He keeps saying their divorce is so close...

[nadiaj2727]

I just broke up with my xMM until he's divorced, and am trying to do NC. However we work together and he keeps finding ways to talk to me. The only time I give in is when he tells me that very soon he and his wife will file for divorce (which he has been telling me for months). He keeps apologizing and saying he shouldn't have taken so long to move his divorce forward and that he now he knows what he has to do to get it done. But then all he ends up telling me is what SHE's doing to move towards divorce, so it doesn't sound like he's really doing anything except (maybe?) trying to hurry along her acceptance of it. Ever since he moved out, she doesn't want the divorce, although he said in the beginning that they were separated and mutually wanted to divorce.

 

The other day he told me that the reason he has been following her lead and waiting for her to do everything related to the divorce is that she's told him that they need to file for it jointly and if he doesn't agree to that, then he can file and she will have 30 days to answer, and she will contest it. He said that would make it take a lot longer than going along with her schedule and filing it together. (They are both attorneys, but neither is a family law/ divorce attorney, and neither has hired one.) He keeps saying they are going to file for a nice and easy joint divorce together, and that's why it's taking so long. (But all the while she is dragging her feet, coming up with excuse upon excuse not to file, and he is letting her do so.)

 

I looked up the laws in our state and although there is a joint petition for dissolution of marriage, one person still has to be the petitioner and the other the respondant, and they have 30 days to respond, just like any other case. From everything he's been been telling me about her not wanting a divorce anymore, I could not imagine her agreeing to be the petitioner... therefore she would have 30 days to contest it regardless.

 

So I asked him over email (b/c every time I talk to him in person I get too upset) why he had told me that if they filed together she would have 30 days to respond, when no matter what, that would be the case. This was his response:

 

"She has done several divorces. Unless she was lying to me, she told me it was just like a stipulated motion. Usually with a stipulated motion one party files it and the other party agrees to it. You can stipulate to the petition and either simultaneously file a response or you can waive the response. She is the petitioner. She was saying if I forced the timing on her, she would simply not stipulate to it, make me be the petitioner and she would then have 30 days to answer. I sense from our final conversations and from this e-mail that you are questioning my honesty. I also sense you are angry with me. I am sorry if you feel this way."

 

This response made me so mad. I was like, you are leaving this all up to her when you are the one who wants a divorce? You are leaving all the knowledge in her hands when normally you are so inquisitive about everything and you want to find out all the information about everything first hand?? Something is fishy here. Why would you let her be in charge of the divorce when you have told me that she doesn't want it, and you have told me that she's making your life a living hell? Why are you letting or making her be the petitioner to file for divorce from you, when you are the one who wants to be out of the relationship and the one who moved out and has been in another relationship for 8 months? Plus, if she is really being that manipulative, you are just taking it instead of standing up for yourself?

 

His response was:

 

"She's the Petioner simply because she drafted them. It doesn't matter who is the Petitioner is an uncontested situation. It only matters in a contested situation. I was not making her file them. Since it was uncontested and I thought we both wanted the same thing, I thought we would file them together. I know the basic mechanisms of divorce law. In fact, I understand the realities of contested versus uncontested. Constested could go on for a long time, just like any lawsuit, which I did not want of course. look up the basic statute and then dress me down. look up the basic statute and then dress me down. What you've told me about divorce law did not enlighten me. You have drawn all sorts of incorrect conclusions. I don't know why you are so angry with me. Maybe you need to be angry to dump me."

 

Does this sound like double talk? Why in the first email did he tell me he's leaving it all up to her and he sounded like he knew nothing about the process, and then in the second email he sounds like he knows exactly what he's talking about? Plus, I have to draw conclusions about how a divorce works because he's never given me any details about how they are doing their divorce or how long it will take or what to expect, etc... he just says he is waiting for her to agree to file it with him but she wants to do a bunch of things first. So I wanted to look it up myself.

 

I can't figure out if they are even really getting divorced or not. I used to believe everything he said and now I believe nothing. Am I being too hard on him? The only time I ever talk to him, he tries to convince me that his divorce is underway, and I am so so angry at him for not doing it sooner. Am I being unreasonable? I want to just have NC with him but then he starts telling me that their divorce is close, which used to get my hopes up but now it just makes me so mad. Why does he keep telling me it's close, why can't he just file? I am so disillusioned.

