Porn question

[Ladyjane14]

I have fallen out of love with him and am seriously trying to find that love I once had for him.

 

If this is what you really want, then you're going to have to pull out all the stops to get it. IME, it's completely do-able for two people to rediscover their love for each other. But... it has to be mutual. Both partners have to want it and be willing to work at it. They have to put away their resentments for one another, forgive each other, and clean the slate.

 

I'm of the opinion that love isn't always readily available. Willard Harley of Marriagebuilders refers to the love supply as a "Love Bank", Gary Chapman, author of The Five Love Languages, calls it a "Love Tank". Same principle. If your "bank" or "tank" is full... you've got a ready supply of love.

 

Now, a few years ago, I would have probably told you that I didn't have ANY romantic love for my husband. I'd have described my love for him as "familial", like the love you'd have for a family member. He'd have said the same about me. But today, we're very much "in love".

 

It's my guess that the reason love came back for us is that it was never really gone. I think sometimes your love can be blocked by resentments. So, if you picture your love as a river, and the resentments as big ole logs jamming up your love flow, you can kind of visualize what that means. Love slows down to a trickle.

 

All that said, I do believe that sometimes the love is gone. Sometimes, the "bank/tank" is broken beyond recovery. But there's just no way to know it unless you clean up the relationship first. There's no way to tell what you've got left until AFTER you've dealt with the more red-hot emotions that are getting in your way. It's hard to feel softer emotions like Love when Anger and Resentment are blazing away in the foreground.

 

His anger problems started about 6 years ago. I am not sure exactly what led to them. First I had thought it was I, but now I know I am not totally to blame. Our marriage was awesome to begin with and then changed a few years into it. He did marry me when I already had one son, so he had a ready made family. We never really had alone time. Then we had our last son 8 years ago. Since he was young his anger has been a problem. Name calling, out bursts, etc.

 

As Cranium pointed out earlier, depression oftentimes presents as anger in men. Your husband has a long history of angry behavior, but that doesn't mean he can't have developed depression on top of it. I would think that a depression screening is in order. He can see his medical doctor for that.

 

This last Feb. we have hit rock bottom. I told him I was out and he cried and said he would go to counseling. We tried it individually as the counselor recommended first. She told me I needed to pack my bags and leave. She didn't say much to him. We opted not to go back to her.

 

Therapists are just like any other people... some are more talented than others. It's sometimes necessary to meet with several before you find a good fit. Don't let that one bad experience hold you back. I really do think you two are going to need some guidance to get through the process.

 

I tried talking with my pastor but felt extreme guilt after that. What I mean by guilt is since I have fallen out of love with my H, I have thought of being with someone else. I just have so much resentment towards him.

 

Is this a specific person that you're interested in? Because if it is... Infatuation, when present, is an even bigger "log" blocking the love supply than Anger and Resentment. It colors EVERYTHING. If you've got your head turned by someone else, your situation cannot be resolved satisfactorily until after you've put your full attention on it.

 

It is very hard to be attracted to someone who treats you like sh*t. He has now been really trying and doing nice things etc. But I don't know if it is too late???

 

Well, he's got to stop treating you "like sh*t" obviously, but once he's accomplished that... you have to give him a chance to prove he can stay with it. What's more, you've got to take it a step further and be just as considerate and kind to him as you want him to be with you, and then YOU have to stay with it.

 

I just don't think I want to spend the rest of my life with him. I always told myself that when the kids graduate high school, I was gone. That is another 9 years and that is a very long time.

 

And you can't do any of that until you decide it's REALLY what you want. This dynamic right here has to change. Your inner mantra of "I want out" is self-fruitful, so a NEW one must be selected.

 

The porn thing is just one of the things that has torn our marriage apart. He doesn't understand why it bothers me so. Like I said before, it is the "teen" thing. It just makes me sick to my stomach. When I am intimate with him, I feel nauseated. Partly because I am not "in love" with him. I so long for that love again.

 

I don't blame you a bit on that score. It's disgusting for a grown man to want to look at teenage girls in a sexual way. Even the fact that most of them are over the age of consent doesn't fix it for me.

So, if you want to dump his ASS on that basis, personally, I believe you're well within your rights to do so.

 

But.... you can't have it both ways. Tommy is telling you right. You have to treat the WHOLE relationship. Either you want to repair the marriage, or you don't. If you do, a state of mutual forgiveness MUST be achieved, in which the slate is cleaned of every previous transgression committed by either of you. This leaves you starting fresh, and puts that which belongs in the past... in the past. People can, and do, sometimes change. You have to be willing to believe the best of your mate.

