HeartBrokenInNY Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I've been reading the forum for a few days, and I find it (somewhat) comforting sometimes to know that I am not alone in my situation... I had dated my ex for 13 years when things started to go terribly wrong. I was 31 years old and he was 39. We broke up 3 years ago. At that time in my life, one of my best friends whom I've known for 10 years became very close, and he confided in me that his marriage was missing something as well. I started seeing the MM, my best friend. We were both unhappy in our relationships, and didn't see a way out. After a few months, I discovered my ex had cheated on me a few times (I was faithful up to that point). My MM/bestfriend never said he would leave his wife and 2 kids for me. We were friends for 10 years and he has said there is no reason why we couldn't stay friends when we end it eventually. And I accepted that at the time and took it for what it was. He was unhappy with his marriage (wife was unsupportive, didn't talk/listen to him, didn't return his affections, didn't want to have sex, always complaining, etc), while I was totally the opposite. After a few months, I started dating another guy, and my MM started getting very jealous even though he tried to be happy for me. All this time he said he loved me, he was crazy about me. They make very good money and put away most of their money towards the kids' future. We also happen to work in the same field where everyone kind of knows each other. He has told me not to be surprised if she didn't already suspect (but she was always cordial to me, and she knows we've been friends for a while). Well, at that time, the guy I was seeing, I kind of knew things wouldn't work and it was more of a way to get emotionally away from the MM. But the MM kept pursuing me until I finally gave up and went back to him(MM). AS you can guess, things with his M was not that great then, and he was very confused as well about our relationship.. he asked whether i would be okay to date someone divorced with kids... If he asked me now again, I would have a different answer now... Ever since that time, I have given almost everything, my self esteem, my time, my energy...waiting for him. We used to see each other every day, used to talk for hours on end, we could talk about anything! But then I started saying I wanted more, and I can feel him withdrawing from me. He told me that it was very hard for him as well, and the kids are getting older and he's afraid they might suspect as well. He tells me he is not miserable (not happy, not miserable)in his marriage, and she is a good mother to his kids. He has told me that he loves her, and he loves his kids more than anything else. He has told me he is comfortable. When I try to withdraw, I feel him coming back emotionally to me, but then he feels guilty and tries to limit contact with me. I am so confused. I am not an ugly girl and I have a very good heart and somewhat naive I guess. I don't know what to do. I love this guy very very much and it hurts when he says that if he weren't married with kids we would have made a really good couple. I asked him to tell me he loves me like a sister but he refuses. I feel really bad for doing this to his wife but then sometimes I think she might be cheating on him (one time he saw a text message from another guy saying he missed her). I would do almost anything to be with him, he is everything I would want in a guy. Someone tell me what I should do please... I have thought about letting his wife know but I am afraid of the repercussions. He has made it clear to me that he will never leave them...unless she leaves him first. We can be really good together one day and the next day he will feel guilty and call me and talk like we were "friends." I am so confused. I wish I could see past this. I guess what I'm trying to do is see how I can find a way to get out of this situation.. how to get him to be mine...I know it sounds so naive after reading all these posts. But I don't know how to give anyone a chance anymore. I've been out of dating for so long, I have never cheated on my ex of 13 years before this, and this MM has been my friend for ten years! Believe me, I am not a bad person, just that we've been friends for so long, I don't know how to nor do I really want to stop any contact with him.
NoIDidn't Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Sorry you find yourself in this situation, and with your (former) best-friend at that. He has told you that he loves his W and his kids. He has said that he is never leaving of his own accord. And, what's worst, is when she finds out, you will lose your *friend* forever. He will do whatever he can to hold on to the *friendship* but you will always want more. But ultimately this will hurt you the most. He will either choose to respect his W's wishes to cut contact with you completely, or he will keep you on the side of his marriage disrespecting it and you. Is that what you want?
whichwayisup Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 have thought about telling his wife but I am afraid of the repercussions. He has made it clear to me that he will never leave them...unless she leaves him first. Do not tell her. It will backfire on you IF you plan on telling her in hopes she'll leave him and he'll come to you. The opposite will happen - He'll blame YOU and more than likely your affair/friendship/bestfriend situation will end forever and he'll do all that he can to make his life work with his wife. The thing is, he loves his wife. He may 'feel' that love and intensity like he does with you, but what they share is real, long lasting and forever (weird and ironic seeing as he's cheating on her though). He's told you he isn't leaving her or his kids so now the choice is yours. Either stay and put up with the negative stuff of being the OW, accept things as they are - OR, end it and say goodbye forever - Be with a man who can give you everything, not stolen moments and table scraps of another woman's husband. He isn't yours and sadly, he never will be...I know this hurts to read but you need to let him go and get some counselling to help you cope. Do you want children? Your own family, a house, to build a life with a man? You won't get any of that with the MM.