 

I want to tell him that I don't want to be with him anymore at all, period. I just need to get on with my life because I feel I've spent too much time waiting for him to take action, and he is STILL letting it all up to his wife. Since he's been telling me since March that he wants a divorce and they're getting a divorce, I don't understand why he doesn't just do it, and his lack of action makes his words lose their credibility to me. Therefore I just can't continue in this relationship even when they finally get divorced (correction: when she finally files for divorce). Would that mean I totally lack understanding and patience and that I didn't love him enough to wait it through? I don't know what to do. I just want to move on with my life, and I guess I can't do that while I'm waiting to see if he gets divorced, even WITHOUT being in a relationship with him. Any advice/ insight is greatly appreciated, thank you.

[LucreziaBorgia]

You will need to end all contact, including email contact right now. He is trying to buy time, and he is pulling passive aggressive bullsh*t on you that you don't need.

 

He needs to know that until he comes to you and shows you the finalized, signed and notarized original divorce papers (not copies - those can be faked), he is not to contact you in any way, shape or form - including email.

 

If you give even a centimeter in this, he will run with it and take mile after mile after mile. Don't give him that opportunity.

[nadiaj2727]

he is pulling passive aggressive bullsh*t on you that you don't need.

 

I'm glad LB that I'm not the only one who thought he's acting passive/ aggressive. From the beginnning he's acted that way, and manipulative too. (But I only just started to realize that, looking back on things.)

[2sunny]

if he's acting manipulative and passive agressive then he chose the right line of work as an attorney...

[nadiaj2727]

2sunny-- I'm an attorney too and I don't think I act manipulative or passive aggressive. That's quite a generalization, wouldn't you say? ;-p

[OWoman]

Nadia I understand what he's trying to do with his approach - he's trying to keep it amicable, keep his wife onside, let her think she's in control (which, of course, she is) so that she doesn't turn nasty... hoping that that turns out best for everyone, no one gets hurt, no recriminations, no guilt. My MM tried a similar approach initially, trying to weasle out of his M by degrees, slipping out quietly instead of storming out and slamming the door. Only... life doesn't work like that. There WILL be pain, there WILL be recriminations, there WILL be guilt - after all, it's a divorce! You can't avoid at least some of that kind of stuff. Trying to be nice doesn't work. It just makes it worse in the long run - creating false hope on the one side by sending mixed messages ("he's not pushing for this. He has doubts. He doesn't really want to go through with it.") and creating pain and frustration on the other ("if he really wants to end it, why is he taking so long? Is he having doubts about wanting to be with me?"). No one wins, not even the MM who ultimately has to face up to the added pain all round when a quick, clean process ages ago would have been far neater.

 

If you've already told him clearly what your feelings are about his delays, I don't see any point in your continuing the conversation with him. He's looking to stall, hoping it all gets settled without him having to be the bad guy, and as long as you're in that conversation with him it allows him to keep spinning and spinning and justifying to himself. If you've made your point, leave it there until he can answer it - with the answer you're waiting for, or the answer you're dreading (that he's not really serious about going through with it). You might want to set yourself some kind of timeline on that - exactly how long you're prepared to give him, before you give up on him and move on without him. You needn't tell him what your timeline is - but decide on something feasible and reasonable for yourself, so that you don't have to go about reviewing and amending it if circumstances change. And decide what it is you want in place by then - the divorce finalised? underway? What would you be prepared to concede under mitigating circumstances, if anything?

 

Taking that kind of control for yourself can be quite empowering. You won't have to feel you're challenging him or chasing him in his quest - he'll be the one having to deliver to your spec, by your deadline, or face your consequences.

[nadiaj2727]

That is really good advice, thank you. The problem is, now that I've seen how indecisive he's being, I don't think I want him anymore. I didn't think he was the kind of person to sit around and let things correct themselves... I thought he would take action. When we met he told me I was the most incredible woman I'd ever met and that he knows they've had issues for a long time and had talked about getting divorced, so the fact that he has such deep feelings for someone else is just additional evidence that he should not be married to her.

