nadiaj2727 Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 I'd just posted a thread earlier today about how I broke it off with my "separated" MM b/c we've been together for 8 months and he still hasn't filed for divorce and I'm not sure he was being truthful with me about when they were going to file, or even if she knew they were close to filing for divorce... I just doubted everything anymore and wasn't sure if I was being strung on, and didn't want to wait anymore. (it's here if you want more details http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t133924/) This was last night that I broke it off with him, and I told him he could call me if he really needed to talk, but I would appreciate as little contact as possible so that I can move on with a happy life while he worked out his divorce issues. He asked me if that meant he could tell me about the status of the divorce, like when they file, etc. I was like, well okay, sure, those are important details I would want to know (considering he'd never really given me any specific dates/ stages, etc., in the past, other than saying, "she's dragging her feet and is coming up with excuses not to file, and I don't want it to get messy"... I don't know why he was asking if he could give me such details now that we were no longer together.) Well right after I made my last post, I got an email from him, which was just a forward from his wife (who doesn't want the divorce), who he's been letting call all the shots about the divorce, that said she had talked to a financial planner, which is one of the many things he's said that she's said has to be done before she will agree to file for the divorce. What does this mean?! She has NEVER taken one step towards divorce before b/c she doesn't WANT it. And he has NEVER forwarded me an email from her or otherwise shown me any kind of contact from her. Yet all of a sudden, right after I say I can no longer be with him until they're divorced, he sends me evidence that she is moving towards the divorce... and therefore that the divorce is more imminent than I thought. Part of me feels bad for not trusting him that the divorce really WAS coming very soon, but part of me wonders if he's moving it faster now that I left. For instance, perhaps he called her this morning and was bold and decisive with her (for once) and said "You NEED to see the financial planner or do whatever else needs to be done so that we can file", and so then she did and emailed him to let him know. I can't imagine it being THAT coincidental that she would do something for their divorce totally on her own and then email him about it THE DAY AFTER I broke up with him, when she has never done anything like that before. Part of me even wonders if he completely fabricated or modified the email to show me that he really is moving forward (or, she is, anyway...). I know that's a horrible thing to wonder but he's done some manipulative story-changing these past couple of weeks when I'd been TRYING to break it off with him (which is what helped me realize that maybe he'd been duping me more than I thought, all along), and I could imagine him pulling a big schabang like this right after I said no more contact for good, basically, until he's divorced. What do you think this means??
reboot Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 An email can easily be fabricated. When he shows you notarized divorce papers, then you can believe him.
EnigmasMuse Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 An email can easily be fabricated. When he shows you notarized divorce papers, then you can believe him. I agree. Whose to say that is an actual email from her. Maybe he typed it up from her email address and sent it to his? It is kind of odd that now all of a sudden he is showing you this email now that you wanted to break things off.
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Posted October 25, 2007 Reboot-- that's so true. Even if he fabricated the email in an attempt to get me to think things were moving forward and change my mind about not seeing him anymore, I don't know how he thinks that plan would even work -- he should have come up with a better one. I mean OOOOH, she's seen a financial planner, now you two can have totally separate lives!! No, I don't care about an email about a financial planner, I care about those divorce papers. I'm wondering if the fact that I'm even WONDERING that it's a fabricated email means I've lost trust in him and faith in us and I should just say goodbye forever and move on whether or not he gets the divorce? Or if it's just a confusing time period and I should hold my hopes up a little while longer to see if he is really serious about getting divorced quickly.
Mino Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 desperate times call for desperate measures, I blieve it was a fake, my mm has pulled that one too:mad: Its to buy more time , thats all
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Posted October 25, 2007 EnigmaMuse -- I thought he either could have gotten an email from her saying something else and then changed it, or made it LOOK like she had sent him an email, I hadn't thought of the possibility that he knows her email account password (they've been married for 15 years, after all!) and sent it from her account and then deleted it. That would be pretty risky though, b/c what if she somehow saw that he had been in her account. SIGH!!! It *is* fishy though, and I *know* it's something more than her doing that on her own accord.
bunset Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 I believe that no matter if it was fake or real, he's feeling the pain of losing you. I know you can't see into the future, but how much do you really want to be with him, if he came to you with papers? Some states require a set time between filing and finalizing, even in uncontested. My sister had to wait 1 year of proven separation before her D was final. Could you wait that long?
