White Flower Posted November 10, 2007 Posted November 10, 2007 Yes, people do change. That doesnt mean they walk away free of thier past. Change comes with consequences. Those jails do not simply exist to rehabilitate. They exist first and foremost to punish! Your justifcations and excuses mean nothing. You control your own actions and the responsibility those actions create. Blame others all you want if it makes you feel better, but at the end of the day you must live with truth of it. You have a debt to pay! Yes, she has a debt to pay, and I'm sure she is doing that because Hefty says she is "doing everything right." Don't just copy and paste what you want from my post--read all of it! There are many sides to this and we're all here to point that out. It's true what someone else is posting on another thread. It seems that we tell the BH to kick the b---- out when she cheats, but we tell the BW to work it out and forgive him. Double standards all over the place. I appreciate what Ladyjane14 advises the most. Good luck Hefty
norajane Posted November 10, 2007 Posted November 10, 2007 Got the DNA results back and they are a match Now what to figure out to do about my WW situation. I just wish this did not happen to my daughter. She is all I have at this point. I'm glad for you. One step at a time. Your wife wasn't thinking much about the impact on your daughter when she was playing around, so you have to do the serious thinking now. Take as much time as you need to figure out what is best for you and your daughter now. While you're thinking, please consult a lawyer. BE INFORMED even if you aren't sure what you want to do yet. Whatever you do, do not move out of the house and leave your daughter in your wife's care. She could claim you 'abandoned' them and that will make it difficult for you in terms of child custody if either you or your wife files for divorce.
Author heftysmurf Posted November 13, 2007 Author Posted November 13, 2007 Thank you. I know this is the beginning and I have a LONG road to go. I am just all over the place and wish I could come to a conclusion and move on. The little I have left I save for my daughter. Honey I love you
Cobra_X30 Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Yes, she has a debt to pay, and I'm sure she is doing that because Hefty says she is "doing everything right." Don't just copy and paste what you want from my post--read all of it! There are many sides to this and we're all here to point that out. It's true what someone else is posting on another thread. It seems that we tell the BH to kick the b---- out when she cheats, but we tell the BW to work it out and forgive him. Double standards all over the place. I appreciate what Ladyjane14 advises the most. Good luck Hefty I'm not applying any double standards here! I dont just throw out some cookie cutter advice, each situation is different. Believe me when I say that walking the line for a week or a month does not wash away the lies and betrayal. When I say that she has a debt to pay, it's not just to Hefty! She owes her daughter, herself, and anyone who cares for thier family. Oh, and trust me I read your whole post. I do apologize for the rampant use of the 2nd person. I love the advice LJ, NJ, and WWIU provide for people. It is always spot on!
reboot Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 It seems that we tell the BH to kick the b---- out when she cheats, but we tell the BW to work it out and forgive him. Double standards all over the place.I've noticed that myself....
White Flower Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I'm not applying any double standards here! I dont just throw out some cookie cutter advice, each situation is different. Believe me when I say that walking the line for a week or a month does not wash away the lies and betrayal. When I say that she has a debt to pay, it's not just to Hefty! She owes her daughter, herself, and anyone who cares for thier family. Oh, and trust me I read your whole post. I do apologize for the rampant use of the 2nd person. I love the advice LJ, NJ, and WWIU provide for people. It is always spot on! I appreciate you clarifying that, thanks. Sorry if I jumped to conclusions.
Author heftysmurf Posted November 14, 2007 Author Posted November 14, 2007 I am trying to see through this for my families sake. I am hurt destroyed what have you but I am trying. We are going to try a NC weekend. In the meantime I am going to try my best to be nice. No angry outbursts, no bad thoughts,. I am going to try and pretend just for a moment nothing happened. then she is going to stay at a hotel for the weekend and we can experience life apart. I do not know if this is going to help but hey it's worth a shot. Every time I look into my daughters eyes I want to cry. It is you that is giving me the power to take a legitimate shot at reconciling. Thank you baby.
White Flower Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 She's going to stay in a hotel with who? Yeah, Hefty, I wondered that too. Is it really a good idea to have her where you can't see her when there is a trust issue at stake? And didn't I read in an earlier post that there might be a little bit of a financial problem? This hotel business is going to rack up. I think she needs to be around so you can make sure there is NC between THEM. That's just my two cents. Good luck, hun.
