Why does Satan work for God?

[disgracian]

So you don't think abortion or euthanasia devalues life.

I'm no advocate of abortion except in a triage situation. Euthanasia I have no problem with, and it would be my choice if I ended up a vegetable with no chance of recovery. I don't think it devalues life in the slightest.

There are a number of Christian charaties, and there is missionary work. Priests and other religious order members (the good ones) take a vow of poverty and dedicate their lives to God's service.

There is indeed, and I regularly donate to one. But that doesn't change the fact that according to your beliefs, all the charity work in the world isn't enough if you call god by another name, or no name at all.

Most of what comes from athiests is talk...

 

I understand making the most of your time with sexcapades and party party party.

Why would an athiest do anything for his fellow man? Bragging rights? Strip aways his fellow man's dignity? You know, eventually get something from him...

 

The only ethic I see in athiesm is the status quo. You are free to do whatever you can get away with. That could be part of the appeal.

What a load of prejudiced nonsense. Atheists do things for their fellow man out of empathy and compassion, which are universal human traits. Maybe you can't fathom the idea of helping people because it's the right thing to do, without having to be commanded to by a book or a fictional deity.

 

Your opinion of atheism is comically skewed and laughably inaccurate, especially when you consider the fact that Christians have the same crime rates as anyone else. Are you aware of this, or do you somehow manage to hold reality at bay in order to maintain your bigotry?

 

Cheers,

D.

[disgracian]

It seems apparent that some posters are hellbent on using anything possible to discredit Christianity by constantly changing the subject. Like' date=' Christianity needs to be proven.[/quote']

I thought I answered this for you already. Some religions push their views a lot harder than others. Christians constantly claim to have proof and knowledge to back up their beliefs. They tell others they are definitely wrong and going to hell. Is it any wonder the rest of us expect them to put their money where their mouth is?

 

Cheers,

D.

[Geishawhelk]

Fleshnbones seems to me, to come up with several statements that have not been born of insight or contemplation. The comments seem to come off the cuff, and I have not seen him/her come back and substantiate his/her commnets with an underpinning reasoning, logic or understanding.

 

It would be nice if he/she did more than come in, eat shoot and leave.

 

If you would care to answer my question FleshnBones, maybe we could enter into meaningful dialogue.

 

Otherwise, for my part, you sound sadly like someone reciting what they think they know, parrot-fashion.

 

Oh, and 'Hope' is equitable with 'Faith', isn't it?

 

Both of them are a relative unknown, "a desire and fervent wish for that which we believe to be right, with no tangible or immediate evidence, to come to pass."

 

I have Faith in the Dharma, but it's a Faith defined by Confidence, rather than uncertainty, or Hope.

 

Over to you.

[Geishawhelk]

Christians constantly claim to have proof and knowledge to back up their beliefs. They tell others they are definitely wrong and going to hell.

The fact is, Christians truly Believe the Bible and its profession to be The Word of God. Therefore this is often transmitted by them to mean that we should naturally take this as the proof we are requesting.

 

Their knowledge consists of Biblical quotation, and assertion that this is quite literally 'Gospel truth' but they're missing the point. we seek tangible and irrefutable proof, and they cannot supply this, because ultimately the only 'proof' they have is their own unstinting belief.

 

The Bible, to all intents and purposes is Man-written hearsay, and cannot be substantiated with the kind of proof we as 'atheists' are requesting.

And so the fight is interminable and cyclical. Christians see it as proof. we don't. full stop, never the twain shall meet.

[Moose]

They tell others they are definitely wrong and going to hell. Is it any wonder the rest of us expect them to put their money where their mouth is?

No, that isn't how it usually goes down disgarcian.

 

We tell you what GOD saysin the Bible, you tell us to prove it, even when we just told you it's in the Scriptures, THEN, you claim it's from mere man, and written over and over again.....THEN, we have to prove that....and so on and so on......but you don't listen do ya? You just want to continue to debate and come on top as the one who defied the Christians and their, "truth".....

 

You know something, we don't have to prove anything..... if you and others want it....go get it yourself why don't ya......

 

In the meantime, why can't you show the respect you claim us Christians don't have........or just be quite??

 

Cheers,

M.

