OpenBook Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 You know, it just floors me whenever an OW is grilled about why she's posting a thread, in a forum that is dedicated to the OM/OW situation.
nadiaj2727 Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 Gwenyth wrote: I CHOSE to post here because at first I did want to know How to get myself out of this affair. I guess I finally admitted to myself, and others, that I do want to be a part of this affair and do not care about the wife. I have a right as a human being to post on here and I also have a right, as a Human Being, to finally admit to myself, and others, that I am proud to have this guy in my life. Gwenyth, I'm not going to yell at you for posting here, nor am I trying to judge you. I just don't think you should be proud to have this guy in your life, because he is obviously not proud to have you in your life. I am trying to think about YOU, as the OW posting in this OW forum, so I'm not saying whether or not you or anyone else should care about his W, or cheating, or As in general, etc. I'm just saying that if we just focus on you, you shouldn't be proud to be with a man who can't/ won't tell anyone about your existence, take you out in public, call you his one and only, etc. Why settle for less? You deserve so much better. I know this is the early stages and you are feeling butterflies and happy thoughts. But soon you will start to get angry (at him, hopefully, instead of his W) and say, "Why does he string me along like this? Why does he say all of these bad things about his W and yet he is with her, not me? If he's a real man, wouldn't he be strong and decisive enough to do what he thinks is best and leave the situation? Why does he even talk to me and get my feelings so wrapped up in his when we can't really be together?" I know you're not thinking this now, I've been through this all, it sucks. This is the only good part -- in the beginning when you feel you've found your "soulmate" and you don't care what the world thinks because it makes you feel so good and you and him were meant to be. I say run away from him while you're in the good-feeling stage, because soon it will start to feel so crappy and you will wish you would have gotten out while you were ahead (when you're not wishing you never would have gotten involved with the jerk in the first place). Please believe me, I speak from my very own experience and I just want you realize that it happens. Good luck Gwenyth I feel for you.
Author Gwyneth Posted November 5, 2007 Author Posted November 5, 2007 You know, it just floors me whenever an OW is grilled about why she's posting a thread, in a forum that is dedicated to the OM/OW situation. For real. Nadia, He and I go public all the time and are affectionate. His coworkers and friends know about me, and I think his brother and / or mom does too. He has also held many phone conversations with me while her son is home. He isn't very discrete...
nadiaj2727 Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 He and I go public all the time and are affectionate. His coworkers and friends know about me, and I think his brother and / or mom does too. He has also held many phone conversations with me while her son is home. He isn't very discrete... That's baffling to me! I guess he's ready to be caught by her. Why not just tell her he is seeing someone else? Wouldn't that be an easier and gentler way to do it than this passive/aggressive way of telling her he wants to stay in the M but then letting her find out he's with someone else?
Author Gwyneth Posted November 5, 2007 Author Posted November 5, 2007 He and I go public all the time and are affectionate. His coworkers and friends know about me, and I think his brother and / or mom does too. He has also held many phone conversations with me while her son is home. He isn't very discrete... That's baffling to me! I guess he's ready to be caught by her. Why not just tell her he is seeing someone else? Wouldn't that be an easier and gentler way to do it than this passive/aggressive way of telling her he wants to stay in the M but then letting her find out he's with someone else? Thank you! I finally found someone on here that is asking the Same question I have been asking. When she First confronted him about the text msg's, he lied to her--naturally, but he kept on texting me. I reminded him Every day that his wife already was upset about 18 text msgs, and by the end of the montly billing cycle, we were at 1000 texts. I told him he Must want to get caught because he keeps doing it. He insists no, but he's clearly in denial about many things in his life (all things actually). Then she caught him emailing me and she demanded his email password. He then went and created another email account that she doesn't know about--again, sneaking behind her back clearly looking to get caught. Although he has tremendously cut back on the emailing me, which is fine because we both do not want to get caught like this. Then she again saw my phone number and found out that I am the one he texts and of course, he lies, so she calls me but breathes in my ear instead of speaking, so she then changes his phone number, and he hasn't shared that number with me, but will call me from friend's phones, pay phones, or email me from mobile web. So he Always finds ways to sneak around behind her back. He's like a little kid--and I love it, and I do not know why. I think it's because he is taking all these risks to keep me in his life. It's flattering I must say, but he is being stupid about the way he is going about this. He should, instead of lying to her, come clean, He probably figures that if he comes clean, she will either kick him to the curb, or he will have to end the affair with me and maybe he just doesn't want to end it (he has told me he doesn't, so there you go).
