JoeBlo4441 Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 As a result of a few sour learning experiences in the dating arena, and prioritizing my education and career, at the age of 25, I'm only now beginning to feel ready to date. I've realized that one of these days, I'm going to meet the girl of my dreams, and I want to make sure I've properly "learned the trade" and avoid the regrets of what could have been. Given my inexperience in dating, what are some common mistakes to avoid and pitfalls to watch out for? I'm particularly interested in other men who have been in my position, or women who have dated such men.
oppath Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 Be slow to emotionally invest. Just because you have gone out a handful of times does not mean she likes you. Seriously. It does not mean she has any interest in a relationship progressing. A girl may have just broken up with a long term boyfriend or any number of things. Take your time before getting your hopes up for exclusivity.Make a goal: no relationships for at least 6 months! Just DATE. Sex does not mean they want a relationship with you.A woman will hold your lack of experience against you even if it is not a reason for anything. If they don't like something about you, it "will be because of your lack of experience." This does not mean it is true, the woman is only trying to justify things somehow. Therefore, if you are in a fight and she plays that card, it does not mean it is true. Just because you disagree on something or don't give her what she wants does not mean the reason is because you have not had relationships. Women will play that card on you. Do not allow them to use your lack of experience against you. True, it may be a reason for something awry, but it does not mean that it is a reason. You will likely be insecure about it, so don't let them use that insecurity to manipulate you.You are in for one wild and crazy ride. You will likely be used, taken advantage of, and feel a slew of negative emotions. Don't let it affect your self esteem. As a newbie, you will struggle, but understand, you may be behind in the race intially, but all it means is that you will close down that homestretch in a hurry.
Krytie TV Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 DO NOT be too eager to please. Gifts do not equal love. Have boundaries, and do not give in to requests that you will regret later. Some people will test your limits and take everything they can from you. Stand in front of a mirror and say it with me. No. No. No. Please learn to say that word. No one respects a doormat.
oppath Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 right on Krytie! Seriously, if you think something is wrong, do not tolerate. Say "I feel disrespected" and be willing to walk away. Don't feel that just because you have not had experience, that it does not mean your aren't perceptive when you are being treated poorly. Women will test you, especially if they know you don't have much experience. I was in that situation. the first girl I tried to seriously date, she basically said "if you had more experience..." when we were breaking up. the thing was, if I had more experience, I would have dropped her much more soon. Same thing with my ex..."if you had more experience," well, if I had more experience, I wouldn't have just said "I feel disrespected that you hang out with your ex, but won't tell him you have a boyfriend. If you are going to hang out with him, I want you to reveal my existence." I would have said "if you are unwilling to tell him about me, that means you aren't emotionally ready for a relationship. I am unwilling to be involved with someone who does not make me visible. Are you ready for a relationship?" While I had learned to speak up for myself, I was not willing to walk away when someone was treating me in a way I knew was disrespectful. At first, I would tolerate disrespect and not say anything. With some experiences, I would say "I don't like this" but I was not willing to walk away. After being burned a further time, I feel I am finally willing to say "this is what I want" and close the door myself if I feel I am treated unfairly. Don't feel that just because you have not had a gf, that you have to accept poor behavior. You will know when you aren't being treated with respect. Do not make excuses. Ask for what you want and be willing to walk away. Chances are, you will be all too willing to compromise!
Author JoeBlo4441 Posted November 6, 2007 Author Posted November 6, 2007 Thanks for the responses so far. I'm well aware of the risk of being used or falling prey to the possible desire to gain approval or simply being a doormat. I think my uncertainty lies in the idea of "knowing myself" in the context of being one who seeks a significant other my role as a significant other or boyfriend. The idea of me being a girl's boyfriend is totally foreign to me, and it's hard to visualize how I would act in such a situation. Perhaps this is one of those things that I will only learn with experience, but I have to admit discovering this side of myself is slightly scary and a source of slight insecurity. Getting back to my initial concern: that I feel the need to "catch up" and gain the dating experience of a typical person may age so that if I one day meet a special girl, I will have already made the mistakes and won't stumble. I have the idea of speed dating or something of that sort seems like a good choice, so I can get all the mistakes out of the way early. What do people think of this?
