mattym Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 I've just got PM access after 100 or so posts if that helps? Matt
Author Triarge Posted November 28, 2007 Author Posted November 28, 2007 Thanks Mattym.. Got a way to go
mattym Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 I feel your pain - OW contacted me last night, so we're in a similar boat...
LifesontheUp Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 Thanks Mattym.. Got a way to go I've got it and I'm on 82 posts. Think it is down to length of time on here too. You can send to my e-mail if you'd like and I can let you know in return what I think....entirely up to you.
Ladyjane14 Posted November 28, 2007 Posted November 28, 2007 I don't know the exact criteria, but I think your participation on other threads counts as well. Basically, they're just weeding out trolls. You know how it is. You can get access to PM through subscription though. That's pretty much automatic. I guess the line of thinking would be that trolls are unlikely to spend any money just to harass folks. I have to say, the nice thing about subscription is that the ads go away. My PC is pretty much run by a hamster on a wheel, so that speeds me up a little.
Author Triarge Posted November 30, 2007 Author Posted November 30, 2007 I thought about subscribing but I didnt want any 'suspicious' debits appearing on my credit card that might lead a trail back here. It would be nice to get rid of the ads. I'll just have to keep spamming the boards
Can'tGiveUp Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 Triarge, I would have preferred to PM you but...at the risk of being blasted i will share what my xMM has told me. He left me to reconcile with his W after a year long separation. His reasons were similar to yours - needed to know that he did everything possible to keep the "family" together. About a year and a half later we had an A that lasted a few months without a Dday. I will tell you that we have had long periods of NC (I believe that the longest was 5 months - well beyond the 21 days someone mentioned to break an addiction) broken by sporadic email communications, a couple of accidental meetings and one "on purpose" lunch. I am respectful (I guess in my own way) of his desire to make his marriage work. I have never suggested we start or continue what we had. Sounds like your xOW is not. The following is what he has told me. I do not believe he lies to me. He has no reason to. He has always been open and aboveboard in his dealings with me. Yes, he lied to his W, and has never come clean regarding me, though she has some knowledge of our R when they were apart. She suspected the A and that was part of why we ended it. He still thinks of me, he cares for me, he is jealous if he has heard I am dating someone. He uses thoughts of me to get him through rough periods in his marriage. He will always remember me...he will always wonder "what if". He accepts that it was his decision and his choice. He can only hope that it was the right one for his kids and his W. He also thought it would be easier if I was angry at him...though he never tried that method. We clearly understand each other, have an ease with each other, a similarity in thought and humour, a connection that I have never experienced before. I can only hope that I will find that again with someone else. If you are truly dedicated to your W, then you need to accept the role the OW played in your life. Recognize that you will likely never forget her. And strengthen yourself against the advances she makes. Tell her everytime that it just can't be. And try to maintain the distance you can despite the work environment. My xMM is honest with me - he has told me that there are good and bad days - that it is not always bad at home. Maybe you need to tell your OW that things are great at home. Repeat it everytime you see her - whether it is the truth or not. It seems like she can't accept that you can live with the bad days, so maybe you need to tell her that there aren't any - whether she believes you or not. I wish you luck. It won't be easy and you will likely always wonder if you made the right decision.
Author Triarge Posted December 3, 2007 Author Posted December 3, 2007 Hi CGU I read your post and I understand what your trying to say. I have been honest with the OW but have to admit that I've not told her about the good things that are going on at home. I'm not sure I could rub her nose in it like that. I do respect the role she has played in my life and I'm not going to forget that. Like you say, I will have possible the rest of my life to wonder "What if?" However, I dont feel like I've ended up with the kids and a consolation prize here. Far, far from it. Things really are good at home, but there is A LOT of work to be done. On both mine and my wifes side. Theres been really good and really bad moments. I'm going through the His Needs/Her Needs book at the moment. My W doesnt seem as motivated to read it as I am, which is confusing, concidering you'd think it would be the opposite way round. I think arguments are happening because were not on the same page as yet. I'm probably having more 'more' expectations than before which I realise I have to be realistic about. I'm now providing 100% more affection and love than I probably ever have. The result is that I seem to get less in return It's like I'm learning how to fullfill my half of the contract but getting frustrated that she seems in different to finding out about her side of things. I have to go but theres more I wanted to say. I'll post back later. (more)
whichwayisup Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 read your post and I understand what your trying to say. I have been honest with the OW but have to admit that I've not told her about the good things that are going on at home. I'm not sure I could rub her nose in it like that The thing is, you telling her things are good is NOT rubbing it in her face. SHE has to know the truth otherwise she will think you still want her around you, paying attention to you, hoping that you'll slip up and go back to her. Come on, man! I think you need to focus on not hurting your wife...You're starting to sound (abit, tiny bit) like Matty, don't wanna hurt the OW's feelings...Well, your OW (Just like Matty's too) couldnt' care less about your marriage, let alone what affect all this has had on your wife.
