Scared my marriage has been a mistake

[Touche]

I made it clear from the onset, before we married, that when I retired it would be ABC -- Anywhere But California! At the time she said she'd follow me anywhere.

 

At around the same time she vehemently declared that no one would ever be permitted to come between her and her daughters. That was fine with me because I never intended to, and haven't. She raised them for 16 years as a single parent with absolutely no support of any kind from their father. I could understand her feelings.

 

Fast forward to today! When we got together she had one granddaughter. She was 18 months old and she and her mother had been living with my wife. Now she has two grandsons as well. I'm not convinced that when the time comes to relocate, she'll still be willing to. She hasn't said as much but my gut instinct is that it may not happen.

 

If that's the case, I go and she stays. She'll always be welcome to join me if she chooses to (up to a reasonable point) but I will not let her hold me back. She'll also have to go back to work to augment her retirement because I will not support two households. I've worked too hard for what I have to lose a major portion of it ever again.

 

Why are you assuming that she won't go with you? What does she say now? Do you think that because she has more grandchildren than she had when you met, her feelings have changed? What happened to the idea of "following you anywhere?"

 

Why are you not convinced that she will go with you? Why rely on "gut instinct" when you can just ask her?

 

I agree with you about not supporting two households. I mean if she agreed to moving at retirement, she's the one who would be "breaking the deal" and you shouldn't have to pay for that.

 

So have you asked her directly?

[Curmudgeon]

Why are you assuming that she won't go with you? What does she say now? Do you think that because she has more grandchildren than she had when you met, her feelings have changed? What happened to the idea of "following you anywhere?"

 

Why are you not convinced that she will go with you? Why rely on "gut instinct" when you can just ask her?

 

So have you asked her directly?

 

It's complicated. I'm not assuming she won't go with me. I'm considering the possibility that when the time comes she may not. I do think her feelings are changing the more time she spends with her grands and her daughters which, since she retired early, she has plenty of time to do. They may also be changing about us to an extent. Certain dynamics in our marriage have certainly changed over the year, which is to be expected, but I'm not sure it's all been for the best.

 

I'm not convinced she'll go with me because her initial declaration that she would do so may have been, in part, a product of the blooming romance, perhaps spoken in a bit of haste and starry-eyed euphoria.

 

As unfortunate as it sounds, I won't just ask because I believe the answer will be the same but I lack confidence that it will be completely truthful. A "maybe" might be the reality but that's not what I'd hear.

 

No! I have not asked her directly. I most certainly will in enough time before the eventuality to shift plans if that's what must be done. Right now I'm just riding it out.

 

I am very focused and directed regarding retirement. I'm looking at another, major promotion in the next couple of months which will most definitely enhance both my income, my investments and my retirement. Is it possible that's just too good a thing to let go of? I begin to suspect that might be a possible dynamic here.

 

I hope I'm wrong. Ex cop's gut instinct is on high alert!

[Touche]

Absolutely that sounds too good to let go of. I mean staying and going might make a HUGE difference in the quality of your lifestyle at retirement. But how good would it be without your wife by your side? She's too good to let go of too, isn't she?

 

All of that said, I think it's a mistake, Curm to wait. You should start having these discussions now. At least to get her used to the idea and for her to really know that you're serious. I'd start with those discussions now.

 

Some people (my H is like this) need lots of time to reflect and absorb any changes. I know this about my H and that's why I put the bug in his ear about things WELL before I actually want whatever change I have in mind implemented. I'm just suggesting that you do the same.

 

Also, it's probably not the best thing to take such a hard-nosed approach. Do you know what I'm saying? Although in your mind, this is non-negotiable, I wouldn't present it in such a way. I'm not saying that I think you should not be honest about that fact, but you don't need to hit a person over the head with things either. That puts them on the defensive and we generally end up losing with that approach.

 

What I do, when I know my H and I aren't exactly on the same page about certain changes, is stress all the positives. And remind her that she'll be able to see them and they her often.

 

You're going to have to do a little "selling." (I've become quite good at that!)

 

But in the end she will thank you for it. I have no doubt.

[RecordProducer]

Curm, I think you're reacting like a human being here: you want your wife's whole attention to yourself. That's normal and cute.

 

I undertsand your angst, but for a woman her kids mean more than anything. And that doesn't mean that her love for you cannot compare or anything like that. I would never ever want to be separated from my kids, unless they chose that. Don't expect from her to leave her kids and grandkids to follow you. It's too much to ask, Curm. I am sorry, I am not moralizing. I am just telling you how I would feel about the situation if I were her. And I might love you to death nonetheless.

[Curmudgeon]

Absolutely that sounds too good to let go of. I mean staying and going might make a HUGE difference in the quality of your lifestyle at retirement. But how good would it be without your wife by your side? She's too good to let go of too, isn't she?

