MC thinks we're incompatible?

[LankyGuy]

Hello,

 

After realizing that our marriage has a huge disconnect, I made an honest effort a few weeks back to try to get things back on track with my wife. Unfortunately it's been a very rocky start as she was quickly rejecting my getting close (am I'm not talking sexually) and constantly bringing up the fact that she's been unhappy for 13 years, and has been trying to get the marriage in shape without my help and still resents that. So, this, along with typical "bitchiness", nagging, some fights, etc has set me back several times...she says "get back on the saddle...you may have to kiss my ass for a while", etc. So it's been tough...she does have resentment and I have a hard time giving her the attention the marriage needs when I get knocked down. Plus, I think, "why should I come kiss your ass when you being so disrespectful, bitchy, etc?"...the disrespect, screaming, bitching, is a real turnoff...I never should have let her treat me this way over the years...now she's used to it....

 

Anyways we had a big fight last week b/c I admitted to her that I'm worried because it's been 13 years (of a 14 year R) of her being unhappy, and me trying to change, and I wonder if I'll ever make her happy. Plus, over the years I just haven't "felt" feelings that would make me want to do the things to make her feel special, etc...that scares me. Also she admits that she's stayed by me because of the security, investment into the relationship, my work ethic, etc...not necessarily b/c of me, I guess...she said I haven't given her any other reason to want me...probably true.

 

So we decided to go back to the counselor that we visited a little over a year ago where we had initially met with him a few times and then I did one-on-one sessions to try determine my and her needs and figure out how I can better fulfill hers...basically hers boil down to wanting to feel good about herself and get attention from me. Anyways, my wife and I had a meeting with the counselor late last week. I explained that I dropped the ball last year with doing the "little things" that she wanted and the R is just as bad as ever. I explained how she's not letting go of resentment and it's pushing me back. I explained that I didn't feel close anymore, and that sex has been bad for YEARS...we never talked about things this deeply last year or with previous counselors.

 

So after 45 minutes of mainly me talking, he says three poignant things rather bluntly:

 

1. Yes you have a huge disconnect in you marriage

2. You (my wife) need to be responsible for your OWN happiness first...not his...he should be repsonsible for his

3. To me he said, So you've come to the realization that you two aren't compatible...

 

I told him I hadn't come to any conclusions yet and that's why we were there. It was clear to us that he thinks we're incompatible...it surprised me...

 

He basically told us it's gonna be a lot of work and to decide if we wanted to stay married and let him know next week! WTF?!

 

Talking afterwards, my wife said she was going to say "**** this" to him after the "incompabitility" remark and walk out, but she held it together. She does not want to go back to him...she didn't like him last year either....maybe it's b/c he's telling us things she doesn't want to hear...I don't know. Previous counselors were women and were very soft in their approaches and always seemed to side with her...I guess that's what she wants.

 

So is compatibility really an issue? I always thought we were but I know that we do have issues from the fact that she's a more simple, needy person and I'm complex and independent...

 

Here are some issues we have that come up over and over again over the years...are these insurmountable?

 

1. She has no hobbies/goals except for "me"

2. I have lots of things I want to do in my life...many involve her, but many involve things I want to do...education, learning, working etc

3. She wants me to love and NEED her for her cooking, grocery shopping, and domestic abilities.

4. I'm not a needy person, and I didn't fall in love with her for her cooking and shopping prowess...

5. She hates to read, learn, think, and challenge herself

6. I thrive on the above

7. She wants to spend all of her time with me and wants me to spend all of my time with her (for the most part, but she does do "girls" trips with friends)

8. I enjoy being with her, but I enjoy "alone" time also.. playing guitar, working on projects, learning, reading, etc. when I get time...and she resents this...

9. She has little control over emotion....crying, screaming, tantrums, etc...like a little girl

10. I'm emotionally guarded and very rational...even for a guy

 

Yes, this is my side of things, so it's biased, but you get the idea.

 

I miss the days when we were younger and she was her own person with her own thoughts. She seemed independent and confident back then, but now she seems so needy and shallow at times that it really makes it hard. We have nothing to talk about b/c she has no interests or opinions on anything. I feel like she depends on me for so many core emotional things (her self esteem, happiness, etc) and she wants me to depend on her for shallow domestic things...which mean very little to me in the grand scheme of things. It feels like her happiness depends too much on me...maybe that's why she's so let down by my aloof personality.