Author HeartBrokenInNY Posted October 22, 2007 Author Posted October 22, 2007 I have asked him if his wife were to tell him to cut off any contact with me, would he..he said "NO!" If his wife were to find out, no one (not even him) would find out it was coming from me.... i don't know what to do. i feel so weak, i commend those of you who have been able to do the NC thing. i don't want to lose his friendship, but i don't want to lose his love either. i refuse to think he doesn't love me. only a few people know about us and they all say he does care alot about me. it hurts too much to think that otherwise. when he can't/doesn't call time goes by so slow its agonizing.
brothermartin Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I dont get it. If this guy loves you, but he wont leave his wife when hes not happy with her, whats he waiting for? Better yet, what are you waiting for? Hes leaving you stuck in the middle of your love for him and his disfunctional marriage, and thats not fair to you. You could give him an ultimatum, but be ready for whatever he might do. Even leave you. Either way, you'll know where you stand then. I know this is hard, Im sorry for your pain. Im having a lot of trouble letting go of some one right now too. I'll give you a little clarity, if you give me a little hope. Deal?
whichwayisup Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I have asked him if his wife were to tell him to cut off any contact with me, would he..he said "NO!" He says that now, but when facing his wife and having to deal with all this, you'd be surprised how much emotion can make someone change their mind. Also, 9/10 the MM who gets caught all of a sudden wakes up and realizes HOW MUCH he loves his wife and doesn't want to leave the marriage afterall. It's almost like an adrenolin rush, MM is desparate and will do anything to stay at home. If his wife were to find out, no one (not even him) would find out it was coming from me.... Yeah, but you'd know. Could you live with that big fat hidden betrayal? Could you and the MM actually have an honest relationship? Forget the fact that he's married and his kids weren't enough to make him stop cheating, do you believe that IF he ever left his wife, to be with you, he wouldn't end up cheating on you? Would you allow him to have another woman bestfriend? Much different when the shoe is on the other foot... Think about it. i don't know what to do. i feel so weak, i commend those of you who have been able to do the NC thing. i don't want to lose his friendship, but i don't want to lose his love either. i refuse to think he doesn't love me. only a few people know about us and they all say he does care alot about me. it hurts too much to think that otherwise. when he can't/doesn't call time goes by so slow its agonizing. His actions show that he will have you in his life as the OW. He may care for you, alot but not enough to end his marriage to be with you 100%.
NoIDidn't Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I have asked him if his wife were to tell him to cut off any contact with me, would he..he said "NO!" If his wife were to find out, no one (not even him) would find out it was coming from me.... i don't know what to do. i feel so weak, i commend those of you who have been able to do the NC thing. i don't want to lose his friendship, but i don't want to lose his love either. i refuse to think he doesn't love me. only a few people know about us and they all say he does care alot about me. it hurts too much to think that otherwise. when he can't/doesn't call time goes by so slow its agonizing. Of course he said NO. Do you think he would tell you that you won't hear from him? He probably believes it himself right now, but when she does find out, he will be all about helping HER pick up the pieces and only sneaking off to contact you when he thinks the smoke has cleared. I am certain that as you two are "best friends" he cares quite a bit for you. He probably even does love you. But does that justify being in his life in this way? What if his children did find out? He would cut off contact with you to regain their trust and respect in a minute. No man can live without the respect of their children, especially ones that they claim to love more than life itself. It sounds like you are thinking about tipping his W off. He will hate you if he finds out that it was you. His W may more than likely suspect you first just because you guys are close. You may not be aware of the fact that you and your friendship with him have been the topic of many conversations in his home already. You are not thinking straight if you are seriously considering outting the A anonymously. Bad idea. Very bad idea. It will have the exact opposite of what you want. First he will suspect everyone that knows. Then he will suspect anyone that suspects. But mostly he will suspect you. Either way, you are trying to help him make a decision and you will find that his decision will be to save his own a$$ and comfort his W. And I don't think you are ready or even emotionally in a place where you will be able to handle that outcome.
Author HeartBrokenInNY Posted October 22, 2007 Author Posted October 22, 2007 hello BM, your insight would be sooooo greatly appreciated! the prospect of meeting anyone is so scary. i don't really regret becoming involved with him, but i sure wished i played my cards better.. sigh, if i could only bring back the time. but sometimes when i think about it, i do wish it never happened, now i am afraid of how to get out of this without being more hurt than i already am. i know i feel so stupid already but i can't help it. he says that he loves me, (not like a sister or a friend) and he would want to see me happy even if it can't be with him. he says if i am always waiting for him, then how would i ever be able to meet the guy who can offer 100% of himself to me? he says our friendship means more to him than the sex (it's been a few months no sex, only sometimes hand holding or hugging- we both promised we would try to be good).. the field i am working (kind of male dominated place)- everyone seem know everyone else, so i am very reluctanct to date in the workplace... i really don't know what to do. i am 34 years old now, and feel so sh*tty all the time, i miss my old self when i used to be happy and confident, but i know he is not doing it to intentionally hurt me.