 

All of that said, I think it's a mistake, Curm to wait. You should start having these discussions now. At least to get her used to the idea and for her to really know that you're serious. I'd start with those discussions now.

 

Some people (my H is like this) need lots of time to reflect and absorb any changes. I know this about my H and that's why I put the bug in his ear about things WELL before I actually want whatever change I have in mind implemented. I'm just suggesting that you do the same.

 

Also, it's probably not the best thing to take such a hard-nosed approach. Do you know what I'm saying? Although in your mind, this is non-negotiable, I wouldn't present it in such a way. I'm not saying that I think you should not be honest about that fact, but you don't need to hit a person over the head with things either. That puts them on the defensive and we generally end up losing with that approach.

 

What I do, when I know my H and I aren't exactly on the same page about certain changes, is stress all the positives. And remind her that she'll be able to see them and they her often.

 

You're going to have to do a little "selling." (I've become quite good at that!)

 

But in the end she will thank you for it. I have no doubt.

 

Going WILL make a huge difference in quality of life. However, if she recants then I'll make sure it's good without her. It would likely be better with her but if there's one thing I'm not afraid of it's being alone. BTDT! I would hate to let her go since she's been a part of my life for 16 years but would if I had to rather than staying here.

 

I think you're right! Once current issues regarding her mother are somewhat settled I intend to broach the subject. I'm sure she knows I'm serious, given the planning and research I've done, but a reminder may be in order. Again and most unfortunately, I have reason to doubt even if she verbalizes going along with it. It's a trust issue on my part, with cause, and nothing less.

 

I'll pitch it again when the time is right and see what happens.

 

I would hate to think she'll go along for fear of what she might lose rather than by reason of us!

[Touche]

Going WILL make a huge difference in quality of life. However, if she recants then I'll make sure it's good without her. It would likely be better with her but if there's one thing I'm not afraid of it's being alone. BTDT! I would hate to let her go since she's been a part of my life for 16 years but would if I had to rather than staying here.

 

I think you're right! Once current issues regarding her mother are somewhat settled I intend to broach the subject. I'm sure she knows I'm serious, given the planning and research I've done, but a reminder may be in order. Again and most unfortunately, I have reason to doubt even if she verbalizes going along with it. It's a trust issue on my part, with cause, and nothing less.

 

I'll pitch it again when the time is right and see what happens.

 

I would hate to think she'll go along for fear of what she might lose rather than by reason of us!

 

But YOU'RE the most important thing she might lose. And that should be her main motivation for going of course...that and your quality of life. I do think it would be selfish of her to deny BOTH of you that opportunity.

 

I don't agree with you RP (sorry, dear). This is THEIR time now. Curm's wife's kids are grown adults with their own families. They can still visit and speak and have a relationship. But she's not single. She has a HUSBAND to think of. And a life with HIM.

 

Yes, Curm. A reminder might be in order at the right time since you seem to have some doubts about her future intentions.

 

As for the trust issue...well, you can take her at her word or not. The proof will be in the pudding.

 

I think you're being perfectly reasonable. The approach will be crucial though. It could make all the difference.

 

(And thanks for the compliment:). )

[Curmudgeon]

Curm, I think you're reacting like a human being here: you want your wife's whole attention to yourself. That's normal and cute.

 

I undertsand your angst, but for a woman her kids mean more than anything. And that doesn't mean that her love for you cannot compare or anything like that. I would never ever want to be separated from my kids, unless they chose that. Don't expect from her to leave her kids and grandkids to follow you. It's too much to ask, Curm. I am sorry, I am not moralizing. I am just telling you how I would feel about the situation if I were her. And I might love you to death nonetheless.

 

But I also know that we have and will have enough resources for her to fly back and visit several times a year and to fly the children out to spend time with us.

 

If that's not enough then she will have made her choice, if it comes to that -- a choice I never presented.

[Curmudgeon]

I think you're being perfectly reasonable. The approach will be crucial though. It could make all the difference.

 

(And thanks for the compliment:). )

 

I've always told anyone who has to deal with me that approach is everything. I try my best to follow my own advice and be reasonable, non-threatening, non-dictatorial, inclusive, conciliatory when appropriate and reasonable.

 

Time will tell!

 

(Fully deserved!)

[Touche]

Well good luck Curm! I'm sure your wife won't let a prince of a man like you walk out of her life. She'll follow you, I'm sure.

 

(And thank you again.)

[RecordProducer]

But I also know that we have and will have enough resources for her to fly back and visit several times a year and to fly the children out to spend time with us.

 

If that's not enough then she will have made her choice, if it comes to that -- a choice I never presented.