smartgirl Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Triarge - I have to say I agree strongly with WWIU. My H was also trying to take the soft pedal approach with OW. As a result, she didn't get that their R was over. The A itself was over and had been over before I found out, but she still wanted them to have a close relationship that was just between the two of them. After 7 months of her continually button-holing him and wanting to talk about "them" he finally snapped one day and for the first time made it clear that our M was the most important thing to him and there would be no more secret conversations between the two of them. It got heated and ugly, but it was the last time she brought it up. Our MC believes that up until then, he had been too vague about his feelings and his intentions, because he thought she would quickly lose interest in him once I found out and stating things stronger would not be necessary. People will often hear what they want to hear and find hope in the smallest window crack. You need to be crystal clear with her about how you feel about your wife and family.
smartgirl Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Sorry, also wanted to comment about your wife. She has had a great shock and is now trying to figure out who she has really been married to all this time and who she wants to be, now and in the future. She may well be torn between wanting to kick you out and wanting to keep you. But if she has not been able to come to some understanding of why you did this terrible thing in a way that she can have some empathy with it, she may feel that it is only you that needs to do any work towards the marriage. There are many, many elements of my H's personality and personal history going back to childhood that played the lead role in him being vulnerable to an A. I can have empathy for that, because I share some similar baggage and I know how it can make you feel. We were both also able to see how we had put romance and intimacy on the back burner as the work and child-rearing became increasingly overwhelming. We talked a lot about the elements of our R that lead to us both feeling alone and neglected. I cannot say that if I had someone pursuing me and making me feel desired the same way he did, that I would not have also made the same stupid mistake. That allows me to be more forgiving than I might have been in other circumstances. It also made me feel motivated to make things better because I didn't want to go back to the way our R had become anymore than he did. If I was going to stay in this marriage, one of the things I expected was that it was going to be more satisfying for me and him. Your wife has to be motivated to make things different. I don't know enough about how things were for her vs. you before the A or how she might want things to be different going foward. You will likely need MC to focus on that. Speaking from personal experience, this is like entering into a dark tunnel where you have only limited emotional connections to people and things going on outside of that tunnel. Your emotions range from anger, to love, to hurt, to vindictive, to numb, to depressed, to optimistic and everywhere in between. Your wife may be in the throes of depression and she should see a doctor to be checked out. Depression doesn't always look the way people expect it to, but it still is doing a lot of damage. We'll all be waiting to hear more. Good luck.
Can'tGiveUp Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Hi CGU I read your post and I understand what your trying to say. I have been honest with the OW but have to admit that I've not told her about the good things that are going on at home. I'm not sure I could rub her nose in it like that. I do respect the role she has played in my life and I'm not going to forget that. Like you say, I will have possible the rest of my life to wonder "What if?" However, I dont feel like I've ended up with the kids and a consolation prize here. Far, far from it. Things really are good at home, but there is A LOT of work to be done. On both mine and my wifes side. Theres been really good and really bad moments. I have to go but theres more I wanted to say. I'll post back later. (more) I guess a little nose rubbing might be in order then? But that will only work if you don't slip up and head back to her for round 5. That is where she is getting the mixed messages...the old actions speak louder than words... And I wasn't suggesting that your wife was a consolation prize...just that even if you did manage full NC and never saw the OW again, she may remain somewhere in your head. That is something that you will have to deal with. So often it in these forums it sounds like you go NC, and everything is better and it is like the other person never existed. That's just not true. As for feeling like you are putting all the effort into fixing things, could be that you are for now. Like smartgirl said - she is probably trying to figure out who you are. I think you will be experiencing a lot of ups & downs in the next year or so...
