squeak Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 Something about that laundry list of things you did for him struck me. In the rare instances i found myself doing that-it precede a great big 'ol devastating break up. In fact-in the past, if a graph was made showing all the sacrifices I made + all the sweet loving things I did* just because* and then compared it to the final pain of the ripped out heart syndrome - a correlation existed. The higher the latter bar, then the higher the former outcome.... That is a nutshell synopsis. Like Capriciossa said, it has got to be tit for tat. I have been on the opposite end of that too, and did the same. Maybe relationships are just games. I can't deny this pattern noted above.
Author sedgwick Posted October 19, 2007 Author Posted October 19, 2007 Squeak, do you mean that when someone gave freely of themselves to you, you left them? I hate to think that the only way to keep the one you love is to deny them things, or to keep score in some way of what you do vs. what they do. I hate to think I'd still be with him if I hadn't treated him so well. That's so depressing...
squeak Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 That was awhile ago and there were other problems too, big ones, nothing similar to what you mentioned in your own experience. I don't think it is as simple as if you hadn't treated him so well, he would still be with you, no-that's not it at all. I think he had issues and only an old timey fiddler would make it through, until he beat her to the ground with subtle put downs. I also think it was going to happen eventually, based on how you described his history. I do think that when a person encounters all that giving, and it is not reciprocated beat by beat, if someone has even a little bit of commitment phobe in them-it kick starts it big time. All of a sudden you are forced to see that this person is really really into you nothing barred, it can bring up the flight mechanism. But-also, for me-when I was experiencing being the giver-it preceded a huge fall so I am just suspicious of that feeling in general. Take me with a grain or tumbler of salt Sedgwick, I'm just superstitious like that. When i think of healthy centered relationships that last over the long haul, usually they didn't have that element in it. That is just my observation. What I am saying is-don't blame yourself! But when I have observed others or done that myself-it ended in a bad crash and burn, almost like it was fated badly from the start. I don't think it was because of too much giving-no-not at all-it was just a sign that the intensity was so high it was bound to crash and burn, someone was going to get hurt.
funkybassplayer Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 It seems that you did everything right, and at the end of the day he still was not happy. this does not nessercerily mean that he had issues, it could be that he trully fell out of love. You always speak of sex in all your replys, sex is a big part of a relationship, but sex and love making are compleatly different, as you know. It could be that this guy maybe was alot more deeper thinking than we are giving credit for, and never felt an emotional conection as much as you thought, and if you dont have that you have nothing. This is nothing to do with you at all, but maybe just maybe, he needed a little more at this time, than what you gave to him. The main thing is, that you have nothing to gain by feeling low, and nothing to blame you or him for. It just ended, and although understanding why will help, It could be a natural end to the relationship, but one that is a shock, and needs to be digested and understood, which will come to you in time as you let go of him. You have to look after you now.
Capricciosa Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 I do think that when a person encounters all that giving, and it is not reciprocated beat by beat, if someone has even a little bit of commitment-phobe in them-it kick starts it big time. All of a sudden you are forced to see that this person is really really into you nothing barred, it can bring up the flight mechanism. . I agree with this 100%. And your guy's pattern was to get what he wanted and then to tear that down piece by piece before he fled. In my last relationship, this was the tactic used on me. Make me feel like "the one", then tore me down, devalued me, which made me try to be "perfect", which no one could do anyway. No matter how much I did, how much I gave, he became meaner, less attentive, and finally horrible (lying, cheating, etc). He needed a way out, and his only way was to devalue me. The more you give a commitment-phobe, the more they will devalue you because it is their only means of protecting themselves from having to commit, from having to deliver. Yours kept it up for a year, and look how it made you feel about yourself. Lesser. Don't give him that power. 6 months was enough to reduce me physically, mentally, creatively. I am still recovering from it all, but the most important part of it is to separate who I thought he was, from who he actually is. And to not be too hard on myself for the measures I took to keep the thing going when I was still under the spell.