Author heftysmurf Posted November 14, 2007 Author Posted November 14, 2007 I am just so confused. Part of me is so hurt. I no longer sleep in my own bed or wear my ring. I feel so alone. I do not know if I can do this.
Ladyjane14 Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 She's going to stay in a hotel with who? OTOH, she was cheating right under his nose all this time while living at home. Smurf can't watch her 24/7, and those who want to cheat WILL find a way. We can't control that because we can't control other people's choices. All we can do is decide if we'll extend our trust, or not.
Ladyjane14 Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 I am just so confused. Part of me is so hurt. I no longer sleep in my own bed or wear my ring. I feel so alone. I do not know if I can do this. Did you ever watch Finding Nemo with your little girl? This is a 'Dory' moment where you "just keep swimming, swimming, swimming". It's one foot in front of the other, deep breaths, controlling your thought patterns, and focusing on the immediate needs of you and your daughter. You're overwhelmed, bogging down. Let your thoughts process more slowly, let them trickle in. And when they threaten to take over, redirect your conscious mind to a more mundane matter. Make your shopping list, do a crossword, whatever... as long as your brain is engaged. Above all, have some faith that your situation is TEMPORARY. It WILL be resolved one way or the other, and normality WILL return to your life. Smile when you can, so you're not missing out on the joy in your life.
Ladyjane14 Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 OTOH, she was cheating right under his nose all this time while living at home. Smurf can't watch her 24/7, and those who want to cheat WILL find a way. We can't control that because we can't control other people's choices. All we can do is decide if we'll extend our trust, or not. p.s. Just thinking out loud, but I wanted to add something. I'm thinking it might be an important part of recovery to 'LET GO' of your wayward spouse. It's like 'the path back to sanity'. The old marriage is dead and gone. Why not bury it?... at least in emotional terms. It wasn't working anyway. From there, you can either enter into a new agreement or move on. In a new agreement, say... it was a new person, they wouldn't belong to you in any significant way. You'd be single, a bachelor making his own choices and decisions, determining whether this "new person" is right for you or not. In recovery, it seems like every aspect of the relationship must be reinvented, redesigned. New boundaries are put in place, we learn to communicate in new ways. But all those things begin... with letting go of the old marriage. When you accept that your former partner is lost to you, you have nothing left to lose. You're free of your fears of failure, free to build from the ground up.
reboot Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 OTOH, she was cheating right under his nose all this time while living at home.I certainly can't argue with that. And you're probably right (as usual ) I just think that separating while in the midst of an affair (even one that is supposedly over) makes it easy to continue the affair (or maybe just have one last "yee-haw") without any further repercussions.
Ladyjane14 Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 I just think that separating while in the midst of an affair (even one that is supposedly over) makes it easy to continue the affair (or maybe just have one last "yee-haw") without any further repercussions. Well, you know I never like to do anything half-assed. A better plan would either be to separate altogether with all that a decision like that entails... or not. Physical separation does increase the likelihood of permanent separation. And if one has NOT emotionally "let go" of their wayward, even a weekend apart can be hard to stomach, producing lots of additional anxiety. The thing to remember for Smurf, assuming he really feels like he needs the breathing space, is that if she's got it in her mind to have that last "yee-haw"... she's going to do it regardless. Waywards can (and do) backslide a time or two before they get it right. It's a risk that goes with the territory in terms of reconciliation.
Cobra_X30 Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 The thing to remember for Smurf, assuming he really feels like he needs the breathing space, is that if she's got it in her mind to have that last "yee-haw"... she's going to do it regardless. Waywards can (and do) backslide a time or two before they get it right. It's a risk that goes with the territory in terms of reconciliation. This is true! Hefty, I am strongly in favor of LJ's advice. At this point it doesnt matter what your wife does or doesnt do, the damage is done, you shouldnt have to watch her 24/7 to make her faithful. At this point you need to seperate the issues you caused in the marriage with the affair. In other words, you need to take 0% responsibility for this affair. As long as you blame yourself you will be weak, when in fact you need to be strong! Very strong! We both know that you made mistakes, take responsibility for that. Use that to focus on bieng a better man! With or without her. I have this nagging fear that if you make a positive change, your wife is the kind of person that will pat herself on the back later, saying "that affair was the best thing I ever did".
