Woggle Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Maybe you need to look at the fact that you only seem to able to fall in love with men that don't want you. I am not trying to be insulting but if this pattern exists you might want to examine your issues.
Darkzen Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 I know but I still want to find both with the same person. I will feel cheated if I end up with someone with whom I never went through "in love" stage. I'd rather find someone that I love, than ruin a perfectly good relationship due to feeling cheated. I went the route of following "in love" and it was the worst thing I could've done. A) you don't take the time to feel the person out before making a commitment and B) you over look plenty of bad traits because of these feelings. In the end, it leads to wasted time in the grand scheme of finding a partner to share your life with.
spookie Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Maybe you need to look at the fact that you only seem to able to fall in love with men that don't want you. I am not trying to be insulting but if this pattern exists you might want to examine your issues. I think this is a great point that everyone should think about. I am positive that I often mistake fear of losing someone for the "in love" feeling. I used to think that the two were equivalent until I realized the fear can, and often does, stem from things other than love. Negative things like fear of being alone, fear of abandonment, etc. which really have nothing to do with whoever you are with.
Timberlane Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 I hope so do, but I don't believe men ever really mature. Condescending mantras like this are not going to help.
squeak Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 I don't know what to say here, I *want* to believe games are bad, and mostly don't play them, I only withdraw when faced with a real hurt-but yet...I completely see your point. I am definitely not the great doyen of relationship knowledge. I see both points too equally to pose any good arguments. But-I will offer that the games may be important to assess in the early stages. It is doing the opposite of what all your crazy making chemicals are telling you, the ones that blind you early on. But I'm not sure coming to conclusions based on the problems here are a good thing. Overall I can't say it's bad to do the first few months, but seems like too much trouble after that. Then again...how bad do you want it? It would be an interesting experiment for yourself to keep it up for a long time, then figure out the results, and how you feel about it overall. Certainly no more exhausting than the constant "does he like me as much as I like him" or "would he like me better if i wasn't so available emotionally". I want to say games are bad...but on some deep level-I can't because I see the pattern in myself and ex's that it was always the one who was not so available or never fully returned the love that stayed on in the heart. Or the one that it never came fulll cirlcle to completion. Edit add on: Or maybe all it accomplishes is binding the men who are perpetually emotionally unavailable to you for that much longer? The next question is--are the men you find most desirable the emotionally unavailable? Are all desirable men unavailable emotionally?
Sean0775 Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 It's ridiculous. And, I'm hoping, maybe it's just our age group. Maybe these morons in their early twenties will mature in a couple years and it will be different. I say this about women at least every week, twice on Sunday.
lino Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Believe me there are plenty of men who would love to find a drama free woman who doesn't play games. Yes there are lots of them & I'm such a guy. I think this thread even shows that too many women just love to play games, even if they doubt it's right or necessary to do so. I've changed from how I was up until not that long ago but I wouldn't ever play these stupid games, what's the point? I can't see how a relationship is fun if you're always testing your partner. However I'll never be as nice to women as I was in the past. I actually WANT a woman who displays some neediness! I've never been with one of them, just girls who are very false and/or full of attitude Also as someone said, the community in this website probably isn't something to base all your ideas on. I know I wouldn't be here if my love life was fine.
finallyhappyme Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 I just don't see the point of games?? I mean your saying your emotionally drained already from playing all these games and your ready to call it quits.. Well what happens if your games do work? What happens when they work so well in fact that you get this new guy completely wrapped around your finger and into a relationship. And then you decide ok I have him NOW I can be myself....then what? I'll tell you then what..then little by little you will show your true colors and he will start to say that you've changed. And arguments will start and in the end you probably could have avoided it all by just being true to yourself and being honest. I hard lesson I have learned is that what you want is not always what you need in life and what you need can turn into what you want if you LET IT. You being physically drained right now is your body's / soul's way of letting you know " RED ALERT " something is wrong here. Playing games got me no-where and it just made me avoid my own insecurities, because by playing games I could pretend to be someone else. It's up to you in the end but I think you really can meet a decent person who will appreciate the fact your one of the many, not playing games.
squeak Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Yes there are lots of them & I'm such a guy. I think this thread even shows that too many women just love to play games, even if they doubt it's right or necessary to do so. I've changed from how I was up until not that long ago but I wouldn't ever play these stupid games, what's the point? I can't see how a relationship is fun if you're always testing your partner. However I'll never be as nice to women as I was in the past. I actually WANT a woman who displays some neediness! I've never been with one of them, just girls who are very false and/or full of attitude Also as someone said, the community in this website probably isn't something to base all your ideas on. I know I wouldn't be here if my love life was fine. I agree with this too. And the above comment. I'm a self admitted needy type. I don't play games because my neediness comes through so may as well not try to pretend. If someone is turned off by that, then it is better I know sooner rather than later. But I can't discount they may (some games) serve some purposes, if someone can do it. Problem is -if someone can't return the level of involvement I want, I'd want to know, and that can only be done by ....da da da(cue drum roll)_being myself -no holding back. But you've got to have ovaries of steel because you may see some rejection there and have to be prepared for it, which game playing protects you from, to a certain degree. I believe in quid pro quo though. If I see withdrawal I try not to come forward too much and assess what is happening. Try is the key word, I also tend to be confrontational, so much for subtlety.
