She left me for the Ex-con father of her child.

[FindingMyselfAgain]

Life has taken some very strange and somewhat difficult turns. Karen has left me for her baby's daddy, Ray. Ray doesn't look like much of a winner, but that's none of my business.

 

I am an alcoholic in recovery, but Karen and I have had numerous rounds with my relapsing over the last year and a half. I had managed a three-month stretch in which she was seeing a completely new, much more spiritual, me. She was really viewing me as marriage material. We are both in our 40's.

 

Karen has gone from a spiritual, not religious person to a complete Bible thumper in the last 18 months. This guy Ray, who has two prior prison bits, three felonies, and was in jail in July and August for violation of an order of protection - domestic violence (with his MOTHER) started writing her from jail.

 

So he gets out, and he's trying to come see the daughter. He wants to stay in her house for two weeks. He lives in Tallahassee and Karen and I live apart, but in Atlanta. I'm not very happy about this whole arrangement.

 

But somewhere along the way, I begin to question if Karen is really who I want: Judgemental, controlling, and kinda walks all over me because I'm always begging to get her back after a relapse. When I sober up, I begin to question things.

 

So, two days after I question things, there I am, drinking again. Karen had been talking to Ray for about 2-3 weeks prior to my relapse on September 31. The conversations were getting to be nightly, and they began to bother me. They bothered me due to the frequency. and also because she was quoting Ray far too often. He was becoming her Christian/Biblical 'Guru', and she seems to sleep with and date her 'Gurus'. One time I interrupted their discussion and she was breathless in awe of him. That was a far cry from the old Ray she had the image of -- now Ray was a Spiritual Leader.

 

Yet, she continued to assure me that all was well: "I'll probably be your girlfriend again", "Don't you trust me?", and "We're merely brothers and sisters in Christ" were the orders of the day. When I saw him try to move in on her prior to the relapse, she expressed angst and reservation: "I wish I had a spine", and "I don't want him up here for two weeks", but now in hindsight it looks like the angst and reservation of the mid-infatuation stage.

 

He reformatted his stay to be a two-week one, starting October the 17th when he would get into town. The few days prior to that, Karen became increasingly distant: The "Honey/Sweetheart/Baby" talk gave way to "Lar", and it was evident in her mood and her speech that Ray was becoming her Guru.

 

The day before he was to arrive, I took her out to the Hard Rock Cafe, and she was soooooo disconnected she could barely even look at me. She was very uncomfortable, and when I called her on it, she claimed it was due to my jealousy the night before. In reality and in retrospect, it was because Ray and her were getting romantic on the phone. Like a COMPLETE IDIOT, I handed her $150 "to help her". I ended up paying for Ray's grocery tab when he was to stay.

 

The night she picked him up, she was almost 100% disconnected from me, and the next day, I sent her flowers. She objected because "Ray might get jealous", which FLIPPED ME OUT. She claimed she needed to go to the office and help out her old business, which was a direct lie, of course -- THERE IS NO OFFICE TO GO TO. But I was so in an uproar that this did not occur to me at the time. She also lied about eating lunch with Ray: I had begun war-dialing between 2 and 3 and she finally returned the call, telling me to chill and that she and Ray were eating lunch, but heard the phone. Another lie: When people are eating lunch and do not wish to be disturbed, they pick up the phone and say "Call ya later." When they are making love, however, they might not have the time.

 

I saw her that night and she admitted that she was interested in getting back with Ray. She admitted kissing him, passionately, and that he was interested in her. She said neither of them were moving to the other's state. I leveled with her that I was her doormat, and she replied "Then stop laying down in front of me and letting me step all over you! Be a man!" Good point. Additionally, I let her know that I had sold my soul to be with her. She STILL was stringing me along, telling me such bull**** as "She hadn't decided" and "Don't put finality on this". Nonsense, of course; but she is as guity of manipulation as I am. She has kept me around because she, too, is sick.

 

I told her I would still give her $500 on the next check, and that practically put her in tears. She asked me to ask God, and told me, "Please, get some self-respect". Good advice. She will not get the money. It would go to support Ray anyways.