 

So I have to call this guy and tell her that she won't be back. I may go talk to him one-on-one (I probably can't tell her that) to see what his thoughts are...I value his opinion regardless of whehter it's rosy or not.

 

Man, this stuff is really hard...

 

Any thoughts on the compatibility stuff?

[Ladyjane14]

She's really only got two choices. She can either enjoy her Resentments or her Husband. She can't do both.

 

So I have to call this guy and tell her that she won't be back. I may go talk to him one-on-one (I probably can't tell her that) to see what his thoughts are...I value his opinion regardless of whehter it's rosy or not.

 

If I were you, I think I'd tell her that she can either continue counseling... or end the marriage. Just because she doesn't like what she's hearing doesn't mean your MC is wrong.

 

She doesn't get to make all the choices here, Guy. A marriage is TWO people. You can opt for divorce at any time just like she can, right? And you've got nothing to lose that's not already lost. So, what's stopping you from getting into the driver's seat of YOUR life?

[Mr. Lucky]

He basically told us it's gonna be a lot of work and to decide if we wanted to stay married and let him know next week! WTF?!

So you (and your wife) are angry at him because he told you the truth ??? Don't you think that if the underlying issues were simple and easy to solve, you would have fixed them in your 13 years of unhappiness? You've got an uphill battle and very tough struggle ahead of you, simply because of the accumulation of bitterness on both sides in your marriage. In light of that, he request that you make an honest assessment of your will to go forward seems like a reasonable thing...

 

Mr. Lucky

[michaelk]

Your situation really resonates with me, on a couple of levels. My wife "lost herself" several years ago when we had kids. Only recently did it come out in the open as an issue we needed to deal with. Now she's going back to school and making friends of her own again for the first time in years, and it's really helped our relationship a lot. We've also had to grapple with my need for "alone time", during which I do my thinking and pursue my interests. It's been a struggle, what with two small children, but she now recognizes the importance of it and gives me space when I need it.

 

As for your situation, the first question I'd ask is whether the MC has said anything you find not to be credible? Do you have any reason to doubt that what he's telling you is correct? Because your post essentially expresses surprise that he told you two you were incompatible, then goes on to list some of the incompatibilities! Sounds like he's hit the nail on the head and you know it. If so, I'd stick with him. So your wife doesn't like what he's saying. You can't fix deep problems like yours by running away from them. And if she won't go, the you need to keep going for individual counseling so you can get your head straight about what you want to do with your life and your marriage.

 

As far as your incompatibilities go, they sound pretty real to me. Given that you're the type of person who needs intellectual stimulation, it's hard to be married to someone who provides you with none. Not that she needs to be a PhD or anything, but she should be able to discuss her thoughts on something other than housekeeping with you. Otherwise, she's not really your life partner, is she? Sure, she provides you with your domestic needs, and you provide her with security, but what do you give each other as human beings??? A spiritual connection? Friendship? A good working partnership?

 

All I've heard you say that you share is resentment. You haven't even felt those things that would make you want to meet her needs. So what exactly do you have?

[Trialbyfire]

While I'm not certain if the MC intended to do this but has his comment caused both of you to displace some of the anger/resentment for each other, towards him, thus allowing you to bond a little against the greater enemy and perhaps have the opportunity to communicate a little more effectively with each other?

[LankyGuy]

Well, I had nothing against what the counselor said...I value his opinion...I was just surprised that he was so blunt...I'd like to go back to get his feeback. I happen to give advice bluntly too, so I appreciate that when it comes from others...I don't need people blowing smoke up my ass...

 

Now my wife and I just had another fight and she forbade me to go back to the counselor. She doesn't want to return to him, so I said, "Fine, I'll go by myself and we can talk about things that I need to address..." Well, she freaked out and said that I'm disrespecting her by going to him b/c she thinks he's an ******* and doesn't know what he's talking about. She also admitted at one point last week that she thinks he'll just tell me to leave her :-/

 

She thinks I'm being super disrepectful to her for wanting to go to him and for not changing an old white t-shirt I was wearing during the yard sale we had on Saturday :-/ It's ridiculous...