norajane Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Step away from the ledge. You have deep feelings for this man who doesn't want to end his marriage. You are wasting precious years of your life on a man who doesn't want to leave his family. You won't ever get these years back. How many more years do you want to be mired in a no-win situation, that seems to have plenty of heartache for you already? Go out with your girlfriends, get involved in activities, join a hiking club - do something but get out of this rut you are in. He sucked you in while you were very vulnerable, and you never got out of it. It's time to put both your 13 year relationship and this affair behind you and start living your life for yourself. There is a future out there with a man who loves you and can offer you his love openly and freely - don't waste any more of your life on someone who can't.
Author HeartBrokenInNY Posted October 22, 2007 Author Posted October 22, 2007 i know what we did/do was/is wrong.. i can't help but feel so disheartened at what i am reading from the replies, but thank you for the words of encouragement, please keep them coming, it does somewhat help alleviate pain (and pass by the time lol). every day is so hard to go through but when he calls or when i see him, it's like everything is fine again. i know i am not emotionally stable right now, and i don't know how to get out of it. i hate to be the clingy type but my thoughts are pretty much dominated by him and when i told him, he said it scares him. i don't know how much longer of this i can take.
NoIDidn't Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 he says that he loves me, (not like a sister or a friend) and he would want to see me happy even if it can't be with him. He is trying to give you an out. He is telling you that he will be happy/happier when you move on in your life without him. he says if i am always waiting for him, then how would i ever be able to meet the guy who can offer 100% of himself to me? Again, the same out. He is telling you that you will never get 100% from him. He has already promised that to someone else (and he's failing miserably there too). he says our friendship means more to him than the sex (it's been a few months no sex, only sometimes hand holding or hugging- we both promised we would try to be good).. He is trying to work on his guilt for when his W does find out. He will be able to tell her that he wasn't having sex with you so it wasn't really an affair. His trying to be good is different from your trying to be good. You are trying to be a good friend to him. He is thinking about saving and salvaging his marriage. I know what I am saying is hard to accept. I also know that it may not be entirely accurate. But I believe it to be far more accurate that what you are reading it to mean. Check out "the Script" if you don't believe me. He has no intention of you ever being anything to him but an OW. Did you have he have something physical in the past? Were you almost boyfriend and girlfriend? Was it always strictly platonic or is this A an outgrowth of old feelings?
upto_here Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I've been reading the forum for a few days, and I find it (somewhat) comforting sometimes to know that I am not alone in my situation... I had dated my ex for 13 years when things started to go terribly wrong. I was 31 years old and he was 39. We broke up 3 years ago. At that time in my life, one of my best friends whom I've known for 10 years became very close, and he confided in me that his marriage was missing something as well. I started seeing the MM, my best friend. We were both unhappy in our relationships, and didn't see a way out. After a few months, I discovered my ex had cheated on me a few times (I was faithful up to that point). My MM/bestfriend never said he would leave his wife and 2 kids for me. We were friends for 10 years and he has said there is no reason why we couldn't stay friends when we end it eventually. And I accepted that at the time and took it for what it was. He was unhappy with his marriage (wife was unsupportive, didn't talk/listen to him, didn't return his affections, didn't want to have sex, always complaining, etc), while I was totally the opposite. After a few months, I started dating another guy, and my MM started getting very jealous even though he tried to be happy for me. All this time he said he loved me, he was crazy about me. They make very good money and put away most of their money towards the kids' future. We also happen to work in the same field where everyone kind of knows each other. He has told me not to be surprised if she didn't already suspect (but she was always cordial to me, and she knows we've been friends for a while). Well, at that time, the guy I was seeing, I kind of knew things wouldn't work and it was more of a way to get emotionally away from the MM. But the MM kept pursuing me until I finally gave up and went back to him(MM). AS you can guess, things with his M was not that great then, and he was very confused as well about our relationship.. he asked whether i would be okay to date someone divorced with kids... If he asked me now again, I would have a different answer now... Ever since that time, I have given almost everything, my self esteem, my time, my energy...waiting for him. We used to see each other every day, used to talk for hours on end, we could talk about anything! But then I started saying I wanted more, and I can feel him withdrawing from me. He told me that it was very hard for him as well, and the kids are getting older and he's afraid they might suspect as well. He tells me he is not miserable (not happy, not miserable)in his marriage, and she is a good mother to his kids. He has told me that he loves her, and he loves his kids more than anything else. He has told me he is comfortable. When I try to withdraw, I feel him coming back emotionally to