GreenEyedLady Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 What does this mean?! She has NEVER taken one step towards divorce before b/c she doesn't WANT it. And he has NEVER forwarded me an email from her or otherwise shown me any kind of contact from her. Yet all of a sudden, right after I say I can no longer be with him until they're divorced, he sends me evidence that she is moving towards the divorce... and therefore that the divorce is more imminent than I thought. Part of me feels bad for not trusting him that the divorce really WAS coming very soon, but part of me wonders if he's moving it faster now that I left. For instance, perhaps he called her this morning and was bold and decisive with her (for once) and said "You NEED to see the financial planner or do whatever else needs to be done so that we can file", and so then she did and emailed him to let him know. I can't imagine it being THAT coincidental that she would do something for their divorce totally on her own and then email him about it THE DAY AFTER I broke up with him, when she has never done anything like that before. Part of me even wonders if he completely fabricated or modified the email to show me that he really is moving forward (or, she is, anyway...). I know that's a horrible thing to wonder but he's done some manipulative story-changing these past couple of weeks when I'd been TRYING to break it off with him (which is what helped me realize that maybe he'd been duping me more than I thought, all along), and I could imagine him pulling a big schabang like this right after I said no more contact for good, basically, until he's divorced. What do you think this means?? This means that you need to decide for yourself if you're in or out... Are you willing to stick it out with him (D's take time) or are you just done and ready to move on with your life? His W, is really irrelevant...What is your R like with him? Do you want to share your life with him? Does he meet your needs? Stop worrying about the two of them and worry about the two of you...and primarily, worry about you... If you love him and want to wait, then do that...If you're sick of it and want to move on, then do that...Her email could mean absolutely nothing...If so, what does that mean to you?
White Flower Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 What do you think this means?? I think it means that he is trying to keep you like everyone else and that it does sound fishy. Do you have contact with the W? Can you ask her yourself if she sent that email? I would go straight to the horses mouth and find out the truth. He couldn't blame you-he sent you and iron clad document, didn't he?
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 26, 2007 Author Posted October 26, 2007 Greeneyedlady -- I understand your point but it's very hard for me right now to figure out if he meets my needs and whether I want this relationship when the only context I have to go by is while he's still married. In that sense his W is very relevant b/c I feel that the fact that they are still together influences so much about our relationship. We've had a lot of ups and downs and he's acted very insecure, possessive, jealous, demanding, manipulative at times... of course none of these are qualities I desire but he says that the reason he gets like this is because of "our situation", and that if we could be together like we both want, the negativity would be removed from our relationship. He's admitted that he's acted badly but says that's the reason why, and he always said I was "the rock" in the relationship who was patient and kind and rational no matter what. But now I can't be like that anymore because I can't handle the "downs" and the fact that he says they stem from something that's totally out of my control. I don't know if these aspects of his personality will change when he's divorced or if they are just part of who he is, at least as far as our relationship is concerned. So right now he definitely is not meeting my needs, which is how I knew I needed OUT for now. But I don't know if he will be different once he's divorced (nor how long it will take him to get divorced... or even if he's actually getting divorced), so I don't know if I can be IN once I find out, UNTIL I find out. Does that make any sense or am I too F-ed up to think straight? About D's taking a long time... I don't know, I've heard that some states have strict rules but I live in a state where divorces are very easy to obtain, I just had friends who got divorced 10 days after filing and I just checked the law here and there is no mandatory separation period etc. He's admitted that what is taking so long about HIS divorce is that he wants to wait until she's ready to file jointly b/c he doesn't want to have to hire a lawyer and have it contested, he wants it nice and smooth. So he is just waiting for his wife and she is not moving because she doesn't want it. That's the part I have a problem with, because I can no longer put my fate in the hands of his wife.
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 26, 2007 Author Posted October 26, 2007 WhiteFlower -- I don't have contact with the W, in fact she knows nothing about me and she doesn't even know her estranged H is seeing someone else. I know her as an acquaintance and see her fairly often as we all work in the same career field but he and I work at one office and she works at another. I often WISH I could get the story straight from the horse's mouth, but he would *kill* me if I told her about us. I feel so guilty when I see her and sometimes I wish we could just sit down and chat so I could really find out what she thought was/ is happening. I was really trying to think how I could even casually find out *any* piece of information about her take on things (b/c I've started to wonder if she has any idea how close he says he is to filing for divorce), but it's pretty hard to go up to a professional acquaintance who's more than 20 years my senior and say, "So, how's your marriage coming along these days?" --sigh--
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 26, 2007 Author Posted October 26, 2007 Mino -- Maybe there is a handbook. I guess they are all the same, even in different situations. My MM moved out of his and his wife's house and says they're separated, so it's not as bad as in your situation b/c at least I could see him any time I wanted (in hiding of course... never on a normal date with either of our friends, etc.) and I didn't have to go home alone while he was with his W or family etc. But a lot of the tricks sound the same, which makes me think perhaps he was very ready to move out, but not ready to get a D, and too cowardly to tell me that, or admit it to himself or something. I don't know. One minute I get so MAD at him and feel strong for doing the right thing, and then the next minute, like right now, I'm sad and I miss him and I know it's hard on him to not see me, so even though I've been almost hating him lately, I start to feel bad and want to go make everything okay for him. But I know that will not make things okay for me (except perhaps temporarily). I think I'm insane too.