 

Yes, I never had any balls with her when we were growing up and now I have a fully grown spoiled little girl on my hands...and I told her that tonight. I just worry that she's going to be this way forever now...even her Mom thinks she nags too much :-/

 

I'm not surprised that he suggested that we were incompatible, really. We may be...I've grown up changed since I was 19 and I don't know if my wife has...I'm fairly unconventional and complex and she definitely trys to fit me into a round domestic hole at times. It makes it challenging. She says that she loves that I can do the things I do ( fix houses, cars, invest, make money, etc) but it seems like it's only if it's convenient to her....I had to spend a lot of time bustin' my butt to learn that stuff.

 

We have a lot of things to deal with and reading the freakin' Dr. Phil book isn't going to do it....now I have to figure out what to tell this counselor tomorrow when I call him to cancel. I'm thinking of just moving the appt to another time that my wife doesn't know about and meeting with him. She and I can go to another MC if she wants...I'm sure she'll want it to be a warm nurturing lady that tells us to do communication exercises. Man, I wish I had some beer in the house :-/

[Krytie TV]

Speaking as a counselor (not marriage, though I've done it). I see NO problem in what he said. He didn't say you were incompatible, he told you what his perception of what you were saying was and you clarified. That is a very common therapeutic practice and if it made you and your wife uncomfortable, good. In order to engage in therapeutic process, people need to feel uncomfortable. If you're always comfortable, then there is no trigger for change.

 

If you want a therapist who will tell you all that you want to hear, you'll achieve nothing and might as well send me the monthly check, because I'll get more for the money than you will. You and your wife should use the fact that you "united" over what you heard as a strength. You don't see it, but he challenged you and it brought the two of you together.

 

Just know that counseling is supposed to be uncomfortable. Discomfort elicits change.

[Ladyjane14]

....now I have to figure out what to tell this counselor tomorrow when I call him to cancel. I'm thinking of just moving the appt to another time that my wife doesn't know about and meeting with him. She and I can go to another MC if she wants...I'm sure she'll want it to be a warm nurturing lady that tells us to do communication exercises.

 

Hmmm.... You realize, of course, that you're on The Path Leading to Resentment, don't you?

 

You can't control your wife's resentments. We each choose the behaviors which lead us there. IOW, in any given compromise, you have a choice to make as to whether you're going to give more than you can afford to spare. When you give as much as you can, without building resentment, you're on the fast-track to a happy relationship. But when you give more than what you feel is legitimately your share... resentments accumulate. So you see... YOU are in control of what you give in a compromise situation, hence the accrued resentments are YOUR CHOICE.

 

You have to pick your battles, Guy. You're unhappy with the state of your relationship, and you have been for some time. You know that some lukewarm counselor, patting your wife's hand and whispering platitudes, is NOT going to achieve the desired results. Meantime, in order to save your marriage, you're reduced to SNEAKING out to see the guy you believe will ask the hard questions. Now, how can you possibly avoid building resentment under those circumstances?

 

You're very worried about your wife's outward displays of anger. But man, the bigger problem, IMO, is the simmering rage a person experiences when they feel minimized by their mate. THAT's what will eventually dissolve your marriage.

 

Yeah, if you go to the mat on this... your wife might choose "The Path Leading to Resentment" for herself. In light of your previous posts, odds are she will.

But...it IS her choice. The possibility exists that she might choose to pony up her cooperation with a happy heart. As of right now though, you're deciding FOR HER by electing to bear the brunt yourself. So, even though the odds are that she'll choose poorly and fail to impress you, you're taking that slim choice away.

 

 

 

p.s. Never forget that you PROTECT your marriage when you refuse to allow your mate to hurt you. When you let your wife hurt you... she hurts herself as well, and vice versa. In partnership, damage inflicted upon one, lands on both.

[LankyGuy]

Krytie, thanks. I don't want a counselor to make me feel warm and fuzzy...I want to dig down to the root of the problem. I told my wife before we went, that this session will not be a walk in the park. We came out of there very stressed...I think that's a good thing. With previous counselors over the years, the sessions didn't evoke much emotion other than my wife crying.