LucreziaBorgia Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 I don't imagine that he feels he is taking any risks, nor is he afraid of getting caught. People who have affairs live in this bubble of denial that is strengthened by a large amount of gaslighting. The more that the WS can get the BS to believe, the stronger the skin of that bubble is. The more he thinks he can get away with, the more 'open' he will appear. His behavior will appear to be reckless, but in his mind it isn't because he hasn't suffered any negative effects from his affair. He thinks he has everyone fooled, but trust me on this one: don't make any assumptions about what this means in terms of your future. When discovery comes in increments, he will simply just lie more and gaslight harder. His W is sure that there is someone, but I have very little doubt that what he told her is that you are a "friend who is going through a hard time, and needs me to be there for her" - thus, explaining away the amount of text and talking he does to you. His mean old W wouldn't want him abandoning a poor innocent heartbroken girl in need of a friend, would she? He lies - to protect his affair, and to protect his marriage. When it comes down to either/or, don't get your hopes up that he will choose you. If he were going to choose you, he wouldn't be breaking his ass to gaslight and lie to his wife in order to keep his marriage. So... the W knows there is someone. She doesn't know the true nature of what you are. She is trying to figure that out. If you think she is this proactive over someone that her husband has gaslighted into thinking is a "friend" imagine what will happen when she begins to see through that smokescreen he put up. You say you want her to kick him to the curb. Now, if she does kick him to the curb - and she may well do that, will you be happy with a guy who wanted to stay married, but ended up with you because his wife threw him out and he had no one else?
Author Gwyneth Posted November 5, 2007 Author Posted November 5, 2007 I don't want him, nor have I ever said I want him to leave his wife for me. What I did say is that she should kick him to the curb if she doesn't trust him because this has been going on for a long time now, and they are married hardly two years. So their whole marriage is based on lies and deception--that is why I think, woman to woman, she should get rid of him before they end up with a child. Then things get messy. Right now they have no children together which would make for an easier, less messy divorce. I can't even imagine Why I have to defend myself on a forum labled "OW/OM."
LucreziaBorgia Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 1. So their whole marriage is based on lies and deception--that is why I think, woman to woman, she should get rid of him before they end up with a child. 2. I can't even imagine Why I have to defend myself on a forum labled "OW/OM." 1. Just sub in 'affair' for 'marriage' in that sentence. I've seen more than a few people ask the same of the OW as well. 2. Because anyone can post here. OW, former OW like myself, BS, WS - you name it. You have to admit though - the various points of view that you get probably get you to see your situation from more angles than you would have gotten if you went to an OW board that is restricted only to OW.
frannie Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 ... will call me from friend's phones, pay phones, or email me from mobile web. So he Always finds ways to sneak around behind her back. He's like a little kid--and I love it, and I do not know why. I think it's because he is taking all these risks to keep me in his life. It's flattering I must say, but he is being stupid about the way he is going about this. He should, instead of lying to her, come clean... Well he probably won't come clean because he seems to be enjoying being passive-aggressive and hurting her. And you love it too... which is somewhat unsettling. I mean, why would you enjoy the fact that he does this..? Have you given it any thought, because it's not something that comes up a lot on this forum.
norajane Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 Well he probably won't come clean because he seems to be enjoying being passive-aggressive and hurting her. And you love it too... which is somewhat unsettling. I mean, why would you enjoy the fact that he does this..? Have you given it any thought, because it's not something that comes up a lot on this forum. It kinda does come up. Like that whole thread about MM's calling the OW's from the public restroom...a lot of OW got a kick out of/were flattered by the MM sneaking around behind his W's back just to call them.
