Weight Training Guidance

[veggie]

I am fairly new to weight training - started with some dumbbells at home last December -- and have just joined a gym. I am totally confused as to the best approach to gaining muscle. The trainer at the gym is recommending a full body (1 set of 15 reps per exercise, with 2 exercises per body part) 5 days a week. This seems like over-training to me but I don't know that I know enough to be sure! She also recommends a lot of isolation exercises.

 

What I am really after is a book that can provide me with some sound routines I can follow. My weight is fine, I am just looking to gain strength and mass (I realize that I am not going to be able to gain unsightly amounts of mass :-) ). But I am totally confused as to the best approach for doing so.

[Bill]

More weight, less reps. <-- Build *MORE* Muscle

Less weight, more reps. <-- Tone Muscles

 

*both will build muscles, but the top one builds more.

 

Also, muscle weighs more than fat.

[Dragonflys]

Body for Life by Bill Phillips

 

I've read a few fitness books, and I found this one to be the clearest and most concise. One word of advice, don't expect to look like some of the 'success stories' overnight. Take your time, its better for your body and you will continue to be motivated while you are gaining.

 

I usually do a heavy and light workout per muscle group every week. I never do one muscle group twice or two heavy workouts on consecutive days.

 

I go four days a week and have a different routine each day.

 

(1) Shoulders and Back (heavy)

(2) Chest and Triceps (heavy)

(3) Shoulders and back (light) + Biceps (heavy)

(3) Chest and Triceps (light)

 

I do six or seven isolation exercises on each day. You can look up suitable isolation exercises in the book.

 

This works for me. Good Luck!!!

 

Oliver

[Ryan]

I am fairly new to weight training - started with some dumbbells at home last December -- and have just joined a gym.

 

 

This is good, as it is typically far too expensive for the average person to get quality equipment, even if it is just free weights.

 

 

The trainer at the gym is recommending a full body (1 set of 15 reps per exercise, with 2 exercises per body part) 5 days a week. This seems like over-training to me but I don't know that I know enough to be sure! She also recommends a lot of isolation exercises.

 

Your initial reaction is a sound one. I'll say this in no uncertain terms: 99.9% of all trainers I've met are complete idiots when it comes to a sensible approach to exercise. At best they are useless...at worst they are dangerous.

 

5 days a week is just plain silly. There is NO reason to train more often than 3x per week. Most people will make optimal progress at 2x per week or less. The futility of very frequent training is self-evident when you consider the following: if weight training is, in itself, good for you, why do you not leave the gym stronger?

 

Let me step back and start from the beginning. You need to understand that PROPER weight training is not about getting huge, nor is it something you do for 6 months just to get in shape for summer. It is THE fundamental element of a valid exercise program with the goal being improvement of general fitness. It is a lifestyle change and something you are willing to dedicate yourself to in order to improve the quality of your life. Maturity and humility are necessary for the mindset of the trainee who really wants to make a difference.

 

Contrast with the following:

 

(1) Shoulders and Back (heavy)

(2) Chest and Triceps (heavy)

(3) Shoulders and back (light) + Biceps (heavy)

(3) Chest and Triceps (light)

 

A routine with ZERO mention of leg training is unacceptable, unless you are paraplegic. The two largest muscle groups in the body (hips and thighs) are omitted. This is the training routine of someone far more concerned with image than with substance. This is far from good advice.

 

If you want to continue this discussion, I'm more than willing to lay out the principles of sound training. It is your job to want to learn and apply with the proper mindset.

[Dragonflys]

These are my upper body exercises and the only ones I do in the gym.

 

For the legs I run once a week and play tennis twice per week.

 

I agree with Ryan that to succeed with fitness one must incorporate the gym into a healthy lifestyle. I never spend more that 45 minutes in the gym per day. Any more results in diminishing returns both physically and mentally.

 

Oliver

[veggie]

Ryan wrote: If you want to continue this discussion, I'm more than willing to lay out the principles of sound training. It is your job to want to learn and apply with the proper mindset.

 

I would love to hear your principles. I have done a lot of reading and have an intuitve sense of what I want to do but I don't know if my intuition is correct. I think I want to favor compound movements and train 2-3 times per week but there are so many conflicting "expert" opinions that it's hard to know whether this is sensible or productive. I don't mind working hard but I don't want to spend 7+ hours a week at the gym and not make progress, either.