oppath Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 Dating and relationships are two different things. A good goal for yourself is no relationships for 6 months, hell, make it 1 year. Date. Speed dating may be something fun to try, but don't feel discouraged if it does not lead to dates. Online dating is a great way to go because you can talk to and meet a lot of women, though as a man it does require a lot of time. If dating a lot and playing catch up is your goal, that is fine. Date through any avenue that you can. I'd even recommend certain (not all companies) of the seduction school type weekend bootcamps just to get you out there and used to approaching lots and lots of women. A better alternative would be to ask someone you know, a friend (though he doesn't have to be a good one) who you feel is good at dating. Don't be embarrassed to tell him "hey, I've never really dated, you seem to be good with women, I want to start dating a lot and was wondering if you could give me some pointers." Seriously, no guy is going to think you are lame for that. If he is single and dating he very may well take you out with him to be his wingman to show you how it is done. I've taken out socially anxious friends and told them "go talk to that group of girls. Just grab a stool, set it in the middle of them, sit down, slowly look up over a period of 2 seconds, smile, and say hi." The guy is never blown out of the water because the women are typically thinking "is this actually happening?" Of course, you do have to choose the right women, and that is where a guy who dates a lot can help you. Some women are open for approach, some women only want to talk to their friends. Since you haven't dated much, it will be best for you to approach and ask out women who aren't serial daters (professional singles). You will want to meet someone social and approachable but not a girl who uses men for dinners, etc. Those women do exist, the ones who think "why not, free dinner" with every guy who asks. Those women will blow you out of the water. You'll need someone more down-to-earth. The good news is that MOST women are down-to-earth and just want to have a pleasant experience. Just because you've been single and have not dated, does not mean you don't know how to be funny, hold a conversation, etc. It does not mean you do not know how to flirt. All it means is that you have not done those things with intent. So...no relationship for 1 year. Speed date. Online date. Join a co-ed volleyball team. Invite those teammates to your place for a bbq. Also, ask out guy friends or acquaintances to go grab a beer, watch a game, whatever. It's the same skill as asking out a woman but less rejection. My dating life picked up when I made more of an effort to get to know other men, the ones on the outside of my social group. It sounds kind of gay, but having a strong male presence in your life, and being able to pick up the phone without hesistation to ask a dude for a beer makes it much easier to invite a woman out for a dirty martini.
Author JoeBlo4441 Posted November 6, 2007 Author Posted November 6, 2007 I'd even recommend certain (not all companies) of the seduction school type weekend bootcamps just to get you out there and used to approaching lots and lots of women. Can you make a suggestion? You've got me curious. Since you haven't dated much, it will be best for you to approach and ask out women who aren't serial daters (professional singles). You will want to meet someone social and approachable but not a girl who uses men for dinners, etc. Those women do exist, the ones who think "why not, free dinner" with every guy who asks. Those women will blow you out of the water. I actually prefer down-to-earth women, and generally speaking, associating with those types of people for that matter anyway. However, I do have a time-consuming professional life, so it is the "professional singles" that I tend to be around most. Give my time shortage and the fact that it is these types that I find myself around frequently, how do I find an outlet to the more laid back women that I'd prefer?
oppath Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 No, I can't make a suggestion without a PM. Most of those companies prey on marketing themselves to men with poor social skills, and they convince those men to keep buying the latest products, etc, as if it is the cure. It's really depressing. There are one-or-two groups who have a different approach, who advise against buying the ebooks, and that are more focussed on general social interactions than gaming women. So basically you'd be with a dating coach for the weekend, but it is a different mentality and clientele than the "how to be a pickup artist" books and tv shows. The marketing for those methods is really manipulative and those compaines prey on bitter men or men with poor social skills. It's sad to see those guys analyzing what they did wrong or plotting what to say or how to get in the girls pants. It really is sad, because you can tell those men aren't being themselves and they become almost obsessed with pickup and are quite miserable. I know people/companies/coaches who are different, but I refuse to publicize them, and really, the biggest thing those services do is just show you that it is safe to approach beautiful women and that it is safe to ask for a phone number. If someone says "watch this" it is easy to follow it. It is easy when someone says "go talk to that group of girls" and they are there for you no matter the outcome. I suggest asking a friend you think is good with women instead of paying $1000 for something like that. Really, many of the people who participate are quite wretched and you can be taken for a ride.
