Michael Corleone Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 I've seen a lot of discussion on the idea of the "friend zone" - the notion that one becomes friends with another, and then realizes (before or after the fact) that they have feelings for this person. However, because, as the story goes, the person has already been placed into the "friend" category, they can no longer be considered "significant other" material. I just wanted to see if this is in fact the general trend, or if those who fall into the "friend zone" trap simply tend to be more outspoken about their follies. One alternative theory is that had the two people not been friends to begin with, they still would not end up being romantically involved anyway. In other words, there was no chance of a relationship anyway. I know that the "pursuee-friend" often says to the "pursueor-friend" that they're "just friends" and that had they not started out as friends, then things may be different. This is totally plausible, but it is equally plausible that this is the pursuee-friend's way of dispensing with a graceful rejection by still acknowledging the friendship. So, the questions I pose are these: (1) To those of you who have rejected advances from a friend, if you had met the person without first becoming friends would you have been more likely to have been romantically interested? (2) To those of you who are currently dating a friend-turned-significant-other, how did the relationship evolve from platonic to romantic?
The Loacker Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 This only works one way (generally): the woman friendzones you. Guys will gladly sleep with any of their hot female friends. Women won't sleep with their guy friends as readily. And yes, the friendzone is very real.
squeak Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 (1) To those of you who have rejected advances from a friend, if you had met the person without first becoming friends would you have been more likely to have been romantically interested? (2) To those of you who are currently dating a friend-turned-significant-other, how did the relationship evolve from platonic to romantic? Wow, this is a good question. 1)Honestly, if I considered a guy my friend, usually it was because I had mentally rejected him as a boyfriend very early on, for various reasons, but cherished the banter. So...you are right-it had nothing to do with being friends first. Only once, after a brief friendship where the guy stopped being my friend once he obtained a girlfriend, did I realize I could have like him if we had not started off as friends. That may sound confusing, but I did ot read the signals he was putting out, at the time. That was once. The only time in fact. So it is rare, in my experience. So, in conclusion, the odds are against a friendship morphing to relationship because the girl chose to put you in the friends category early on for some inane reason or another---for a reason.
Pedigree Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 It's a fact and I've got the firsthand experience to boot.
Trialbyfire Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 (1) To those of you who have rejected advances from a friend, if you had met the person without first becoming friends would you have been more likely to have been romantically interested? I've very rarely dated anyone who hasn't been a long-time friend. (2) To those of you who are currently dating a friend-turned-significant-other, how did the relationship evolve from platonic to romantic? I'm not currently in this situation but past situations have always been that the guy has continued to pursue, even though he was in the "friend's zone". Keep in mind that I've never dated a close friend. They are completely off-limits.
norajane Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 1) No, they became a friend because there was no romantic spark. Had there been a romantic spark when we met, we would have dated then. The only exception is if I was already in a relationship when we first met. Then, it's possible to become friends and not feel the spark (due to being otherwise occupied and totally 'into' my bf), but to find the spark later when single. 2) Flirtation. It works wonders.
Sand&Water Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 RE: The "Friend Zone" is a fact, but a limited one. Not only can it be pretentious and mischievous but also transform into a different dynamic at any moment in time. First off, Michael Corleone, the majority of your post is quite misleading and on some grounds false. There is one point I want to make clear, and it is the fact that the "Friend Zone" is not a rigid cell-like category. There are no strict step-by-step enforcements of the "Friend Zone". A woman can place a man into the "Friend Zone" at the very start of the initial meeting, but that doesn't mean he is forever doomed to live there. She can at a later date move him in the "Significant Other" category, fully knowing of his capabilities, achievements, relationship status, and future aspirations. The one part most -or almost all men -don't, if rarely, ever know is that a woman can intentionally put a man into the "Friend Zone" due to a very valid reason (which is almost always the case) until she thinks it is time -at the right time -to transfer him into the "Significant Other" category. This is where a woman can disguise the scene, and make you believe that you are simply a friend -but out of nowhere, slowly but surely let you come in. That time in-between transitions is important, because some women out there use it to think about: whether the man is good enough, handsome, whether she will be able to be by his side, her feelings, and how her life will mesh with his -or all that aside, she just isn't ready for a relationship. As a woman, I have had many male friends make advancements on me. Personally it doesn't matter whether friendship or romance blossom first, I know if I am interested in a man or not; a friendship makes it much more meaningful, but it wouldn't hold me back (in the early stages). Nonetheless, though, it has to do with timing. There is a reason as to why life made it so that 2 people start out as friends as opposed to boyfriend/girlfriend. On the other hand, depending on the situation and given circumstances, if there is mutual interest then there shouldn't be a problem. However, if it is non-mutual interest -as I have lately experienced -then I would still carry through with the friendship, including awkward moments -but that all depends on the man's behavior, how well he is able to remain friends and show respect (not hate me for not being romantically interested in him) after the fact. Sand&Water
Trialbyfire Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 1) No, they became a friend because there was no romantic spark. Had there been a romantic spark when we met, we would have dated then. This is something I have difficulty with. When I first meet a man, I rarely see him in a romantic light. While I can and do acknowledge that they're attractive, but it's such a cursory thing. Until I get to know them better, I don't feel that spark very quickly.
norajane Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 This is something I have difficulty with. When I first meet a man, I rarely see him in a romantic light. While I can and do acknowledge that they're attractive, but it's such a cursory thing. Until I get to know them better, I don't feel that spark very quickly. That varies for me. Sometimes, it's there on a first meeting, provided the meeting was long enough to actually spend some time speaking to him. And sometimes, it develops later after I've gotten to know him better. But it's never the case that I've known someone for ages with no spark, with the exception noted above - it either develops within the first few months, or it just won't develop.
