luvmy2ns Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Look, lets keep it real. It's ok for men to spread it around. thats how men are. Men will be men. Deal with it. A woman that 'spreads it around' is really nothing more than a slut. They should have more self respect than that. OMG! What planet did you come from? Any man of mine who chooses to "spread it around" would find himself "spreading it" in the bed of the "sluts" he chooses to "spread it" with.
uniqueone Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 No it isn’t. Men are not all the same. I guess some of us are just more evolved. Having studied the phenomenon of pick-up artists and their point of view making it into the mainstream, I’ve come to see a flaw in the logic. Typically the pick-up artist well get a lot of women to sleep with him but he will never establish a lasting relationship and when he tries, fails miserably. The pick-up artist fancies himself as a manly man that doesn’t take crap from women, when in reality, he is just being used by the same slvt that all the other pick-up artists are picking up. That is, a pick-up artist is not at all a desirable mate, just another penis to play with. On the other hand, a man who is genuinely honorable, successful, good looking, confident, cultured… He will never stoop to the clownish antics of a pick-up artist. Women will naturally be drawn to him, dream about him, fall for him because he truly is a man worthy of her affections, a man who could produce, with her, the best possible children. Case in point. Brad Pitt. Possibly the most desired man in the world. He could literally have sex with thousands upon thousands of women if he so chose. Yet he lives his life in a rather monogamous way. Throughout my life, over the last 30 years, I have had opportunity with literally hundreds of women, yet I have had sex with only a little under two dozen, all of whom I had meaningful, long lasting relationships. Though I’ve not been strictly monogamous (some of these relationships have overlapped each other) I have never slept with a woman just to have sex. It has always been in the context of a relationship. It is not by choice, it is because that is how I am. And, to reiterate, those men who think that men are programmed to spread their seed far and wide tend to be inferior, insecure men who clownishly chase wh0res. You tell 'em. Po man! I like how you think! (oh...except for the Brad Pitt thing.....I never could understand what women saw in him.......)
shadowofman Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I don't have any desire to be promiscous. So does this make me a freak of nature then? Not at all uniqueone! There are tons of people out there with little to no inclination toward promiscuity, or in other words, monogamously inclined people. I would say that less than half of all people "are" mongamous and great number of these people are actually, truely promiscuous. Think about! You can pretty much take anyone that claims to be promiscuous at their word. But people that claim to be monogamous, well, this site is full of those stories. This genetic predisposition stuff is all hooey. Everybody is different- we're influenced by an inseperable mix of genetics, upbringing, experience, and straight out personality. Everbody desires different things from their partner(s). So you just admitted that genetics does play a role in who you are. But you are wrong to down play it, ESPECIALLY when it comes to basic sexual inclinations. The reason people want to have sex in the first place is genetic. And if a person wants to have sex with a variety of people throughout their lives, what could convince them that they don't want to besides cultural taboo? Also, what you desire from your partner is irrelevant to the topic. In the end, regardless of your "predisipositions" you should take responsibility for whatever actions you CHOOSE to take. No argument there, especially in regards to an intellegent person. I concider stupid people to be neandertals that know not what they do. It's easier for me to do this than to think of them as evil. I don't believe in evil. Brad Pitt. Possibly the most desired man in the world. He could literally have sex with thousands upon thousands of women if he so chose. Yet he lives his life in a rather monogamous way. You have no idea how Brad Pitt lives. For all you know he could be very promiscuous. I would say that the chances are very great that he is. I bet you Angelina is too. I bet that's why he left Jennifer for her. Most promiscuous people appear to be mongamous because our culture demands it. ESPECIALLY for celebreties! And, to reiterate, those men who think that men are programmed to spread their seed far and wide tend to be inferior, insecure men who clownishly chase wh0res. Do you have any evidence for this or are you done calling people names? This is an ad homin argument. Attack my argument instead of me, please.
uniqueone Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 There are tons of people out there with little to no inclination toward promiscuity, or in other words, monogamously inclined people. I would say that less than half of all people "are" mongamous and great number of these people are actually, truely promiscuous. I thought you said we were designed to be promiscuous. This is contradicting that point. "monogamously inclined"??? Was that just made up? "Well now look at little Bobby over there...that little fella is sure mechanically inclined, now ain't he, Vern?" "Yep....and look over there at that little Susie.....she's monogamously inclined....." "Yeppers Vern....she sure is.....cute as a button too......." :rolleyes:
IrishCarBomb Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Do you have any evidence for this or are you done calling people names? This is an ad homin argument. Attack my argument instead of me, please. I think you mean ad hominem, but it's not the case. He's pointing out that there's may be a correlation in promiscuity and insecurity. I don't think he's calling you inferior or insecure.