Kamille Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Funny because this actually links up to what I am going through right now: accepting 1) that I want somebody in my life 2)accepting that I deserve to be love as I am for who I am. My new beau has been quite skillfull when it came to disarming me and calling me on my attempts to protect myself - ie - play games. I can't believe how lucky I am to have met someboy that strong who could get through to me, but I also suddenly realize that I was keeping the men I was dating at a distance. It was about self-protection. I'm discovering that there's power in letting yourself feel vulnerable. In one sentence, when I read your op Shadow, it made me wonder if perhaps you think you don't deserve love.
Ariadne Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 I think this is a great point that everyone should think about. Hey spookie, Did you go prostitute already? Ariadne
brothermartin Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 I've never in my life played any games with a woman. And I am a solid, good-hearted person. I've never been afraid of commitment with the woman I love, or being completely open and honest with the women I only dated. You want to know why playing games seems to be the answer? Because anybody can be fooled. ANYBODY. And thats what you're doing, you're fooling this guy into sticking around, and then justifying you're actions because he dose stick around. Playing games with a person's feelings and emotions just to keep them in your presence is wrong, regardless of the results. People have been doing this for decades, believing what thier told by someone because they seem so convincing and authentic with thier words and actions. They are called POLITICIANS. Anybody can do what works, but it takes real courage and character to do what might not work.
troutie jr Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 I've never in my life played any games with a woman. And I am a solid, good-hearted person. I've never been afraid of commitment with the woman I love, or being completely open and honest with the women I only dated. You want to know why playing games seems to be the answer? Because anybody can be fooled. ANYBODY. And thats what you're doing, you're fooling this guy into sticking around, and then justifying you're actions because he dose stick around. Playing games with a person's feelings and emotions just to keep them in your presence is wrong, regardless of the results. People have been doing this for decades, believing what thier told by someone because they seem so convincing and authentic with thier words and actions. They are called POLITICIANS. Anybody can do what works, but it takes real courage and character to do what might not work. Here! Here! Brother! Games are for insecure people. People who don't know what they want because they have not figured themselves out. No one can play a game alone.
monkey00 Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 I think games are often a sign of low interest levels and/or insecurities. People with high interest level in someone often won't run the risk of playing because they feel it can create negative outcomes. But I think in most relationships, there's bound to be one party with more power..that is the person who's less needy.
underpants Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 I agree, No one can play the game alone. Also with the idea that 'games' are really worthless in the long run. What is it that you win exactly? Even if you get someone by means of a game. There is still the knowledge that you had to 'play' them to get them. Seems like an empty win to me. If you have to present a false front to keep an interest in someone then it is YOU that sells yourself short in the end. I love direct communication. Now with this I have weeded out alot of people but hey...why date them under false pretenses only to have my heart shattered when a few provoking questions can get it all out of the way sooner? I do remember one 'character' (we never dated, but he was interested) that told me I was "intimidating". He then went on to tell me of DiAngelo theories and how I should by his research and tactics be really 'into' him. From my perspective I just felt that it was a shame that he could not actually hear me. Oh well, he later went on to describe me as a whore and a bitch. If that helps him, fine. I was just left feeling like I dodged a bullet. Games led to more games. It becomes a treadmill of dysfunction. Much easier to just be yourself and be comfortable with that. When you find a partner that you can really relax with, then you can have 'good and healthy' games.