abeliever Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 I know exactly how you are feeling at this point! Man, it is hard isn't it? But the posts are correct. You cannot watch her 24/7 and really why would you want to? Wouldn't you much rather let he go, (let her do her dirt) then if she comes back to you then you know its REAL. Not forced! But I can tell you I know that pain and I feel it for you. Just remember this is about you to. Don't forget to take care of you, long hot baths, talking a walk. When you need to break down and cry just do it. No one will fault you. Man or not, the pain is sometimes too much to hold in. I would go into my personal bathroom and scream! I shocked myself by how long and just how scary that sound was. But let it out. I know from my experience and correct me if I am wrong. Is it the hardest to let go of what you "thought" your marriage was? That was the hardest (still is at times) its hard to see the truth --that your marriage is possibly a lie? That what you cherished and believed that your life was happy? That was how I thought anyway. Then to find out I was living a lie. I would look at other couples and say man I am glad I have a good marriage (thougths before all the of truth came out). But the reality is your marriage is in trouble and so are you emotionally. It is the firt step is to see it for what it is and most are right. YOU HAVE TO LET GO! The more you try to control it so it can go back to the way it used to be, the more it gets out of control. Easier said than done, but slowly let that dream of it go. The dream of what you thought is - is now no more. Feeling your pain has brought me to tears. This is the most emotion I have had in a few weeks. But I too remember the discovery of my marriage is going to be over and I did not want it. But reality is I cannot do it on my own. Plus he really left me a long time ago. I was holding on my to dream of my marriage, it really wasn't what I thougth it was. This is my first marriage, and I never in a million years thought I would be divorced. My family members all have been married 20 yrs or better til 2004 then my uncle and aunt divorced after 32 yrs! Now me. Although I am still in the middle of it. It's better day by day. Do you really get over it? I am venturing to say no but you can learn to live with it. At least that is where I am at right now. Best of Luck. abeliever
Author heftysmurf Posted November 14, 2007 Author Posted November 14, 2007 You are right. In all honesty if this had happened with no kids involved I could just let go. Hard to kiss 11 years together but I would. Take the good memories throw out the bad and move on. I know it was not me that caused this. I know what I could do better in future relationships to never have this happen again. I just question my ability to invest it in someone who would do this to me. It is my daughter that leaves me in this world of hurt. I am angry at my wife for doing this to her and sad for my daughter. I had my daughters whole future planned out. I envisioned that first school bus day. That future is likely shattered. I never wanted her to be from a broken home (mind you mine was and IS broken) but from her perspective it was not. She loves us both dearly and is happy. My daughter has been turning out great. She talks, does funny things, and makes me so happy. I great change went on inside of me when she was born. I felt the most true love I ever felt. I just hate the fact I was dealt a pack of cards I did not want to play. I want to be their everytime she does something new. I never wanted her to have a stepdad/stepmom. I know I can continue to be the number one male influence in her life but it will not be the same. It is so early in this and I am constantly searching for the quick fix. I feel so uncomfortable looking or touching my wife. I do not wear the ring she still does. My daughters play room now has a bed in a bag where I sleep. I am going to start contradicting myself now. It is HARD to stop loving someone after 11 years in a week. I did so many nice things for her and her for me. Met for lunch bought her a locket with mine and my daughters pictures for her birthday last month, went to california and found a stone with our names embeded in it. It is hard to turn off like a light switch. I in some ways think we could be better as a result of this together. I just don't know if any level of trust can be established. Can it ever be? I sincerly want to thank you for your kind words and support on this. Your insight and vision from the outside looking in perspective. I do not know where I would be without you. Thank you again. Time for more crying
abeliever Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 I feel your pain so much. The shear devastation of it. Yes, your whole world is upside down. Even the "dream" that you had planned out? Yep I did that too! It is sooooo hard to comprehend why a person would give up a life they fought so hard to accomplish. But people do this everyday. I wish I had the answer for you- I don't. I wish I knew for myself. But hang in there. Hope any kind words I speak helps. I have been there. You might try IC it may help. I went and it did but didn't. Being on here has really helped. Because even when you have unhealthy vents spewing from your mouth at least here someone knows where you come from. They can talk you out of a stupid impulsive act. They can also know exactly where you come from. Most therapists haven't a clue of what you are talking about. (my experience) But whatever you decide and when the lowest of low comes (and it will trust me) get on here seek me out or any of the others. We will help you through. Hang in there. It gets worse before it gets better. But know you can and WILL live thru this. abeliever