 

Thanks!

[Ryan]

For the legs I run once a week and play tennis twice per week.

 

Unacceptable.

This is inferior training for these crucial areas of the body. You're falling into the traps of fitness fallacies.

[Ryan]

there are so many conflicting "expert" opinions that it's hard to know whether this is sensible or productive. I don't mind working hard but I don't want to spend 7+ hours a week at the gym and not make progress, either.

 

This is very true and very exasperating for a new trainee. So very many people label themselves gurus in the field of fitness. So very few of them have any functional knowledge of physiology. Certifications are largely a joke, which leaves us little in the way of governing bodies in this field.

 

 

I would love to hear your principles.

 

I come from the school of thought known as HIT (High Intensity Training). It is not a specific routine, but rather principles based on science and logic. One of the important MENTAL aspects of HIT is understanding why we do what we do. There's no reason for you to believe what I say simply because I say it. It should make sense to YOU. If it doesn't, keep asking questions. We are all about expansion of knowledge.

 

That being said, there are 4 basic principles to HIT: intensity, brevity, infrequency, and safety.

 

INTENSITY - The point of exercise is to make inroads into the capabilities of the body. Exercise serves only as a stimulus for change; it does nothing for you in itself. We want that stimulus to be a profound one, so it is necessary that we challenge the capabilities of our body. This means training HARD. There are no "light" days in HIT. We want to shake homeostasis to the ground and threaten that which our body adapts to achieve: survival.

 

BREVITY - Since we have finite amounts of energy, it is not possible to train hard AND long. Thermodynamics prevents it. Moreso, we have no desire to train at length. Our purpose is to generate the necessary stimulus and be done. The goal is to determine the amount of exercise we NEED, not the amount we can TOLERATE. Thus, training sessions tend to be brief (30-45 minutes) with a focus on compound movements and moving quickly between sets.

 

INFREQUENCY - As I mentioned before, exercise is just a stimulus for bodily change. Furthermore, exercise is a NEGATIVE thing. It is a stressor on the body. In order for benefits to be reaped, the body must be given an environment that allows for recovery and adaptation. This means adequate nutrients and REST. Since our stimulus is a significant one, it is important to allow sufficient intervals between training. This is why we recommend no less than 48 hours between training sessions. I've found that most people will find their optimal frequecy in the range of 3-7 days between training sessions.

 

SAFETY - This may be last, but it is the most important. No activity is valid as exercise if done in an unsafe manner. Before any degree of high intensity is generated, it is required that form is learned and refined. All movements are done in a slow, controlled manner. Any inherently unsafe movements (such as power cleans) are not recommended, and movements that may be problematic for a given individual's biomechanics require evaluation and possible contraindication. One of the benefits of exercise is injury prevention, so it is not sensible to choose activities that degrade the very body we are trying to improve.

 

 

Those are the 4 basic tenets of HIT. Hopefully you'll have some questions, which are encouraged. Later we will get to the reasoning why proper weight training is the single best activity for improving general fitness, as well as some real-life stories of people (myself and those I train) who do HIT.

[veggie]

Originally posted by Ryan

It should make sense to YOU. If it doesn't, keep asking questions. We are all about expansion of knowledge.

 

What you wrote does make sense to me. In large part because I know too many people who spend many hours at the gym each week with no real effect. And also because my understanding is that exercise itself breaks down the muscle and that it is during the recovery period when increases are made.

 

Are there any books you'd recommend? I have been tempted to get books by Stuart McRoberts, who seems to stress harder, less frequent training, with an emphasis on compound movements and form. I rally need some help in determining what exercises/movements to focus on and in what sort of routine.

 

Also, I am curious: what are your thoughts on aerobic exercise -- walking, running, etc.?

[Ryan]

Are there any books you'd recommend? I have been tempted to get books by Stuart McRoberts, who seems to stress harder, less frequent training, with an emphasis on compound movements and form. I rally need some help in determining what exercises/movements to focus on and in what sort of routine.

 

Stuart McRobert is from the Hardgainer camp, which is very similar to HIT (basically the same for our discussions). I think he is a good author, but he can get repetitive in general terms without taking time to elaborate. Nonetheless, "Brawn" and "Beyond Brawn" are good mindset books. For a better book regarding technique, look for his "The Insider's Tell-All Handbook on Weight-Training Technique." That would probably serve you best.