ICallsEmAsISeesEm Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Part of me even wonders if he completely fabricated or modified the email to show me that he really is moving forward (or, she is, anyway...)LOL - that would't be the FIRST time a MM has resorted to something like this to keep you hanging on the fishing line. I know that's a horrible thing to wonder but he's done some manipulative story-changing these past couple of weeks when I'd been TRYING to break it off with him They usually DO. Just the fact that he's been lying (not surprising) should be enough for you to tell him to take a hike. Bad enough he's already a proven liar and cheat by having affairs on his wife. Are you really surprised that he's lying to YOU, too? I mean..really?
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 26, 2007 Author Posted October 26, 2007 I guess the problem is that my heart plays tricks with my head. I'd have the feeling or instinct that he's lying to me --- something just didn't seem right ---but I wouldn't have any foundation on which to back up my suspicion. And then I realized that he had been deceiving his wife and also at times overtly lying to in order to be with me, and telling her what she wanted to hear to keep the peace although it wasn't true... so he was definitely a liar in the sense that he would lie to get what he wanted instead of doing the right thing even if it got him into trouble. THEN I realized he must have been at least deceiving me or outright lying at some points of our relationship too, and I also think that a big part of his deception comes from the fact that he's been deceiving himself and not facing up to reality. And I *have* caught him recently in some outright lies lately, and he STILL hasn't owned up to them. Plus as I tried to break it off with him, the "smaller" lies (in terms of manipulation and him saying whatever it was that I wanted to hear or that he thought would make me stay with him) got more obvious and I would start to confront him with how I felt. Even more than outright lies, what started to bug me were little things that showed he disregarded my well-being for his own, and showed me he is slightly crazy, at least because of the circumstances. For instance he would often call me at 3am (or call me multiple times in a ROW when I was with my friends who don't know about him, or call me needing to discuss emotional relationship issues while I was at work and stressed on a project when he knows I'm a new associate and my career depends on my ability to concentrate on work,) and leave me message that started out "I probably shouldn't be calling you now and leaving you this voicemail, but I just had to get this off my chest...", or saying something and then taking it back right away like, "You're selfish" and then two minutes later, "I'm sorry I said you're selfish, I take that back. Please forgive me, it won't happen again." Sometimes he would say something and then DENY he had said it right after that! For instance I would say, "Well, you said I've only been thinking of myself lately, so that is even more indication that we should take a break and both deal with our own issues without complicating things even more for each other," and he would respond with, "I didn't say you've been thinking of yourself lately. I would never say such a thing!" And of course he had just said that a few minutes ago in the conversation, or why would I have been prompted to talk about it? Is this some kind of personality disorder?? Or did he just do these things because he was hurting and desparate? Do other MMs do this or was it just mine?? Either way, I don't want to be with someone who reacts so negatively when we're having problems or times are tough. I felt he often thought of himself over me, and I didn't think that was fair. I won't be able to see how he acts when it's just me and him until he's divorced. I would be willing to go to counseling with him to work on these issues but it's hard to go to couple's counseling when we can't even be a couple yet!!
GreenEyedLady Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Greeneyedlady -- I understand your point but it's very hard for me right now to figure out if he meets my needs and whether I want this relationship when the only context I have to go by is while he's still married. About D's taking a long time... Ok about the time portion, if one party drags their feet, it can be years... You need to see if he meets your needs now...That's your point of reference...If he's not, there's a chance he never will... I have been in my R for 3 years (almost)...He meets all my needs...He does all the things that a single guy would do...Because my needs are #1...I don't give him the out,"Oh, he's married so i can't expect him to do that." (It probably helps that I didn't know going in he was married, too) I DO expect him to do things for me and the most telling thing is-HE DOES THEM! We are now a partnership, a team...And it's taken a while but we are thte way we are, because he wants "us" just as much as I do...And that desire (committment, whatever you want to call it) is what nurtures the R and helps it grow... If you're really that unsure about how he will be, then I would walk away...
