shadowplay Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Recently I've come to realize that I don't feel comfortable in a relationship unless I'm either a) strategizing and keeping a guy at a distance, or b) just not that into him so I don't care how he feels about me. I guess I need some convincing that playing games is actually a bad thing. I'd love to believe that just being honest and yourself is enough, but there's sooo much evidence to the contrary. I mean practically every thread of heartbreak on this forum is a case in point. It's always some girl or guy who was dumped because they cared too much and pushed their partner away with their "neediness"/"dependency." Nevermind the fact that more often than not they were just being open about their feelings, and the other person couldn't handle that. Meanwhile their partner is off in the clouds pining for the emotionally unavailable ex who treated them like ****. In 99.9% of cases the people you can't get over are the ones who didn't care about you. I mean it's just a fact of human nature that you pull back and somebody gives you more. People want what they can't have. Posters on this forum will deny and deny, but the evidence speaks for itself -- right? The "right guy" is always just around the corner, one who will appreciate you for who you are and not be turned off by your affection or insecurities yada yada. We've all heard it a million times. We tell it to ourselves when we get dumped and convince ourselves he didn't deserve us and there's a guy out there who will. But I'm not convinced that this mythological right guy exists, and if he does he's one in a million. I mean he would have to be above natural human limitations. He would have to be superhuman in a way. I just read the book "Why Men Love Bitches" and it pretty much confirms all of my thoughts on this subject. Ideally a woman is confident and independent enough to never get too emotionally involved, but few women are so the rest of us have to fake it with "games." Being somewhat emotionally undetached only comes naturally to most of us when we don't care that much about the other person. Somebody give me a good reason why I'm wrong here.
spookie Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 I'm with you on everything. I wish it weren't the case but there's too much evidence supporting what you wrote and none at all to the contrary. My ex, in his own words: "I wish you didn't CARE as much!" Whenever I played the pulling game, he'd get closer. Eventually it just got exhausting though; I realized I'd rather be alone than have to screw with his head every time I wanted some affection. Every ex I didn't give a sh!!t for (and mistreated in small ways) was madly in love with me and brokenhearted for a good deal of time after it was over. Every guy I demonstrated care for didn't give a sh!!t about me. (And the care came first, in case anyone was going to suggest I tend to go for a$$4oles) I've even tried out social experiments relating to this at parties and stuff. If I try to look hot but kind of ignore whoever is trying to pick me up, he'll try harder. Even if I'm being rude - he'll chase me all over town to get my number. If I act like I care about what he says, interest levels plummet. It's ridiculous. And, I'm hoping, maybe it's just our age group. Maybe these morons in their early twenties will mature in a couple years and it will be different.
spookie Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Oh, and I wanted to add.... from my perspective as a woman (relatively) recently liberated from a relationship heavily ladden with the kinds of games you speak of, it just isn't worth it to be with someone with whom you have to play those kinds of games, someone who doesn't WANT your affections. Your love is the most precious thing you can give to somebody. If he is going to reject it, it's because he doens't want to even begin to give as much as you have, and you don't want someone like that. It's just too exhausting to have to always watch out how much you love. If he doesn't want your love, screw him. Love yourself, love your family, your friends: people who appreciate it.
latefragment Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 you made some excellent points. I would agree with you about how being calm, cool and natural is antithetical to the infatuation stages of a relationship, but in fact, being calm, cool, and level-headed are *critical* to successfully navigating the beginnings of a relationship (i.e. don't lose your head and go nuts about the other person to the point where it's unrealistic or you scare them away). catch-22.
Author shadowplay Posted October 30, 2007 Author Posted October 30, 2007 Same here! This guy I dated for three years and wasn't in love with is still obsessed with me. I don't deserve his love. I treated him pretty badly and used him in some ways. Once recently I even asked him "why do you love me if I treated you so badly?" And he said that he can't help himself and he "just does" even though he realizes that I didn't treat him well.
Krytie TV Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Sure shadowplay, there definitely is some benefit to playing games, otherwise people wouldn't continue to do it. So if that's what you decide you feel comfortable with, go for it. There are plenty of guys out there that will play along with you as well as introduce you to some games of their own. What really matters, is whether that's the kind of relationship you want to have. Games will typically push good, solid people away and keep the controlling or insecure guys around. If that's your target dating demographic, play away. Many people live a life of playing games with relationships. Some of them, I guess, would even say they're happy.