lonelybird Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Manly man is the one who has strong self control, love not only himself, once he falls in love with a woman, he can commit himself to her only, that is love. The man who spread his seeds everywhere is the one who are WEAK. only submit himself to his flesh. Please remember, man consist of physical body and spirit-heart soul. Only go with physical urges, will damage his spiritual healthy.
Trialbyfire Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 You can call it what you want but each person has something non-corporal about them. You can feel it when you get to know them. As for promiscuity, I can't help but agree that there are other reasons beyond physical gratification. For many, not all, it's a form of validation of attractiveness. I can't relate to this need, enacted in this manner. A compliment will do...
shadowofman Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I think you mean ad hominem, but it's not the case. He's pointing out that there's may be a correlation in promiscuity and insecurity. I don't think he's calling you inferior or insecure. Sorry, Ad Hominem. Maybe he wasn't attacking me, but I would still like to see some evidence. I will refrain from making equally silly statements about people that support monogamy. I thought you said we were designed to be promiscuous. This is contradicting that point. Nope, no contadiction here. Read it again and don't add words. Quote me if you want to. I've never used the word designed. We are decended from promiscuous ancestors. The nature of human child birth led us down a path toward monogamous pair-bonding. The result is a hybrid promiscuous-monogamous society that we call a horrible world. "monogamously inclined"??? Was that just made up? Nope again! "Promiscuousness" is a sexual orientation (or sexual inclination), one is said to be inclined to be promiscuous. Someone with no inclination toward being promiscuous is said to have a monogamous inclination, or a monogamous sexual orientation. See my Thesis on Sexual Identity Thread in the Sexual Identity section. Your example about Susie is funny, but obviously children are not sexually inclined at all.
shadowofman Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 You can call it what you want but each person has something non-corporal about them. You can feel it when you get to know them. So you feel it? What is it and how do you know that it's non-corporal? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and I'm satisfied with not fully knowing. Yet. As for promiscuity, I can't help but agree that there are other reasons beyond physical gratification. For many, not all, it's a form of validation of attractiveness. Could be for some. I would be willing to bet that many promiscuous women are just seeking this. I say this because women tend to have a monogamous inclination. Men tend to have a promiscuous inclination and don't tend to need much validation of attractiveness. This may be crass to some, but most promiscuous men have a motto, "Being monogamous is the same as eating the same cereal for breakfast every morning." They just crave variety.
IrishCarBomb Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Men tend to have a promiscuous inclination and don't tend to need much validation of attractiveness. This may be crass to some, but most promiscuous men have a motto, "Being monogamous is the same as eating the same cereal for breakfast every morning." They just crave variety. You think the variety is more important to them than the validation?
shadowofman Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I can't speak for everyone honestly, but if I had to guess I would say this is true for most men. Maybe 50/50. I have no evidence, so I make no definate statements. How many men get prostitutes for sex, and how many get them to just talk? It is a significant number in both cases, I just don't know exactly. Like I said, men tend to not be very interested in validating their attractiveness.
IrishCarBomb Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Like I said, men tend to not be very interested in validating their attractiveness. I would agree that it is not about attractiveness... however there's a notion of "manliness" that applies. Men feel compelled to "conquer" or "obtain" women to reassure their capacities as a man. So it's not validating their attractiveness, it's validating their manliness. I feel this ties with the original poster's view on promiscuity and insecuirty, however I don't necessarily share his views. I would also think that many men don't get prostitutes just to talk... If you know otherwise, I'd be curious as to what motivates these men.
shadowofman Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I could agree that men want to validate their manliness, but I think this is a bonus to the desire for sex in the first place. This is my experience with the promiscuous men that I know. I have worked side by side with lots and lots of men, and had many, many conversations about women and sex with them.(I have had more jobs than I can count and gone to several schools) All in all, from my personal experience, men like sex with as many women as they can get because they desire variety. I've seen men with very attractive wives, have sex with the nastiest prostitutes in hidden places while at work. Right now, as I am working in a hotel third shift, there is a group of men staying in the hotel for the week or so, some packing company. They have two prostitutes from the local truck stop that they are passing back and forth among them. Women are calling them all the time, and I am assuming they are their wives and girlfriends. The cats away and the mice are playing. I would also think that many men don't get prostitutes just to talk... If you know otherwise, I'd be curious as to what motivates these men. I have no information. All I know of this is what I've learned from prostitutes. They claim that a percentage of their Johns just want to be held and to talk. I have trouble believing it myself, but I take their word for it.
