Mustang Sally Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 Ok. I'm waxing philosophical this afternoon. (What can I say? It's been a better-than-expected Tuesday at work...) I have to say, I'm a bit bothered by all the advice here to spy and coercively determine whether a suspected WS is, in fact, actually cheating... I realize it's simple minded on my part, but it just strikes me as dishonest and "sinking to another's low level" to try to gather evidence in such a way (PI, keylogger, etc...). It just seems to me that the more "noble" approach on the part of the BS would be just to confront the WS. If you can't do that, then it speaks to the true nature of the M, no? My H and I have had frank discussions about these types of issues in the past. It's a bit scary, but it IS possible to do it. Maybe I'm just crazy....?
reboot Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 No. They will always lie. And you have the right to know the truth, by whatever means.
Author Mustang Sally Posted November 6, 2007 Author Posted November 6, 2007 No. They will always lie. Hmmm. I didn't. And you have the right to know the truth, by whatever means. Maybe so.... Just seems so....pathetic, I guess, for lack of a better word. And if you as a BS are married to a WS that just lies, lies, lies, and denies, denies, denies....then WHY would any of these BS's EVER take these WS's back and try, try, try again? <more confusion>
michelangelo Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 In these days getting exposed potentially lethal STDs from an unfaithful spouse, then the truth by whatever means seems right to me. Is using stealth to expose infidelity on the same plane of behavior as the infidelity itself? I don't think so.
Cobra_X30 Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 Hmmm. I didn't. Maybe so.... Consider what you had to hide when making this comparison! Better to stoop so low as to spy, than leave it to your 16 yo boy to find the truth. I'm not down for a bunch of philisophical masterbation on this particular topic! It's too close to personal experience. When you are breaking vows and oaths, you lose your right to privacy. If your just acting distant and wierd... then you have nothing to fear!
tanbark813 Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 It just seems to me that the more "noble" approach on the part of the BS would be just to confront the WS. It's more noble but it's also too idealistic to be of much practical use. Most cheaters will lie until they have absolutely no other option and even then will likely only admit as little as possible. Going by gut instinct or resorting to covert methods of discovering information are much more time-/energy-effective.
JustBreathe Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Why do you stay with someone who would lie and lie and keep trying and trying? In my case he finally quit lying. But it was too late because I quit trying! haha! The need to know the facts and the need to be watchful and distrustful of your spouse are, in my opinion, a few of the sad reactions that a betrayed spouse has to having had the rug ripped out from under them. Their life has been turned upside down. They trust nothing.
Trimmer Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Just seems so....pathetic, I guess, for lack of a better word. You are right. It is pathetic. It feels pathetic, I can tell you that from personal experience. It feels pathetic that the only way you can get the truth about your supposedly committed partner is to stoop to that level. It's pathetic, and embarrassing, and unclean, and powerless, and hopeless, and masochistic. Are you thinking that BS's do this as some kind of balancing action, or trying to achieve some kind of moral victory? That it helps them heal, or feel positive about themselves or anything at all? They don't; it doesn't. It's pathetic and it's disgusting and it's a horrible experience, and sometimes it's the only way left to finding out the truth. Because 99 times out of 100, if you ask "Hey, honey, I just wanted to ask if you are having an inappropriate relationship with someone outside our marriage, or perhaps an affair?" what answer do you think you get? (And I don't mean 99/100 random couples, I mean 99/100 of couples where an affair is going on and the BS has gotten a whiff of it...) And if you as a BS are married to a WS that just lies, lies, lies, and denies, denies, denies....then WHY would any of these BS's EVER take these WS's back and try, try, try again? That's a completely separate question, but you do realize, don't you, that without "stooping" to doing some detective work, these BS's would not be equipped with the fundamental element they need to at least make an infomred decision for themselves: the truth? Yes, you are absolutely right: it is pathetic.
Ocean-Blue Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Ok. I'm waxing philosophical this afternoon. (What can I say? It's been a better-than-expected Tuesday at work...) I have to say, I'm a bit bothered by all the advice here to spy and coercively determine whether a suspected WS is, in fact, actually cheating... I realize it's simple minded on my part, but it just strikes me as dishonest and "sinking to another's low level" to try to gather evidence in such a way (PI, keylogger, etc...). It just seems to me that the more "noble" approach on the part of the BS would be just to confront the WS. If you can't do that, then it speaks to the true nature of the M, no? My H and I have had frank discussions about these types of issues in the past. It's a bit scary, but it IS possible to do it. Maybe I'm just crazy....? I think some resort to spying, etc because they can't rely on their spouse to be honest. After all, honestly is the very thing that is at the the heart of the matter...so how can a spouse expect the possible cheater to come clean?
Author Mustang Sally Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 Are you thinking that BS's do this as some kind of balancing action, or trying to achieve some kind of moral victory? That it helps them heal, or feel positive about themselves or anything at all? They don't; it doesn't. No. I realize it is a matter of survival. Really. I just am an advocate for brutal honesty and confrontation, I guess. It was really just a philosophical question. And Cobra's point about the irrelevance of "Philosophy" in this type of situation is also well-taken. Just musing, today, I guess. Carry on.
Trimmer Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 No. I realize it is a matter of survival. Really. I just am an advocate for brutal honesty and confrontation, I guess. That's a good way to put it - it may sound a little overblown to those who haven't been through it, but it does kind of feel like a matter of survival when you're in the middle of it. Back to the wall, do what you have to do... desperation, insanity, masochism. Lots of those good feelings go along with it... It was really just a philosophical question. Funny, I usually hate the highly general, philosophical posts: "What if a man says blah blah to a woman, and then the woman does blah blah?" My usual response is "forget the hypotheticals, how does this apply to you?" But this really struck a chord with me - probably because it wasn't a hypothetical in my own experience... And Cobra's point about the irrelevance of "Philosophy" in this type of situation is also well-taken. Hey, it's only "irrelevant" if no one feels like answering. Anyone is welcome to move right along to the next thread.
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