 

I asked for a final kiss and she finally relented, but it was weird, not the nice kisses we used to have -- just a thrust tongue in my mouth. Kinda nasty, actually.

 

I got a chance to meet Ray. His eyes are tombstones. He is totally spiritually disconnected. In that instant, I sized him up as a career criminal, spiritually dead. Karen is in for a WORLD of ****. It's obvious to me that he is playing Karen by getting to her weak spot -- religion -- with all his prison training in the Bible.

 

She is codependent in the extreme, lying to me often during the 'relationship', manipulating me, and even using me at the end. Who knows, she may have used me in the middle and the beginning.

 

So now I get to look back on the relationship with my blinders off: I was soooo needy, that the following dynamic was in play:

• I was co-dependent throughout this experience. On my side, I've NEEDED her. When we were first together, that codependent NEED was the primary driving force for both of us.
  
• On my side, because my initial actions (the first few relapses) caused us to get into a pattern of breakups, I needed to come back groveling and begging for her to give me a chance. This set me up to be a doormat, and to sell my soul just to get her back.
  
• I developed deep resentments at seeing myself become a doormat and at selling my soul. The resentments grew and grew. I also developed resentments at feeling controlled, and feeling judged. I developed resentments when our wonderful, passionate physical relationship was stopped. I developed resentments over her rejection of the 12 step program.
  
• These resentments got into my subconscious, and because I WAS acting as a doormat, I dared not mention any of them. But they made me question whether or not I truly wanted to be in the relationship. As I got clean time (2 months here, 3 months there) I began to get scared that I didn't want to live as a doormat, being judged and controlled, for the rest of my life.
  
• But, I NEEDED her, so I could not either risk losing her by talking from the heart about these things, nor could I leave the relationship. Therefore, I would act out in the only way I knew to gain distance again, the only way that my subconscious would allow me to address this. I'd go use.

There was no way for this to work in the current dynamic. I was too addicted to 'any available woman'. Also, she was too addicted to 'any available man', borne out by her moving on to Ray -- a convicted felon who's last charge was violating an order of protection against his MOTHER.

Two sickies don't make a well, but maybe this might work out after all. Who knows. Maybe Ray is for real. Maybe this is the perfect man for her.

 

But I have this sick feeling that I want to stay around and be available for her WHEN it fails.

[blind_otter]

But I have this sick feeling that I want to stay around and be available for her WHEN it fails.

 

Why on earth would you subject yourself to this? Get thee to an AA meeting, ASAP.

[FindingMyselfAgain]

I am definitely deep into the Program of Recovery again, but I cannot stop obsessing about this woman. I have enough self-awareness to know that it was more obsession and addiction to her, than love -- but there was still some love there. I haven't had all that many relationships in my life (too busy drinking) so this one seems huge.

 

I'm doing meetings all the time. What I'm looking for here, is perspective on this relationship.

 

BTW: They are engaged after only 30 days on the phone and 6 in person. If I can figure out that she's utterly insane, it will help me realize that I haven't lost much -- and it becomes easier to move on.

[blind_otter]

No, it helps you continue to focus on HER rather than YOU.

[FindingMyselfAgain]

Well, Blind Otter, DO cut a fella a break... I'm only one week into the breakup! It takes a little more time than THAT to process through what appeared to be the love of your life!

[blind_otter]

I'm not cutting you a break because you're not cutting yourself a break. HAve you been talking about your addiction to this woman at your meetings?

[FindingMyselfAgain]

Yes. To my sponsor who (surprise surprise) tells me the answers to all this lie in the Steps.

 

He also advises me that this is an especially broken woman (I've told him some things that I haven't shared here), and while he apologized for taking her inventory, he did mention that the only reason he did that is because she's TOXIC to me. He wants me to understand that if we get back together, now or in the forseeable future, I will definitely drink and die.

 

He's been careful to allow only so much talking about her (but some is allowed), keeping the focus on where I am broken.

[blind_otter]

Sounds like he's got the right idea, dude.

 

What are you looking for from the loveshack? Are you seeking validation for your desire to stay available for someone who is so obviously toxic to you?