 

LJ, yes I probably am on the path to resentment. I know that it's not a good thing. If you think it's a bad idea that I go see him alone, then it probably is. We'll try someone else together. She has said a few times that maybe we can do this without a counselor...I don't agree...she thinks the relationship problems are 80% or more my fault...I think there's more to it than that.

 

Thanks for your help...

[Kenyth]

First off, a marriage counselor won't see you alone for individual counseling. It's a conflict of interest. So you won't be able to go without your wife.

 

Second, the "Decide if you want to stay married. Let me know next week." is the first tactic in all marriage counseling. So many people (almost all) want to go into a counselor and be told that they are the righteous one, and the other is the wrong misguided person who needs to clean up their act. Sorry, that's your lawyers job, not the MC's. Deciding what's right and wrong for the couple is the couple's job. If you expect your spouse to be told they are wrong and for them to suddenly become submissive and receptive to your gospel of truth, you need to take a reality pill.

 

It starts off like this because the first step in helping your marriage is simple, but usually the hardest to surmount. You have to BOTH decide you WANT to work on things and also have to decide to BOTH work towards a relationship REGARDLESS of who you think is right and wrong. You also have to realize that you can't control your spouse, and that they have to decide thier own path. You can't force them to make a certain decision, but you also can't be responsible for the decision they make. You just have to respect it and deal with it in the manner you see fit.

[Ladyjane14]

LJ, yes I probably am on the path to resentment. I know that it's not a good thing. If you think it's a bad idea that I go see him alone, then it probably is.

 

Nope. I wasn't clear enough and you're misunderstanding me, Guy.

I think you ought to stand on what you believe here. Meet the conflict. Tell her that you want to hear this MC out and that you want her to go with you. If she refuses, go alone... but NOT behind her back. Tell her straight up what you're doing and why you're doing it. Share your REAL feelings.

[michaelk]

You can't control your wife's resentments. We each choose the behaviors which lead us there. IOW, in any given compromise, you have a choice to make as to whether you're going to give more than you can afford to spare. When you give as much as you can, without building resentment, you're on the fast-track to a happy relationship. But when you give more than what you feel is legitimately your share... resentments accumulate. So you see... YOU are in control of what you give in a compromise situation, hence the accrued resentments are YOUR CHOICE.

 

This is very insightful LJ. I'll definitely put this to use in my own relationship!

[Krytie TV]

First off, a marriage counselor won't see you alone for individual counseling. It's a conflict of interest. So you won't be able to go without your wife.

 

That is absolutely not true. It's not a conflict of interest, it's therapeutic engagement. A good counselor will use information from individuals with grace and apply them to the couple setting in a very strategic way.

[michaelk]

Now my wife and I just had another fight and she forbade me to go back to the counselor. She doesn't want to return to him, so I said, "Fine, I'll go by myself and we can talk about things that I need to address..." Well, she freaked out and said that I'm disrespecting her by going to him b/c she thinks he's an ******* and doesn't know what he's talking about. She also admitted at one point last week that she thinks he'll just tell me to leave her :-/

 

So her issue with the MC is that she fears he does know what he's talking about, and that he'll tell you guys you need to split up. Perfectly understandable. She should be afraid. But this is all the more reason you two need to go back to him. Otherwise, you're just avoiding dealing with your marital problems.

 

You know, my wife had exactly the same fear when we first went to MC. Once she saw that he was not going to ambush her, tell her it was all her fault and to get a divorce, she relaxed an came to like him quite a bit.

 

Remember - the MC can't make you do anything. He can only give you his opinion. It's up to you to decide what to do with that.

 

Yes, I never had any balls with her when we were growing up and now I have a fully grown spoiled little girl on my hands...and I told her that tonight. I just worry that she's going to be this way forever now...even her Mom thinks she nags too much :-/

You know that stereotype of husbands that has us tiptoeing around our wives in order to keep from ending up in the doghouse? We've all heard it used time and again in standup acts and sitcoms on TV. The reason it's funny is because it's true! So many of us "handle" our wives by telling them what we think they want to hear - and why? Because we don't want the emotional response we'd get otherwise. Many men, myself included, are not equipped to deal with it.