 

Other authors I like are Mike Mentzer, Ken Hutchins, and Arthur Jones. You probably won't find anything in circulation by the latter. Mentzer ties philosophical logic and objectivism into his writings, while Hutchins tends to write at a more advanced scientific level. You can browse some of their articles online before you decide to purchase anything.

 

Here are some links:

 

http://www.hardgainer.com/

http://www.mikementzer.com/

http://www.superslow.com/

 

As for choosing movements, keep in mind that there are only 3 basic compound motions: upper body push, upper body pull, and compound hip/thigh. Typically, 1-2 movements for each of those will be sufficient. I will outline later a "skeleton" routine I tend to start with when designing a program. Here are the options in those categories. Keep in mind there are many variations of these movements and I'm not suggesting you do ALL of them in a given session.

 

Upper Body Push: chest/bench press, overhead press, dips

Upper Body Pull: chins, pulldowns, rows

Hip/Thigh: Squats, deadlifts, leg press

 

 

Also, I am curious: what are your thoughts on aerobic exercise -- walking, running, etc.?

 

That which is considered "aerobic exercise" is not exercise at all, nor is it particularly aerobic. It fails miserably when evaluated against the 5 areas of general fitness and the criteria required to improve them. Furthermore, most of the activities people engage in are inherently dangerous.

 

That being said, there is a place for such activity. If you like going for a walk, do it. If you like doing a few laps in the pool or playing soccer, go for it. Having a recreationally active lifestyle is something I encourage, but keep in mind this is RECREATION. Activities that are done for purposes of enjoyment are not exercise. Exercise is not entertainment The sensations involved with exercise would not be fun to any but the most masochistic.

[veggie]

Thanks again, Ryan. Can you stand a couple more questions?

 

One is: Is it possible to get an effective workout at home with minimal space and equipment? If so, what is the recommended equipment?

 

Two: What sort of routine do you recommend? I've looked at the hardgainer site and I've read SuperSlow but I am still a little at a loss as to the actual program that would be best.

[Ryan]

Thanks again, Ryan. Can you stand a couple more questions?

 

As many as you can stand to ask.

 

 

One is: Is it possible to get an effective workout at home with minimal space and equipment? If so, what is the recommended equipment?

 

It can be done, but the equipment will be entirely free weights. There's nothing bad about that, but it does limit some of your exercise choices and make it even more critical to learn proper form. It's still going to cost you several hundred dollars to get a good bar, a set of weights, and at least a squat rack. It's not something I generally recommend for rank beginners.

 

 

 

Two: What sort of routine do you recommend? I've looked at the hardgainer site and I've read SuperSlow but I am still a little at a loss as to the actual program that would be best.

 

You probably noticed little mention of actual routines. While this may be frustrating, keep in mind that we are about principles first...then refined to a routine. There's nothing really cookie-cutter about it.

 

That being said, I will offer what I consider to be a "skeleton core" for a routine. It's generally a good starting point in order to learn the biomechanics of a trainee while still being comprehensive and brief. It goes something like this:

 

Chest orbench press (any variation)

Pulldowns or chins

Overhead press

Rows

Squats or deadlifts or leg press

Misc. isolation movements (calf raises, crunches, neck, etc)

 

The order of the first 4 can be adjusted, just so long as it alternates push and pull. The leg movement can be done prior to the upper body movements as well. The last line is for various supplementary movements that might be useful. Usually I start people with calf raises and weighted crunches. All movements are done for 1 set each.

 

 

You should still have questions.....like how to perform a repetition.

[veggie]

Originally posted by Ryan

 

You should still have questions.....like how to perform a repetition.

 

Ok, I'll bite. How do I perform a repetition? I know that I should be able to maintain form throughout while using as much weight as I can bear. If I can't maintain form, then the weight is too high. Or is this wrong? And while we're at it, how many repetitions and sets should I be doing?

 

When will I be ready for a routine <g> ? I think I tend to try to do too much when left to my own devices (and this is probably self-defeating).

[Ryan]

Ok, I'll bite. How do I perform a repetition? I know that I should be able to maintain form throughout while using as much weight as I can bear. If I can't maintain form, then the weight is too high. Or is this wrong?