 

Well, I was expecting him to act on his feelings and his words. The man I fell in love with was very powerful and decisive and strong in my eyes. This man is a baby who needs me to hold his hand through every step... and then, he still can't make the steps.

 

Maybe he was sure he needed to end his marriage when he first got those strong feelings for me, but now he's wavering b/c he realized how hard it will be and how much is involved. He hasn't done ANYTHING to end it except move into his friend's furnished condo (and leave a lot of his stuff and his dogs at his wife's house... that just irritates me so much.) I guess the signs show he is just not ready to end it right now, and I can't hang around and wait. I like your suggestion of giving it a timetable, but I'm afraid that my self-imposed deadline for his divorce will arrive and they won't be divorced and i will have been wasting all that time waiting.

 

I just didn't think he had this character, I thought he had a different character. I did NOT want to be the other woman for 8 months, and I feel I would still be the other woman for ___ number of months I set my own deadlines for his divorce, so it would be just dragging out the months. Maybe I am too impatient and I need to have more faith in him and I need to be understanding of his situation. But it gets too hard and I hate his excuses and double talk. At times he's admitted that he's been a wimp and he hasn't acted quickly enough. At times he's said he's let her manipulate him and he's being punished for being the good guy. But he never changes, even after he apologizes to me for having it take so long, and even when he says he's learned his lesson and he is going to do what it takes.

 

Thanks for your comforting words, I appreciate them. ~Nadia

[frannie]

"I sense from our final conversations and from this e-mail that you are questioning my honesty. I also sense you are angry with me. I am sorry if you feel this way."

 

.. look up the basic statute and then dress me down. What you've told me about divorce law did not enlighten me. You have drawn all sorts of incorrect conclusions. I don't know why you are so angry with me. Maybe you need to be angry to dump me."

 

I want to tell him that I don't want to be with him anymore at all, period. I just need to get on with my life because I feel I've spent too much time waiting for him to take action, and he is STILL letting it all up to his wife. Since he's been telling me since March that he wants a divorce and they're getting a divorce, I don't understand why he doesn't just do it, and his lack of action makes his words lose their credibility to me.

 

... now that I've seen how indecisive he's being, I don't think I want him anymore. I didn't think he was the kind of person to sit around and let things correct themselves......

 

Maybe I am too impatient and I need to have more faith in him and I need to be understanding of his situation. But it gets too hard and I hate his excuses and double talk.

 

Yes, he's being indecisive, not the man you thought he was... not only is he leaving it up to his wife, being passive-agressive, but he's also being pretty snappy and nasty and it looks like quite evasive with you too.

 

No, I don't think you're too impatient, nor do you need to put more faith in him or be 'more understanding'... I think you're right to hate his excuses and double talk.

 

I'd say tell him no more conversations and back to NC. But actually I'd go further than that because I don't like the issues he appears to have... I don't think you'd be happy with him at all.

[nadiaj2727]

Right, I agree, but Frannie he F's with my head, I am not kidding. I'll be thinking how indecisive, passive-aggressive, MEAN, selfish, immature, and insecure he always is, and how I'm so glad I ended it and how I never want to talk to him again, and then he'll come into my office or he'll call me and he'll be like, "I don't understand why you think I'm being selfish." And suddenly I don't understand either. It's like he makes me feel bad for thinking bad things about him. He comes across as a perfect saint when he talks to me, and always has... I guess that's why it was so easy to fall for him and believe all his BS.

[nadiaj2727]

BTW, Frannie, I agree I need to go back to completely NC b/c even when we start talking about his divorce, he uses that as a way to continue calling me etc. Yesterday after I thought we'd resolved the issue as best as could be, he called me *three* times in a row last evening and left me long voicemails. The part I remember most is when he said, "I know you think I'm being selfish right now, but honestly I think you're being selfish too. You're only focused on your own feelings and I think after everything we've had, you owe me a compromise to at least be friends. Why can't we just be friends and go running and climbing together? If you valued what we had together, and you weren't just thinking about yourself, you would at least give me that."

 

UMMMMMMMM that is wrong in so many ways!! Does he actually think we can be friends after we've been in such a close relationship? I think he only wants to be "friends" b/c he thinks it will lead to the relationship starting back up again. Just like fighting about the divorce leads to him calling me and asking to be friends.