Author Gwyneth Posted November 5, 2007 Author Posted November 5, 2007 1. Just sub in 'affair' for 'marriage' in that sentence. I've seen more than a few people ask the same of the OW as well. 2. Because anyone can post here. OW, former OW like myself, BS, WS - you name it. You have to admit though - the various points of view that you get probably get you to see your situation from more angles than you would have gotten if you went to an OW board that is restricted only to OW. I certainly have seen more angles than I thought I would. A good friend of mine was in a similiar situation, only she was the wife and her husband cheated on her. They divorced and he married the OW. Well now he has fallen back in love with my friend and she is now the OW--very Young and Restlessish. Anyway, she told me Not to worry about his wife, because there's a reason married men cheat, and it's a two-way road. There is something dysfunctional in their marriage that cannot be fixed, just as it was in hers, only now she and her ex husband have finally grown up enough to realize what the problem was, and are trying to work it out.
frannie Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 It kinda does come up. Like that whole thread about MM's calling the OW's from the public restroom...a lot of OW got a kick out of/were flattered by the MM sneaking around behind his W's back just to call them. I'm not entirely sure but I think only liddie (and perhaps White Flower) said they would be/have been flattered by that kind of call. The rest of the posters on the thread were more or less grossed out by it. Certainly not 'a lot' of OW. But, to clarify, I meant there seems to me to be more to Gwyneth's enjoyment of her MM calling her... not that he made the effort to call (from anywhere), but that he out and out lies, deceives, finds fun in doing it to his W. So, I was asking why Gwyneth seems to get such a kick out of that: hurting/deceiving the W, not just MM making an effort to keep in touch. Not sure if that's the case, Gwyneth, just asking if it is, and what you think that's down to..?
norajane Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 But, to clarify, I meant there seems to me to be more to Gwyneth's enjoyment of her MM calling her... not that he made the effort to call (from anywhere), but that he out and out lies, deceives, finds fun in doing it to his W. So, I was asking why Gwyneth seems to get such a kick out of that: hurting/deceiving the W, not just MM making an effort to keep in touch. I see, and yes, that's different. As she said, he's like a child - pushing the envelope again and again to see how much he can get away with before "mom" finds out and punishes him. And Gwyneth gets a kick out of being his partner in crime, putting one over on mom/wife. Arrested development, stuck in rebellious teenager mode...I could be wrong, but that's my read on it.
EnigmaXOXO Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 I don't want him Than why are you still with him? she should kick him to the curb if she doesn't trust him because this has been going on for a long time now, and they are married hardly two years. Do YOU trust him? ... and remember, you are already privy to the knowledge that this man plays less than honest in his relationships while the Mrs. hasn’t been let in on her husband’s double-dipping yet. Besides, you’ve invested even less than two years, aren’t even tangled up in a marriage like she is ... and you can’t seem to kick him to the curb, either. Even though you don’t want him. So their whole marriage is based on lies and deception And so is your relationship with him. As a matter of fact, neither the marriage OR the affair would exist without the lies and deception he keeps them patched together with. that is why I think, woman to woman, she should get rid of him before they end up with a child. And women to women, I think you should show the courage and dignity you expect from someone else by following your own advice. I know it’s hard for you to realize it, caught up in the fog as you are ... but you’re really no different than the woman who’s married to this con artist. Except you’re a bit more gullible than she is, in that you willingly accept a relationship with a man you must share with someone else. You don’t even have the luxury of being lied to in that respect. At least the Mrs. does what she does because she doesn’t know any better...yet. I understand that things seem so much clearer when you’re viewing a situation from the outside in. Shoot, even folks who are in the same pickle as you can see your situation so clearly while not being able to apply the same logic and clarity to their own. It’s almost satirical in a sad sort of way. Just how it goes, I suppose. But I sure wish there was a way to shake some of you ladies awake so you could finally smell what those married men have been shoveling.