Author sedgwick Posted October 19, 2007 Author Posted October 19, 2007 funky: the thing was that we DID have an amazing emotional connection. like, to the point that we would just stare at each other and go, "you're amazing." we had so much in common it was scary -- there were just a million bizarre coincidences. he was so sweet and so into it at first, but he definitely has commitment issues. for example, it took him two weeks to decide to sign with their booking agent, even though all it meant was that he didn't have to be the one to arrange all their gigs anymore. he didn't want someone else to be able to tell him what to do. and at one point when we were together, he got mugged at gunpoint (very scary), and he waffled for a week over whether or not to go to the police, because he didn't want to send another young black man to jail. and then he waffled over whether to go pick the guy out of a lineup. i was like, look, when someone points a gun at you, all bets are off, it doesn't matter if they're black or white or purple. it's your responsibility to do whatever you can to keep him from doing this to someone else. and he'd say, yeah, you're right, that's what everybody keeps telling me, and then the next day he'd be all, but i don't know if i should. he also used to talk about "fomo" -- fear of missing out. it's like he always wants to be somewhere ____er with someone ____er, doing something ____er than he is right now. i can't tell you how many times i heard "i'm going to quit the band," and then the next time i saw him he'd have decided to stay. it was exhausting. but it absolutely was "making love" -- it was about so much more than sex. that's part of what i miss so badly. and cap, i wonder why it is that the really passionate relationships tend to crash and burn. it sucks! i don't want to think that the only person who will ever commit to me is someone to whom i'm not so attracted. sigh...and i'm not glad it happened to you too, because it really sucks, but i'm also sort of glad to hear that there's someone else who's been in this situation and it's not just some flaw in me.
funkybassplayer Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 what tends to happen alot is that as you grow close you bring down each others walls, and that exposes the true self, ie the unsure him. It sounds like he needs time out to be alone and re discover himself. Maybe he could not handle the intense ness of the relationship, and found it hard to cope. some people are like that, when something gets too much they run. but theres a good chance he left the relationship long b4 you knew about it whatever you may have thought. It could be thats hes not ready to take the next level in the relationship of deep commitment, facing fears, and being true just to you. No one is to blame, things just happen, but one thing is that its now about you, and your feelings, and not about what he did and why, cos you have to heal and move forward with your life. Posting here is the best, it helps vent and let go of some of the pain, but the answer to why he walked may be in his head, maybe not, but wondering what you did wrong etc wont help, cos you need to heal from this shock to the system. Maybe in a few weeks, you can talk, and he may explain why, but at the moment i bet he does not even know himeself. Be strong, youll be ok, just make sure you are good to yourself, treat yourself, eat and drink well, its your own body that will heal you, not his or this site. No one is the wrong one, it happens. Acceptance, forgivness, and growth. How you handle this will determine the next part in your life.
Capricciosa Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 f and cap, i wonder why it is that the really passionate relationships tend to crash and burn. it sucks! i don't want to think that the only person who will ever commit to me is someone to whom i'm not so attracted. sigh...and i'm not glad it happened to you too, because it really sucks, but i'm also sort of glad to hear that there's someone else who's been in this situation and it's not just some flaw in me. Yeah, it does suck, and it's made me feel kind of stuck about how to proceed. I have gone for a certain type of man for so long, because that passionate high is there, but now I'm afraid of it because I know the consequences. At the same time (here's some comic relief ), when my Albanian cab driver gave me his phone number on my receipt last night, I thought, no f$#*&ng way. Who knows, he might be a prince, but I will never know because, well you know why. How can you be attracted to what you are not attracted to? Those highly passionate relationships often have an addictive quality to them, so supposedly are unhealthy from the get-go. I've read a lot of books on this subject, as I tend to fall into these crazy passionate, ultimately projection-filled situations with very creative men who don't live up to my expectations, and I obviously don't live up to theirs. I'm suspicious now, and it's sad. But I feel the need to be a little bit safer rather than very very sorry. And I disagree with the guy (sorry, I forget the name) who says no one is to blame. Your ex is to blame for not being more self-aware and mature at his age and making you pay for his waffling with your heart (I would never write anything that cheesy in my books, but hey, it works here and it's true )
funkybassplayer Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 no one is too blame b/c you both did your best in the situation you were both in. The way it turns out is no ones fault, it just did.