[Geishawhelk]

We tell you what GOD saysin the Bible, you tell us to prove it, even when we just told you it's in the Scriptures......

 

And there you have it. Exactly my point, back and forth, back and forth....

Atheists want something, Christians think they're giving it, but Athesists don't take the scriptures as proof, so Atheists challenge, Christians defend....

 

 

In the meantime, why can't you show the respect you claim us Christians don't have........or just be quite??

 

M.

 

Moose, Darling....you mean 'quiet'....

 

I think it would be nice if everyone showed respect.

I am Buddhist.

I don't believe in God.

As an Ex-Roman Catholic of 40 years standing, I have had a long Christian history, and know a bit about it.

Yet I would never be so disrespectful as to abuse someone for their beliefs - or lack of them.

There's a difference between respectful debate and constant slanging....

 

fine line maybe, but it's there all the same.

 

Hugs and metta everyone.

Shush now, and eat your greens.

[disgracian]

No, that isn't how it usually goes down disgarcian.

With all due respect, Moose, that is exactly how it goes down nearly all of the time. I routinely debate with Christians so I know from experience. I don't know many Christians who allow for the possibility that their beliefs are wrong or that any other path leads to Heaven. Maybe I've just met all the hardline ones.

We tell you what GOD saysin the Bible, you tell us to prove it, even when we just told you it's in the Scriptures,

As Geisha said, here's where it breaks down. If Christians didn't insist that there was proof then you'd find that hardly anybody would demand it. Why don't people give Buddhists a hard time over their beliefs? Because they keep to themselves and share only when asked. If Christians could take a leaf from that book then your problem would be solved overnight.

 

Right now, you just look like a petulant child stomping his feet saying "What, you actually want me to show you the proof I keep claiming I have?"

You just want to continue to debate and come on top as the one who defied the Christians and their, "truth".....

For your own sake, I ask that you give up your armchair psychology practice.

You know something, we don't have to prove anything..... if you and others want it....go get it yourself why don't ya......

That's great. Now keep your beliefs to yourself then. If, as you say, we want proof, rest assured we'll look for it on our own. As the saying goes, "don't call us, we'll call you."

In the meantime, why can't you show the respect you claim us Christians don't have........or just be quite??

I've got a great idea. How about Christians lead by the example you wish us to follow, and be quiet about your own beliefs? Wouldn't that be grand? Or in your ideal world, is it only Christians who get to tell the rest of the world what to believe?

 

Cheers,

D.

[elaina]

Apologies in advance if my understanding of the way this works is incorrect.

 

 

As I understand it, most christians believe you have two options upon death:

 

1) You follow god's rules in life and you get rewarded with a place in heaven.

 

2) You don't follow god's rules and he sends you to hell to be tortured by satan and his demons forever.

 

The question:

 

Why would satan say, "Ok god, send all the non-religious to me and I'll torture them for disobeying you"

 

I understand why it seems that way, but really it's not. One thing that is sort of interesting is that the concept of hell has become like a glorified Roman/Greek version, where the idea is that it is satan's domain and that he rules there. That's totally untrue. He doesn't rule there.He will be punished for eternity there,he's not the one in control.

 

About people who don't believe in God/andor follow His rules going there, that is harder to understand. I believe that God knows each person and each person's knowledge, capabilities, abiliites, thoughts, actions, and words. He knows each person's equation basically.

 

As a Christian, I am drawn to God and have a relationship with Him NOT cause being afraid of going to hell, but because of His love. I do not understand or pretend to know all that will happen after anyone dies. I think it's quite impossible to say oh yes without a doubt this will happen, because I have not experienced it yet.

 

I do believe though that God is Just and Good and Loving to everyone. I trust in Him that He makes right judgements. I know I am not God and am happy leaving all the judging stuff to Him.

 

Many people like some Catholics (I am not Catholic, but this is an interesting idea to me) believe that there is a purgatory where people are punished for their sins but are eventually let out of purgatory. I honestly don't know, but like i said, I trust that God is Good, that His judgements are Good, and I just leave it in His hands.