Author Michael Corleone Posted November 9, 2007 Author Posted November 9, 2007 RE: The "Friend Zone" is a fact, but a limited one. Not only can it be pretentious and mischievous but also transform into a different dynamic at any moment in time. First off, Michael Corleone, the majority of your post is quite misleading and on some grounds false. There is one point I want to make clear, and it is the fact that the "Friend Zone" is not a rigid cell-like category. There are no strict step-by-step enforcements of the "Friend Zone". A woman can place a man into the "Friend Zone" at the very start of the initial meeting, but that doesn't mean he is forever doomed to live there. She can at a later date move him in the "Significant Other" category, fully knowing of his capabilities, achievements, relationship status, and future aspirations. The one part most -or almost all men -don't, if rarely, ever know is that a woman can intentionally put a man into the "Friend Zone" due to a very valid reason (which is almost always the case) until she thinks it is time -at the right time -to transfer him into the "Significant Other" category. This is where a woman can disguise the scene, and make you believe that you are simply a friend -but out of nowhere, slowly but surely let you come in. That time in-between transitions is important, because some women out there use it to think about: whether the man is good enough, handsome, whether she will be able to be by his side, her feelings, and how her life will mesh with his -or all that aside, she just isn't ready for a relationship. As a woman, I have had many male friends make advancements on me. Personally it doesn't matter whether friendship or romance blossom first, I know if I am interested in a man or not; a friendship makes it much more meaningful, but it wouldn't hold me back (in the early stages). Nonetheless, though, it has to do with timing. There is a reason as to why life made it so that 2 people start out as friends as opposed to boyfriend/girlfriend. On the other hand, depending on the situation and given circumstances, if there is mutual interest then there shouldn't be a problem. However, if it is non-mutual interest -as I have lately experienced -then I would still carry through with the friendship, including awkward moments -but that all depends on the man's behavior, how well he is able to remain friends and show respect (not hate me for not being romantically interested in him) after the fact. Sand&Water S&W, this is a great post. Perhaps my post is misleading, because much of what I have read in this forum implies that the "Friend Zone" is in fact a rigid cell-like category. Many of the males that claim to have been added to the (*gasp*) "Friend Zone" act as if they have been relegated to that position for eternity, and that any efforts to change that fact are futile. What I was trying to get at is that being friends with a woman and precluding a future romance is not necessarily a strict cause-effect relationship. That perhaps those men had no chance to being with, and that is the cause of them being given "friend" status right off the bat. What you say really strikes the issue on a deeper level, and that is that the shift from "friend" to "potential significant other" can happen at any time depending on the people, circumstances, and timing. This, in my opinion is a better, and more realistic, way to understand the concept.
The Loacker Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 MC, can I ask what your fascination is with analyzing everything about attraction? Are you doing a study about this topic? Or is this just a hobby? Not trying to be rude, just wondering...
Author Michael Corleone Posted November 9, 2007 Author Posted November 9, 2007 MC, can I ask what your fascination is with analyzing everything about attraction? Are you doing a study about this topic? Or is this just a hobby? Not trying to be rude, just wondering... I'm very much on the experienced side of dating for a variety of reasons. However, I'm slowly realizing that one of these days, I will meet one of those select few individuals with whom I am completely compatible, inspires me, and gives me butterflies. I simply don't want to sell myself short simply because I didn't have the dating experience to traverse the ups and downs of dating/relationships. Because I've recently moved to a new city working long hours at my job, and currently do not have much of a social life, I feel I am no position to be dating right now. Once I establish a work-life balance, a social life, and learn how to have an enriching life all the while, I'll dip my toe into the dating pool. In the mean time, I simply want to learn about relationships and dating from others. I know it's impossible to reduce the idea of love to a predictable science, but I do think that statistics in this area are something that would be very helpful in society. For example, divorce rates across income levels, racial lines, religious believes of one or both people, the number of children they have, etc. I think if people knew how certain variables correlate with relationships, we would have more success in finding love as a whole. There is something to be said for the romantic notion that "love conquers all", but the reality is that statistics tend to be at least somewhat helpful in making predictions. Just look at the extent to which statistics are used in other areas - political campaigns, business, sociology, medicine. Anyway, that's my story. Not that it matters much, but I figured if you were curious, others might be as well.
