silktricks Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Forgiving is a step in the recovery process. Some people cannot forgive their betraying spouse ever or at best not until many years after they have divorced and moved onto other relationships. Some people can forgive the person who betrayed them, move forward and go on to build a happy secure relationship with the same person who cheated on them, that love can be rebuilt and be stronger than it was before the betrayal. Some people feel that only some things can or even should be forgiven, that the amount of forgiveness one gives out must be doled out based on what the "crime" was. Some people feel that anyone who forgives is weak and in need of a backbone. Some people feel that each and every person and situation is different, that there is no "one size fits all" and what works for one person may not work at all for another. That neither forgiveness nor intransigence makes a person better or worse. That some situations cannot be forgiven in one instance, but the same situation at a different time in a person's life may have a different outcome. That all things move and change and shift throughout our lives and that is what makes the human animal so challenging. Which person are you?
luvmy2ns Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Which person are you? I would have to take each situation individually and make my decision based on the circumstances.
bish Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Which person are you? I am the one that feels cheating is unforgivable. However, I don't feel that anyone that does forgive lacks backbone or is weak. I understand all too well the need to want to try to make it work. And I don't believe that the R becomes better than before the betrayal. It might seem that way on the surface, but I think deep down for the person that was betrayed, they are screaming inside. I think there are people, where the R seems better on the surface, where the cheater feels like their despicable ways helped the M or R to become better...thus not regretting what they did. I believe its emotional extortion....some of the betrayed bust their butt to make things better out of fear that their partner will cheat again if every little detail in the R isn't perfect....and the cheater might think they should have done it a long time ago. Here again, every situation is different, but deep down, I think if the R "seems" to be better than before the affair, one of the partners, the betrayed one, is actually reeling inside and still hurting. I don't think cheaters really understand the permanent scar they left the betrayed with. Therefore I don't fully believe that any R will get better after an affair.
nittygritty Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I agree that it depends on the situation. Also, I think just forgiving yourself helps the healing process.
Author silktricks Posted October 23, 2007 Author Posted October 23, 2007 Some people feel that each and every person and situation is different, that there is no "one size fits all" and what works for one person may not work at all for another. That neither forgiveness nor intransigence makes a person better or worse. That some situations cannot be forgiven in one instance, but the same situation at a different time in a person's life may have a different outcome. That all things move and change and shift throughout our lives and that is what makes the human animal so challenging. By the way, I'm this one. I don't think there is one size fits all. I think that some people can forgive in one circumstance during one phase of their life and yet be unable to forgive another circumstance in another phase of their life. I do think that real forgiveness is possible, but I think that forgiveness depends largely on the subsequent behavior of the betrayor and the amount of energy they are able and willing to extend to help the person they betrayed recover from their pain and fear.
JackJack Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Forgiveness reminds me of these two quotes. "The hatred you're carrying is a live coal in your heart-far more damaging to yourself than it is to them." *Lawana Blackwell.* "Anger makes you smaller, while forgiveness forces you to grow beyond what you were." *Cherie Carter Scott*
NoIDidn't Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I don't think that I am either of those people. I mean, I do the situational thing sometimes, but mostly I just forgive and move on. Problem is, too many people equate forgiveness with reconcilliation when they are not the same. You can divorce a wandering spouse and still forgive them. But you will have a hard go at reconcilliation if you try to do it without forgiveness. And that's for all relationships. In the case of a best friend betraying your trust in some kind of way, you can forgive and still not choose to rebuild the friendship. But, back on topic, I forgave my H because with or without him, I didn't need that dark cloud hanging over my head. Another famous quote, even though I don't know by whom is "Hatred and unforgiveness is like swallowing poison and expecting the other person to die."
reservoirdog1 Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I would imagine that forgiving a cheating spouse is a lot easier if they're committed to working on the marriage and making up for what they did. It probably happens faster that way, too. In my case, it took 3-4 years. XW didn't want to fix the marriage. For 2.5 years afterwards, I was very angry and wanted nothing to do with her. I let go of most of the anger about 1.5 years ago, and I think the last little vestiges of it are finally gone. My GF and I had dinner with XW and her BF at their home last weekend, which came together because it was my daughter's birthday and there are kids involved in all of this. The dinner was pleasant and enjoyable, no problems. It felt like "just being at somebody's house for dinner", and not uncomfortable at all. It made me realize the truth of what I'd suspected for several years, that in order to forgive her I'd need to reach a space where I no longer saw her as my ex-wife, but just as another person seeking to have a positive interaction with me. And that's how it felt. I didn't feel any twinge of anger or of any kind of residual "hold" over her. Though the forgiveness is unspoken, I think it's there.