 

And the main problem is we see things so differently now... he "values" what we had together and I REALIZE that what we had together was an affair, and that's why I'm so upset.

 

In one of the voicemails he asked, "How can you go from being the love of my life to just not talking to me at all?"

 

I hate hate hate hate hate him!!!! I've already told him that actions speak louder than words and that I don't want him to tell me he wants to marry me, I'm the love of his life, or even that he loves me, until he SHOWS me that by doing what it takes to get divorced, so he can really deliver on the promises he makes based on these "feelings" of his. And yet he does it anyway! Every time he says he loves me I want to throw up now. He just doesn't get it. It makes me hate myself for being so gullible all along.

[reboot]

I think he only wants to be "friends" b/c he thinks it will lead to the relationship starting back up again.

Yah think?

 

I don't think you need any advice on this. You've got him figured out and you know what you need to do. Just stick to your guns.

[outofdarkness]

Your Title...They ALL say the D is sooo close...

[frannie]

Right, I agree, but Frannie he F's with my head, I am not kidding. I'll be thinking how indecisive, passive-aggressive, MEAN, selfish, immature, and insecure he always is, and how I'm so glad I ended it and how I never want to talk to him again, and then he'll come into my office or he'll call me and he'll be like, "I don't understand why you think I'm being selfish." And suddenly I don't understand either. It's like he makes me feel bad for thinking bad things about him. He comes across as a perfect saint when he talks to me, and always has... I guess that's why it was so easy to fall for him and believe all his BS.

 

"Suddenly I don't understand either..." Yeah I can imagine that, because just reading the tiny bit I've read here he sounds very verbally pushy. And I don't know if you've ever heard the term "word salad" relating to verbal abuse, but that feeling you have of not knowing your own mind, or any grip on the conversation, is because he's basically tossing words around... check it out.

 

"How can you go from being the love of my life to just not talking to me at all?" ... very manipulative, if you don't mind my commenting on that.

 

And you "owe him" to be friends with him..? Entitlement..?

 

The reason you're feeling hate, anger and upset is because he's basically pushing all your boundaries and treating you without respect

[nadiaj2727]

And I don't know if you've ever heard the term "word salad" relating to verbal abuse, but that feeling you have of not knowing your own mind, or any grip on the conversation, is because he's basically tossing words around

 

No, I've never heard of this. I will look it up. I've been looking up some of his traits (manipulative, insecure, immature, over-reacting, over-sensitive, self-contradicting, huge sense of entitlement, acting naive about things that seem common sense to most people, lying without even realizing it, lying and then denying it, switching stories, etc.) and I think it is part of an attempt to verbally/ emotionally abuse me because he himself is depressed and insecure. ANd I think he is in denial about reality and living in fantasy land It might be some kind of narcissism or some other disorder... it is seriously bad. When I was on his good side, he said the most beautiful words to me I'd ever heard. He told me I was intoxicating, driven, ambitious... he seemed to know me so well down to my core, and adore me. Now that I'm on his bad side he makes me feel like a little piece of poop. He acts like I'm personally going out of my way to hurt him, when all I'm doing is trying to get some peace away from him.

 

Do you think he does this on purpose to hurt me, or is he just so miserable with his own life and he really thinks he is super in love with me and can't lose me? If he's anything like this to W, I don't know *how* she put up w/ him for 15 years. Sometimes I wonder if she kicked him out of the house instead of him moving out to be with me like he told me. That would explain why he's never found a more permanant place to live and most of his stuff and his dogs are still there.

 

The worst part is when he says he "gets" me, he suddenly understands I'm totally right, and he doesn't know why he hasn't seen it that way before. I am so happy that finally it seems over and he will just let it rest b/c he's seen my point. But it never lasts long, soon he is acting all hurt and upset again. Just last night he wrote me the nicest email I'd ever gotten since trying to break up with him, it sounded so sincere and he apologized to me for being selfish and only thinking of himself. Is *this* a trick too?!?!? How can someone say they realize you're right and they're sorry, if they don't really mean it?