me, but then he feels guilty and tries to limit contact with me. I am so confused. I am not an ugly girl and I have a very good heart and somewhat naive I guess. I don't know what to do. I love this guy very very much and it hurts when he says that if he weren't married with kids we would have made a really good couple. I asked him to tell me he loves me like a sister but he refuses. I feel really bad for doing this to his wife but then sometimes I think she might be cheating on him (one time he saw a text message from another guy saying he missed her). I would do almost anything to be with him, he is everything I would want in a guy. Someone tell me what I should do please... I have thought about letting his wife know but I am afraid of the repercussions. He has made it clear to me that he will never leave them...unless she leaves him first. We can be really good together one day and the next day he will feel guilty and call me and talk like we were "friends." I am so confused. I wish I could see past this. I guess what I'm trying to do is see how I can find a way to get out of this situation.. how to get him to be mine...I know it sounds so naive after reading all these posts. But I don't know how to give anyone a chance anymore. I've been out of dating for so long, I have never cheated on my ex of 13 years before this, and this MM has been my friend for ten years! Believe me, I am not a bad person, just that we've been friends for so long, I don't know how to nor do I really want to stop any contact with him. Hi HBINY,, first of all i really feel sorry for you that you felt this way..and i hope you can solve this dilemma ,which is very hard and you seem to be really confused with the MM action...i have been in the same situation but the different from yours is i am already out...its not wrong that you wanted more in the R its natural in most people but then the man you wanted more is unavailable we always wanted more what we can not have but you have you set yourself straight what actually you really want but what i can see is you will lose more than what you get the more you step forward the more he will step back ..most of them are the same the guys are unvulanable...or unstable in his emotiuon he can not make up his own mind what he want, why would you wanted him to be yours? the longer you saty in the R you will not find happiness...you can kid yourself maybe ...but not in reality....MM never leaves their W ...he made that clear to you ...my exmm are the same ,,when i step back he step forward ..when i response he said he confused...i asks question why ..he said i can not take it anymore when i said i can not take it anymore he asks can i hang in there ...!!! its just going round and round and round ...the end he goes back to his W for comfort after the break up ,I end up hurt and cry alone like you now....all you need is the courage and strengh ..you can asks miliion people to give you advice but you can't turn to them everytime you needed it you MUST give yourself the power ...to overcome this heart broken feeling ...then from that you can walk in the straight line again...believe me...been there done that same old story again and again..i just don't want you to walk the same path that i did.ANY WAY GOOD LUCK ....
Author HeartBrokenInNY Posted October 23, 2007 Author Posted October 23, 2007 I'm trying to be good too. I'm trying to see him as a friend again, but it's hard. Today he called, as he usually does, and we talk. He apologized and said he's been neglecting me lately, but he said the love is still there. Because I was at work, I couldn't really get into the conversation as I would have liked to do. Tonight, we had dinner. He told me that he has always been upfront to be about where he stands, and he was trying to explain it to me like... he is trying to see me in a different light, trying to be good (and he says I am not making it easier). He said he knows it's much harder on me and he knows it's hurting me and he's sorry. He says he would love to keep doing what we've been doing but when does it stop? Till the day we both die? Till when his wife finds out? Till when I hate him? He says he still finds me gorgeous, etc still attracted to me as he was the first day we met, but if we continue, things will get bad. He said if we can pull this off, there is no reason why we cannot remain excellent friends until the day we die. He says he gets annoyed because there is no way out of it other than to stop what we're doing even though it hurts for both of us. He said he doesn't feel any different towards me but he is trying to control how he shows it. (Like, if you met someone who was already happily married, you would think (s)he's hot but not available, oh well.. He said that is how he is trying to think of me. He's trying to think of me as being in a happy relationship that he doesn't want to mess things up for me (and I suppose, him as well). He asked me to work with him because it's not easy for him either. I feel so lost. Seeing him and hearing his voice made me happy for a few hours, but boy, those words did hurt.
whichwayisup Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 You two can NOT be friends if the A actually does end completely. Being excellent friends??? yeah, maybe for him as he'll have you and his wife in his life! But, what about you? Staying friends, staying emotionally attached to him like you are now will prevent you from ever finding love with someone else. You will miss out... Flip the situation around - You're married to him right now, you're his wife. Imagine YOUR husband doing this to you. Having another woman close to his heart, loving her, desiring her, wanting an excellent "friendship", getting all this love and attention from another woman....Hoping he won't get caught...Sneaking around, lying to you... I hope this stops and makes you think. It's impossible for you two to be just friends after this ends.