Author Gwyneth Posted November 5, 2007 Author Posted November 5, 2007 Why would it make for an easier, less messy divorce. Are their vows less valid? Are their commitments less real? Are feelings less involved? Is the pain going to last a shorter period of time? I guess I'm really slow, because I need that explained to me. I can't believe I have to explain why a divorce would be messier with children involved. HEllo! Have you never experienced or seen a friend experience a divorce whether it be their parents, or with their own children? It's horrible. When there are children involved, it's just harder. Who gets the kids--when does the other parent get to see the kids--how it affects the kids--broken homes affect kids tremendously, and while spouses move on, children have a harder time because these are their parents. I'm a product of this so I know, and I went through it two times with parents. You never hear people say "thank god they didn't have children?" children are just so precious and innocent--and that is why I have said many times that if he had a child with her, I would not be doing this with him because to me, children is what Really holds the family together. They're just so sacred and like I said, innocent. I just could not imagine taking on an affair with a married man with a child/children, because it's one thing when you do it to the wife, but a completely and utterly disgusting thing when you do it to the children.
White Flower Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 Frannie wrote> I'm not entirely sure but I think only liddie (and perhaps White Flower) said they would be/have been flattered by that kind of call. The rest of the posters on the thread were more or less grossed out by it. Certainly not 'a lot' of OW. I never said I was flattered by getting a call from a public bathroom:sick:. I started the thread in hopes of getting men in general to say whether they noticed men on cell phones in public restrooms and whether they speculated these men were talking to women other than their spouses. Since my MM does it often, I wondered how obvious he was to other men, if at all. It does embarass me; however, I understand why he does it: his W is always with him and it would be too risky to call from more suitable places. I do give him a hard time about it, but since I'll be ending it soon I put up with it. But I did laugh at some of the funny stories on that thread. Embarassing moments can be funny.
whichwayisup Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 Doesn't his wife have a son from a previous marriage? And isn't her husband the stepfather to her child? Sure, they may not created a child together, but they do share a child, even if it isn't his. Another thing, since you don't want him, (your words, not mine) you are completely out of line when it comes to HIS marriage and HIS life. I certainly hope you don't voice your opinions to him like you do here.
Author Gwyneth Posted November 5, 2007 Author Posted November 5, 2007 WhiteFlower, I think people on this board really read and see what they want to read and see--not the facts behind the posts. I got your post the first time I read it. Maybe you and I should start our own forum called The Other Woman--oh wait, that's this thread! Silly me to talk openly about my affair with a MM on a OW/OM forum.
White Flower Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 I don't want him, nor have I ever said I want him to leave his wife for me. What I did say is that she should kick him to the curb if she doesn't trust him because this has been going on for a long time now, and they are married hardly two years. So their whole marriage is based on lies and deception--that is why I think, woman to woman, she should get rid of him before they end up with a child. Then things get messy. Right now they have no children together which would make for an easier, less messy divorce. I can't even imagine Why I have to defend myself on a forum labled "OW/OM." Well, Gwyneth, all people have to defend their POVs in any forum because that is what a forum is for. A forum is like a diamond; it is round, has many facets, and often sparkles. There are flaws, too. And if we can purge the flaws, the diamond sparkles more brilliantly. That is why we come here. I know I know I come here for clarity and that is why I embrace comments from all posters because I want to shine more brilliantly:) This place is all about improvement. We want better lives and we want to make a better world. You don't have to answer this, but is it that maybe you do want MM to leave his wife for you? Afterall, he's only been married for 2 years, only knew her for 4 months prior to the M, and is in love with you. Plus they have no kids together...yet. It would be far easier for him to get out than most of our MM. Perhaps you are really angry with HIM and not so much her? I feel for you because you have more of a chance than we do at getting your MM to yourself, yet he has shown you no chance of that as of yet.
White Flower Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 WhiteFlower, I think people on this board really read and see what they want to read and see--not the facts behind the posts. I got your post the first time I read it. Maybe you and I should start our own forum called The Other Woman--oh wait, that's this thread! Silly me to talk openly about my affair with a MM on a OW/OM forum. LOL! I don't want to start any wars here, but I do love the sound of your sarcastic voice in that one. I think you're right in that original questions and statements get blurred because it really does get tedious reading through every single post. I know Norajane and Frannie will go back, read it, and say, "Oh yeah! That is what she meant!" But I don't really get upset about it, I just correct them or try to clarify myself better the second time around. Again, these forums are about improving our lives and that includes reading black and white and between the lines. Don't let it get to you. These people are trying to get you to see ALL the different aspects so that you see the bigger picture more clearly. They spend an awful lot of time trying to help you and they do it because they care. Sure, some of them get off on being bitchy, but for the most part they are just trying to show you what you might not be able to see.
whichwayisup Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 These people are trying to get you to see ALL the different aspects so that you see the bigger picture more clearly. They spend an awful lot of time trying to help you and they do it because they care. Sure, some of them get off on being bitchy, but for the most part they are just trying to show you what you might not be able to see. This is true and if we didn't care, we wouldn't be replying. All I ask is, keep an open mind and maybe do some serious thinking about what it is you want here. Don't make this man the center of your life, the ONLY thing in your life. Don't forget your friends, family and other fun things in life.