That's not the same. It's easier for you to give up the place you want to live in than for her to give up her family. This is not siblings or parents we're talking about - it's children and grandkids. Mothers have a special relationship with their daughters. What good does it do if she moves with you and misses her daughters? She would resent you for this deprivation. No matter how you slice it, she's got children and they are very important to her. She's always been around them and it's not so easy to break that.

I know it hurts, Curm, but this is the way we women are. You know I like you a lot and I am kinda even biased (I want to be on your side), but in this I really see your wife's point. And it will make your marriage even stronger if YOU see it, too. It's so easy to pull on our side - it's difficult to see the other party's side. And THAT makes a marriage strong. At least you know it. If you do her a favor and let it be her way, she will always remember it and return the kindness.

 

However, if you force her to lose one of you, you will ruin what you've been building for many years. Is the place where you want to move really worth losing the love of your life? If you think it is, then it was never true love. I can tell you, if she chooses her daughters over you, it won't mean that she doesn't love you a lot. It's difficult to choose between children and a husband. Seeing them a few times a year is not enough. Do you have kids of your own? Fathers are slightly differnet than mothers, though. Mothers feel incomplete if they are not involved in their children's lives on a daily basis.

[Touche]

But RP these are adults. I don't see why adults with their own children need to have "daily" involvement from their mother.

 

Also, it's not just a matter of "a new place." It's a matter of quality of life...something that Curm has been working for and towards and also "building" for years and years. How can she want to take that away from him? Not to mention that she's already agreed to it before they were married.

 

I had this discussion with a friend of mine and we didn't agree on this either. I'm of a mind that the marriage should come FIRST. Your spouse should come FIRST. What good will she be to her kids and grandkids if she loses her mate? I'm sure, if they're not selfish, they wouldn't want that for her. They'd want her to be happy. They'd give their blessing.

[RecordProducer]

But RP these are adults. I don't see why adults with their own children need to have "daily" involvement from their mother.

 

Also, it's not just a matter of "a new place." It's a matter of quality of life...something that Curm has been working for and towards and also "building" for years and years. How can she want to take that away from him? Not to mention that she's already agreed to it before they were married.

 

I had this discussion with a friend of mine and we didn't agree on this either. I'm of a mind that the marriage should come FIRST. Your spouse should come FIRST. What good will she be to her kids and grandkids if she loses her mate? I'm sure, if they're not selfish, they wouldn't want that for her. They'd want her to be happy. They'd give their blessing.

It's not about them, it's about her. She wants to be around them. Maybe she promised Curm they would move, but forced fulfilment of promises only brings resentment. It has to be a 2 : 0 decision, ie. they both need to be comfortable with it. I think in a good marriage, people will act like a team and the unity should be more important than the outside factor. He has his own reasons, she has hers. One will have to win. I am just saying that there are two sides and he apparently sees his clearly, but he needs to see hers, as well. That's all.

[Curmudgeon]

Do you have kids of your own? Fathers are slightly different than mothers, though. Mothers feel incomplete if they are not involved in their children's lives on a daily basis.

 

I have five children in all. My oldest son and his wife live across the country from us. My youngest son, his wife and his daughter (my granddaughter) from a former marriage live 1,200 miles away and they are expecting a child in December. My oldest daughter, her husband and three of my grandchildren live in this state about two hours from here. My middle and youngest daughter both live in our city. All the children are adults.

 

No doubt there will be many more grandchildren before all is said-and-done and I'm still not dissuaded from moving back east.

 

My wife was forewarned before we married that I would be leaving California when I retired. I've never changed my mind. If she's done so she need to be up front about it and that WILL spell the end of the marriage. Better now than at the last minute and after any more planning.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm of a mind that the marriage should come FIRST. Your spouse should come FIRST. What good will she be to her kids and grandkids if she loses her mate? I'm sure, if they're not selfish, they wouldn't want that for her. They'd want her to be happy. They'd give their blessing.

 

Many years ago, when my youngest son was married, I wrote an essay I called the 10 Commandments of Marriage for him and his wife. It ended as follows which is how I still view a true marriage:

 

"In the bible there is a passage about the first and great commandment and a second that is like unto it. In marriage, the first and great commandment is "Put your marriage first." The second is, indeed, like unto it. "Put everyone and everything else second to your marriage." Children come, grow and go. Parents pass on. Siblings and other relatives scatter. Friends relocate or you may grow beyond them, or them beyond you. Jobs and the people in them change. In the end, all you have to totally rely on is yourselves, and all that within the framework of your marriage."

[Curmudgeon]

It's not about them, it's about her. She wants to be around them. Maybe she promised Curm they would move, but forced fulfilment of promises only brings resentment. It has to be a 2 : 0 decision, ie. they both need to be comfortable with it. I think in a good marriage, people will act like a team and the unity should be more important than the outside factor. He has his own reasons, she has hers. One will have to win. I am just saying that there are two sides and he apparently sees his clearly, but he needs to see hers, as well. That's all.