Lovegod Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 (1) To those of you who have rejected advances from a friend, if you had met the person without first becoming friends would you have been more likely to have been romantically interested? As a guy, I can't answer this question because I wouldn't reject a hot female friend. (2) To those of you who are currently dating a friend-turned-significant-other, how did the relationship evolve from platonic to romantic? I was successful with this once. I had asked her out, but was rejected and placed in the "friends" category. Over time, I worked at making our interactions more sexual and turning the relationship into a more "boyfriend - girlfriend" relationship, but without the official status of dating or sex. While I was doing that, I was telling her of some of the other girls I was dating. Eventually, she asked if she could kiss me, and we ended up "official". I'm no longer with her, but I don't think it would have been worth 9 months of work if I kept her as my only option. When me and her officially started dating, I was already dating someone else.
isntitironic Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 before i answer your questions let me say that the friend zone is like trying to get out of alcatraz. Usually its unesesary to get yourself caught up in it. On the other hand my best relationships are usually rooted in friendship. I guess the best things truly do come from those who wait. Watch when Harry met Sally. that being said 1. I have a few friends that are girls. If they were to make an advance it would almost seem like incest. Then again, I'm a guy I would probably get over it. 2. A girl I was with for three years I was friends with before that for two years. She was kind of a highschool sweet heart we went to the prom to gether she always knew I had feelings for her but nothing came out of it. At this point she had never had a boyfriend before. BOOM sophmore year of College we are dating and all of sudden 3 years later after that she is 100% in love with me and I take her for granted. Fast forwars to today shes married to another guy I went to highschool with. She is probably the love of my life and I'm pretty sure I'm still hers. Anyways how did I get out of the friend zone? Persistance mixed with self conrol if you can make any sense of that. It was a bitch of a process. In the end I guess I just grew on her. There were also times I would be dating another girl during the friend process and she would notice that maybe she wanted to be that girl. If i didn't talk to her for a while she would realize how much i meant to her.
Author Michael Corleone Posted November 9, 2007 Author Posted November 9, 2007 Anyways how did I get out of the friend zone? Persistance mixed with self conrol if you can make any sense of that. It was a bitch of a process. Can you elaborate on the "persistence mixed with self control" part? If I had to guess, I would take that to mean you have live with the ups and downs of you or she dating other people while you have feelings for her, and all the while keeping a lid on the emotions you have for her or the frustration you feel for still being labeled a "friend"; all that with the thought in the back of your head that it can (and hopefully will) eventually work out for the two of you.
Lovegod Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Can you elaborate on the "persistence mixed with self control" part? You persist in flirting with her, being sexual with her, but you use self-control to avoid hopelessly falling in love with her during the whole process. You continue dating other women and carrying on with your life while (you hope) her attraction for you grows. You must realize that there is no guarantee that a female friend will become your lover. That's why you don't put all your eggs in one basket, so-to-speak.
isntitironic Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Yeah thats the jist of it you have to do things to keep yourself on her mind but at the same time you have to show that you have your own life and if she doesn't want to be a major part of it you will live. If your confessing your love and smothering her you'll scare her away. This kind of behavior is especially alarming to a women when it comes from a friend. Just another reason why human beings havent evolved as much as we'd like to think. Like I said getting out of the frieend zone is a long hard process. You have to play your cards right.
chasingmissamy Posted November 10, 2007 Posted November 10, 2007 My fiance was my best friend before anything romantic happened between the both of us. Once we realized how well we got along, how much we had in common, how much we just got each other, trusted one another, and needed one another - we both admitted our feelings for each other. He didn't tell me until I was going to move away because it hurt too much to love him, see him every day at work, but be afraid to be with him because I didn't know that he felt the same way and was too afraid of telling him how I felt because I didn't want to ruin our friendship. When I told him I was leaving, he stormed to my apartment at 2:30 in the morning and told me how much he loved me and asked me to stay. Our relationship really turned when we realized how much we trusted one another and how much we really relied on one another. He had not dated for seven years (getting through is degree and law school was more important to him than being distracted) and I was new to the dating scene after spending my twenties married. Both of us were naturally skeptical of people. But, we found salvation in one another. We made each other laugh. We loved the same things. We had so much in common from beliefs to hobbies to the same music. The signs were all there, but both of us were blind to them. The realization really hit, though, when we realized that we were willing to look out for and sacrifice for each other. I think, really, a lot of it depends on what you value from a relationship. For the both of us, trust and friendship are the most important things. Being happy. Having fun. And the rest just kind of followed for us when those things were in place.
Dynamo Posted November 10, 2007 Posted November 10, 2007 I know all to well about the friend trap *sigh*
Phateless Posted November 10, 2007 Posted November 10, 2007 FACT basically, you have a window of time to go from "friend" to "lover". It doesn't really matter about context, so much as timing and presentation. I am a journeyman when it comes to getting "friend-zoned". If you never make a move, or present yourself as a friend instead of a sexual person, that's what happens. btw, you're right, I think the whole line about "had we not started as friends" is mostly BS in an attempt for an easy let-down.
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