[frannie]

I don't know if it's purposeful... the little I know is that it seems to be driven from a degree of fear and sense of being under attack even from seemingly innocuous statements that you make (e.g. stating your own feelings!)... hence the need to deflect, reject 'blame', devalue your opinion, etc. etc.

 

I think really only trained therapists etc. could answer those questions... Personally I think the bottom line if you're dealing with people like that is just... don't bother. It's truly madenning (in the worst way) and you can never really, TRULY get through to them.

 

Best to hope they get help and you can put a distance between you.

[nadiaj2727]

I think really only trained therapists etc. could answer those questions...

 

He has been seeing a therapist since he moved out of W's house. He always says his therapist backs him up completely. For instance when I told him he is "separated", not "divorced," and therefore still MARRIED, he was like, "No, my therapist says I'm NOT married, and I'm not." He would totally try to convince me he wasn't married, even though his W still wears her ring and he hasn't told her he's seeing anyone else and he goes to her house to get his dog every time he goes running. That's not even truly separated, let alone NOT married, but he would tell me with a straight face he's not married b/c he doesn't feel married, and his therapist agrees.

 

Lately he says things like "I feel betrayed and discarded, and I've talked with my therapist about these feelings and she says your timing is suspicious, if you really loved me, you would stick it out with me, but you're fleeing once my divorce is just almost here."

 

I started to think his therapist is just as crazy as he is, or maybe she's in love with him (I guess he has that effect, (sigh)), or maybe he's lying about seeing a therapist or what she says to him. (Although he said he called her every time I tried to break up with him... poor therapist!)

 

I don't think even the therapist can help him, especially if she's validating his strange feelings/ actions, and they're both acting like *I'm* the one who's crazy!! He said that she would be willing to talk to both of us together. I was like, umm, no, I don't trust that therapist.

[frannie]

I think really only trained therapists etc. could answer those questions...

 

He has been seeing a therapist since he moved out of W's house. He always says his therapist backs him up completely. For instance when I told him he is "separated", not "divorced," and therefore still MARRIED, he was like, "No, my therapist says I'm NOT married, and I'm not." He would totally try to convince me he wasn't married, even though his W still wears her ring and he hasn't told her he's seeing anyone else and he goes to her house to get his dog every time he goes running. That's not even truly separated, let alone NOT married, but he would tell me with a straight face he's not married b/c he doesn't feel married, and his therapist agrees.

 

Lately he says things like "I feel betrayed and discarded, and I've talked with my therapist about these feelings and she says your timing is suspicious, if you really loved me, you would stick it out with me, but you're fleeing once my divorce is just almost here."

 

I started to think his therapist is just as crazy as he is, or maybe she's in love with him (I guess he has that effect, (sigh)), or maybe he's lying about seeing a therapist or what she says to him. (Although he said he called her every time I tried to break up with him... poor therapist!)

 

I don't think even the therapist can help him, especially if she's validating his strange feelings/ actions, and they're both acting like *I'm* the one who's crazy!! He said that she would be willing to talk to both of us together. I was like, umm, no, I don't trust that therapist.

 

Did you hear any of those things from the mouth of the therapist..? Or is it all coming via MM?

 

Oh scrub that, I just realised you said his therapist may not even exist! And that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest...

[norajane]

I have three male friends who are going through/have gone through divorce. This is how it works:

 

One or both of the M couple files for divorce. In two cases, the H's moved out of the house at some point prior to or after filing. In one case, the couple still officially lived together, but the W was mostly living at her parents' house, and completely moved out toward the end.

 

All three H's are dating:

- Divorce is final for one of them, so no issues. He did not date until his divorce was final.

- The W of one of them is contesting the divorce, primarily for financial reasons - the longer they are not divorced, the later her alimony starts and in the meantime, he pays for the mortgage and bills and for the kids. He doesn't care as he is well-off, and he just moved in with his new gf (whom he was not dating until after he had already moved out of the house for a while). His wife knows that he is living with the new gf.

- The third couple both filed at the same time recently, and he is living in his own place nearby. They have a 4 month old baby, so he wanted to stay close. He hasn't really been dating yet since it's so new, but is open to it, and his W knows and is free to date herself.

 

What I'm getting at is you can't get a divorce until the papers are actually filed!

 

What I'm getting at is men who are getting divorced, actually take steps to get divorced and start new lives OPENLY and not in secret.