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 27, 2007 Author Posted October 27, 2007 Wow, I admire your honesty and openness. I think we are just different though, as I could never feel complete as long as he's married to someone else. I want to be the only woman in his life. And in my case it's different b/c there are a lot of things we couldn't do because he was married. We could only go to far-away restaurants and even then he had to go in first to make sure no one he knew was in there. That made me feel like a dirty little secret. Mainly all we did is hang out at his condo, which got old after awhile, even though I love spending time with him... I obviously wanted some variety. I'm not sure how it helped you not knowing going in that he was married. Didn't you feel like if he deceived you in the beginning, he'll always deceive you? Does his W know about you? I'd guess she'd have to, if he does everything as if he's not married, right?
GreenEyedLady Posted October 27, 2007 Posted October 27, 2007 I'm not sure how it helped you not knowing going in that he was married. Didn't you feel like if he deceived you in the beginning, he'll always deceive you? Does his W know about you? I'd guess she'd have to, if he does everything as if he's not married, right? Since I didn't know from the start, I have always felt like it's his problem he's married, not mine... And no, I don't feel like if he deceived me once, he'll deceive me again... Kinda funny how that phrase can be changed to include any word... I know him very well now, and he backs up his words with his actions...So I rely on what he does, not what he says...And he's not perfect and I know his faults and I forgive him for it...It seems like a moot point considering where we are now...that is in the past and we are moving forward... I think his W knows now, but is ignoring it...Their situation is not like the M you hear about on LS...
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 27, 2007 Author Posted October 27, 2007 Since I didn't know from the start, I have always felt like it's his problem he's married, not mine... Yeah, I'm the opposite. In the beginning he told me they were separated and mutually wanted a divorce. Therefore I did not feel it was my problem. As soon as I realized his wife did not want a divorce and was not okay with him seeing other people until he divorced her, I felt it became my problem. I guess it's harder in my situation because I know her now and I feel like I should have some respect for this woman that is older than me and a lot more experienced than me and gave 15 years of her life to this man who promised to do at least the same. I just kept imagining, what would I do if she found out or suspected, and came up to me and asked me if I'm involved with her husband. It feels good to know now that I can say NO without lying. I never ever want to lie or sneak around or hide part of my life ever again. That made me feel sleazy and cheap and I'm done with that, so I realized that if I can't tell her (and other people) the truth, I shouldn't be doing it. It does feel really good to say I honestly thought he was separated pending divorce when we got together, so I know what you mean. But now that I know that reality is different from that fairy tale, I can't keep living in fairyland, and in fact, knowing that he lied to both her, me and HIMSELF about what his life is really like, taints the way I thought the fairy tale was. Plus I felt like our relationship was built upon deception and I think he would continue to be deceptive about whatever, just to get his way, because that's how he was from day 1. I don't think he actually tried it (I think he was deluded and thought that since he *felt* separated, he actually was separated), but still, I found facts that were different from what he told me at first, so I feel like I can't trust him not to tell/ show me only part of the truth so that he can get what he want. Thank you for discussing all of this with me, the more I talk with you, the more I realize that I don't want to be with him right now whether or not he suddenly magically gets divorced. I am NOT okay with things the way I should be to be in a relationship, like you pointed out. Thanks.
hollaxatholly Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 I believe that no matter if it was fake or real, he's feeling the pain of losing you. I know you can't see into the future, but how much do you really want to be with him, if he came to you with papers? Some states require a set time between filing and finalizing, even in uncontested. My sister had to wait 1 year of proven separation before her D was final. Could you wait that long? what state is that? I'm just curious to know if florida is possibly one of those states, IF by any chance my MM would ever make a move. I didn't read all the replies but IMO...it could of been real, maybe he didn't share it with you before because he didn't think u were planning on leaving. Also, it could just be a way to keep you wondering and waiting and not leave him. I think, on the safe side for yourself and your heart, STICK TO IT. don't let him keep you waiting. just tell him that's great and to let you know when it is final....try to distance yourself a little bit from him. see what happens. I don't know if it's a PA...or not...but I'd stay away from that, if so, show him your SERIOUS. I'd just try to act like your done, if they aren't done, and wait for some proof...stick with your decision. don't let one little e-mail change your mind. sounds like a setup to me...lol Wow, I love giving this advice....SO MUCH easier than taking it for myself good luck!!
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Posted October 28, 2007 Thanks for the advice. It was an EA and PA but I've cut off *both* completely until he's divorced. I'm being strong (yay and I agree it's easier to give advice than listen to it and follow it. I'm not sure about FL's rules for divorce but you could look them up online. In my state there's no separation period. I've learned a lot about divorce law, yuck, it's quite a pain in the butt. I guess that's the reason marriage shouldn't be entered into so lightly... wish my xMM had thought of that before he got married. Now he's thinking about it all waaaaaaaay too late!
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