Enema Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 Don't think a woman is better than you, or that she's doing you a favour by going out with you. You're equals..... don't let her get "hand" to quote Seinfeld
Author JoeBlo4441 Posted November 6, 2007 Author Posted November 6, 2007 Are there no women on here who dated guys who started dating late? I'm just interested in hearing from the female perspective.
Ponzoli Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 He and I don't always see eye to eye, but I do agree with his basic point. In all fairness, dude does know what he is talking about.
LexiB Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Did you ever see the show "The Pickup Artist" with that Mystery guy who wore black nail polish and goggles and gave out medallians? Don't do any of that junk
Author JoeBlo4441 Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 I've heard of a book by that title, and I'm familiar with the "pick-up" concept it espouses. I don't have the personality to be that type of person anyway so I don't see that being a problem.
Timberlane Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Common pitfalls of dating: 1. Waking up in the morning too early. 2. Wrong tie. 3. Undue concern about the wine. 4. Squirrels! 5. Leaving underwear under the ottoman. 6. Bad choice of favorite TV show. 7. That stupid laugh of yours.
Author JoeBlo4441 Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 Common pitfalls of dating: 1. Waking up in the morning too early. 2. Wrong tie. 3. Undue concern about the wine. 4. Squirrels! 5. Leaving underwear under the ottoman. 6. Bad choice of favorite TV show. 7. That stupid laugh of yours. Pardon my ignorance, but can you elaborate on #'s 1 and 4? And as I understand it, I translate the rest to mean: 2. Poor fashion sense 3. Pretension / snobbery 5. Lack of cleanliness / poor hygiene 6. Disturbing tastes / hobby 7. Annoying quirks
Timberlane Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 It's all a joke, really. You can't avoid the common pitfalls as far as I can see. They are just out there. It's terribly awkward when you meet someone for the first time and you find you are not attracted to them in the slightest. It's horrible when neither of you have anything to say. But there will be times when the planets are aligned and all moves forward like a greased goose sliding through a pipe. Er, not the best image. The best advice anyone can give is to relax and have patience.
Author JoeBlo4441 Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 It's all a joke, really. You can't avoid the common pitfalls as far as I can see. They are just out there. It's terribly awkward when you meet someone for the first time and you find you are not attracted to them in the slightest. It's horrible when neither of you have anything to say. But there will be times when the planets are aligned and all moves forward like a greased goose sliding through a pipe. Er, not the best image. The best advice anyone can give is to relax and have patience. I figured it was just a joke, but I was just trying to make something of it. I absolutely loathe awkward moments, and for whatever reason, I tend to blame myself for them. I'd imagine in a dating scenario, I'd tend to do the same since between my date and I, I'd likely have the least experience. I know some things cannot be learned without real-world experience. I'm basically trying to learn as much as I can about dating without making the mistakes through real-world dating experience, so once I do start dating, I can minimize the damage when I do make mistakes (if that makes any sense).
norajane Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Flirt, smile, laugh, and have fun. The rest will take care of itself.
JCD Posted November 11, 2007 Posted November 11, 2007 I suggest you befriend as many women as you can. That way you will learn about them and one of them will probably become your best friend and perhaps a future wife. Don't date for two weeks, fall in love, get married and then start finding out who she really is. That's a disaster in waiting. Go slow, get to know the women, etc.
BeautifulMusic Posted November 11, 2007 Posted November 11, 2007 Common pitfalls of dating: 1. Waking up in the morning too early. 2. Wrong tie. 3. Undue concern about the wine. 4. Squirrels! 5. Leaving underwear under the ottoman. 6. Bad choice of favorite TV show. 7. That stupid laugh of yours. Squirrels! Always my biggest pitfall, for sure...
LovesDog Posted November 11, 2007 Posted November 11, 2007 just have fun, be a complete gentleman, be honest and ask lots of questions as well as talking about yourself. if you are uncomfortable, make them talk! you can always keep it casual by going hiking or out for coffee, just to get to know someone. make them laugh. i love men that make me laugh/smile. basically, just get your butt out there. dating is no mystery. and we'll never figure it out being as though men and women are of different species! and i HATE squirrels! they always interfere...
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