norajane Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 You two can NOT be friends if the A actually does end completely. Being excellent friends??? yeah, maybe for him as he'll have you and his wife in his life! But, what about you? Staying friends, staying emotionally attached to him like you are now will prevent you from ever finding love with someone else. You will miss out... Flip the situation around - You're married to him right now, you're his wife. Imagine YOUR husband doing this to you. Having another woman close to his heart, loving her, desiring her, wanting an excellent "friendship", getting all this love and attention from another woman....Hoping he won't get caught...Sneaking around, lying to you... I hope this stops and makes you think. It's impossible for you two to be just friends after this ends. Friends. That word gets thrown around so often. Friends don't involve you in their marital affairs. Friends don't latch onto you when you're most vulnerable after a 13 year relationship ends, and friends don't consume 3 years of your life with an affair when they never intend to leave their wife and children. Friends don't hold onto you when they see they're damaging your life and emotional well being. Friends don't drag you down with them. This guy is not a friend, not to you and not to his wife. He's a selfish, weak child who hasn't been able to man up and face life without two women supporting him for years. You're drowning, and you don't need his dead weight pushing you under further. Push him away and swim up to the surface and breathe in some fresh air. Save yourself, because he's not going to.
Author HeartBrokenInNY Posted October 23, 2007 Author Posted October 23, 2007 You two can NOT be friends if the A actually does end completely. Being excellent friends??? yeah, maybe for him as he'll have you and his wife in his life! But, what about you? Staying friends, staying emotionally attached to him like you are now will prevent you from ever finding love with someone else. You will miss out... Flip the situation around - You're married to him right now, you're his wife. Imagine YOUR husband doing this to you. Having another woman close to his heart, loving her, desiring her, wanting an excellent "friendship", getting all this love and attention from another woman....Hoping he won't get caught...Sneaking around, lying to you... I hope this stops and makes you think. It's impossible for you two to be just friends after this ends. Friends. That word gets thrown around so often. Friends don't involve you in their marital affairs. Friends don't latch onto you when you're most vulnerable after a 13 year relationship ends, and friends don't consume 3 years of your life with an affair when they never intend to leave their wife and children. Friends don't hold onto you when they see they're damaging your life and emotional well being. Friends don't drag you down with them. So could it be that he really means what he's saying? That our friendship DOES mean more than the sex does? We haven't had sex in about 4 months now. When he said "if we could pull this off there's no reason why we couldn't be excellent friends" he was really saying "if we stop the A here and now..." Could it really mean that he knows our A is hurting me (preventing me from being able to find someone else) and that is why he wants to stop? I don't really know how to push him away, it's like for so long he has been there for me to listen and confide in, (we used to confide in each other about our S/O for years before the A took place....) I can't imagine being able to be without him, even if its just as a platonic friend? But I can't forget all the sweet nothings he has whispered to me, all the times he held me, the hugs and kisses, the stuff we had said to each other, all the things we have done in the past 3 years... every time I think of that I get so sad and I'm trying not to think about it. But when I think about it I feel so happy. It's like a bad cycle that I can't quit the addiction to.. I do have to add that we have NEVER spent the night together so it's more like a few hours here and there for the past 3 years. Why am I doing this to myself? How can I pull away not hurting and still remain friends?
NoIDidn't Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 How can I pull away not hurting and still remain friends? You can't. You can't pull away from anyone and not feel the hurt and void that is left. You will have to decide for yourself how long you want to feel this hurt and keep this cycle going. You will come to a point where the pain does outweigh the pleasure. He gets to tell you things that make him feel good because he feels like he is being honest with you. But the truth is, he is giving you the false hope that you can go back to being friends, when you can't. I hope you will consider speaking with a counsellor about this because you are going to need emotional support whatever the decision is that you make.
norajane Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I can't imagine being able to be without him, even if its just as a platonic friend? But I can't forget all the sweet nothings he has whispered to me, all the times he held me, the hugs and kisses, the stuff we had said to each other, all the things we have done in the past 3 years... every time I think of that I get so sad and I'm trying not to think about it. But when I think about it I feel so happy. It's like a bad cycle that I can't quit the addiction to.. I do have to add that we have NEVER spent the night together so it's more like a few hours here and there for the past 3 years. Why am I doing this to myself? How can I pull away not hurting and still remain friends? Ending the sex doesn't mean ending the affair. You two are still emotionally involved - that's emotion and energy that you are pouring into him instead of into yourself and into another man who can actually offer you a complete, whole, honest relationship. And that's emotion and energy he is not putting into his marriage and into his relationship with his wife. That is an affair, not friendship. You can't maintain contact with him and expect to get over your feelings. As you said, you can't forget everything that's gone on between you, and you dwell on it and think of it whenever you think of him. That's not mere friendship. You have to pull away from both the sexual affair and the emotional affair if you expect to come out of this. I know that thought is painful, but what should be even more painful is the thought that 3 years from now, you'll still be mired in these exact same feelings unless you distance yourself.