 

...my AMEN post to Touche and then consider this. One of those 10 commanments is mutuality. If that's lost there is no relationship.

 

Children we had. One another we chose. If the former take total precedence over the latter then it's doomed.

 

I see her side and I questioned her at the time the commitment was made. I most certainly won't force her to fulfill her promise to me. I will simply exit stage right if she doesn't. No pressure. Just a commitment I made to myself that will be realized. No harm. No foul. No repurcussions. A peaceful parting of the ways with regret.

[Touche]

It's not about them, it's about her. She wants to be around them. Maybe she promised Curm they would move, but forced fulfilment of promises only brings resentment. It has to be a 2 : 0 decision, ie. they both need to be comfortable with it. I think in a good marriage, people will act like a team and the unity should be more important than the outside factor. He has his own reasons, she has hers. One will have to win. I am just saying that there are two sides and he apparently sees his clearly, but he needs to see hers, as well. That's all.

 

But if SHOULD be about THEM and not about HER. That's my whole point.

 

Also, you say "forced fulfillment of promises" and I don't see where anything was "forced" on her when Curm was up front about his future plans right from the start.

 

I'll give a real life example from my own life. When my H and I met he said he wanted a few more kids. I told him I only wanted ONE and no more. Would it have been fair after we married and had our child for him to push the issue about having more kids? That would have affected my quality of life. It would have been if not a deal-breaker a real fight. And, most significantly, he would have broken his word and "changed the deal." Something I would have had a real problem with.

 

When a couple doesn't agree, one is going to win and one is going to lose the argument. Why should Curm be the one to lose it when he was up front about this and she AGREED before they took their vows? Seems to me that she should be the one to "lose" this one and make the compromises here.

 

And yes, Curm the earlier you get this out in the open and made clear, the better. But also, give her time. She might not be amenable to the whole idea right now but may change her mind as the time draws near.

[Touche]

Many years ago, when my youngest son was married, I wrote an essay I called the 10 Commandments of Marriage for him and his wife. It ended as follows which is how I still view a true marriage:

 

"In the bible there is a passage about the first and great commandment and a second that is like unto it. In marriage, the first and great commandment is "Put your marriage first." The second is, indeed, like unto it. "Put everyone and everything else second to your marriage." Children come, grow and go. Parents pass on. Siblings and other relatives scatter. Friends relocate or you may grow beyond them, or them beyond you. Jobs and the people in them change. In the end, all you have to totally rely on is yourselves, and all that within the framework of your marriage."

 

Just saw this. Yes, that's exactly how I see it too. Any other way, and I'm not sure how one can have a successful marriage. Every good marriage I've seen in my life, functioned on this principle. So I follow it myself. I don't question success but I do emulate it.

[Curmudgeon]

And yes, Curm the earlier you get this out in the open and made clear, the better. But also, give her time. She might not be amenable to the whole idea right now but may change her mind as the time draws near.

 

Again, you're right as always. However, now's not a good time. My wife's mother (the Wicked Witch of the West) is in decline and not being at all cooperative regarding living arrangements, care, etc. My wife's her only child. My oldest daughter (the one with three children) just called today and told me there's something wrong and she's had a brain scan. They're not sure whether she's had a series of Transient Ischemic Attacks (TIAs) -- mini-strokes or warning strokes -- has lupus or has multiple sclerosis. More testing coming up!

 

Her mother's issues have triggered my wife's bipolar depression and she's also self-medicating with alcohol (typical BP pattern/behavior) so I will barely talk to her about present issues, much less future ones.

 

Meanwhile, I'm being headhunted for a major promotion at work which will take me out of the political arena for the first time in 16 years and into a policy area with which I'm very familiar but will still have to be on the learning curve for awhile, and that adds other stressors.

 

Maybe I should just stealth retire, pack up the new car I bought a few weeks ago and head east on my own leaving behind a nice bank account for my wife and no forwarding address!

[RecordProducer]

"Put your marriage first."

 

Just a commitment I made to myself that will be realized.

I still don't see that you're putting the marriage first. You're putting your own wishes first.

 

But if SHOULD be about THEM and not about HER. That's my whole point.

 

Also, you say "forced fulfillment of promises" and I don't see where anything was "forced" on her when Curm was up front about his future plans right from the start.

Things change, people change. That's one thing we should understand about the people we love. If your husband weren't your child's father, would you give up your son or your husband?

[Curmudgeon]

Things change, people change. That's one thing we should understand about the people we love. If your husband weren't your child's father, would you give up your son or your husband?

 

...giving up one or the other. It's a matter of honoring your commitment.

 

I may change, but not to that extent!