 

What I'm getting at is if you feel like something's not right, it's probably not right.

 

Protect yourself and stay NC at least until there's a divorce in process.

[Mino]

Check out "

[COLOR=#0000ff]Click here: What is Gaslighting? - Associated Content[/COLOR]

[Mino]

Gaslighting can be done to wife or OW. interesting subject

[nadiaj2727]

Thanks Mino, that was very helpful. I did some more research on gaslighting. In some ways it is him, in some ways it isn't. He is definitely manipulative/ controlling but he doesn't go to the extent of staging events and then telling me they didn't happen (at least, not that I've been able to figure out.

 

However, he does say and do these things a lot, which as I've now read are indications of gaslighting or other manipulative attempts to verbally control me:

 

~ "If you really loved me the way I love you, you would ____________."

 

~ He says something and then he denies that he said it, or he explains it away by saying he really meant the opposite.

 

~ He is very jealous whenever I go out and always asks me what I'll do if someone tries to introduce me to a guy, if a guy hits on me, etc.

 

~ He is controlling and wants to know my whereabouts all the time. Every day he would ask me what I was doing and if I had plans he would get upset. He wanted to see me every night and when I did have plans he would want to know where I was and he would want me to contact him even though my friends don't know about him.

 

(These things are worsened by the fact that HE'S MARRIED so what right does he have to put all these limitations and demands on me and my time, when he's the one who is still committed to someone else?!)

 

~ He is also jealous of my own time and my time with my (girl) friends. He will say things to put them down and act like they shouldn't be hanging out with me for some reason, like, "Why does Maria want to spend so much time at your house if she's married? She must have a lot of marital problems" (When what he really means is, "I'm going to find a reason for you to question why your friends want to spend time with you, b/c I want you to spend all your time with me, not them).

 

~ He is very smothering and even if I say I need time to get something done on my own, he'll offer to help, or to come over and play with my dogs while I do it, etc... it's like he's afraid to let me be alone.

 

~ Instead of listening to my feelings, he says that I'm hurting him by telling him them. He often says it feels like I've "punched him in his stomach" when I say anything negative about him or our relationship, or that he can't believe I'm saying that b/c it hurts him so much, or if I still had strong feelings for him, I wouldn't be saying that about him.

 

~ He always has to be right but he says *I* have to be right, and if I say my point of view, he'll say "Why do you always have to be right, Nadia? Why is it always about YOUR opinion?"

 

~ He'll act sorry or say he understands my point of view (finally)... I always thought this meant I had talked some sense into him, but from what I just read, this is still a manipulative attempt b/c if I think he agrees with me, I'll keep talking to him/ carrying on the relationship, so he'll do ANYTHING to keep control over me, even say he agrees with me when he doesn't.

 

~ If I say something about him, he'll throw it back and say the same thing about me. For instance if I say "You're being selfish," he'll say, "Well honestly I think *you're* being selfish," instead of just listening to why I'm feeling he's being selfish.

 

~ He'll argue incessantly with me until I just give up b/c I'm tired of arguing.

 

~ He'll cry (sometimes real tears, sometimes I've questioned their authenticity and think he's acting) and say he can't bear the thought of losing me.

 

~ He seems to have this desire to take up all my time -- he'll say he needs to talk to me for 5 minutes but then he'll drag out the conversation (through arguments, if he has to) until it's half a day. Then he'll say, "Since we're talking, let's go get dinner... since it's getting late, let's just go to my house and sleep" (AFTER I'd told him no more sleeping together, etc.) He tried every attempt to drag out our time together.

 

~ He has no respect for my boundaries or peace of mind, he'll call me at 2 or 3 in the morning, he'll call me constantly and leave me very long voicemails even when he knows I'm working, out with my friends, sleeping, etc... he'll come into my office at work to talk to me about personal things when I've asked him not to, etc.

 

~ Whenever I tell him one thing he's done wrong, for example if I would just gave him one "issue" off this list (which I wouldn't since I'm not talking to him), he'll say "Wow I can't believe you're thinking so negatively about me. You must really think I'm an awful person. I don't know how you could have had such strong feelings for me if you really think I'm this bad kind of person. This just totally surprises and shocks me." He has ALWAYS made me feel guilty for telling him how I feel or expressing when I think he's doing something wrong.