uniqueone Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I could agree that men want to validate their manliness, but I think this is a bonus to the desire for sex in the first place. This is my experience with the promiscuous men that I know. I have worked side by side with lots and lots of men, and had many, many conversations about women and sex with them.(I have had more jobs than I can count and gone to several schools) All in all, from my personal experience, men like sex with as many women as they can get because they desire variety. And to what do you attribute their reason for wanting variety? Are you saying that men just act on some primal instinct and don't practice any higher level thinking? Can you give me any logical reasons that men want variety other than primitive urges (that evolutionarily they should have surpassed by now)? Then again, maybe they're just the white moth on the black tree waiting to be eaten by the predator and evolution is just slow.
shadowofman Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 And to what do you attribute their reason for wanting variety? Are you saying that men just act on some primal instinct and don't practice any higher level thinking? Can you give me any logical reasons that men want variety other than primitive urges (that evolutionarily they should have surpassed by now)? Then again, maybe they're just the white moth on the black tree waiting to be eaten by the predator and evolution is just slow. First of all, common misconception about evolution. There is no such thing as "more evolved". There is only "more adapted" to environments. And men are very adapted to the current environment. Why do men want variety? Well I don't think we have isolated that gene, or that particular hormone or chemical, but you have to look at the bigger picture. Forget what you think is the correct human behavior. If you were an alien scientist, sent to earth to record human behavior, what to do you think would be the most universal characteristic among all the world's men. Why do so many cultures, past and present, promote male dominated polyamory. Because men want many sexual partners and women don't. The easiest way for men to have multiple sexual partners is to dominate women. The second easiest way is for men to cheat. The last choice is for a man to remain a single swinger (something that most men are unwilling to choose because they crave a loving relationship just like women) Why do so many men want their women to have threesomes with other women? Sure lesbian sex is cool, but it's the new vagina that's most appealing. Why is playboy one of the top selling magazine's in the world? Men like to see a variety of women naked. I have no exact reason, but it is an obvious phenomena. Undeniable in fact! You can say that it's is a primitive urge, and that evolution should have changed men, but that is not how evolution works. There must be environmental pressure that prevents the passing of genes. Promiscuous men would have to be prevented from breeding (good luck). What inevitably happened was that promiscous men learned to pretend to be mongamous. Hence, the world full of cheaters we have today.
IrishCarBomb Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 I just can't decipher your stance... I know you think biology plays a major role in how our society works (and I definitly agree), but I don't see your ultimate point. Is it that cheaters are "selected" and will outnumber people who are monogamous? That promiscious men are the "winners" while monogamous people "lose"? Are you saying that the promiscuity is acceptable... because it is a "winning" strategy?
shadowofman Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 I just can't decipher your stance... I know you think biology plays a major role in how our society works (and I definitly agree), but I don't see your ultimate point. My ultimate point is to make people understand a few things about sexual orientation. That promiscuousness is a sexual orientation just as much as heterosexuality and homosexuality. Not that promiscuousness is better or worse than monogamousness, but that we are the way we are and we can't help our biological inclinations toward sex. Is it that cheaters are "selected" and will outnumber people who are monogamous? No. Only that cheating is all pervasive in culture, precisely because promiscuousness is demonized as "the wrong way to be". People with a promiscuous orientation are left with no choice but to hide their inclinations in order to be themselves. I know all of you can say that they can control themselves and what not, but it's like trying to get teenagers to pledge abstinence. It doesn't work! That promiscious men are the "winners" while monogamous people "lose"? Monogamous people do seem to be shotting themselves in the foot by demonizing promiscuity, don't they? Are you saying that the promiscuity is acceptable... because it is a "winning" strategy? It is acceptable, but it seems like everyone is losing to me. Promiscuous people are getting involved with monogamous people when there seems to be plenty that would be a better match. Monogamous people are believing anyone that claims to be monogamous when there is so obviously a culture of deceit. Most of the time, promiscuous people are just as respondsible for the demonizing their own orientation as monogamous people. This is a condition of our culture that I am interested in denting. This problem will never be fixed over night. People first need to understand themselves, and this has been my journey over the past few years. I myself am a promiscuously oriented man in a committed relationship with a monogamous woman. How did I get myself into this situation? Well, I didn't understand any of this back then. I knew I was interested in threesomes. All my past girlfriends were promiscuous. I thought everyone was a little bi and a little promiscuous. I fell in love with a girl. And as usual, love clouded my mind. At first, half of my brain was thinking that I could be monogamous with "this one". Half of my brain was thinking that she will eventually be interested in promiscuity, just like all the other girls I had dated. In fact the words, monogamy and promiscuity never came up in any of our conversations as we were gettingto know one another. It was all, "Are you looking for a committed relationship?" And yes I was. I am very much committed to spending the rest of my life with this woman, I just can't help but want to have sex with other people. And not nessessarily alone. I would love if we did everything as a couple. I digress....sorry for the rant.