[FindingMyselfAgain]

No, otterman, I'm probably seeking confirmation that she's as sick as me, that she's toxic to me, and to move on and recover.

 

She's got so many wonderful qualities, and she's so very pretty, but I suspect -- and experience has borne out -- that right now, we are deadly together.

 

I maintain a faint hope, albiet against all odds, that someday there may be a reuniting. Even after she got engaged to him, she texted me "This hurts". I texted back, "What hurts?" She called, ringing once and hanging up. I called back. We had a 45 minute conversation in which she told me she still loves me, that there is a very special bond between us, but she must pursue Ray. My addiction to her, of course, kicked in, and I began weaving elaborate fantasies of improbable futures. She wanted to know we had a way to communicate -- we do, our emails on a free account service will never change -- and she kept stressing that I am a WONDERFUL man; that she loves me.

 

Weird, that. Sounded, in retrospect, like severe codependency and that I was a backup plan. Sounded like she didn't get enough of her Ray Fix that day so she came to get affirmation from me.

 

But she never considered that such a call would merely reopen these wounds. She never once thought about how this might affect me and prevent me from moving on.

[blind_otter]

No contact is your friend.

 

Sounds like you have a lot of insight and self awareness. Keep it up and stay strong, dude.

[FindingMyselfAgain]

No contact is beyond difficult. It's the same wild-gripping-maniacal obsession that the yearning for my first drink is when I am newly sober.

 

I'm occasionally failing, but we still have items to exchange. I'm keeping the contacts professional.

 

OTOH, a girl named Allison who has had a crush on me for the entire 18 months I was with Karen, broke into a huge grin and gave me a huge, warm hug when I mentioned Karen and I were through.

 

Allison makes Karen look like chopped liver. Allison is very sweet. She seems sexually broken, though -- possibly a result of molestation? I don't know. I sense problems there.

 

BUT: Be aware: I *WILL* *NOT* inflict my presently-broken spirit on another human female at this point in time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[booboolove]

Hey, while I may not be the perfect person to give advice, I recently came across a concept that I will be attempting soon. Start a dialog with her, but keep it to yourself and write it down. Say everything that you want and imagine her response, then write that down as well. When you are finished, read it but do not give it to her. It's a great way to get out what's in your head and stand back and take a look at what goes on in there.

 

If you can, start off your writing by asking yourself what you really want, whether it's this minute, tomorrow or for the rest of your life. Help yourself first, then work on this relationship.

 

You may find that once you discover who you really want to be, she may not be the person that compliments you best. Or, maybe she is.

 

Maybe ask yourself if you would be able to forgive her for leaving you and marrying someone else? (Then tell me what your answer is, haha!)

 

I applaud your decision to wait to start a new relationship. Finish your steps first, reevaluate your life from that place, and then move forward.

 

In my humble opionion, based on what you've written, Karen is not insane, but lost. Seeking something to give her life meaning in a very desperate way. I have come to my own realization that the meaning of life is to learn to be as divine as possible. To be aware that my energies can either help or diminish others. To learn that others do not affect me, I only affect myself. While I am a loooooong way from such an inspired life, I keep my attention on it and strive for it each day. Some days are better that others.

 

I wanted to let you know that, I too, struggled with addiction many years ago. In many ways, I still do. I does get easier. I promise. Just stay clean and find friends that encourage you to do so. The old urges will come up, but once you are able to establish a better life for yourself, you understand how your addiction could destroy it and continue to choose your new life each time.

[FindingMyselfAgain]

Hey, while I may not be the perfect person to give advice, I recently came across a concept that I will be attempting soon. Start a dialog with her, but keep it to yourself and write it down. Say everything that you want and imagine her response, then write that down as well. When you are finished, read it but do not give it to her. It's a great way to get out what's in your head and stand back and take a look at what goes on in there.

 

Boo, are you on myspace? I am. If you are, I blog EVERY DAY and put down everything on there that's going through my squirrelly head.

 

If you are on there, we should 'become friends' and I will set all the entries from private-no-views to friends-can-view then you can follow this, offer thoughts, etc.