 

~ He'll repeatedly say I "at least" "owe him" THAT... being friends, having a face to face discussion, etc., after "everything we've shared together." If I say anything negative, such as I just need time to myself, over the phone or on email, he'll explode and say "you at least should have told me that in person, I deserve at least that after everything we've been through."

 

~ He'll distort things he just said or deny even saying them... he contradicts himself and then when I notice he says I'm not listening to what he's really saying and I'm just TRYING to be critical and look for inconsistencies.

 

~ He also filters what *I* say into what he thinks I'm saying or should be saying or shouldn't be saying. For example he might say, "I can't BELIEVE you just said you think I'm a bad person who is purposefully deceiving my wife" (when really I just said something like, "you need to be honest with your W so she can get on with her own life.")

 

~ He uses a mean and derisive tone with me until I get mean back to him out of frustration, and then he says I'm no better than him.

 

~ Whenever I try to bring up something he's done wrong, he'll counter with something I did wrong in a similar or completely different situation (doesn't matter the context) a long time ago and say I'm no better than him and how can I judge him.

 

~ He throws temper tantrums when he doesn't get what he wants.

 

~ He is very extreme, and only sees things in black and white. From the beginning if I've said, "I don't think we should talk anymore about our feelings until you're divorced," he would go off off a long rampage about how I don't see any future for us b/c he happens to not yet be divorced, etc. He talks in VERY extreme terms like "you're my soul mate, I want to be with you forever" to the next minute (when we're having a problem) "I guess we just weren't meant to be, I guess my dream of forever is over right now."

 

~ He SULKS when he doesn't get his way and his entire mood changes, ruining the evening until we've had a thorough discussion and I've given into whatever it was he wanted.

 

~ Alternatively he decides he just can't be around me anymore and he just leaves in the middle of a conversation if I say something he doesn't like, or in the middle of whatever we were doing if I couldn't guess that something was on his mind and fix it for him.

 

~ He expects me to be a mind-reader and understand his most delicate emotion, and yet I never feel like he understands my feelings at all.

 

~ He tells me bad things other people have said about me, and makes me feel like I can only trust him and he's the only person who has my self-interest in mind and he can defend me against all the nay-sayers.

 

~ He's the most passive-aggressive person I've ever met. This last email was a perfect example: "I assume you meant to thank me for your raise. :)" A smiley face, seriously!!!! How passive-aggressive is that!!

 

So yeah, I'm keeping this list as a reminder that I can never ever ever see him again. I don't think our biggest problem was that he was married. In fact I'm glad he's married b/c it's an easier out than trying to explain that I think he's verbally controlling and just not right for me (although I've tried to explain that, and he's come up with his arsenal of verbal tactics listed above). I don't know why his poor wife is still married to him, but she can have him.

 

Thank you ladies for giving me this information, I always knew he was immature and childish but only now do I see that he was trying to manipulate and control me all along.

[OWoman]

Gaslighting can be done to wife or OW. interesting subject

 

Tx for the link, Mino - very enlightening! It sounds exactly like what MM's W had been doing to him over the years! Wonder if that means she's had a(nother) OM on the side? (MM was originally her OM during her first M.)

[OWoman]

I always knew he was immature and childish but only now do I see that he was trying to manipulate and control me all along.

 

Nadia whatever his motivation, and whether is behaviour is maliciously intended or not, I think you've listed enough evidence to convince anyone that this is not the guy for you! Maybe he loves you, maybe he's just manipulating you, but either way he doesn't treat you in a way that's respectful or loving CONSISTENTLY and there's no reason your self-respect should be subjected to such an assault!

 

You've gained some things on a professional level from your R; maybe you've simply outgrown him?

[outofdarkness]

Gaslighting can be done to wife or OW. interesting subject

Yeah, gaslighting...Am very familiar w/ the term. My H had a "shadow" wife. He cheated on her too....Many times over.

[Mino]

Wow, sounds to me like a very imature, and has no self esteem man. Is he bipolar, or has ocd issues? He obviously has no self love, and he is looking at you to fill this void. Very tough situation, I know