Author shadowplay Posted October 30, 2007 Author Posted October 30, 2007 I'm with you on everything. I wish it weren't the case but there's too much evidence supporting what you wrote and none at all to the contrary. My ex, in his own words: "I wish you didn't CARE as much!" Whenever I played the pulling game, he'd get closer. Eventually it just got exhausting though; I realized I'd rather be alone than have to screw with his head every time I wanted some affection. Playing games is exhausting. I've been playing games with this guy for four months, but I'm not convinced there's any other way. It's certainly done the trick so far. I just don't know if I can keep it up. I have too many other things in my life to worry about now. Even though I really care about him, I'm almost tempted to end things because I'm starting to feel emotionally drained. It's ridiculous. And, I'm hoping, maybe it's just our age group. Maybe these morons in their early twenties will mature in a couple years and it will be different. I hope so do, but I don't believe men ever really mature.
Author shadowplay Posted October 30, 2007 Author Posted October 30, 2007 What really matters, is whether that's the kind of relationship you want to have. Games will typically push good, solid people away and keep the controlling or insecure guys around. If that's your target dating demographic, play away. Many people live a life of playing games with relationships. Some of them, I guess, would even say they're happy. But where are these "good, solid people" you speak of? I haven't found any. I still believe 99% of people respond to games, whether they admit to it or not. It makes me think it's something intrinsic in our nature as human beings.
ahah2322 Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 hey shadow, after reading your posts on stargazer's thread, i felt compelled to respond to this. oh babygirl, i think you are extremely careful and insecure. it seems like you try so hard to be so distant in sheer fear that you may otherwise portray yourself as needy and dependent on his affection. why do you feel that you are be needy? why not do things in moderation? i'm sure you will enjoy not being an ivory tower... and trust that you will not be excessively obsessive.
jcster Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 I'd love to believe that just being honest and yourself is enough, but there's sooo much evidence to the contrary. I mean practically every thread of heartbreak on this forum is a case in point. It's always some girl or guy who was dumped because they cared too much and pushed their partner away with their "neediness"/"dependency." The posters on this site (and I am one of them, obviously) are about .000001% of the general populance (and I got lazy about the zeroes, so please don't quote me - I'm sure there should be a LOT more). Not exactly a good statistical sampling, and certainly not enough to base an entire philosophy of relationships on. If you were completely satisfied with your relationships...would you be on this site? Would anyone? Not likely. So you have a skewed perspective from an infinitesimally small segment of the dating population....I wouldn't bank on anything decided here. This is for amusement purposes only.
Krytie TV Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 But where are these "good, solid people" you speak of? I haven't found any. I still believe 99% of people respond to games, whether they admit to it or not. It makes me think it's something intrinsic in our nature as human beings. Maybe you're not meeting or attracting them because of the games you play. That would be the logical answer.
Author shadowplay Posted October 30, 2007 Author Posted October 30, 2007 Maybe you're not meeting or attracting them because of the games you play. That would be the logical answer. Have you ever been in a healthy, long term relationship where you were completely in love with a woman who equally returned your affections?
Krytie TV Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Have you ever been in a healthy, long term relationship where you were completely in love with a woman who equally returned your affections? For the most part yes, I have. I broke it off for reasons that I still struggle with to this day.
Author shadowplay Posted October 30, 2007 Author Posted October 30, 2007 For the most part yes, I have. I broke it off for reasons that I still struggle with to this day. See there you go...I'm willing to bet you broke it off in part because you were freaked out by the intimacy/commitment since she was open with her emotions. You may not even be aware of it or willing to admit this to yourself.
Woggle Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Guys who care tend to get screwed as well so it goes both ways. I am actually with a woman who cares just as much as I do and I admit that I keep freaking out because it is hard to believe it is real but it is. I am lucky enough to have found it and it happened by being myself. Just be yourself and you should find what youa re looking for soon. Believe me there are plenty of men who would love to find a drama free woman who doesn't play games.
Author shadowplay Posted October 30, 2007 Author Posted October 30, 2007 As an "experiment" I'm going to try to be more natural and affectionate for awhile. I really hope you guys are right.
Krytie TV Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 See there you go...I'm willing to bet you broke it off in part because you were freaked out by the intimacy/commitment since she was open with her emotions. You may not even be aware of it or willing to admit this to yourself. Actually, you couldn't be farther from the truth. I had let her in and we were living together at the time. I don't fear openness, in fact I seek it, because I'm very open with my feelings. Fear had no part in it.
