complicatedlife Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 Continuation to my ongoing saga.... One of us needs to be strong enough to let go because you just cannot work on a marriage and still be in contact with OW (not even sure that that's what I am), right? At the end of a completely non-platonic conversation, I just came out and told him that even though it's hard for me, that maybe it's better for him to cut all ties to me if he really wants to give his marriage a 100% chance. He asked for a day to think, then contacts me saying that he wants and needs to continue some form of contact with me, that I need to go after the things I want and need in my life; but if God wills that there be more between us, then that's how it will be, but take care of myself first. WHAT?? Totally lost on that one. I know I am probably the one who needs to turn my back, but it is so hard to do that to someone you care about who is telling you that they need you. What do you guys think - double talk, more confusion? I am so lost.
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 1. One of us needs to be strong enough to let go because you just cannot work on a marriage and still be in contact with OW (not even sure that that's what I am), right? 2. He asked for a day to think, then contacts me saying that he wants and needs to continue some form of contact with me, that I need to go after the things I want and need in my life; but if God wills that there be more between us, then that's how it will be, but take care of myself first. 1. Right. 2. Translation: I need to have contact with you, because I do not want to give 100% to my marriage. I say that I want you to do what makes you happy so that you won't hold me responsible for your unhappiness, and so that I appear to have your best interests in mind. If I can get over these guilty feelings, and I feel completely sure that being with you won't interfere with my marriage, I will take our relationship further. Take care of yourself first, but understand that I don't really mean that. I am only saying it so that it appears that I care about your well being, and if you do end up with another man you can be sure that I will find a way to emotionally blackmail and punish you until you do what I intend, rather that doing what I say.
reboot Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 It's pretty simple. He wants both of you. He doesn't want to choose.
KATANYA Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 Agree with Reboot.....he's not prepared to choose so you are going to have to do that for the both of you and then be prepared...he is not ready to let go just yet. The question is, are you?
Author complicatedlife Posted October 28, 2007 Author Posted October 28, 2007 1. Right. 2. Translation: I need to have contact with you, because I do not want to give 100% to my marriage. I say that I want you to do what makes you happy so that you won't hold me responsible for your unhappiness, and so that I appear to have your best interests in mind. If I can get over these guilty feelings, and I feel completely sure that being with you won't interfere with my marriage, I will take our relationship further. Take care of yourself first, but understand that I don't really mean that. I am only saying it so that it appears that I care about your well being, and if you do end up with another man you can be sure that I will find a way to emotionally blackmail and punish you until you do what I intend, rather that doing what I say. That was hard to read, but probably true. However, I'd just like to point out that we are NOT seeing each other and have no plans to do so. You don't think that his concern could possibly be legitimate?
Author complicatedlife Posted October 28, 2007 Author Posted October 28, 2007 May I pose the same question to the two of you? If we are not seeing one another and there are no plans to do so...just email and maybe talk once per week, could his concern and care be legitimate? It would be one of the most difficult things to do, because he really and truly has been a friend from the beginning. But, if it's better to have absolutely no contact, I will have to somehow find the strength to do it. One friend who knows the situation has advised me to do NC and that will tell me and him who/what he really wants. Does this sound like good advice?
reboot Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 Of course his care and concern could be legitimate. Just because he wants to stay with his wife doesn't mean he can't care about you too. Even cheating louses have feelings. He says he wants to work on his marriage, but you're wise enough to know he can't do that with you in the picture. You're the one acting like a grown-up here. Yes, if you have any interest in being with him, exclusively, then the only thing to do is shake the tree (NC) and see if he falls out. If you let him have both of you, he'll probably continue to do so.
nadiaj2727 Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 Yes, you're right, it's double talk because how can he say he cares about you and then ask you to stay waiting in the wings while he tries to see if he can work on his marriage (yet still stay in contact with the woman he cheated with)? That is not fair to you. He is telling you he is working on his marriage and yet he is asking you to stay in contact with him and saying that perhaps the two of you will work out (if his marriage doesn't!!) in the future, thus stringing you along, giving you hope, just in CASE he can't do what it takes to make his marriage work. Complicatedlife, let me just ask you: Is this a man you want to be with? This man is selfish and indecisive and he cannot do what's best for either his wife or you. I agree with your friend -- no contact is best. It will be hard at first but soon you'll realize you are SO MUCH BETTER OFF without him. Work on being happy on your own and then you will find a man who is just as cool as you are and who is available to you and who can give you everything you deserve. You don't need this azzclown. I'm sorry to be harsh and I was an OW so I understand your confusion and feelings of love for him, but move on, you don't need him. Let him work on his problems with his wife alone and realize you're lucky b/c you're the one who can go on to have a happier life with the right guy, and she is stuck with that one.