 

In my experience, this approach seems to make things easier, but in the long run is so much more harmful. I think you're now seeing what happens after many years of letting this build up. You don't have open communication, she doesn't understand or value your wants and needs, and you've come to view her as someone you have to put up with rather than as your partner.

 

Do yourself a favor and stop this. The only thing you have control over is how you act in the relationship. Your actions are in part responsible for getting you to this low point. Now vow to make it better by not perpetuating the coddling and by opening up and being true to who you are. As for how she will react, that is not in your control - it's in hers, and you aren't responsible for it. When you're open and honest, she can choose to respect who you are, or she can throw a tantrum to try and make you act as she wants. But she can't make you do anything. Only you can choose whether to bow to the pressure she puts on you.

 

If I were you, I would stick to my guns and go for counseling. Tell her that she's disrespecting you for not allowing you to deal with your personal issues in the way you need to. And that if she wants to save the marriage, she should join you. What's the worst that could happen? She's not going to divorce you over counseling. Or if she does, then you two needed to split anyways.

[hiswife]

Wow. This hit really hard with me. I just finished writing my own thread (standing in the way of his dreams). I feel that you are discribing mine and my husband's relationship. We also got married at a young age 5 years ago. Although when we were first together...he was the needy one. Wouldn't let me have my friends. Wouldn't let me go out and enjoy myself. Now that he has gotten me under his belt and under his control...he decides that he needs to get a life and so should I. For five years...he and my kids have been my life. I am a stay at home mom. That is what I wanted in life. Now he has a career and needs his "alone time". But what about MY alone time. I don't ever get alone time. I don't have any friends now because of him.

I'm trying to understand where he is coming from. It is hard when for so long, he wanted our relationship just based on us and the kids. I have grown custom to that.

I am trying to give him his alone time. I'm trying to be mature about this, and I'm trying not to be a bitch all of the time. It is hard though when it seems like he is always putting himself first.

 

I'm confused too. I sound just like your wife. And honesly, I don't want to be that person. I don't want to be a bitchy, whiney, emotional, crazy wife (I'm an not at all saying that about your wife!)...just don't know how to change.

[Kenyth]

That is absolutely not true. It's not a conflict of interest, it's therapeutic engagement. A good counselor will use information from individuals with grace and apply them to the couple setting in a very strategic way.

 

It must depend on the counselor then. Our's wouldn't see us individually.

[LankyGuy]

Ladyjane...I understood you...I knew that you meant not to go w/o telling her...my answer was just a little terse. At this point my wife WILL NOT allow me to go to the counselor alone. Maybe she'll go together with me at some point...I talked to him today when I canceled and he said he thinks that she has some things she needs to realize if we want this to move ahead... I gave him some of my thoughts on the matter and he agreed.

 

BTW, I worked with him one-on-one last year...he's fine with it...esp. in helping me deal with my issues that pertain to the relationship. My wife assumes that we were bashing her...not the case.

 

Michael, yes, sometimes my wife seems Debra on Everybody loves Raymond and sometimes like Carrie on King of Queens...makes great comedy but it's not good for closeness in a relationship. Other times she acts like a spoiled brat. She's higher strung and more aggressive than I am so I take a lot of the crap.

 

Hiswife, yes your description sounds very much like my wife...at times. To her friends and most of her family she seems like she has it all together...but she loses contgrol with me. When the going gets tough, sometimes she crashes and it's not pretty...she loses complete control of her emotions and it justputs more distance in the relationship. Grown women AND men, both, should have control of their emotions. I do wish my wife were more rational...I don't see that ever happening though...unfortunate, because a lot of problems stem from this.

 

As far as dreams...my wife gave me an ultimatum when I was in graduate school NOT to go on to pursue a PhD in biology or she'd leave. Because I felt that my marriage had to come before my career, I gave in and stopped with an M.S. For nearly 10 years now I've taken a lot of slack from her for "choosing the wrong field" and "not making enough money"...I have a career that is admirable to most people and is something that I really enjoy and find very challenging. It's a shame that it doesn't pay enough for her needs. She's a teacher...I could easily say the same thing about her career choice, but I don't...she loves it and it's all she knows. I'm fine with that...we're doing fine financially...esp with the 9 investment properties we acquired over the last 4 years...but it's never enough for her.