 

That's the gist of it. I'll give you some more specifics to aim for...so you aren't in the land of vague. All good repetitions are performed in a slow, controlled manner. For new trainees, I typically recommend they do a 4 count for each stroke of a repetition. That means 4 on the positive and 4 on the negative. You'll do pretty good with that. You should also breathe as often as necessary - NEVER HOLD YOUR BREATH. You should never be ending a set with a forceful exhale - breathing MUST be free and natural during all training. Do not be worried about inhaling or exhaling at certain points during the repetition. It is also important to make transition points smooth. This applies to the top and bottom of any repetition. You should ease into the transition and smoothly change directions without any bouncing or sharp movements. It should also be noted that you do not fully extend your elbows or knees in a movement where that is the positive portion of the movement. You should stop JUST shy of joint lock to avoid putting the stress on the skeletal system and taking it off the muscular system. This should apply to chest/bench press, overhead press, and leg press.

 

Also, do not cut your range short. Move through the fullest range of motion possible without breaking form or feeling pain (do not confuse the discomfort of true exercise for pain). It will be very easy to have a good ROM as a beginner, because the weights won't be that challenging. This is part of developing good form.

 

 

And while we're at it, how many repetitions and sets should I be doing?

 

There really isn't a given number of reps that is best. A good (albeit somewhat arbitrary) number to start with is 10, so aim to do 10 for each set. The only variation would be the compound leg movement, in which I would recommend 15. I would say do no more than 2 sets of your upper body movements. 1 set for the compound leg movement and 1 set each for miscellaneous isolation movements is sufficient. Once you can reach your target repetitions (10, 15 for legs), you are ready to add weight (5lbs) at your next workout. If you can't complete the target reps, you stay at the weight. As you move from form-learning to actual hard training, you'll probably be fine with 1 set for all movements.

 

 

When will I be ready for a routine

 

You're ready now (with a bit more discussion). You just need a good 3-4 weeks of building up to challenging weights. You're going to start with light weights - almost ridiculously light weights (like 20lbs). Your initial workouts will be pretty easy. You'll hit the target reps and be done. Next time out, you'll be adding 5lbs to everything. This will allow things to get gradually harder while you "learn" the movements and focus on your form. Once you get to the point where you really have to struggle to get those 10 (or 15) reps, we'll talk more about intensity and progression.

 

 

Keep asking questions.

[veggie]

Originally posted by Ryan

NEVER HOLD YOUR BREATH. You should never be ending a set with a forceful exhale - breathing MUST be free and natural during all training. Do not be worried about inhaling or exhaling at certain points during the repetition.

 

Interesting. The trainer at the gym keeps telling me to be sure to exhale on the negative phase of the movement, which makes me have to spend a ton of focus thinking about breathing rather than just breathing. Glad to hear you say that I can just breathe!

 

You should ease into the transition and smoothly change directions without any bouncing or sharp movements. It should also be noted that you do not fully extend your elbows or knees in a movement where that is the positive portion of the movement. You should stop JUST shy of joint lock to avoid putting the stress on the skeletal system and taking it off the muscular system.

 

Hey, I knew that!! :-)

 

Once you can reach your target repetitions (10, 15 for legs), you are ready to add weight (5lbs) at your next workout.

 

Ok, the gym does not have 5lb increments, but 15 (on legs) or 10 (on upper body). So what I've done is this: when the current weight becomes too easy, I increase to the next available and drop my repetitions to however many I can do and still maintain form. Then I work on increasing reps. I don't know any other way to hande this but I am open to suggestion.

[Ryan]

Interesting. The trainer at the gym keeps telling me to be sure to exhale on the negative phase of the movement, which makes me have to spend a ton of focus thinking about breathing rather than just breathing. Glad to hear you say that I can just breathe!

 

It is common for misguided trainers to recommend people inhale and/or exhale for a given stroke of a repetition. The main problem with that is....there's no way to move slowly and do that. Maybe at first, when weights are light, you won't be breathing that hard. Once you get to the point where you are really challenging yourself, you will be taking several breaths per STROKE. It makes no sense to force your breathing to match your movement. Your body doesn't know nor care where you are in the repetition - it just knows that it needs oxygen in and CO2 out. People often assign much more consciousness to our bodies than there really is.

 

 

Ok, the gym does not have 5lb increments, but 15 (on legs) or 10 (on upper body). So what I've done is this: when the current weight becomes too easy, I increase to the next available and drop my repetitions to however many I can do and still maintain form. Then I work on increasing reps. I don't know any other way to hande this but I am open to suggestion.