Author Gwyneth Posted November 6, 2007 Author Posted November 6, 2007 Well, Gwyneth, all people have to defend their POVs in any forum because that is what a forum is for. A forum is like a diamond; it is round, has many facets, and often sparkles. There are flaws, too. And if we can purge the flaws, the diamond sparkles more brilliantly. That is why we come here. I know I know I come here for clarity and that is why I embrace comments from all posters because I want to shine more brilliantly:) This place is all about improvement. We want better lives and we want to make a better world. You don't have to answer this, but is it that maybe you do want MM to leave his wife for you? Afterall, he's only been married for 2 years, only knew her for 4 months prior to the M, and is in love with you. Plus they have no kids together...yet. It would be far easier for him to get out than most of our MM. Perhaps you are really angry with HIM and not so much her? I feel for you because you have more of a chance than we do at getting your MM to yourself, yet he has shown you no chance of that as of yet. I am angry with him because he complains about his marriage, yet isn't trying to make it better or leaving the marriage. Instead, he indulges in an affair--yes, with me. I'm totally cool about this as long as neither of us become hurt by the affair. Who said he's in love with me?
Author Gwyneth Posted November 6, 2007 Author Posted November 6, 2007 Doesn't his wife have a son from a previous marriage? And isn't her husband the stepfather to her child? Sure, they may not created a child together, but they do share a child, even if it isn't his. Another thing, since you don't want him, (your words, not mine) you are completely out of line when it comes to HIS marriage and HIS life. I certainly hope you don't voice your opinions to him like you do here. Nope, I do not. In fact, I never try to have conversations with him about her, unless its about how she called me, or a pat on the back when he whines to me about his wife and marriage, and how much of a mess this is. Yes, she has a child, but he has a father of his own. No parent could Ever be replaced. Well sometimes, but in this case, no. I think he and this child are more of friends than father/son. He doesn't call this guy Dad or anything.
frannie Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 Frannie wrote> I'm not entirely sure but I think only liddie (and perhaps White Flower) said they would be/have been flattered by that kind of call. The rest of the posters on the thread were more or less grossed out by it. Certainly not 'a lot' of OW. I never said I was flattered by getting a call from a public bathroom:sick:. I started the thread in hopes of getting men in general to say whether they noticed men on cell phones in public restrooms and whether they speculated these men were talking to women other than their spouses. Since my MM does it often, I wondered how obvious he was to other men, if at all. It does embarass me; however, I understand why he does it: his W is always with him and it would be too risky to call from more suitable places. I do give him a hard time about it, but since I'll be ending it soon I put up with it. But I did laugh at some of the funny stories on that thread. Embarassing moments can be funny. Yes, I wasn't sure whether you meant you thought it was funny or didn't like the fact he did it. You seemed to come down on the positive, but I wasn't sure, which is why I put your name in brackets and said perhaps. You said you liked it that he called you often, mentioned that his W was frustrated with it, and commented that you thought it was funny that she had to come looking for him in the bathroom one day. But you didn't say why you thought it was funny. And that was the point I was making in my first post, and that norajane picked me up on. I said that I didn't think a lot of OW actually said they enjoyed the fact that the W got annoyed. That included you.
stillafool Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 He and I go public all the time and are affectionate. His coworkers and friends know about me, and I think his brother and / or mom does too. He has also held many phone conversations with me while her son is home. He isn't very discrete... Nor is he a respectful person either. Gwen if I were you I would be leary of a man who shows no respect to anyone. If he does leave his W he may want to move in with you since you make a lot of money. I would watch my purse strings if I were you. There's no telling what this guy is capable of.
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