IrishCarBomb Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 My ultimate point is to make people understand a few things about sexual orientation. That promiscuousness is a sexual orientation just as much as heterosexuality and homosexuality. Not that promiscuousness is better or worse than monogamousness, but that we are the way we are and we can't help our biological inclinations toward sex. Promiscuity is a behavior, homosexuality and heterosexuality are orientations. An orientation is what you find sexually stimulating, promiscuity is a way you act on it. People can control their behavior, they cannot control their orientation. To call promiscuity an orientation is to say these people have no control over their behavior, which is wrong.
uniqueone Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Hmmm....where to begin..... You said: "Because men want many sexual partners and women don't." So one gender wants many sex partners and the other gender doesn't. How are you proposing that this can work ---given that the genders are both at cross purposes? I don't know about you, but I'm seeing a problem there. You say that promiscuousness is a natural tendency. A lot of criminals have poor impulse control. They've likely had poor impulse control since they were very small. It's just how they are. Does this mean we should applaud it? When a guy murders his wife because he's angry at her (*cough* o.j.) ...should we just say "Well...he's just naturally impulsive....he can't help it...." If impulsiveness is natural and promiscuousness is natural, shouldn't we treat them the same way? Therefore, are you advocating that we give into lack of impulse control as well? My final issue with this is.....where are you going with this? Are you referring to promiscousness in single men or married men? Do you feel it should be accepted in BOTH? Oh and one more thing thrown in here.....could it maybe be the fact that you're feeling stuck in the relationship you're in right now that is driving your need to justify sleeping with other people? You said: I myself am a promiscuously oriented man in a committed relationship with a monogamous woman. How did I get myself into this situation? Well, I didn't understand any of this back then. I knew I was interested in threesomes. All my past girlfriends were promiscuous. I thought everyone was a little bi and a little promiscuous. I fell in love with a girl. And as usual, love clouded my mind. At first, half of my brain was thinking that I could be monogamous with "this one". Half of my brain was thinking that she will eventually be interested in promiscuity, just like all the other girls I had dated. In fact the words, monogamy and promiscuity never came up in any of our conversations as we were gettingto know one another. It was all, "Are you looking for a committed relationship?" And yes I was. I am very much committed to spending the rest of my life with this woman, I just can't help but want to have sex with other people.