 

satan does not work for God though. Actually, satan hates God and he cannot hurt God, but he can hurt God through hurting God's Creation. We (and all the earth) are God's creation (whether you believe in evolution or creation, or both,whatever, but satan hurts the creation in order to try to get at God, because God loves us. It's like if you have a child that you love so much yet you are so strong that your enemies cannot hurt you, yet they can hurt your child, and when they hurt your child, it hurts you too, cause you love your child. You see what I mean please?

 

About rules, God made rules for the good of the people and the earth. Sadly, the earth and people have suffered a lot.For example, stealing is against God's rules. Why? Cause stealing hurts people, both the ones who lose what they need due to other's taking it and it hurts emotionally and spiritually those who steal. Anyways this is too long but if you have any questions please feel free to ask.

 

Peace

[Geishawhelk]

Many people like some Catholics (I am not Catholic, but this is an interesting idea to me) believe that there is a purgatory where people are punished for their sins but are eventually let out of purgatory.

 

Juat to let you know the current Pope has moved the goalposts and now has eliminated the teaching of Purgatory from Catholic doctrine (see an article here) because an awful lot of Catholics feel uneasy about stillborn or very young babies being committed to going there.

So in one fell swoop he has altered solid doctrine which has hitherto existed for early 800 years, and devalued the works of Dante and John Bunyan to boot.

 

Vatican 1 - Doctrine 0.

[Moai]

About rules, God made rules for the good of the people and the earth. Sadly, the earth and people have suffered a lot.For example, stealing is against God's rules. Why? Cause stealing hurts people, both the ones who lose what they need due to other's taking it and it hurts emotionally and spiritually those who steal. Anyways this is too long but if you have any questions please feel free to ask.

 

Peace

 

Is stealing bad because god says it is bad, or is it bad and god just acknowledges it?

[NoIDidn't]

The fact is, Christians truly Believe the Bible and its profession to be The Word of God. Therefore this is often transmitted by them to mean that we should naturally take this as the proof we are requesting.

 

Their knowledge consists of Biblical quotation, and assertion that this is quite literally 'Gospel truth' but they're missing the point. we seek tangible and irrefutable proof, and they cannot supply this, because ultimately the only 'proof' they have is their own unstinting belief.

 

The Bible, to all intents and purposes is Man-written hearsay, and cannot be substantiated with the kind of proof we as 'atheists' are requesting.

And so the fight is interminable and cyclical. Christians see it as proof. we don't. full stop, never the twain shall meet.

 

I agree with most of this. The Bible for Christians, is, well, the BIBLE. When asked for proof, this is where we point enquirers. We will never be able to offer tangible proof. Quite frankly, I don't think we should have to. Its God's job to prove himself.

 

Other religions have the same inherent flaw. There is no tangible proof. A muslim will point you to the Koran. A Jew will point you to the Tanach (sp?) or the Talmud. Other religions don't even have a *holy* book, just oral histories. The same can be said of Buddhism or Hinduism.

 

Where is the proof? The proof is whatever you have chosen to believe. I don't get why that is so hard to understand. Does anyone here with a chosen belief system have any *Tangible* proof of their beliefs?

[elaina]

Is stealing bad because god says it is bad, or is it bad and god just acknowledges it?

 

Is that like the question which came first the egg or the chicken?

 

I think it is both, stealing is bad cause God says it's bad and...

stealing is bad and God acknowledges it is bad.

 

God didn't make rules to be a party pooper or to imprison or make people unhappy. He made rules for the benefit of the people.

 

Like for example, if you have kids and you make the rule, don't run in the street and look both ways before you cross, you do not make that rule cause you're being a party pooper or you want to imprison or make your child unhappy, right? You want them to be safe and to learn how to take care of themselves so they will stay safe, right?

[NoIDidn't]

Is that like the question which came first the egg or the chicken?

 

I was thinking of this same phrase whenever all this proof talk is being made.

 

I think this is what it really boils down to. And who can really know since we came after both the chicken and the egg. Or so we were taught to believe anyway.

[disgracian]

All this talk of "proof" from both the religious and non-religious is misdirected. Proof exists in the domain of mathematics and logic, nowhere else as far as I am aware. For anything outside the aforementioned disciplines, there is just supporting evidence, sound reason, and faith.

 

Cheers,

D.