Author complicatedlife Posted October 29, 2007 Author Posted October 29, 2007 I told him I needed to talk with him (so I could tell him I am going to go into NC mode) and before I could start, he tells me he can't have a serious conversation this evening and if I could please wait a day or two....I guess he feels it coming....
Kamille Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 I don't know the full extent of your situation, but I found myself in your shoes over a year ago and actually found the strenght to walk away and go NC. Like you, the affair was mostly over the phone and email. Walking away was one of the best decisions I ever made for myself. It doesn't matter whether or not his feelings are legitimate as long as he is also trying to work on his marriage. This much you've already figured out. Take care of yourself and make your well-being and happiness your priority.
White Flower Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 Of course his care and concern could be legitimate. Just because he wants to stay with his wife doesn't mean he can't care about you too. Even cheating louses have feelings. He says he wants to work on his marriage, but you're wise enough to know he can't do that with you in the picture. You're the one acting like a grown-up here. Yes, if you have any interest in being with him, exclusively, then the only thing to do is shake the tree (NC) and see if he falls out. If you let him have both of you, he'll probably continue to do so. You know, Reboot, you continue to amaze me with your insight as a BS on this forum. You are so encouraging, yet very frank with OW. You are truly supportive. Does your W know that you post there and how great you are at it? And good luck to the OP for sure. It sounds as though he knows this is killing you, but he holds you at bay at the same time. Just like Reboot says, if you let him have both of you he'll probably continue to do so.
frannie Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 May I pose the same question to the two of you? If we are not seeing one another and there are no plans to do so...just email and maybe talk once per week, could his concern and care be legitimate? It would be one of the most difficult things to do, because he really and truly has been a friend from the beginning. But, if it's better to have absolutely no contact, I will have to somehow find the strength to do it. One friend who knows the situation has advised me to do NC and that will tell me and him who/what he really wants. Does this sound like good advice? complicatedlife, I think his stated need/desire to stay in contact with you is... well, it is what he feels he needs at this point. Whether or not that's good for you, or how it will affect the outcome for the two of you (or of his 'working on' his M) is another question. Or several other questions. I don't think I know your story, so I don't know how likely it is that things will 'work out' between he and his W, or how strongly he feels that working on it will be successful. It's possible he believes he's giving it one last try before divorce... for his own peace of mind. In which case his desire/need to stay in limited contact with you can be seen in very different light than if he really thought it would work out, and wanted to keep you simmering on the back burner til he can talk you round to engaging in a full-blown affair with him again. Just from reading this thread, I'd go for the former, or something along those lines. So, that's from his angle. But what about you... do you think you could handle total NC knowing that he's 'working on' his marriage and there's still a chance for you in the future..? Or is limited contact something that suits you better. Or do you think that you'd be better 'moving on' and forgetting him completely..? When I first came to LS there was a lot talked about NC in order to 'get the MM to make a choice'. In fact, I tried it myself, and did it for 4 months. Looking back I find the whole concept ridiculous. Just who, in their right mind, is going to leave a marriage because someone else refuses to talk to them or engage with them unless they do..? The only reason to go NC is because you need it... not so that he'll do anything. Going NC in order to get someone to make a choice, or to leave, or to change, or whatever, is just manipulation. Go NC if you need to break away from him, or if you need space from him, or any other personal reason... but don't use it to try to control other people (jmho). If you both need/want to stay in touch by email weekly, or on whatever level you feel comfortable with... then just do it.
reboot Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 You know, Reboot, you continue to amaze me with your insight as a BS on this forum. You are so encouraging, yet very frank with OW. You are truly supportive. Does your W know that you post there and how great you are at it?I wouldn't think someone with such amazing insight would get cheated on, so I'll pass on that distinction. *shrug* She's seen me reading posts here, but probably doesn't know, or care, that I post myself. She's not big on computers. I was quick to point out what this site was about the first time she noticed, and told her it's not a "dating site" or anything like that. She just laughed and said that never crossed her mind. She really does trust me completely. How ironic is that?