Trimmer Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 And in the end, whether it's true or not, don't you still want him to work out all his "divorce issues" before letting him back in you life? Take the attitude "status updates are fine, but it doesn't affect our current status; call me when it's over, and I'll believe it when I see it." Or better yet, tell him the only status updates you care to hear about are (1) once they file and (2) once the decree is entered. Your whole point was that you didn't want to become embroiled in his divorce issues - don't let him drag you in, and become his sounding board; don't get sucked bit by bit into the drama - what he said, what she said, what one or the other is thinking, how to interpret one or the other's behavior. You made a sensible choice; you told him: work it out and talk to me afterwards. Don't let him nickel and dime you back into the mess. And besides, if it is moving further along faster than you originally thought, then that should be a good sign for his future: he is taking control of his life and moving on. BUT, wouldn't it be dangerous to "jump back in" to your relationship with him now, just based on apparent "signs" of progress? Stick to your point, let him get past the mess, and don't get dragged back in until it's all over.
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Posted October 25, 2007 Mino -- no way, was it a fake email? How did you find out? What do the MM want to buy more time to do -- more time to try to make W want divorce, or more time to keep OW hanging on? Bunset -- My state doesn't have a mandatory separation period, it's very easy to get quick divorces here. At least that's what he's told me... I'd better educate myself about that to be sure, because, NO, I definitely could not put my life on hold for a year. I guess if we could still have a normal, open relationship and be a public couple, and she knew about us and we didn't have to hide, then yes, because at that point it really IS just a piece of paper. But my problem has been that he can't tell her he's seeing someone else (even after she's ASKED him straight out)... therefore to me they are not even really "separated", because separated people live separate lives and expect that the other person may be dating or whatever else living separate lives entails.
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 I would remind him firmly of your original intent: NC until he is divorced. Period. No 'almost', no 'meaning to', no 'we are going to'. Divorced. No less. I wouldn't read too much into the email. I've heard of MM who faked their W's death certificate.
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Posted October 25, 2007 Trimmer-- Very good point. Part of the reason I wanted/ needed out is that I worried that he couldn't go through it without me being there, and I didn't want to be the cause or an enabler. (Then again, he wasn't going through it WITH me being there, so it was a Catch-22). I didn't want him to do it because I was encouraging him to or even supporting him through it. In my ideal world I would have met him after he had already completely ended his relationship on his own, based on the merits of that relationship and not how he wanted to jump into a new one with me. So now I'm trying to make my world as ideal as possible by trying to step aside as much as I can (although of course I'm already a big part of it, due to our 8-month history). Here's something else: I did not respond to the email, because I didn't know what to think. (I felt like I was invading his wife's privacy... which struck me as funny considering how I'd been sleeping with him for 8 months!) So then he CALLED me and apologized for sending the email and said he's not sure how much he's supposed to tell me, and he only sent it b/c I had said he could give me details about the status. And then he sent me another email about it, and after awhile it sounded like someone OVER-explaining and over-emphasizing something that's not true... or maybe it was just that he felt awkward about whether or not he really should be sharing this information with me after I'd said we need a break. Anyway I think he might be using the "call me if you really need something and, okay, you can tell me about the status of things" excuse as a way to keep in touch with me for SOMETHING, even if it's a one-line email sent by his wife that is somehow related to their divorce.
NoIDidn't Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 I too think it is a fake to pull you back in. Not to make light of your situation, but there is an exOW on another board who tells a harrowing tale of how her MM disappeared and kept coming back, made up emails from his mother to her, and even made a fake death certificate stating that his W had died! You can imagine the shock she felt when she found out how much he was lying. Stick to NC and let him deal with his D like you already planned. It will result in less anger, and possibly more trust eventually.
reboot Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 I've heard of MM who faked their W's death certificate. made a fake death certificate stating that his W had died! Makes me proud to me a man.