Crestfallen_KH Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I agree, that it depends on the situation, behaviors, and persons involved. I have forgiven my husband for not wanting to work on the marriage, but I have yet to forgive him for cheating on me. It's too soon and reservoirdogs is right - I think it makes a difference if the cheater is genuinely sorry and committed to working on the marriage. I've never once gotten an apology and I'm not even sure he believes that he has cheated. That makes it tougher. I will forgive him someday because I do believe forgiveness is the gift you give yourself. Anger and resentment only harms you, shortens your life span and binds you forever to the person who betrayed you. And who in the heck needs that? I know I'll get there, but I do hope someday that he will apologize. Unfortunately, by the time I get it, I will probably be long into the Acceptance phase and any apology will be met with complete indifference.
JackJack Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 This is just my opinon on this, and I do think it depends on the situation, but I have known people before who have said they had forgiven someone, but never told that person they did. I agree that you can forgive someone and not reconcile a relationship with that person, but I would think if you're going to forgive someone, wouldn't it be best to tell them? Or at least let them know some how? If you just say you have, without telling that person, what good is saying you have forgiven them if they do not know you have?
pollywag Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Forgiveness is an act of selfishness, it is none of the above. If forgiveness was an act of charity and good character, I would like to see someone forgive a child rapist for raping their child. It would never happen, because forgiveness can only happen when there are selfish interests to be had.The only reason betrayed people forgive their cheating spouses is because they can't face life alone they are too chicken to be alone and they are willing to overlook a harsh reality to compensate for the long term reward or having someone by their side. If they had nothing to gain from forgiving, the act would not exist. It's funny how I am reading on these forums all the poetic reasons for why people forgive, when the reality is only one: sheer selfishness.
JackJack Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Forgiveness is an act of selfishness, it is none of the above. If forgiveness was an act of charity and good character, I would like to see someone forgive a child rapist for raping their child. It would never happen, because forgiveness can only happen when there are selfish interests to be had.The only reason betrayed people forgive their cheating spouses is because they can't face life alone they are too chicken to be alone and they are willing to overlook a harsh reality to compensate for the long term reward or having someone by their side. If they had nothing to gain from forgiving, the act would not exist. It's funny how I am reading on these forums all the poetic reasons for why people forgive, when the reality is only one: sheer selfishness. So if people forgive out of selfisness, then those who do NOT forgive, what is that?
pollywag Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 "So if people forgive out of selfisness, then those who do NOT forgive, what is that? ".................................SMART
troutie jr Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 "So if people forgive out of selfisness, then those who do NOT forgive, what is that? ".................................SMART Yes and let us not forget that Forgiveness is about the "Self" not about forgiving another person. Let's face it! When someone takes back a cheating ass H or W the SO is forgiving themself for taking them back! But its easier to say they are forgiving another person because then they look better for it! And No! A marriage NEVER gets better after an Affair! It becomes different. Big difference.
pollywag Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 I agree troutiejr. Check out what I had written in another thread which pretty much agrees with what you just said about forgiveness: We should then acknowlege that there are different degrees of happiness. If people are happier after an affair, I can't imagine what a piss poor life they must have had before the affair. It's all relative isn't it, happiness comparable to what? I suppose if you took a homeless person who slept in their own vomit on a street corner and you gave them a carboard box to live in they could be happy too. Is that the same degree of happiness a Trump feels when they retreat to their dwelling? I doubt it. But a homeless not knowing any different would think it's the best they can feel.
GreenEyedLady Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 By the way, I'm this one. I don't think there is one size fits all. I think that some people can forgive in one circumstance during one phase of their life and yet be unable to forgive another circumstance in another phase of their life. I do think that real forgiveness is possible, but I think that forgiveness depends largely on the subsequent behavior of the betrayor and the amount of energy they are able and willing to extend to help the person they betrayed recover from their pain and fear. I think that a refusal to forgive only hurts the person that forgiveness is sought from... Forgiving someone doesn't mean that you let people walk all over you, it just releases the power of what they did from continuing to hurt you... And you can forgive someone and then walk away...IMHO...
Mz. Pixie Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 I think that a refusal to forgive only hurts the person that forgiveness is sought from... Forgiving someone doesn't mean that you let people walk all over you, it just releases the power of what they did from continuing to hurt you... And you can forgive someone and then walk away...IMHO... This is so true. My stepcreep was sexually abusive to me, but I still forgave him. That didn't mean I had to keep having a relationship with him- but I forgave him for my own sake. If you do not forgive someone who has wronged you- then you are giving power to that person. I figured he'd had enough power over me while I was growing up. And, in most cases while you're simmering with your anger and hatred- the person who you have the anger against is out there enjoying their lives and never thinking for a minute about the situation in the first place.