Author complicatedlife Posted October 29, 2007 Author Posted October 29, 2007 complicatedlife, I think his stated need/desire to stay in contact with you is... well, it is what he feels he needs at this point. Whether or not that's good for you, or how it will affect the outcome for the two of you (or of his 'working on' his M) is another question. Or several other questions. I don't think I know your story, so I don't know how likely it is that things will 'work out' between he and his W, or how strongly he feels that working on it will be successful. It's possible he believes he's giving it one last try before divorce... for his own peace of mind. In which case his desire/need to stay in limited contact with you can be seen in very different light than if he really thought it would work out, and wanted to keep you simmering on the back burner til he can talk you round to engaging in a full-blown affair with him again. Just from reading this thread, I'd go for the former, or something along those lines. So, that's from his angle. But what about you... do you think you could handle total NC knowing that he's 'working on' his marriage and there's still a chance for you in the future..? Or is limited contact something that suits you better. Or do you think that you'd be better 'moving on' and forgetting him completely..? When I first came to LS there was a lot talked about NC in order to 'get the MM to make a choice'. In fact, I tried it myself, and did it for 4 months. Looking back I find the whole concept ridiculous. Just who, in their right mind, is going to leave a marriage because someone else refuses to talk to them or engage with them unless they do..? The only reason to go NC is because you need it... not so that he'll do anything. Going NC in order to get someone to make a choice, or to leave, or to change, or whatever, is just manipulation. Go NC if you need to break away from him, or if you need space from him, or any other personal reason... but don't use it to try to control other people (jmho). If you both need/want to stay in touch by email weekly, or on whatever level you feel comfortable with... then just do it. My story: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1347942#post1347942 It's not that I want to do NC, a friend thinks it's the best thing to do to see who he wants. But after hearing your theory, on it, I'm thinking - maybe it IS manipulative. But the other side of that is if I am truly his friend and have his best interests at heart, if he really wants to work on his marriage, then NC is what we should do - not to see who he wants. I'm conflicted about it. He is really a good person. I am not sure why he decided to go with counseling when he was completely against it, but....I did encourage him to go. Probably sabotaging for me, but I felt like maybe it was better for me to tell him to go since he became conflicted about it. If he were to tell me that he needs to do this for the sake of giving it one more try before divorce...that he may see a future with us...and we continue along this friendship only path, I would wait a little for him - he's worth it. But I wouldn't stop living - I'd date if and when I chose to do so.
frannie Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 complicatedlife, I've read your other thread now. I am not sure there's really a hard and fast rule you can apply here regarding whether to NC or not NC. It seems like it would be pretty hard line, given the circumstances. What made you think of it at all, was it reading LS, or is contact at all with him painful, or where did it come from..? I think you do need to play it by ear. I wonder if you've read threads by Old Europe (do a search on LS)? Thinking about your situation it reminds me of her... and she did have success with going NC for periods, putting her foot down with MM and making sure he knew there would be no 'affair'. She encouraged him to sort out his M before coming to her. On the other hand, from what I recall, she was certainly in contact with him for periods of that NC... Perhaps if you searched for her, found if she's still posting (I think I saw something from her not too long ago) she might have some good input for you. Having said that, she's very strongly a proponent of NC for getting MM to shift his bottom! I think we disagree on that tactic, but she may well have insight as I say. The other thing I'd suggest is the book Surviving Your Boyfriend's Divorce... again, do a web search. I've never read it but some say it's useful.
overandout Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 Continuation to my ongoing saga.... One of us needs to be strong enough to let go because you just cannot work on a marriage and still be in contact with OW (not even sure that that's what I am), right? At the end of a completely non-platonic conversation, I just came out and told him that even though it's hard for me, that maybe it's better for him to cut all ties to me if he really wants to give his marriage a 100% chance. He asked for a day to think, then contacts me saying that he wants and needs to continue some form of contact with me, that I need to go after the things I want and need in my life; but if God wills that there be more between us, then that's how it will be, but take care of myself first. WHAT?? Totally lost on that one. I know I am probably the one who needs to turn my back, but it is so hard to do that to someone you care about who is telling you that they need you. What do you guys think - double talk, more confusion? I am so lost. Complicatedlife. I agree with the posters who think that he is selfish and wants you both in his life. I know that you are not meeting up with him, but even him checking in with you means it will prevent you from moving on. He doesn't want to give you up, but he doesn't want to leave his wife. If you do go NC to get clarity on the situation, don't make my mistake and contact him first, because you will go down in his estimation and you will lose your credibility in his eyes. He would probably restart the affair but he will know that you aren't serious about him making a choice and he knows that you won't leave him. So you enable him to have the best of both worlds. Just bear in mind that if he really wanted to be with you he would. You may have to let him go completely to find out but let him come and find you. Otherwise you could find yourself still being the OW years down the line and I doubt you want that. Why would you settle?
Author complicatedlife Posted October 29, 2007 Author Posted October 29, 2007 complicatedlife, I've read your other thread now. I am not sure there's really a hard and fast rule you can apply here regarding whether to NC or not NC. It seems like it would be pretty hard line, given the circumstances. What made you think of it at all, was it reading LS, or is contact at all with him painful, or where did it come from..? I think you do need to play it by ear. I wonder if you've read threads by Old Europe (do a search on LS)? Thinking about your situation it reminds me of her... and she did have success with going NC for periods, putting her foot down with MM and making sure he knew there would be no 'affair'. She encouraged him to sort out his M before coming to her. On the other hand, from what I recall, she was certainly in contact with him for periods of that NC... Perhaps if you searched for her, found if she's still posting (I think I saw something from her not too long ago) she might have some good input for you. Having said that, she's very strongly a proponent of NC for getting MM to shift his bottom! I think we disagree on that tactic, but she may well have insight as I say. The other thing I'd suggest is the book Surviving Your Boyfriend's Divorce... again, do a web search. I've never read it but some say it's useful. I tried to do a search for her story but multiple posts came up - still sort of a newbie here I'll try to do some different searching mechanics for some insight...