NoIDidn't Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Makes me proud to me a man. We are probably speaking of the same story. I read it with complete shock that someone would stoop that low. But on that 'other' board, there seem to be a lot of MM claiming that their W's have severe mental illnesses or terminal cancer. Only for the OW to find out later that it was never the case. That's why I think he is faking it. Its too easy to create a fake email address, send yourself an email from that address, and then forward it to someone else. That's way too easy. And to me assumes that the person that is doing it thinks that I'm stupid or at least not that bright.
bluebluesky Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 I'd like to see the positive in this situation. I think he's reaching out to you and letting you know that there are signs of his process moving forward. In the same vein, this is just a small step in the process. I wouldn't get too excited about it unless he starts showing more progress.
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Posted October 25, 2007 OMG at least he didn't make a death certificate!! I've decided that no matter whether he made it up or it is real (although even if it's real, I think he said something to make her go see the planner because I'd left him and he needed signs of progress to show me... I don't think it coincidentally authentically happened today), the reason he sent it to me was to try to make me change my mind about the break and think, "it's a lot quicker than I thought... I can wait." I've already decided (there was never a question in my mind) that I won't let it pull me back into the relationship, because there could be little things that happen all along until the D is finalized, but that doesn't mean it's actually occurred, and that's all I want. But what's bothering me is if he did make it up, I don't want to be that naive and gullible. I wish there was a way to know for sure.
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Posted October 25, 2007 NoIDidn't -- I know it was from a real email address because it was from her work email account (to his work email account -- which I don't think is the greatest way to communicate with each other but who knows.) That's why I think that if it's fake, she sent him an email about something completely different (or perhaps related) and he just changed the text before he forwarded it to me. I'm torn between wanting to trust the person I love and not wanting to feel duped or strung along anymore. bluebluesky -- Thanks. Maybe he did say to her recently that she needed to go, in part b/c I'd been saying I don't feel I can wait much longer. So if she went and he sent me her email to show me things are moving forward, I can see how that comes from a good place.
Mino Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Mino -- no way, was it a fake email? How did you find out? What do the MM want to buy more time to do -- more time to try to make W want divorce, or more time to keep OW hanging on? Bunset -- My state doesn't have a mandatory separation period, it's very easy to get quick divorces here. At least that's what he's told me... I'd better educate myself about that to be sure, because, NO, I definitely could not put my life on hold for a year. I guess if we could still have a normal, open relationship and be a public couple, and she knew about us and we didn't have to hide, then yes, because at that point it really IS just a piece of paper. But my problem has been that he can't tell her he's seeing someone else (even after she's ASKED him straight out)... therefore to me they are not even really "separated", because separated people live separate lives and expect that the other person may be dating or whatever else living separate lives entails. Hi Nadia, He actually wrote her and sent it to a fake address, I watched him send it, but it was not a real address, Why did he do it. Who know, I guess to show me that he is trying to get out of M. But he is always buying more time, and more time, He is weak, He does different thigs all the time to convice me, but the end result is the same
Mino Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Nadia , your guy could have create a new email account similar to hers, wrote the letter himself, and then sent it to himself, then delete the new account, takes 5 min to set up
NoIDidn't Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Nadia , your guy could have create a new email account similar to hers, wrote the letter himself, and then sent it to himself, then delete the new account, takes 5 min to set up Those were my thoughts. I used to do this when I was working as a sysadmin. Very easy to do. There are even websites that will allow you to create a temporary domain name (the @whatever.com part) for anonymity purposes. Not to feed your doubt Nadia, just saying that its possible to fake even her work address.
quankanne Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 desperate times call for desperate measures … and I think this guy will do anything to keep you hooked into the relationship, even forwarding you "her intentions" about a possible divorce. your best bet is to tell him repeated and point-blank "There no longer is an us. YOU are MARRIED and I have my DIGNITY. Stop calling me. Now." don't even give him a conditional "unless you really need something," because he's going to take that one little statement and find ways to worm back into your life. Until he's legally free to pursue a relationship with you, he really has no right to keep trying to make this relationship viable. You deserve better than being strung along by someone who possibly would rather lie to keep you (and his wife) than to be without either of you.