Ladyjane14 Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 Abeliever explained it better than I did, but still... I think maybe there's some confusion for you on what we're talking about when we say "letting go". Your emotions are your emotions. You're going to feel whatever it is you feel, whether that be love, or anger, or sadness, or remorse.. what-have-you. Now, you do have a limited choice on how much you're going to indulge those feelings. For example, when you catch yourself wallowing in sadness... you might give yourself a mental shake, lace on your sneakers, and go for a walk. But still... you're gonna feel what you feel. So, "letting go" doesn't mean you can just suddenly decide you're not going to love your WW, or be angry with her, or whatever you're feeling toward her. What it means... is that you're willing to release your controls over her. Now, I'm not accusing you of being some kind of "control freak". Never that. But when you've been betrayed this way, the urge is strong to try to "manage" your partner, to prevent her from hurting you again by keeping up a more or less constant vigilance. That's too exhausting, and it doesn't really accomplish anything. It doesn't work, because it doesn't allow you to view your former partner with exact clarity. You can make yourself nuts, checking up on her, but it won't make you trust her. Trust is something that reappears MUCH further on down the pike. In recovery, it must be EARNED by the WS, and then once it's been earned... it must be called to the fore by the betrayed spouse. At that point, you would have to take a 'leap of faith'. But... we're talking months and sometimes as much as two years into the future. For now, it's enough that you merely observe her, that you open the cage door and see where she flies.... and that you keep that "cage door" open for long enough to be observe her true reaction. This "opening of the cage door" is an internal change. It has nothing to do with physical separation or emotional withdrawal. It's more a matter of giving her the freedom to make her own choices without your vested input. You're prepared at this point to be okay either way she goes. You're self-sustaining, complete and whole unto yourself. "Letting go" is releasing the expectations of who you thought your partner was and who you'd like her to be. Rather, you're just quietly observing to see who she IS.
whichwayisup Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 It is my daughter that leaves me in this world of hurt. I am angry at my wife for doing this to her and sad for my daughter. I had my daughters whole future planned out. I envisioned that first school bus day. That future is likely shattered. I never wanted her to be from a broken home (mind you mine was and IS broken) but from her perspective it was not. She loves us both dearly and is happy. This is why when/if you and your wife split up, you both can be wonderful and loving parents to your child, just not under the same roof as one family unit. It will be hard, it will hurt and there will be some ups and downs, but your daughter can and WILL get through this as long as you and your wife put all your efforts into being good parents and not let the bad stuff and ego get in the way. I know you're in pain, but in time, things will get better.
Author heftysmurf Posted November 14, 2007 Author Posted November 14, 2007 You make a lot of sense. Sit back watch observe and relax as much as possible. Find out the true her by observation. Do not direct control etc. I actually wrote an email last night that said the following: "It is up to you to make the next step. I have already made the first step in not leaving right away. The heavy work at this point is on you." It is up to her to prove herself. I can take some time for that. I am the one that stayed true to myself and my beliefs.
whichwayisup Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 Yup and because of this: I am the one that stayed true to myself and my beliefs. You will be feeling more at peace. And you're right, she has alot of work to do to prove that she can be a better wife, let alone a better mother, a better family woman.
White Flower Posted November 14, 2007 Posted November 14, 2007 OTOH, she was cheating right under his nose all this time while living at home. Smurf can't watch her 24/7, and those who want to cheat WILL find a way. We can't control that because we can't control other people's choices. All we can do is decide if we'll extend our trust, or not. Guess you're right, LJ. Good point.
Author heftysmurf Posted November 15, 2007 Author Posted November 15, 2007 Back to not eating. My baby fat is gone. The thing that is killing ne right now is lack of remorse. Sorry does not cut it alone. She is making good steps but she has yet to sympathize with my pain and sorrow. Do WS always do this in the recovery opr am I expecting too much?
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