Does marriage drastically change people?

[Cobra_X30]

She issn't aware that she has changed so much. Not really although she does occassionally say, "I wasn't like this." But she is unhappy. It is plain for everyone to see. She hardly ever smiles anymore, seems always stressed and distressed, was on anti - depressants for a while, complains about not feeling fullfilled, often gets very aggressive. All in all, she's displaying a totally different personality and character. This is a person I have known all my life.

 

Ah, and don't get me wrong. Her husband is in many ways a nice guy. Just not right for her OR because she was such a free agent up until she was 36, she resents the loss of her freedom. Yes, this might be it. She will be the first to admit it, I think.

On a some level, she SEES the way that marriage has changed her and she doesn't like it. That's why she has become so defensive. Denial, I suppose.

 

I can't help thinking that if she were with someone she found more intellectually stimulating, then, she wouldn't feel so trapped in this marriage.

 

Sounds stressed!

 

Listen, she changed herself. She has ultimate control over her actions. Tell her to get a grip and start pushing for what she needs.

 

She may also need to re-adjust her expectations for her H. Accept him as he is and she will be 1/2 there.

 

What would she consider intellectually stimulating?

[marlena]

She may also need to re-adjust her expectations for her H. Accept him as he is and she will be 1/2 there.

 

 

You make a very legitimate point here. She never accepted him for who he is. Her first husband was very cerebral - read philosophy, literature, artistic, liberal politically - but narcississtic and sexually dysfunctional . Her new husband is a bit macho, never reads,has traditional values and limited goals. She too was very, very independent and had friends who were "intellectuals". I think she sees her husband as being mundane and mediocre. Thing is she too has become like this. Perhaps this is why she is so discontented with herself. That's what got me thinking and voila - this thread.

 

 

Personally, I think that these two are just not compatible. For some other woman, this man would be the ideal husband.

[sally4sara]

I know that who I was before I got married almost disappeared entirely after I got married. I don't know if my failed marriage is a good example to use though. He is an alcoholic and was coddled and enabled by his parents growing up. Of course resentment and reactionary behaviors changed who I was, it was an extremely turbulent marriage.

Before we got married, I was very charismatic and bold. I come from an artistic family and liked to draw and write. I noticed I quit drawing almost immediately. And because he always got fantastically drunk when we would go out, I would have to be the responsible one to balance his chaos and risk taking actions. By the end of the first year, I barely wrote anymore and what I did write seemed hollow. We were together 8 years. After we split, withing a month I was much more upbeat and began writing again like crazy!

But I do realize that these changes will happen even in a good relationship. I've been with my boyfriend for over three years; half of that has been cohabitational. While we have our moments, we are stable and affectionate, but right after we moved in together, the writing tapered off.

I think it has to do with how a single person calls the shots for themselves and a committed person has to run their wishes through another person's filter. It muffles you to varying degrees and that changes how you think and who you are.

[lindya]

Before we got married, I was very charismatic and bold. I come from an artistic family and liked to draw and write. I noticed I quit drawing almost immediately. And because he always got fantastically drunk when we would go out, I would have to be the responsible one to balance his chaos and risk taking actions. By the end of the first year, I barely wrote anymore and what I did write seemed hollow.

 

Interesting that you felt yourself being pressured into taking that adult or mothering role. I'm reminded here of some of the things Storyrider has said about finding it difficult to combine the domestic role with the creative one.

 

I've found the same things in relationships - ie that I'm suddenly in that position where I feel I should be the adult who has a linen cupboard full of crisp, nicely folded towels and blankets and who cooks proper, nutritious meals. Yet I don't think any guy has ever placed active pressure on me to be that kind of woman. It's just a sense of "I should act like a good girlfriend now...."

 

I think of who I was in the last relationship I was in, and honestly I don't recognise her at all. My values and boundaries were blurred - deliberately, so that I could accommodate other people. The guy I was with told me, at the end of the relationship, that I didn't stimulate him intellectually. I was outraged. I thought to myself "I have a high IQ, two degrees and I'm very well read and well travelled. How can I not be intellectually stimulating?"

 

It's only now that I realise losing your own identity in the quest to be as easy and pleasant as possible for another person to be around will have that effect. You talked about being charismatic and bold. I would say that those are qualities that are related to being quite egotistical (and I mean that in a good way). If, in a relationship, you find yourself getting swallowed up by the need to attend to someone else's ego, then I think it's evident how creativity could be affected. How your own personal charisma can be diminished as you focus your energies on making another person (your partner) look good.

[Pyro]

All I have to say is that there is no need to rush into marriage. Get to know the person before you decide to get married. Too many people are rushing in todays age.

[marlena]

I think it has to do with how a single person calls the shots for themselves and a committed person has to run their wishes through another person's filter. It muffles you to varying degrees and that changes how you think and who you are.

 

 

This is very insightful. Having to constantly put other people's needs above your own can induce massive changes in a person's personality. I suppose it is a coping strategy.