ninjaturtles Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 I dont understand when you say no one is to blame....someone leads you on, makes you think that he is so into you, and then decided to leave..making up silly excuses. See, i have dumped people in the past, and even though i made up silly excuses, i knew in my heart that i had hurt and wronged these people. Yes, you cant force someone to have feelings for you, but i dont agree with you saying that its no one;s fault. Relationships are about compromise, accepting imperfection etc. A lot of people just make things more complicated than they really are. I guess ultimately, it burns down to how much the guy really loves you. I say this, because trust me, when you love someone, all these silly excuses are very irrelevant. I guess it just burns down to the fact that he did not love as you as loved him. I also agree with tit for tat..dont do for any man , more than he doea for you. I am a pretty girl in her 20's, and i have discovered that i take so much bull**** from guys. By that i mean that i know i have self esteem problems, usually because i have been cheated on in the past by guys etc..nevertheless, that is going to stop now. Amyway sweetie, you should be working on yourself now...the way i see it is this. you want to get married someday right? well, he probably was not going to marry you anyway, i mean...it would have ended one day and if you had gone on for say one more year, the pain would have been worse. Do you understanding my reasoning? Therefore, just look into the future...I myself im going through a breakup, so i know ow you feel...i am getting better however. stay strong and you wil find someone who loves you the way you love him, someone who will find your imperfections cute, someone who will do for you, what you do for him...i know youmay not believe it but you will. So, work on getting over this guy, and you dont have to rush into anything...with someone else..take out time to actually meditate and work on issues such as self esteem..xxx
BlueEyedSarah Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 sedgwick, your so lucky, I have wanted to be a writer/poet since I was 14! All I can say is its he's loss, don't get in contact with him he really doesn't sound worth it in my opinion. He sounds like another one of the cocky 'fame has gone to my head' stars. He doesnt want to be tied down in a relationship when he has teeny boppers after him and parties and other celebs to meet up with. Keep doing what your doing, be strong! What kind of books do you write? (Romantic, Horror, Mystory, Teen, Childrens?). Have any big sellers?
brothermartin Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 WOW Sedgewick! I wish my ex felt the same way about me as you feel about yours. For some odd reason, we want the other person that shared our lives with us to be just as miserable and broken as we are about them. For all we know, maybe they do. Maybe they are also wishing they could call or write, just to say "Hi. Im sorry I left you and I hope you can forgive me. I miss you a lot and was wondering if we could give it another try?" That would be great! But, it hasnt happened. It likely will not happen. Thats why the dumped usually turn out to be better off in life than the dumper. Because we have so much to prove to ourslves, so much more to overcome. We become the great survivors! The strong! The Navy SEALS of the relationship world!! Look forward to that, partner!
Author sedgwick Posted October 20, 2007 Author Posted October 20, 2007 Aw, you guys, these are such great responses. Thank you. Believe me, I'm definitely hoping that one day he'll be like, wow, I had a tattooed bellydancer who was totally into me and I dumped her. Sarah, he is SO not a rockstar, and for sure there are no teenyboppers. He plays old-time jugband music. The joke is that all their groupies are 80 years old. He seriously is a skinny nearsighted balding dork. I love him beyond reason and I think he's the hottest thing ever ever ever, but he's totally not some guitar-playin' stud. When he broke up with me, my surrogate mom (aka awesome editor friend who's 65) said, "Oh, well, darling, that is NOT a good-looking man." Heh. More for me...or not. I've never in my life loved someone as sincerely as I loved him, never been so overjoyed every time they walked through the door, never tried so hard to be the best possible version of myself. I made a tremendous effort to support him and never nag him or argue with him. When he would go on tour, I'd put little love notes in the pockets of his pants in his suitcase. When he'd come home, I'd have crocheted him weird stuffed animals and left them on his pillow. And still...it just wasn't enough, because I am not an old-time fiddle player. Anyway, I write memoir, and this is my first book. I've had a couple of plays produced, have always been a playwright up to this point. Just had a reading in NYC that was pretty awesome. Literally EVERYBODY tells me they want to be a writer when I tell them I'm one! And I say, "Do it!" Yeah about the meditation...am doing lots of yoga & bellydance while I'm in Mexico...am in a dance company in NYC and I'm trying to stay in shape! Of course all I really want to do is lie in a hammock.