[michaelk]

To recap:

• She will not allow you to go to the counselor alone.
  
• She gave you an ultimatum not to pursue your PhD.
  
• She complains that you're in the wrong field, when you're doing something you enjoy.
  
• She says you don't make enough money, but isn't giving up her teaching career to make more herself.

Remind me why you want to save this relationship? I'd never stay in a marriage where I was so blatantly disrespected by my wife. Hell, forget respect, I haven't heard a thing that sounds as if she even loves you.

[LankyGuy]

Yes, to all of those. Of course I'm hurt and feeling resentment, so I'm citing all the negative aspects of her personality. The good things....

 

- She puts me first to almost everything else in her life

- She's thoughtful and lets me know she cares...does all those little things

- She's wonderful to my family and my extended family...step and half siblings, aunts uncles, grandparents etc...they LOVE her...some probably love her more than they love me

- She will be a great mother

- She's very domestic and faithful

 

The bad things are that she is almost dependent on me for her happiness and self worth...she said she'd die if I left her. I know she'd feel like a shell of a woman if I did. Also, she cannot STAND that I have so many things that I want to accomplish, learn etc. She wants me to herself and she feels as though these things compete with her time with me...high maintenance, I guess.

 

My family would probably want to disown me if I didn't get this worked out. Unfortunately they don't see the side of my wife that I do...they'd be shocked if I videotaped some of the tantrums and fights. But if I ever have to make that decision, I'll just have to plan to deal with the backlash from my family...but my family will eventually stick by me regardless...

[michaelk]

Thanks for providing some positives to balance the negatives.

 

- She's wonderful to my family and my extended family...step and half siblings, aunts uncles, grandparents etc...they LOVE her...some probably love her more than they love me

 

This should have no bearing on whether you stay with her or not.

 

- She will be a great mother

You said 'will' rather than 'would'. Does this mean you're expecting a baby? Or are in the process of trying to have kids?

[lost4ever]

Your W sounds like my H, in both the good and bad...and with what she would not "allow" you to do...our MC kind of said the same thing (though not as blunt) however he did tell my H that he didn't love me, he was obsessed with me. Now if you are anything like me, I believe that your wife acts this way because you don't let her into your life, she feels that everytime you get a new goal or "idea" it is one more thing for you to focus on besides her (this is how my H felt)....sometimes it is about being uncompatable...IMO

[LankyGuy]

Yes, after 3 years of rough fertility issues, we have a baby on the way...13 weeks pregnant. A surrogate is carrying it for us...my wife's eggs are fine...she's not a candidate to carry a baby due to other health reasons...our bun in someone else's oven.

 

Yes, it's now very complex...one of the reasons I'm trying to get this straightened out now.

[LankyGuy]

Your W sounds like my H, in both the good and bad...and with what she would not "allow" you to do...our MC kind of said the same thing (though not as blunt) however he did tell my H that he didn't love me, he was obsessed with me. Now if you are anything like me, I believe that your wife acts this way because you don't let her into your life, she feels that everytime you get a new goal or "idea" it is one more thing for you to focus on besides her (this is how my H felt)....sometimes it is about being uncompatable...IMO

 

Yes, this sounds like us exactly. I can see an obsession here too. I do try to let her in...she just wants "me", though...yes, according to her, the goals are always just another thing that takes me away from her.

 

I don't want her to dote on me...just engage me...that's all. I want her to be her own person too...it brings more to the relationship.

[lost4ever]

Well guess what, Your goals really don't matter now...

 

I don't mean to be rude, but don't you think you two should have straighten things out before having a child???? Why do you think it is fair to bring a child into this mess you call your relationship

[LankyGuy]

The bone she had to pick tonight is that tomorrow night I have guitar lessons and I won't be able to give out trick-or-treat candy with her. She's really upset about it. I told her I'm not gonna cancel...it's not like we have a kid and I'm missing their trick-or-treat night. She didn't like that...I don't get it. She's not a kid...and she can have a friend over to give out candy with...

 

Sorry, I'm just venting now...this is probably not helping anything.