[marlena]

My values and boundaries were blurred - deliberately, so that I could accommodate other people

 

Yes, after my divorce, I started yoga. My mantra was , "I will find myself again". In our desire to make those we love happy, we often have to make changes to accomodate their wishes, all too often overlooking our own. I think this is where resentment, frustration and discontent start to take root. If you are with the right person, he will understand your need to hold onto your identity. In fact, he will encourage you to do so. Even better, he will inspire you to reach greater heights.

[marlena]

Always good advice Riddler. May I add something to this? Never marry someone you know is bad for you. Marriage will not fix the problems.

[Pyro]

Its cool.

 

The worst is when two people get married when the female finds out she is pregnant.

 

You are correct. Marriage will not make problems go away.

[marlena]

The worst is when two people get married when the female finds out she is pregnant

.

 

Bad, bad start!!! The man most of the time feels trapped and that is something he never forgets. In this day and age, there is no excuse for unwanted pregnancies IMO.

[sally4sara]

Interesting that you felt yourself being pressured into taking that adult or mothering role. I'm reminded here of some of the things Storyrider has said about finding it difficult to combine the domestic role with the creative one.

 

I've found the same things in relationships - ie that I'm suddenly in that position where I feel I should be the adult who has a linen cupboard full of crisp, nicely folded towels and blankets and who cooks proper, nutritious meals. Yet I don't think any guy has ever placed active pressure on me to be that kind of woman. It's just a sense of "I should act like a good girlfriend now...."

 

I think of who I was in the last relationship I was in, and honestly I don't recognise her at all. My values and boundaries were blurred - deliberately, so that I could accommodate other people. The guy I was with told me, at the end of the relationship, that I didn't stimulate him intellectually. I was outraged. I thought to myself "I have a high IQ, two degrees and I'm very well read and well travelled. How can I not be intellectually stimulating?"

 

It's only now that I realise losing your own identity in the quest to be as easy and pleasant as possible for another person to be around will have that effect. You talked about being charismatic and bold. I would say that those are qualities that are related to being quite egotistical (and I mean that in a good way). If, in a relationship, you find yourself getting swallowed up by the need to attend to someone else's ego, then I think it's evident how creativity could be affected. How your own personal charisma can be diminished as you focus your energies on making another person (your partner) look good.

 

Yes, exactly. It is a fact (sad?) that while being charismatic and bold makes you interesting, I would find that people would tell me they either admired me or were intimidated by me. It is easy to admire someone who has their own voice/identity, but it isn't easy to be in a relationship with them if they cannot listen to someone else's voice/identity. I agree with the OP that women feel more pressure to change this about themselves in a relationship. And now I have a child; that is a permanent change to my individuality. I can not longer throw myself into group projects and live out of a backpack till an exhibit is ready for it's opening or travel around with a spoken word troupe.

I will say though, that one of the things that also changed in me is that I have less turmoil in my life now than I did even before my marriage. Big ups are always balanced out with big downs. Even keel doesn't produce as much inspiration for me unfortunately, but even keel keeps me sane and compassionate. I just have to guard against choosing the needs of others over mine too often. Because when I start doing that I find myself avoiding the people I am trying to be there for. Thats when the resentment creeps in.

[Tony T]

Poeple change even when they are not married. The goal is to grow together, not apart.

 

I think many times people do marry the right person, but they fail to make it work due to unrealistic expectations, selfishness, and a complete lack of effort.

 

***BINGO!!!***

[Cobra_X30]

You make a very legitimate point here. She never accepted him for who he is. Her first husband was very cerebral - read philosophy, literature, artistic, liberal politically - but narcississtic and sexually dysfunctional . Her new husband is a bit macho, never reads,has traditional values and limited goals. She too was very, very independent and had friends who were "intellectuals". I think she sees her husband as being mundane and mediocre. Thing is she too has become like this. Perhaps this is why she is so discontented with herself. That's what got me thinking and voila - this thread.

 

Personally, I think that these two are just not compatible. For some other woman, this man would be the ideal husband.

 

I think your exactly correct on that. Your friend is generating her own problem here. I have a low tolerance for intellectual snobbery. I'm about as smart as they come, but I recognize that there are many different types of genius.

 

The one thing I would say she needs to get on the same page with is goals. They need to be working towards the same end! His goals need to be hers and hers his. That is very important for a couple!

[Woggle]

Well they do say people become more conservatives as they get older so maybe that is the case with your friend. Ann Coulter is single and she is one of the most miserable and nasty people I have seen. Your friends most likely knew how this guy was before she married him and she still did it so she has nobody to blame but herself. I also agree with the other poster about intellectual snobbery.

[GoodOnPaper]

I don't think people truly change that much after they are married. Instead, marriage forces you (slowly but surely) to confront what is lacking in your self-acceptance. Speaking from experience, this can create a great deal of emotional turmoil.

