconnect and and make an effort regain the romance, suggested going to marriage counseling, started going to marriage counseling herself, given you warning that she found herself looking at other men because she wasn't getting attention and affection from you, told you she was tempted to have an affair, and finally, she could have told you she wanted a separation or a divorce. Instead, she chose to deal with her unhappiness by cheating on you for years, while later adding a baby to the mix. Marital unhappiness does not cause affairs. The cheater chooses an affair instead of dealing with marital unhappiness - thereby creating more issues and unhappiness and distance in the marriage. People who are not conflict avoiders and who truly want to repair a marriage do not choose affairs when they are having problems in their marriage.
reboot Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 She could have: talked to you about the issues, planned dates and getaways so the two of you had time to reconnect and and make an effort regain the romance, suggested going to marriage counseling, started going to marriage counseling herself, given you warning that she found herself looking at other men because she wasn't getting attention and affection from you, told you she was tempted to have an affair, and finally, she could have told you she wanted a separation or a divorce.I hate hate hate to sound like I'm defending a cheater, because I agree with you, there's no good excuse for cheating. But sometimes, they do all these things you just described, and we still don't listen.... While I can't excuse, I can understand.
norajane Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I hate hate hate to sound like I'm defending a cheater, because I agree with you, there's no good excuse for cheating. But sometimes, they do all these things you just described, and we still don't listen.... While I can't excuse, I can understand. Well, the last item on my list was separation and divorce. If that message isn't loud and clear, instead of cheating they can actually follow through and GET the divorce and then be free to find the love and attention they weren't getting with their spouse who wasn't listening...
reboot Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Well, the last item on my list was separation and divorce. If that message isn't loud and clear, instead of cheating they can actually follow through and GET the divorce and then be free to find the love and attention they weren't getting with their spouse who wasn't listening...I do agree, and that's the main reason I can't excuse....
RecordProducer Posted November 17, 2007 Posted November 17, 2007 Looking hurts. I don’t know how many women feel this way, but I know many who do. Some on this forum. It’s not as simple and crime and punishment – it makes you feel inferior. It makes you feel he wants them and is interested in them, not you. It makes you question your qualities. It makes you look in the mirror and check what is wrong with you. It makes you try to look your best for your H and miserably fail because he chooses to check out other women instead. It makes you try the best you can. It makes you try to improve, to be beautiful and sexy and please him. It makes you try and try and, in the end, when he still shows so great interest in other women , hen it makes you seek validation from other men. It is not tit for tat, it is a process and a very unpleasant one. Life is not that simple – I look, so you are allowed to look and nothing more. Looking does nothing for me. If you have your pleasure from looking, let me do something I can derive some pleasure from. It does not necessarily have to be the same thing. That would be like: I like shopping, so you are allowed to shop, but not to go to the football game. Doesn’t make sense to allow someone to do something they don’t enjoy. Anyway, this is not an excuse, but I can understand completely. No wonder, I did exactly the same thing for exactly the same reasons. My husband was looking at women in one period before we got married, so I can relate. I sooooooooooooo understand what you're saying and agree with you. I would NEVER put up with it. I also understand the analogy with shopping and football. It's also a matter of punishment. Actually it's such a cruel thing, because the guy is ready to break his wife's heart over and over again, just so he can LOOK at somebody's tits. It's actually worse than cheating, because if he is cheating, he is at least getting REAL pleasure from ONE woman and he is trying to NOT hurt his wife by hiding his infidelity. In looking, he is deliberately hurting his wife, admiring other women in front of her, and lauging in her face as in "I ain't doin' anything bad - you can't charge me for lookin'... hee-hee :p" Gotta wish to smack him on the eyes when the anger builds up.
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