 

Boy. From me cussin' you out, to offering friendship. Not bad for this 12stepper.

 

If you can, start off your writing by asking yourself what you really want, whether it's this minute, tomorrow or for the rest of your life. Help yourself first, then work on this relationship.

Well, I do need to help myself, but there is no relationship to work on. She's boffing the new (old) guy, they are getting married, and -- later I discover -- he's got a history of domestic violence, and Karen's in the paperwork. She knows what he is.

 

You may find that once you discover who you really want to be, she may not be the person that compliments you best. Or, maybe she is. Maybe ask yourself if you would be able to forgive her for leaving you and marrying someone else? (Then tell me what your answer is, haha!)

 

In reality:

1) That she left me inside of 40 days for this guy tells me she has always loved him, no matter how long he's been gone.

2) She loved me a little, but not enough.

3) She has no common sense.

4) By contacting me after the decision was rendered -- often -- it tells me that she's thinking only of herself and not of my healing. She doesn't truly care about me.

5) She promised no matter what we'd always be friends. Bulls**t there too.

6) I remember all the things I did for her. I'm hard-pressed to remember anything she's done for me. It was a rather one-sided 'relationship'.

 

In sum total, I would say this woman is a wreckingball to my life.

 

And yet, I'd take her back tomorrow.

 

I'm addicted to her.

 

I applaud your decision to wait to start a new relationship. Finish your steps first, reevaluate your life from that place, and then move forward.

I'm faltering on that a little. There are a few women I am interested in getting close to. I do need to get a Friend with Benefits or two tho -- FOR REAL!

 

In my humble opionion, based on what you've written, Karen is not insane, but lost. Seeking something to give her life meaning in a very desperate way. I have come to my own realization that the meaning of life is to learn to be as divine as possible. To be aware that my energies can either help or diminish others. To learn that others do not affect me, I only affect myself. While I am a loooooong way from such an inspired life, I keep my attention on it and strive for it each day. Some days are better that others.

She's not insane, perhaps. But she's not sensible. She's very weak and easily swayed. I know -- I used to sway her. Someone with a good line of crap came along and snatched her away.

 

She's losing a geniunely good, caring and loving man. When I am gone -- and I'm not quite gone yet -- I will be GONE. There will be no coming back. How can I trust her not to do this again? Why would I invest so much energy into this woman -- even friendship!!! -- knowing it could all be for naught at the drop of a bedsheet?

 

I wanted to let you know that, I too, struggled with addiction many years ago. In many ways, I still do. I does get easier. I promise. Just stay clean and find friends that encourage you to do so. The old urges will come up, but once you are able to establish a better life for yourself, you understand how your addiction could destroy it and continue to choose your new life each time.

 

I really do appreciate that. I do.

 

Thanks.

 

Now, marry me.

[FindingMyselfAgain]

Anyone else got some input on this?

[Chrome Barracuda]

Anyone else got some input on this?

 

I got some good stuff to tell you.

 

Get your act together and move on.

 

Why are you wasting time with this chick, if she's weak to go back to something that was so hostile in the first place and no be clear on her issues then why are you with her. She aint no good!!! leave her alone!!!

 

You said you used to drink alot. Go stay sober and find a single woman that has no issues and no baggage. and preferably no baby daddy's! lol.

[FindingMyselfAgain]

I got some good stuff to tell you.

 

Get your act together and move on.

 

Why are you wasting time with this chick, if she's weak to go back to something that was so hostile in the first place and no be clear on her issues then why are you with her. She aint no good!!! leave her alone!!!

 

You said you used to drink alot. Go stay sober and find a single woman that has no issues and no baggage. and preferably no baby daddy's! lol.

 

Thanks. Good advice.

 

That, plus the other fellow who said the problem can be solved with Duct Tape and a Glock.

 

Between those two pieces of advice, I am certain to find happiness.

[FindingMyselfAgain]

Well, I found out that since Thanksgiving, the woman -- a 42 year old Girl Scout Mom -- has done crack cocaine with the ex-con new 'husband' / boyfriend, for three days running. She has already been infected with Hepatitus C.

 

I no longer want her.

 

My love for her has shattered.