 

95% of all marriage problems can be traced directly to selfishness and usually on both sides of the partnership.

 

I'd argue that in many cases, people aren't selfish enough -- at least not in the proper sense. Accepting who we are, determining what needs we must have met, and setting boundaries that help us meet those needs are essential to do before one gets married. I think that, like myself, a lot of people discover this only after they have been married awhile.

 

I like this . . .

 

Yes, after my divorce, I started yoga. My mantra was , "I will find myself again". In our desire to make those we love happy, we often have to make changes to accomodate their wishes, all too often overlooking our own. I think this is where resentment, frustration and discontent start to take root. If you are with the right person, he will understand your need to hold onto your identity. In fact, he will encourage you to do so. Even better, he will inspire you to reach greater heights.

 

Making this kind of transformation while staying married seems like an impossible challenge, but if one can do it, it is certainly a change for the better.

[lindya]

I'd argue that in many cases, people aren't selfish enough -- at least not in the proper sense. Accepting who we are, determining what needs we must have met, and setting boundaries that help us meet those needs are essential to do before one gets married.

 

I agree completely. This is the reason that the "damn women....sense of entitlement....feminism" rants on this board annoy me. I couldn't give a damn if some guy I'm never going to meet thinks I'm a self-entitled, irritating bitch because I believe in feminism. What does irritate me is the sheer short-sightedness of such an attitude. The self-defeating nature of it.

 

If you take the view that a particular gender must be endlessly accommodating and fit into your narrow perspective of what men/women should be, then there's a strong chance that in the early stages of being needy for your approval/besotted by you, the other person will present themselves as falling neatly into that stringently defined category. I don't think people generally do that in a calculated way. I think it's just instinctive. Wanting to please someone you're in love with, and instinctively presenting yourself in a way that will please them. That will make them approve.

 

Sooner or later though, the inner feminist/masculinist/selfish being is going to assert itself - as it's perfectly entitled to. Expressing your needs and your own identity maturely takes a bit of practice, and if you've always avoided expressing them, then when they finally burst out those aspects of you might well look childish, petty and resentful.

 

I think the person who is full of theories about what they don't like and don't want in the opposite sex is almost bound to end up in that situation where an apparently malleable and docile partner eventually snaps...and reinforces the negative thinking person's destructive views about the opposite sex.

 

The ex I mentioned earlier would describe himself as a strong supporter of feminism....but on some level, I knew that much as he expressed admiration for feminism, he actually found women intensely irritating. My biggest plus, for him, was that I didn't irritate him. Or if I did, at least not as much as so many other people (who just happened to be women) seemed to. Worse than that, at the time I did actually regard this as a compliment. I wonder how many people fall into that trap of spending so much time avoiding being the things a partner hates that they lose sight of all the positive things they can be, rather than the negative things they mustn't be.

[MotoMan]

Marriage is definitely a growing experience, it's just you don't necessarily know which direction it will go until you get into it for a while. I made some poor choices regarding my first marriage, both in the person I selected, and in my ignorance, trying to be a pleaser. I grew resentful because it was never enough, and eventually got a D, because I changed. She was the same kind of woman at the end as she was in the beginning, and I respect that. She got the short end of the stick in some respects because she married a fairly passive man and divorced a more assertive one who tired of the conflict.

 

D & C and woggle have great posts, I think they've hit the nail on the head!

[MissMaris]

I am not able to read through all these posts, but I often wonder myself, whether I would ever want a long-term partner (sharing the same household) ever again.

 

People say, 'choose the right person' and then you'll be happy....but you can choose a wonderful person and they can change, whether it be due to life circumstances, financial, mental or physical health....time and life do change people. With change, come alterations in your relationships.

 

The last man I was with, things lasted seven years. We dated close to a year before we talked about a long-term committment. The first two years we lived together, I think things were pretty good, albeit with some ups and downs as with any relationship. However, we always seemed able to talk things through.

 

Fast forward a few more years -- he plunged into a deep, dark depression after a business failure and the loss of a good friend to suicide. Nothing I said would make him go to get help. He became angry and isolated. He never spent time with me anymore. Everything I said seemed wrong, seemed stupid. We still had sex but it felt empty and strange. We never went anywhere, we never had friends over. We stopped talking. I begged and pleaded for him to seek therapy but to no avail.

After two years of 'walking on eggshells' and feeling like a shell of my former self, we agreed to split up.

 

I found out later that our split up was so devastating to him that it forced him to seek therapy.

 

However, the damage had been done. Too many harsh and cruel words, too many doors slammed in my face, too many holidays and birthdays ruined, too many weekends spent alone and sad....

 

I was ready to live my own life.

 

I think in marriage, people sometimes forget it's about working TOGETHER on problems, not shutting out the other person or taking your anger out on them.

Love, like it or not, IS conditional. It requires the proper environment and nourishment to grow and thrive. It is a living thing that can either grow or die.