abeliever Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 I would never forgive someone for "MY" own personal reasons alone. I forgive because of the way I was raised and I know to be right for me! I do for many selfish reasons. I want them to forgive themselves so they may if they want change for the better. Also so my soul does not harbour anger that takes too much energy. I am happy with my ability to not hold a grudge for long. It allows me to experience so much in life. I am grateful for the person I have become from being a forgiver. I hope I never loose this ability. IMO. abeliever
reservoirdog1 Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 Forgiveness is an act of selfishness, it is none of the above. If forgiveness was an act of charity and good character, I would like to see someone forgive a child rapist for raping their child. It would never happen, because forgiveness can only happen when there are selfish interests to be had.The only reason betrayed people forgive their cheating spouses is because they can't face life alone they are too chicken to be alone and they are willing to overlook a harsh reality to compensate for the long term reward or having someone by their side. If they had nothing to gain from forgiving, the act would not exist. It's funny how I am reading on these forums all the poetic reasons for why people forgive, when the reality is only one: sheer selfishness. Actually, I don't totally disagree with this. As far as I'm concerned, forgiveness is largely selfish... as it SHOULD be. In my case, I didn't forgive and let go in order to do XW any favours, I did it for ME, so that I can move ahead with my life without the shadow of the past hanging over me and polluting my life. Hanging on to anger and resentment towards XW would just make MY life worse, and I don't want that. Selfish? Guilty as charged.
Author silktricks Posted October 24, 2007 Author Posted October 24, 2007 I think that a refusal to forgive only hurts the person that forgiveness is sought from... Forgiving someone doesn't mean that you let people walk all over you, it just releases the power of what they did from continuing to hurt you... And you can forgive someone and then walk away...IMHO... I agree. Or you can walk away and later forgive.
SarahBeth04 Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 Forgiving is a step in the recovery process. Some people feel that each and every person and situation is different, that there is no "one size fits all" and what works for one person may not work at all for another. That neither forgiveness nor intransigence makes a person better or worse. That some situations cannot be forgiven in one instance, but the same situation at a different time in a person's life may have a different outcome. That all things move and change and shift throughout our lives and that is what makes the human animal so challenging. Which person are you? THis is me and my husband. We have discussed this at length.
PandorasBox Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 For me, I would have to say I would have to probably forgive someone. Yes, I do think it depends on the situation. I also think depending on that situation I might would forive someone quicker than others, depending on what had happened. I think if you don't forgive it keeps you stuck or tied to the person that you felt has wronged you in some way. I do not think you have to strike up a relatiopnship with the person who betrayed you again, just because you forgive them either. I think some view forgiving someone as weak. But I don't view it like that. It could be said that those who do NOT forgive are weak. I think NOT forgiving is selfish and keeps you behind a wall. I think forgiving is selfless because it shows you're not being bitter about something that happeend that you can not change. That is just how I see it for me though.
Planofool Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 This summer I discovered my wife of 24 years, was having an emotional affair over the phone with a guy in Texas, (1200 miles away). After many months of searching and snooping it turns out they used to date before I met her and that they have stayed in touch through letters and phone calls all these years. I won't bore you with all the details. In some ways I have forgiven her and in others I have not. She has lost all trust with me and I have learned that she is not the girl I thought I had married. She is still a great mother to our three children and in most ways is still a great wife. She has stopped trying to win me over with love and affection, she hasn't done things she promised she would do in our lives to make things better and this is what upsets me the most. I would have a much easier time forgiving her if she made a constant effort to make things better between us. She obviously would like to forget it all happened but that isn't going to happen in my world. I think about it every day. So do I say something to her or do I go on trying to forgive and forget? Each case has it's own circumstances therefore I don't think one way of handling matters fits all.
2sunny Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 This summer I discovered my wife of 24 years, was having an emotional affair over the phone with a guy in Texas, (1200 miles away). After many months of searching and snooping it turns out they used to date before I met her and that they have stayed in touch through letters and phone calls all these years. I won't bore you with all the details. In some ways I have forgiven her and in others I have not. She has lost all trust with me and I have learned that she is not the girl I thought I had married. She is still a great mother to our three children and in most ways is still a great wife. She has stopped trying to win me over with love and affection, she hasn't done things she promised she would do in our lives to make things better and this is what upsets me the most. I would have a much easier time forgiving her if she made a constant effort to make things better between us. She obviously would like to forget it all happened but that isn't going to happen in my world. I think about it every day. So do I say something to her or do I go on trying to forgive and forget? Each case has it's own circumstances therefore I don't think one way of handling matters fits all. i am sorry pof- keep posting - there are alot of folks here who can walk you through your feelings and thoughts. counseling might do you some good... it helps to set your mind in a healthier - more productive state of mind.
Planofool Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Went to a therapist, once with my wife and once without. She did not want to go back and dredge up her past. She has said many times that she needs to go but never does. She thinks it's all better now, I guess. We don't discuss it anymore. She used to ask me if things were ok but she stopped doing that.
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