Author shadowplay Posted October 30, 2007 Author Posted October 30, 2007 Actually, you couldn't be farther from the truth. I had let her in and we were living together at the time. I don't fear openness, in fact I seek it, because I'm very open with my feelings. Fear had no part in it. Then why did you break things off?
Krytie TV Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Then why did you break things off? I choose not to give the details of that. All I'll say is that it was reasons more important to me at the time than they are now and because I was not quite aware of what I had until I didn't have it.
Darkzen Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 People play games simply because it's their defense mechanisms. Without the games, you leave yourself vulnerable. A lesson we all learn eventually. It's a never-ending cycles of being hurt and causing hurt. I just learned my lesson recently, I left myself completely exposed to my ex and she twisted the dagger. All because it was my first relationship and she had already been hurt by someone else. So she played the games that she learned... cheating, lying and being emotionally detached. When I first met her, I took her by surprise, before she could get her defenses up. I disarmed her with my innocence and openness. I saw a side of her that I fell in love with. A few days later, someone pointed out that she was falling for me and the defenses came up. It took me 9 years to realize that those defenses will never come down... it's how she copes and survives, in a world full of pain. She even said to me when we broke up, "I can't be the person you want me to be". It took her 9 years to figure this out. I stuck around because I felt she was trying to be a better person... it's just not in her any more. She beat herself up for the things that she did to me, to the point that I became the symbol of why she felt bad all the time. LOL, just had an epiphany as I wrote that... I think that I now understand her reasons. Well part of her reasons, I'm also sure that she didn't want to move out of her hometown. Combine those reasons and it pushed her past her breaking point. Anyways, you can only turn the other cheek so many times. Being vulnerable isn't something people can deal with after they've been hurt, propagating the cycle. It's a problem that can only be fixed by people putting yourself out there to break the cycle, although very few are willing to take the risk. Vengeance isn't the answer (which I'm guilty of), but I don't believe walking away (which I'm also guilty of) is either. I guess I got into a little rant... basically I think games are required to a certain degree, but they've become a shadow of what they're meant to be. Relationships have become a bastardization of what they're supposed to be IMHO... it's now usually about a power struggle of some type. We've lost the concept of community, in favor of individualism... I feel that's the main issue atm.
Woggle Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 I agree that games a defesne mechanism and I am working on trying to take down those defenses in my marriage. In the end I feel that I will be better off.
birdie Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 playing games is a sign of immaturity and insecurity. there are plenty of people who enjoy it and you find them in your wider circle of friends (the girls that compete with you for example) and you find them at work (the more nasty ones that back-stab you). it is the same everywhere and the same tactics apply as in friendship. ideally you have a small circle of trusted friends you can talk to about absolutely anything and you have a bigger circle of acquaintances that you don't trust entirely. some of these you may or may not end up build something with. you select the quality ones carefully. same rules apply for relationships/dating.
BlueEyedGirl Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Sadly, you are right Shadowplay. All the men I couldn't care less about and treated badly, even if I dated them for a short time only are still after me. Every men I genuinly cared for, invested all I had and was open with my feelings and actions to show my feelings, treated me like dirt and broke my heart. I'm starting to think that if I want nice stable relationship it's going to be with someone I don't really love.
Darkzen Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Sadly, you are right Shadowplay. All the men I couldn't care less about and treated badly, even if I dated them for a short time only are still after me. Every men I genuinly cared for, invested all I had and was open with my feelings and actions to show my feelings, treated me like dirt and broke my heart. I'm starting to think that if I want nice stable relationship it's going to be with someone I don't really love. Love is built one brick at a time in a relationship. Being "in love" is nothing more than a chemical reaction in the body. You may find a stable relationship with someone that you love, but aren't "in love" with. Let's face it, when you're "in love", you're not really in your right mind anyways. It's kind of like a long term set of beer goggles
BlueEyedGirl Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Love is built one brick at a time in a relationship. Being "in love" is nothing more than a chemical reaction in the body. You may find a stable relationship with someone that you love, but aren't "in love" with. Let's face it, when you're "in love", you're not really in your right mind anyways. It's kind of like a long term set of beer goggles I know but I still want to find both with the same person. I will feel cheated if I end up with someone with whom I never went through "in love" stage.
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