Author complicatedlife Posted October 29, 2007 Author Posted October 29, 2007 Complicatedlife. I agree with the posters who think that he is selfish and wants you both in his life. I know that you are not meeting up with him, but even him checking in with you means it will prevent you from moving on. He doesn't want to give you up, but he doesn't want to leave his wife. If you do go NC to get clarity on the situation, don't make my mistake and contact him first, because you will go down in his estimation and you will lose your credibility in his eyes. He would probably restart the affair but he will know that you aren't serious about him making a choice and he knows that you won't leave him. So you enable him to have the best of both worlds. Just bear in mind that if he really wanted to be with you he would. You may have to let him go completely to find out but let him come and find you. Otherwise you could find yourself still being the OW years down the line and I doubt you want that. Why would you settle? Thank you for your input. I am under the assumption that everyone thinks that he will eventually try to start seeing me again...but I don't see it, maybe I''m naive. He hasn't even hinted at it at all.
frannie Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 I tried to do a search for her story but multiple posts came up - still sort of a newbie here I'll try to do some different searching mechanics for some insight... There's a thread she started called something along the lines of OW to W, what works what doesn't and the art of getting a grip or something along those lines. If you search by 'threads started by' you should find it.
Author complicatedlife Posted October 29, 2007 Author Posted October 29, 2007 There's a thread she started called something along the lines of OW to W, what works what doesn't and the art of getting a grip or something along those lines. If you search by 'threads started by' you should find it. Thank you
Author complicatedlife Posted October 29, 2007 Author Posted October 29, 2007 He just told me they've had 5 sessions and it's not working and he's aggravated........I am now afraid of what comes next...
frannie Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 He just told me they've had 5 sessions and it's not working and he's aggravated........I am now afraid of what comes next... What are you afraid of... being sucked in..? Is it possible you could have a policy of no talking about the counselling..?
Author complicatedlife Posted October 29, 2007 Author Posted October 29, 2007 What are you afraid of... being sucked in..? Is it possible you could have a policy of no talking about the counselling..? But, in the end, he's still in counseling and that's my motivation to keep it platonic. Talking about it doesn't bother me, but I wonder what goes through his mind as he realizes that it hasn't helped their major issues. It kinda makes me angry with him - I want to say, "Why the hell do you want this relationship so badly when it makes you so unhappy and you are continually disrespected?" But I did manage to tell him today to get a backbone!
frannie Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 But, in the end, he's still in counseling and that's my motivation to keep it platonic. Talking about it doesn't bother me, but I wonder what goes through his mind as he realizes that it hasn't helped their major issues. It kinda makes me angry with him - I want to say, "Why the hell do you want this relationship so badly when it makes you so unhappy and you are continually disrespected?" But I did manage to tell him today to get a backbone! Yikes! To me this looks like you're buying in too much in the outcome, while talking about keeping it 'platonic'. Sort of mixed messages maybe? Your situation is a really difficult one, trying to balance being supportive of him while trying to guard your heart against an outcome you probably don't want..? I don't envy you. Really, I'd recommend that book I mentioned above. Check out some reviews of it. It is specifically about being in the tricky situation you're in.
Author complicatedlife Posted October 30, 2007 Author Posted October 30, 2007 Yikes! To me this looks like you're buying in too much in the outcome, while talking about keeping it 'platonic'. Sort of mixed messages maybe? Your situation is a really difficult one, trying to balance being supportive of him while trying to guard your heart against an outcome you probably don't want..? I don't envy you. Really, I'd recommend that book I mentioned above. Check out some reviews of it. It is specifically about being in the tricky situation you're in. It's a very hard thing to balance. I told him last night that I can't do it anymore - I want to be supportive, but I cannot go back to the place we were in the beginning - JUST friends. It's not working for me, it's too hurtful, especially after the last weekend we spent a few weeks ago. I didn't dare to do it via telephone, so I emailed that I am going NC. He emails me back saying that he is going to take some time and consider what I have said (it was a super long email that went into detail about how his decision hurt me) and then write me back. But I don't want him to write back because I think it's pointless and just drags it out. Why couldn't he just read that, mentally kiss me goodbye, and let me go?
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