Author HeartBrokenInNY Posted October 24, 2007 Author Posted October 24, 2007 Thank you norajane, noididnt and uptohere. its weird that i dont even know you guys but reading your replies, it alleviates some of the pain (somewhat). uptohere, may i ask...how did you get out of it? right now i feel like i am stuck. i know when we started this, it was just supposed to sex, an alleviation and distraction for both of us in our respective unhappy relationships we didn't know how to change. but its been 3 years now, and over the past 3 years, i remember every conversation we've had, every restaurant we've been to. and somehow it seems like any guy i meet somehow doesn't compare. somehow i have not much of an appetite and when i eat the food doesn't taste the same without him. i spoke to him today briefly, and i think he was gauging my mood. i wasnt in a great mood and he tried to keep me on the phone, talking lightly. i was getting more and more depressed, and hearing him speak so lightly was like a stab at my heart. (he told me, "we have to stop, we HAVE to stop! and if we continue, it's going to get bad, nothing good will come out of it. and if it hurts you, i'm sorry") i texted him that it would be easier if he came out and told me that he loved me like a sister (which he refused to do). he texted me "its kinda hard, not going anywhere" to which i replied it would be easier if he told me straightout that he was using me for sex and he replied "love you, goodnight" he said that i always said he was using me for sex, and by us remaining good friends and NOT having sex, it will show me that he really does love me, and wasn't using me for sex. he always told me that he was never going to leave his wife for another woman (he said this years and years before us). but somehow after we started, i thought, i hoped it would be different. somehow i thought (and still kind of hoping) that he would realize that we were so good together that he would be willing to take a chance with me. i don't want to turn him off or make him start to avoid me or resent me, but i really really want to know if he does love me, as a girlfriend, sister, friend, sex, or what? if he says he loves me and he means it, then why is he acting like this to me? i know these are naive questions. sometimes i feel like i will be strong and i can be withdrawn. i throw myself into my work just to stay preoccupied and busy... but then when i leave work, i feel like my life is so empty. for the past 3 years we've been spending about 3-4 nights a week hanging out (not staying over) . we used to go go rollerblading, movies, dinner, have drinks, cruising, jogging, shopping, or even just hanging out in the park to talk, with nothing to do together. i loved when we went to the movies, we could sit in the dark and i could lay my head on his shoulders (and i know it's sad.. but it makes me happy that i could do something like that in "public")... not once have we held hands in public except in the car. we haven't done anything like that in a while, and when we do have dinner these days (which is only once or twice every 2 weeks), it's usually rushed and he has to get back. is he trying to wean me gently? is he avoiding me? does he still love me or care anything for me? i refuse to, REFUSE to think that he has no feelings for me except for sex. i refuse to, or maybe it hurts too much, to think that he doesn't love me anymore....(*insert crying smiley*)
norajane Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 I'm sure he has feelings for you. It doesn't change anything, though, does it? He still won't leave his wife, which means he won't ever be fully with you. But if knowing that he does care for you helps you to walk away, use it. I walked away from the MM when I finally stared directly into the face of the truth: regardless of what eventually happened with his marriage, waiting for that was me being afraid to live my own life, that was me putting my life on hold. I believe that right here, right now, is the only guarantee we have of anything, and I didn't want my 'right here, right now' to be dependent on a married man when 'his 'right here, right now' was dependent on his failing marriage to his wife. He's divorced now, some years later, but I've moved on in the meantime and am happier and healthier for it. Now that I'm objective about him, I don't think I'd really want to take him on again.
upto_here Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 I'm trying to be good too. I'm trying to see him as a friend again, but it's hard. Today he called, as he usually does, and we talk. He apologized and said he's been neglecting me lately, but he said the love is still there. Because I was at work, I couldn't really get into the conversation as I would have liked to do. Tonight, we had dinner. He told me that he has always been upfront to be about where he stands, and he was trying to explain it to me like... he is trying to see me in a different light, trying to be good (and he says I am not making it easier). He said he knows it's much harder on me and he knows it's hurting me and he's sorry. He says he would love to keep doing what we've been doing but when does it stop? Till the day we both die? Till when his wife finds out? Till when I hate him? He says he still finds me gorgeous, etc still attracted to me as he was the first day we met, but if we continue, things will get bad. He said if we can pull this off, there is no reason why we cannot remain excellent friends until the day we die. He says he gets annoyed because there is no way out of it other than to stop what we're doing even though it hurts for both of us. He said he doesn't feel any different towards me but he is trying to control how he shows it. (Like, if you met someone who was already happily married, you would think (s)he's hot but not available, oh well.. He said that is how he is trying to think of me. He's trying to think of me as being in a happy relationship that he doesn't want to mess things up for me (and I suppose, him as well). He asked me to work with him because it's not easy for him either. I feel so lost. Seeing him and hearing his voice made me happy for a few hours, but boy, those words did hurt. Oh HBINY...i really feel sorry for your situation...its came as surprise for me that ,that is my EX MM exactly say to me...but its true that if you continue its serve no end...and at the same time you can not be friend with him you can not keep talking to him as normal ..impossible i did worked with my ex mm and its very hard even keep in a normal conversation..i think its might be hard for him too but men emotion is stable than women...my exmm even say to me that nothing last forever....especially that the R that doesn't go anywhere ,your mm its true that you both should end it now before its get nasty...it will believe me ....you did not deserved this ..you deserved to be happy...REALLY HAPPY....i used to be very weak ,very very weak...but at the end i just thought i can not getting hurt anymore..its too painful ... he did not know exactly how hurt it is for you and me...cut all contact be faraway from him as much as possible..give yourself strengh ,encourage yourself ,,the message is clear from your mm ...i don't think you want to be the one who only want to love him one side ,do you? leave when the memory still fresh and good better that its get bitter and nasty ...what do you want to do next?