Ocean-Blue Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 Recently I've come to realize that I don't feel comfortable in a relationship unless I'm either a) strategizing and keeping a guy at a distance, or b) just not that into him so I don't care how he feels about me. I guess I need some convincing that playing games is actually a bad thing. I'd love to believe that just being honest and yourself is enough, but there's sooo much evidence to the contrary. I mean practically every thread of heartbreak on this forum is a case in point. It's always some girl or guy who was dumped because they cared too much and pushed their partner away with their "neediness"/"dependency." Nevermind the fact that more often than not they were just being open about their feelings, and the other person couldn't handle that. Meanwhile their partner is off in the clouds pining for the emotionally unavailable ex who treated them like ****. In 99.9% of cases the people you can't get over are the ones who didn't care about you. I mean it's just a fact of human nature that you pull back and somebody gives you more. People want what they can't have. Posters on this forum will deny and deny, but the evidence speaks for itself -- right? The "right guy" is always just around the corner, one who will appreciate you for who you are and not be turned off by your affection or insecurities yada yada. We've all heard it a million times. We tell it to ourselves when we get dumped and convince ourselves he didn't deserve us and there's a guy out there who will. But I'm not convinced that this mythological right guy exists, and if he does he's one in a million. I mean he would have to be above natural human limitations. He would have to be superhuman in a way. I just read the book "Why Men Love Bitches" and it pretty much confirms all of my thoughts on this subject. Ideally a woman is confident and independent enough to never get too emotionally involved, but few women are so the rest of us have to fake it with "games." Being somewhat emotionally undetached only comes naturally to most of us when we don't care that much about the other person. Somebody give me a good reason why I'm wrong here. I think "playing games" is counterproductive. What is the point of not being sincere and forthcoming about your feelings? I mean, if the relationship is to go on (assuming the "strategizing" doesn't blow up in your face), he's bound to figure you out eventually. Who wants to be with someone who calculates their every move? It can get tiring real fast. I can understand the initial appeal of someone who maintains some mystery...but if that's all he's doing, then it's "bye bye" to him. Really, no one wants to be with someone who expends such a great deal of energy premeditating everything. It's quite juvenile actually. If you are a generally emotional, verbose person, why the heck would you change that about yourself just to hold on to a man? He is bound to figure you out eventually...and then what? Male or female, it's nice to know exactly what you are getting yourself into (so that you can decide if it is something you wish to pursue). It is the respectful thing to do.
Cobra_X30 Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 I just read the book "Why Men Love Bitches" and it pretty much confirms all of my thoughts on this subject. Ideally a woman is confident and independent enough to never get too emotionally involved, but few women are so the rest of us have to fake it with "games." Being somewhat emotionally undetached only comes naturally to most of us when we don't care that much about the other person. Somebody give me a good reason why I'm wrong here. Shadow, I'm pretty sure everyone is just going to say "dont play games... be yourself... yada, yada" Thats good safe advice. I know about as much there is to know about game playing. Its about bieng able to read the other person and responding effectively. If you cant do that... then dont play games, because you will hurt yourself and others.
Author shadowplay Posted October 31, 2007 Author Posted October 31, 2007 Shadow, I'm pretty sure everyone is just going to say "dont play games... be yourself... yada, yada" Thats good safe advice. I know about as much there is to know about game playing. Its about bieng able to read the other person and responding effectively. If you cant do that... then dont play games, because you will hurt yourself and others. Could you elaborate on what you mean? I think we're talking about the same thing, though. What I do is basically follow my gut. If my gut tells me someone needs space right now or I should pull back now, that's what I do. It's a way of protecting myself. I have two competing voices in my head. Voice A tells me to pull closer and be totally open about my feelings at a given moment, while Voice B (the more rationale one) often says "this isn't a good time. You're being impulsive. Will you regret this later?" I've tried experiments following both voices. 80-90% of the time I regret following Voice B. Voice B also tends to pop up when I'm feeling particularly insecure so I take this as a sign NOT to follow it. For example, if I'm worrying what the other person is getting more distant Voice B says "be more affectionate," which really means "see if he'll return your affection." Voice B is the voice of insecurity and that's why I try to ignore it.
Author shadowplay Posted October 31, 2007 Author Posted October 31, 2007 Maybe I'm just not ready for a relationship...I'm starting to seriously wonder.
Cobra_X30 Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 Could you elaborate on what you mean? I think we're talking about the same thing, though. What I do is basically follow my gut. If my gut tells me someone needs space right now or I should pull back now, that's what I do. It's a way of protecting myself. I have two competing voices in my head. Voice A tells me to pull closer and be totally open about my feelings at a given moment, while Voice B (the more rationale one) often says "this isn't a good time. You're being impulsive. Will you regret this later?" I've tried experiments following both voices. 80-90% of the time I regret following Voice B. Voice B also tends to pop up when I'm feeling particularly insecure so I take this as a sign NOT to follow it. For example, if I'm worrying what the other person is getting more distant Voice B says "be more affectionate." Voice B is the voice of insecurity and that's why I try to ignore it. When you say 'gut' feeling what you really mean is emotion. Now emotions can be a great guide for you, if you have some control of them. Most women work on this level and its a double edged sword. Bieng able to read poeple is based primarily in understanding them. It doesnt usually take long to figure out someone's core motives. I'm going to be honest Shadow. I dont think you should be playing games so much as you probably do. Your using it as a way to shield and protect your feelings. I also get a strong feeling from you that there are some emotional problems you need to deal with. You have pain in your past and it shows. Instead of playing games... substitute for something like controlled emotional expression. This will allow you to not bottle up your feelings, and seem too clingy/needy.
Author shadowplay Posted October 31, 2007 Author Posted October 31, 2007 Instead of playing games... substitute for something like controlled emotional expression. This will allow you to not bottle up your feelings, and seem too clingy/needy. I erased what I wrote.
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