 

This is unacceptable. 10 pound jumps now will impede your ability to learn good form and stay in a narrow repetition range. I'm over 300lbs on my major lifts and I STILL only go in 5lb increments. I assume you are using selectorized machines (weight stack that you put a pin in). Most places will have some sort of 5lb plastic weights you can put on the top of the stack so you can move in smaller increments. If they don't, start looking at other equipment or maybe even another facility. I highly recommend plate-loading equipment made by Hammer Strength. Their equipment is very smooth and allows for any increment of weight you want, plus it is common. We may need to pursue some free weight options as well. It's important to pick equipment that allows gradual and safe progression and performance. It doesn't matter WHAT that equipment is...whether it be a machine, a barbell, or a bucket full of gravel.

[veggie]

Thanks so much for all your advice, Ryan. I am going to spend some time at the gym and see if I can get into a good groove. I will probably be back with more questions in a couple of weeks.

 

You have been a tremendous help. Thanks again.

[Ryan]

Please do come back with more questions and topics to discuss. You should have plenty whirling in your mind once you get to the point of actually challenging yourself.

[veggie]

I've been going to the gym 2-3 times per week, with 3-4 days between sessions. I'm now doing 2 sets of 12 reps on everything except abs. What's weird is that I don't seem able to maintain progress. For instance, I'll up the weight on a given machine and be fine with it for 2 sessions and then be unable to continue at that weight on session 3. This never happened before I started going to the gym and it has me totally baffled. Any insights??

[Ryan]

List out exactly what you are doing....movements, sets, reps, and rest periods.

 

Then I will discuss the possibilities as to why this is happening.

[Just A Girl2]

Gee Ryan, what exactly are the credentials behind this inspiring fitness advice you're always doling out? You come across as being some kind of "expert", very sure of your info......so what exactly are your credentials, I don't see them listed.

[veggie]

Originally posted by Ryan

List out exactly what you are doing....movements, sets, reps, and rest periods.

 

Then I will discuss the possibilities as to why this is happening.

 

Here goes. I am doing 2 sets at the same weight (I'd ultimately like to do a modified pyramid), with about 2 minutes between sets. I am listing these in the order I do them.

 

Squats - 30lb/15 reps

Leg Press - 95lb/12 reps

Leg ext. - 45lb/12 reps

Leg curl (seated) - 80lb/12 reps

Inner Thigh - 80lb/12 reps

Outer Thigh - 60lb/12 reps

 

Body Master (this is an assisted chin/dip thingy) - 120lbs/12 reps (first set as chin; 2nd set as dip)

Seated bench press - 35lb/12 reps

Cybex (shoulders - lateral raise type thing) - 25lb/12 reps

Shoulder press - 20lb/12 reps

Upper Back - 30lb/12 reps

Triceps press - 60lb/12 reps

Biceps curls - 12/21reps (7 full curls, 7 from midpoint to top and 7 from bottom to midpoint)

Ecarion (abs) - 20lb/20 reps

Leg raises - 15 reps

Crunches - 25 reps/3 sets

Low back - 110lb/15 reps

 

I think that's it. For what it's worth, I am having the hardest time maintaining consistency with the lower body work.

[Ryan]

Gee Ryan, what exactly are the credentials behind this inspiring fitness advice you're always doling out? You come across as being some kind of "expert", very sure of your info......so what exactly are your credentials, I don't see them listed.

 

I don't have any on-paper credentials. I'm not interested in the majority of certifications out there, since the majority of organizations that offer them are promoting unfounded/illogical/unsafe activity. The area of human fitness/physiology is more of a hobby that I have studied for the past 4 years.

 

I've never called myself an expert. I'd be better labeled as a know-it-more than a know-it-all. I'm open to all comers who wish to discuss and debate these matters. I've been doing so for years and confounding many who felt they were well informed.

 

 

 

Here goes. I am doing 2 sets at the same weight (I'd ultimately like to do a modified pyramid), with about 2 minutes between sets. I am listing these in the order I do them.

 

Is this what you do EVERY workout?!?!

[veggie]

Originally posted by Ryan

Is this what you do EVERY workout?!?!

 

Uhhh... yes.

 

[i think I'm in for it now!]

[veggie]

I'm only working out 2-3 times per week (2 is more typical, i.e., Mon and Thurs).

 

For whatever that is worth.