upto_here Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 Thank you norajane, noididnt and uptohere. its weird that i dont even know you guys but reading your replies, it alleviates some of the pain (somewhat). uptohere, may i ask...how did you get out of it? Hi HBINY...how do i get out of it...? my story is quite nasty but i can say it now that i am not ashamed anymore i did what i thought was right ...my emotion is never ending like yours now i thought of him all the time(at the time of the R) i need you to read this very carefully , please study it at the same time,,,i read your post and most of the words your mm said to you are exactly what my exmm said to me i even thought that is it the same man!!?? i hope not!!!.... HBINY..you must figure it out what exactly do you really want? i don't want you to be really hurt like mind ,your emotional will getting worse...if you still think of him...i moved far away from him ,i cut all the contact (even though he did it first)...i don't talk to a friends that knows him ,i attract myself to something else because i kept thinking all these its not worth it...i can not let myself hurt anymore...when its hurt its hurt like hell no words can describe it..i think you are not much different but maybe you are stronger....please get out ...be strong ..you can not be friend with him ...me and my exmm did that and its served no end its will be emotion ..and i think its worse than physical A ..do yourself a favor ...lo9ve yourself more than you love him
Author HeartBrokenInNY Posted October 26, 2007 Author Posted October 26, 2007 I do remember when I was seeing that other guy for a short time, I was really able to break away from the MM and I was able (I think I was) to break away from the hold he had on me. It was hard for MM then even though he honestly tried to be happy for me. I remember thinking that things weren't so bad, I was still able to talk to MM as a really good friend while dating this other guy, and it was me who wanted to stop. But somehow things with the other guy didn't work out (he was pressuring me into giving him a time frame, after 3 months... of whether I was willing to have kids before we fully committed emtionally...he wanted them by a certain age. it pushed me away..i mean, how could i promise something of that magnitude to someone so soon after breaking up a decade+ long realtionship? but thats a whole other story) Do you think I would be able to get the strength to do that again? It seems like every time I meet/see a guy, I mentally compare him to MM and no one holds a light. Before with the other guy, me and MM were still in the lusty stage of our EA/PA. I sometimes wish I could have handled it better, and knew what to say or do which would have made MM more crazy about me. But I think I blew it. Even though he was always upfront with me, we were still able to talk for hours on the phone, on line, text messages, etc... Now it seems that one of us (usually him, I admit) is always trying to keep things light, and when the conversation flow is interrupted by silence, one of us (again, usually him) take that as a cue to end the conversation. After reading Mattym's post, and being able to get inside his head, and also being able to see things (his A) with more of an objective viewpoint than my own R with the MM, I think I thought to myself that if I really really truly love him, or care about him, whether as man-woman love or platonic love, I do want him to be happy (I guess) even if it means he's not going to be with me. What he said about "if we continue..things will get bad eventually" scares me. I really don't want to love the friendship of over 10 years either, but sometimes I feel it might be easier that way as well. I can't convince myself to make up my mind and not to sway. We went out to dinner tonight. He said although he planned to go home early from work 2-3days a week now to be with the kids/family more, we could still have one night to have dinner (in a friendly way) and he said that his W was fine with that. (She has her guy friends too). But when he picked me up, his son called (probably put up to by his W, he says..somewhat with a slight roll in his eyes...or was that only my imagination?!!?) and ask what time Daddy would be home. He made a reference to wanting to get home after dinner/early, and we didn't do anything tonight, we just talked about work, his kids, my family (Parents) and gossiped like old times, but half of me was hoping/expecting that he would hold my hand or hug me or kiss me or something,(not referring to sex but some kind of contact... acknowledge me in some way). When he didn't I was the one who reached for his hand, and I could see him purse his lipsand take a deep breath, and squeezed my hand very lightly, before putting it back in my lap, and he said "be goooood" in a pleading way. So I took a deep breath (and got a brief dose of wake-me-up) and smiled and we continued the conversation as before. But inside my head, I was feeling disappointed, and at the same time mad at myself. I can see that he's trying... and I already know the outcome whether I want to or not, there's nothing I can do about him not wanting to be with me.... why do i continue to do this to myself and him? Why can't I just let go! I try to tell myself, he's not such a greaaaaat looking guy (I think he is though), he could stand to lose a few pounds (I think he looks great, I really do...and I think most woman would too) he's a jerk, he cheats on his wife (which is calculating to some degree whether it was intentional or not, whether it hurts him or not etc), he's