funkybassplayer Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 no one is too blame b/c how the situation was he and you did your best, even if you dont think so. Look at it this way, everyone just wants to be happy, and no one wants sadness really, so even though it was created, sadness, he and you would have still done your best, even if in your eyes you feel he is to blame. No doubt you loved him, and he you, but not at the level that you did, all the bad stuff he did, was cos he was withdrawing from the relationship. B/c it then eneded, it does not me he is too blame, he just never loved you how you wanted him to, cos if he did he would still be with you.
ninjaturtles Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I guess your right about him not loving her the way she loved him..thats the simple truth..if he did,...you would be together.xx hugs.xx
Author sedgwick Posted October 21, 2007 Author Posted October 21, 2007 funky...the deal is that i feel i'm to blame. i was taking banjo lessons when we first got together, but i quit because i got asked to join a dance company. i feel like if i'd kept on, he'd still be with me. i told him i'd go back, but i guess it was just too late, he'd already decided he didn't want me because i wasn't a musician. i tried to tell him that i dance with zils, which is percussion, and that i've taken middle eastern drumming workshops lately to learn how to accompany dancers, but it wasn't the right kind of music -- he needs an old-time musician. i plan to go back to banjo lessons and hope that someday he'll find out i'm playing and consider seeing me again. if only he'd told me that if i quit to join a dance company, he'd leave me...i'd never have joined the dance company. i just feel so stupid.
heartoutside Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 If your ex told you that he would stay with you if you quit your dance company, I would walk the other way. One someone loves you, they love you for what you do for yourself and for what you do for them. They shouldn't have to change you or fix you....period! Don't let you hurt affect how you feel about the things you are passionate about. Your dance and your writting, if anything let it feed into it and help both of them grow! He may have broken your heart, but don't let him break your passion for what you do. I tihnk I said before when my ex first broke up with me, the first thing I thought was I can't do photography anymore, I'm done and I almost walked away. 4 months later, I'm glad I didn't.
brothermartin Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 HEART has said what needed to be said. You seem to really love this man still, but do you think that giving up something that YOU really love because he said so would have saved your relationship with him? I think it would have only postponed the inevitable. You probably would have left HIM after you realized what you had done to yourself. And please, STOP beating yourself up about it! Any man on this site, ANY MAN, would trade his left lung to get the level of love and devotion that YOU have put forth!
Author sedgwick Posted October 21, 2007 Author Posted October 21, 2007 brothermartin, thank you...i wish it had been enough for him. i have never loved anyone so totally and tried so hard to be a good partner to them. that's why it hurts so much that he left. i just keep wondering if he's found someone who's just like me but plays the fiddle, and if she loves him like i did. it sucks when you give someone everything you have and they still leave. it's just hard trying to figure out when it started being a lie. we had such a great night together the night before he dumped me. he was introducing people to me as his girlfriend, and he told me he loved me before we fell asleep. 7 hours later we woke up, went out to breakfast, and he broke up with me. did i mention i didn't eat, cried into my breakfast while he ate his, and then paid half the bill? um yeah. god, i wonder every single day if anyone will ever be able to love me for who i am, if anyone will ever want what i have to give, or if i'm too fat for that to ever happen...god it's such distorted thinking but it still goes through my head!!!! sometimes it really sucks to be female in the western world. you have to constantly try to convince yourself that not all guys want a woman who looks like nicole richie...like, no, no, some of them LIKE boobs! really!!! i do wonder if the fact that he sleeps about 4 hrs a night, tours 8 months out of the year, lives on coffee and cigarettes, and at 6'2" weighs 125 lbs (he's lost 10 lbs since i've known him, not by trying, but he just gets so wrapped up in his bass he forgets to eat) could have anything to do with his mental state. i know, funky, that i write about sex in every post...but i keep thinking of one time when i was doing, y'know, whatever to him, and he said he liked it, and i said, yeah, what else do you like? and he said, "fiddle tunes."
Author sedgwick Posted October 21, 2007 Author Posted October 21, 2007 oh, and heartoutside, i'm bellydancing and writing and doing yoga like crazy (that's a pic from 3 days ago in the icon)...the book is a bit over 3/4 done, i've written 3 chapters in the last month and a half (about 20k words.) book has to be 75-90k words when i hand it in...it's like 60k total right now. so i'm rockin' out on that front. my agent is pretty happy with me, so at least there's that.
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