shadowofman Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 This is for uniqueone: So one gender wants many sex partners and the other gender doesn't. How are you proposing that this can work ---given that the genders are both at cross purposes? I don't know about you, but I'm seeing a problem there. Ok, that was a mistake. There are promiscuous people of both sexes. Most of my girlfriends have all been promiscuous. POriented men need to get with PO women and MO men need to get with MO women. The problem is most people don't recognize themselves as such. Read on and I will explain more. If impulsiveness is natural and promiscuousness is natural, shouldn't we treat them the same way? Therefore, are you advocating that we give into lack of impulse control as well? Maybe they are both natural, but they should not be treated the same. Restraint is a virtue! This is why I do everything that I can to not cheat on my W. It's hard but I have been successful thus far. I have also done nothing to hide my promiscuousness from my wife. She knows that I have a PO. My final issue with this is.....where are you going with this? Are you referring to promiscousness in single men or married men? Do you feel it should be accepted in BOTH? I understand that the English language has not a word for what I am describing, so here is a little definition... Promiscuous - actually having more than one sexual partner Promiscuousness - the desire to have more than one sexual partner Promiscuousness is a sexual orientation. It is a sexual inclination. The same as Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, Asexuality, Pansexuality, Sapiosexuality, all of the -philias (there are hundreds recorded), Sadism, Masochism, Voyeurism, Exhibitionism, etc., etc., etc.. Read my Thesis on Sexual Identity under the gender and sexual identity section of the forums. It is short an will explain in greater detail. For IrishCarBomb: Promiscuity is a behavior, homosexuality and heterosexuality are orientations. An orientation is what you find sexually stimulating, promiscuity is a way you act on it. People can control their behavior, they cannot control their orientation. I bet the Germans have better words to describe all of this. Promiscuity is a behavior. Promiscuousness is an orientation. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t130842/ Here is the link to Thesis on Sexual Identity
shadowofman Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Oh and one more thing thrown in here.....could it maybe be the fact that you're feeling stuck in the relationship you're in right now that is driving your need to justify sleeping with other people? I don't sleep with other people. I want to. But I'm not impusive like that. All of this research comes after years of wondering why I want to sleep with other people, coupled with NO desire to go behind my W's back. I've had to ask myself a billion times, "Why do I want to sleep with other people when I have an insanely hot W?" Because, as the thread title suggests, my brain and genetic makeup makes me want to. "Why do I fantasize about my wife sleeping with other people?" Because it's a way for me to vicariously be promiscuous, through her. How come most of the time, I uncontrollably imagine my wife giving head to another man or woman while I'm having sex with her? And how come when I try to suppress these thoughts my erection goes away? Because I am promiscuously oriented. When I think I shouldn't be thinking these things, I get self concious, depressed, and that's not what keeps me erect. (By the way, I'm all better now. No ED cause I have accepted my desires as normal)
lonelybird Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 I don't sleep with other people. I want to. But I'm not impusive like that. All of this research comes after years of wondering why I want to sleep with other people, coupled with NO desire to go behind my W's back. I've had to ask myself a billion times, "Why do I want to sleep with other people when I have an insanely hot W?" Because, as the thread title suggests, my brain and genetic makeup makes me want to. "Why do I fantasize about my wife sleeping with other people?" Because it's a way for me to vicariously be promiscuous, through her. How come most of the time, I uncontrollably imagine my wife giving head to another man or woman while I'm having sex with her? And how come when I try to suppress these thoughts my erection goes away? Because I am promiscuously oriented. When I think I shouldn't be thinking these things, I get self concious, depressed, and that's not what keeps me erect. (By the way, I'm all better now. No ED cause I have accepted my desires as normal) maybe you think this sex too much. I didn't mean you can suppress these thought, I mean you can exchange these thought with other things. ocupy your mind with other interesting things, like fill a cup with orange juice instead of water. If you try to think out why and try to suppress them, maybe lead you think sex more and more. everything begins from your mind, if you can change your mind, your physical desires can change too. I knew this as I tried. the more sex I think, the more I want it. but instead I try to do or think other things, then those thought will go away. I think that every person need a deep spiritual and emotional connection with others, such as wife and husband. not easy to say in a single post
shadowofman Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Oh, I definately try to occupy myself. I'm very into strategy games. I write. I read a lot. That is my "spiritual" medicine. The problem is that I have a very demanding sex life with my W. After 5 years, we still have sex once, sometimes twice a day. She demands it (not that I'm complaining). She will seriously start throwing things if I hold out on her. This was an issue when I was going though a particularly depressing period. I thought there was something wrong with me mentally. That's why I have spent so much time on the psychology of human sexuality. Read Alfred Kinsey. Freud. Hirshfeld. Desmond Morris. De Waul to learn the habits of chimps and bonobos. EO Wilson. Searched my own self. Observed the men an women around me. Came here to learn more. And I've learned so much. Just being here and debating people over human nature takes my mind off my unfullfilled sexual orientations.
IrishCarBomb Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Interesting. I thought you were supporting the naturalistic fallacy for sure, but now I see you have a better grip on it. I'll accept that promiscuosness can be an orientation. I didn't get your meaning in the previous context, but I think I get what you're trying to say now. The evolution argument is confusing though. To talk of evolution seems to indicate that this is in all men, but if it's just one orientation that needs to be recognized, it's really not a blanket statement to all men. Have you read The Moral Animal by Robert Wright? Seems like something you might enjoy.
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