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Posted October 25, 2007 Mino -- I'd been trying to break it off with him for almost a month now, and each time he would pull a stunt and try to keep me. Once, right after I left his house after saying I needed a break until he was divorced, and he called me saying he had just spoken to his wife on the phone and that she had the paperwork signed and ready to file on Monday (this would have been two Mondays ago... came and went of course) and was anxious to get it over with because she was now "interested" in a man in the next city over. It offends me that he thinks I'm so stupid to think that a 50-year-old woman who had previously been trying to save her marriage of 15 years would be ready to file because she suddenly "likes" some guy... that makes her sound about 16 years old and I think he should give her and me more credit than that if he is going to lie about her and to me!! In the beginning I thought he was always honest with me even if it didn't make me exactly happy. Now I realize he's lied to me and I don't know the extent of it. I DO know that she still wears her ring, his dogs and a bunch of his stuff are at his house, he hasn't told anyone he's getting divorced or even separated except his friend from whom he's renting his temporary condo (IF he even told him the real reason?!? Who knows), he can't tell her he's seeing someone (even after she asks), and no one would ever think this couple was in the middle of getting a divorce like he claims. So, looking at the objective facts, *I* am the one being duped because I am believing something different than what everyone else knows as reality. I even doubt if she knows how seriously (he tells me) he wants to get divorced. I think she thinks they are just in separation mode. I don't know but I am tired of his tricks and that's why this time I made no qualms about it and I didn't let him sneak back in by any of his various methods. I was wondering what new method he would try and I guess this forwarded email is it. Mino I can't take being duped anymore and when I realize he's lying to me and lying to his wife and lying to everyone else, I feel disgusted for ever being with him. How do you stay with your MM who pulls these same tricks?? I admit that when I see him or hear him upset or look in his eyes... I am tempted to get pulled back in, and say, oh my god I love this man and I don't mind going through this hell to be with him. But there's only a certain point I can take, and I'm so proud of myself for being strong and sticking to my guns this time (FINALLY, after a month of actively trying and several months of THINKING I should break up with him but not knowing how to go about it.)
Author nadiaj2727 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Posted October 25, 2007 Quankanee -- you said "You deserve better than being strung along by someone who possibly would rather lie to keep you (and his wife) than to be without either of you" and that is exactly what I needed to hear, thank you!!! He often tells me he thinks he's going to end up alone. I think he is very afraid of that. I guess that's normal after being married for 15 years, but that's no excuse to keep stringing both of us along. If his biggest concern is not ending up alone then he should stay with her, because I haven't even gotten to find out what it's like to "normally" date him and I'm not the one who signed up for till death do us part. She obviously has what it takes to stay with him forever (even after he moves out and tells her SOMETHING, who knows what, about some kind of separation or divorce), whereas at this point I'm questioning if I can wait for him for "a few more weeks" (at last best estimate) to file for divorce so that he and I can begin things the way we should have, as two separate people, without ties to anyone else, getting to know each other without using each other as life support! I told him when I broke up with him that if he really wants to end his divorce he should stop giving his wife any hope or any more time and he should stop being afraid it will become messy... divorces usually are and by waiting until things are "pretty" and she agrees with everything in order to file (which will never happen!), he is not only deluding himself and making both his wife and me give up part of our lives in the meantime, but he is also just being wimpy by trying to avoid any consequences his decisions might bring about.
Mino Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Hi Nadia, are we dating the same mm???? I really think there is a handbook out there for these guys. How do I do it? Good question, 3 years and I think I am insane. listen, deadlines, they fail them. USE YOUR EYES NOT YOUR EARS. believe in what you see ( action) not what you hear coming from there mouths. LIES LIES and More LIES. I am currently in NC, I am sick of hearing all the things he wants, and then going home. I am sick of it. It has made me sick, physically and mentally. Is this NC easy, hell no. My mind, my heart is screaming, but I have to be strong, just have to, cause these B....ards dont know where to stop, they will bring you to your knees, they will hurt you till you bleed, they will stomp on your heart till you are almost dead. just out of their own selfish reasons. Am I angry, yes, and its about time.....
Mino Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Nadia, you will never find out the truth, nor what is happening in his marriage. There are always two sides, and we are only told one part, and that is what Mm feeds us. Is it truth? is it lies? Is it a bit from both? WE DON"T KNOW..... and they would never admit that they would lie. So therefore it means nothing..... He is still at home, or Married ( fact). thats the bottom line, Let him clean up HIS mess first. only then if he does, do you have a chance at a R with him. If he love you he will come through. but he may be a coward like mine
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