Author Triarge Posted December 4, 2007 Author Posted December 4, 2007 Hmm.. here are some 'snippets' of the email exchange that took place last week. I sent these to LOTU who very kindly looked over them because I didnt want to post the whole emails here.. anyway, they're here to try and illustrate that I DID try and tell her straight but in the end it ended up creating more drama. Her to me after a chat about her trying a new career.. If I leave *work* It means I will also be leaving you Its not just as hard decission any more, its a massive decission. We would just never see one another, it would be over. I mean really over Part of my reply was.. You say that if you left it would 'really' be over. It is 'really' over I cant have it in my head any other way. How can I fix things at home if I think about 'us' still being on the burner? I need to think of you as 'moving on' so I can move forward too; as much as that hurts. Then..I got. Did you not know that you have never actually been that honest with me before and its taken you this long to say those words - 'Its over' It may be over in your head, and how I wish that I too had a switch that I could turn off! But it sure isn't over in my head and wont be for a very long time! and.. Thanks for making this MISTAKE in YOUR life, that I now have to suffer with, because it sure wasn't a mistake in mine! Thanks for throwing my whole life in the air for you to settle back down to what you had before. That just makes me feel used. And yet again I am the one that ends up sorting this mess out, instead of you taking responsibility. Again its me thats forced into making a decission to sort all this out, by me feeling like I have to leave my 20 year job that I love. Leaving you yet again to carry on as you were before. You are a week person, I realisised that a long time ago, but that didn't matter to me, I liked that in you, I like to drive you, I could have help you to think positive, achieve your dreams I just feel like yet again you have driven me into making your life easier after all weve been through. No wonder I had all the previous mails this morning giving me your positive thoughts on me moving on. That would be nice for you wouldn't it. All sorted. Your right about one things, I dont need you to tell me anything I can and will make my own decissions in my own time. I havn't fallen out with you, I will still talk to you, although you may not talk to me after this, I know you dont take critizem very well. Why do I still want you after all this? Who knows? But I do Anyway.. that and several petty emails after that kind of made me really angry with her. I've never felt that angry with her before and it made it easier to deal with. She later sent an apology saying that she'd made a fool out of herself and apologised. I accepted her apology but made it clear what I needed to do still stands. (more)
mattym Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Triage, just a thought I had... Are all these exchanges on a work computer? If so ( and I'm sure you've already thought of it) be careful - you don't know what she could be storing to use against you later on when she doesn't get her own way - suddenly all these emails that are 'inappropriate' at work surface - especially as you can start to see some bitterness coming out here ' I'm giving up my job & you get to stay the same' etc etc etc A woman scorned and all that..... regards Matt
smartgirl Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Triarge - wow, those emails give me the chills. But they have served a good purpose for you I think in seeing that NC, or as much as you can achieve in a work setting, is an absolute must. I say that not because I think OW needs to be punished, but because she needs to shed any thoughts of a R of ANY kind with you and the more contact she has the harder that is for her to do. You have to let her know in some way that you will not be emailing or texting with her on this subject again and then you have to delete anything she sends without reading them. It is clear from these exchanges that you will never have the final word - she will have a comeback to everything you say. So you have to stop talking. As a BS, I figure this woman knew she was getting involved with a married family man and should have known the odds were not good that it would amount to anything. However, it is clear she doesn't see it that way and that despite all the choices she made (including to divorce her H, right?) she now wants to hold you completely responsible for everything that happened. In her mind, she is an innocent victim. So given that is the case, you need to try and think of this a different way. Imagine this were not an A. Imagine you were coworkers who were dating and then broke up because the R just wasn't meant to be. But then one of you fell in love with someone else almost right away and got engaged. So now, the alone partner has to endure the knowledge that the person they loved has moved on, is happy with someone else and they are in a postion via the working relationship of having some exposure to the happy couple. I think you can see how painful that would be. That does not really change any of conditions. The first R should have ended for a variety of reasons. Both persons must recover and move on, though this usually happens at different speeds. OW does not want to accept this reality. She must come to the conclusion that there is nothing she can do to alter the trajectory of this situation and that trying to maintain a R with you will only prolong her grief. As much as it would help her emotionally, she will not leave this job. She blames you for everything and does not see why she should lose you and also lose her job. You seem to feel that because she is the one who can't/won't move on, she should be the one to leave the job. On one hand, I agree with you. But a case can also be made for why you should be the one to leave. You entered into an A and let it continue for a long, long time. You have a marriage that you are trying to preserve, but you are still weak and vulnerable to the emotional appeals and influence of OW. I think you have to be the one to leave or this horrible situation will continue on and on. You may have to be creative in looking for another job. You may need to find a job that isn't your longterm job, but an interim job until you can find something better. Discuss this with your wife because the change will affect the whole family. But I have to believe it would mean a lot to her that you are willing to make that kind of sacrifice for the sake of your marriage.
White Flower Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Hi CGU I read your post and I understand what your trying to say. I have been honest with the OW but have to admit that I've not told her about the good things that are going on at home. I'm not sure I could rub her nose in it like that. I do respect the role she has played in my life and I'm not going to forget that. Like you say, I will have possible the rest of my life to wonder "What if?" However, I dont feel like I've ended up with the kids and a consolation prize here. Far, far from it. Things really are good at home, but there is A LOT of work to be done. On both mine and my wifes side. Theres been really good and really bad moments. I'm going through the His Needs/Her Needs book at the moment. My W doesnt seem as motivated to read it as I am, which is confusing, concidering you'd think it would be the opposite way round. I think arguments are happening because were not on the same page as yet. I'm probably having more 'more' expectations than before which I realise I have to be realistic about. I'm now providing 100% more affection and love than I probably ever have. The result is that I seem to get less in return It's like I'm learning how to fullfill my half of the contract but getting frustrated that she seems in different to finding out about her side of things. I have to go but theres more I wanted to say. I'll post back later. (more) Hi Triarge, Your post concerns me. My friend was cheated on by her fiancée. She forgave and they moved on. A couple of years later SHE cheated and when I asked why she said she was just discovering her anger about his A. Well they've been working on that for a couple of years. Then she recently found his profile on a well-known website with the exOW as his only "friend"on that site. The point is, I think your W may be repressing some anger and just wants to keep the peace for your sake. But it will come out one way or another whether it's spending or eating or cheating. Bring it up with her/your counselor because she needs to deal with her anger. She may not look angry, but deep, deep down inside she is.
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