married for crying out loud, he's telling me to my face in the least hurtful way he knows how, he wants to be with her. He already made his choice. Let it go. Before I reached for his hand, I tried to make myself think about what he said to me... "I know it hurts you, I am sorry. I know it's not what you want to hear, I'm sorry." But wow, rejection is verrrrry painful. He calls me every night on the way home unless something comes up and we usually speak until he gets home. Tonight was no exception. He called and we spoke (about mundane stuff, nothing heavy) until he got home and we said good night. Will we ever really really really be able to be friends? I really hope so, when I read about the NC of the other posts etc, and I think about losing the friendship, then not having him to hold me, hug/kiss me seems less hurtful by comparison. But then why am I being so self destructive? Do I really have to get slammed with NC before I wake up once and for all? By that time I would really be in a dark place. But how could he turn his feelings on and off for me just like that? Was I just a conquest- a place for him to turn when things were bad in his M? I know that was the intention before we started...but when things began to unfold, deeper/romantic feelings began to as well.... at least on my part. Did he just see me as a convenience? Or does he really love/care about me? And I know I am contradicting myself. But its a confusing situation for me, I don't know about him.
bluebluesky Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 HeartBroken, *sigh* I feel for you. Through your words, I can sense the emotions you have for him. But I can also tell... well, more of an intuition, that despite what he says about things not being that great at home, that he isn't going to leave. And I don't need to retype it all, but I do think you should take to heart a lot of the things which way is up had mentioned. OW like her have been through things like this before. Hopefully you will get some others to post on your thread as well. It's always good to hear several different OW perspectives because each story is unique. And do not tell his wife! That will only make things worse.
ICallsEmAsISeesEm Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 He was unhappy with his marriage (wife was unsupportive, didn't talk/listen to him, didn't return his affections, didn't want to have sex, always complaining, etc), while I was totally the opposite. He tells me he is not miserable (not happy, not miserable)in his marriage, and she is a good mother to his kids. He has told me that he loves her, and he loves his kids more than anything else. He has told me he is comfortable. Isn't it amazing how a MM's story constantly changes - all depending on what it is they want? When your MM was looking for some side action, his wife was a "witch that constantly complained, didn't support him, wouldn't have sex with him, and showed him no affection at all." He was in misery. Then, when the subject of him actually having to put his money where his LYING MOUTH is - by leaving his OH SO HORRIBLE MARRIAGE to be with the OW - suddenly the story of his "miserable" marriage kind of changes, doesn't it? Gosh, like MAGIC. All of a sudden, wifey isn't quite the BEAST he'd painted her to be in the beginning. This horrible wife is now all of a sudden "actually a good mother, and I really do love her. Things are comfortable." Well gee, that's a far cry from the bullsh*t story he fed you in the beginning. Whether or not you're 'ugly' has nothing to do with the passive/aggressive bullsh*t games he's playing. He's enjoying the fact that you'll practically lay down on the railroad tracks for him just for a crumb of his time. I would do almost anything to be with him, he is everything I would want in a guy.Really? A proven cheater and liar is your dream guy? Why? He lied about his 'miserable' marriage to you so he could have a playtoy on the side, then he led you to believe he would leave his marriage, then all of a sudden, he's telling you he loves his wife and life really ain't that bad. So you've basically been played by a man who thinks nothing of lying and cheating all the way around. Surely you want to aim a little HIGHER when choosing a life mate? I have thought about letting his wife know but I am afraid of the repercussions. He has made it clear to me that he will never leave them...unless she leaves him first.All these lying weasels say the SAME exact thing. There's GOT to be a handbook that they're all reading. ....how to get him to be mine...Oh goody - one day down the road it will be YOU at home washing his dirty laundry while he's hitting on some other naive woman, telling her what a MISERABLE wife you are and how you don't love him or support him or show him any affection. Believe me, I am not a bad person, just that we've been friends for so long, I don't know how to nor do I really want to stop any contact with him.You crossed a line in your 'friendship' and you've come to find that was a mistake. You won't die and the world won't come to an end if you step back over the 'safety' line and move on with someone new who actually has character, integrity, and principles. This married guy's just looking for some excitement and fun on the side because he's reached the comfortably 'bored' stage in life. It happens. As most of these cheaters will tell you, they're not looking to "change" their situations, just ADD to it. Loosely translated, they want to keep the status quo and play on the side. Aim higher for yourself.
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