 

You know, it's not important that he "understand" why you feel the way you do about "teen" porn. It's important that he ACCEPTS and RESPECTS it. We can't feel other people's feelings. He'll never "feel" what you feel. Same as you'll never feel exactly what he feels. But... if this is a boundary, if this is what it takes to keep you investing in the relationship, then that's what he's got to pony up in order to be in a marriage with you.

 

When he was eyeing the porn, we hadn't been intimate for maybe 3 weeks???? He thought that was soooo long and that it led him to look at it. Is that really that long of a time when you have been married for almost 9 years?????

 

What was he doing during those three weeks to resolve the emotional issues preventing intimacy?

If your answer is 'Nothing'... then I think it drives home the need for outside counseling. He doesn't understand the connection between sexual intimacy and emotional intimacy. And nothing you've said here convinces me that he's going to accept that information from you. Rather, I think it'll take a third party to convince him of the gravity of it.

[JamesM]

It is very hard to be attracted to someone who treats you like sh*t. He has now been really trying and doing nice things etc. But I don't know if it is too late??? I just don't think I want to spend the rest of my life with him. I always told myself that when the kids graduate high school, I was gone. That is another 9 years and that is a very long time.

 

The porn thing is just one of the things that has torn our marriage apart. He doesn't understand why it bothers me so. Like I said before, it is the "teen" thing. It just makes me sick to my stomach. When I am intimate with him, I feel nauseated. Partly because I am not "in love" with him. I so long for that love again.

 

When he was eyeing the porn, we hadn't been intimate for maybe 3 weeks???? He thought that was soooo long and that it led him to look at it. Is that really that long of a time when you have been married for almost 9 years?????

 

Thanks for everyone's input!!

 

If you are already out the door in your mind, then to fix the marriage, you need to come back in your mind. You want the "in love" feeling yet you are thinking of the day you can leave. These two thoughts don't go together.

 

I cannot give better advice than what LJ has given. She has said all of what was on my mind and much more. As a guy, I think she understands "our" viewpoint as well.

 

He should not be looking at teen porn if it bothers you, but I am guessing that if your marriage needs that much work, then he is not going to quit because you want him to quit. I think the big problem in your mind may stem from the fact that you can never be that young again. If he looked at women your age, then you know you coould compete. Then you can see the porn as a replacement...not as a perversion. And it is totally understandable that these images will get in the way of your sex with him. While I don't think that you need to have sex five times a week, I do think that if you do not enjoy sex, then you have a bigger problem than just him looking at teen porn.

 

(BTW, I disagree with LJ...probably the first time I disagree with her . As a man who is in his 40s, it is hard to explain to people that in my mind I am not in my 40s. Yes, I know intellectually that I am there, but when it comes to looking at naked women, I can't say that I look at the women in their 20s as "daughters." In my mind all naked adult women are my age. In fact, when I TALK to a woman who is in her 20s, I can easily still think I am in my 20s...even if SHE thinks I am the age of her dad. So, he may like these younger looking women, but I am guessing that it is not as if he is looking at "children." This is why so many men who reach their forties chase after the younger woman to "regain their youth." )

 

Your problems go much deeper than the porn. I think that if you want to regain the "in love" feeling, then you will need counseling, date nights, and respect for one another. (The fact that he calls you names shows his lack of respect. I wonder if he will regain that respect.)

 

And as I said, having sex five times a week is not "necessary." Fact is...that would be too much for me. But having sex every three weeks is not enough in a healthy marriage...UNLESS both partners think it is enough. Having personally gone for a number of months without sex during our lowest times, I can understand why he can feel anger and use porn. But I also don't think that if you increased sex to five times a week that your marital problems would magically disappear. It will take much more than that. And as long as you do it out of duty, he will realize that you do not do it out of love. And if he was doing everythign he could to show his love, then he could expect more sex. However, sex is not just a mechanical release of pleasure...it is a mutual expression of love. Both partners need to feel that love to express that love.

 

So....marriage counseling and communication...or this marriage is over.

[Zona76]

I wont quote anyone as it makes the reading too long.

Watching porn does not make you an adulterer/adulteress anymore than watching a crime movie will make you a criminal.

It's entertainment. Enough said!

I would strongly suggest he not download from porn sites regardless of his firewall. These sites contain a lot of Trojans(and I don't mean condoms)

Very bad for the computer.

Child Porn IS a big NO-NO. Traps are often set and if found on your PC you can be arrested.

[jtalia]

Wow. Thank you guys for all the input. Really, I never looked at it from all those angles. I guess that is why it helps to have others advice.

 

I can't have it both ways. I don't know if I want to stay married, but I don't know if I want to leave him. I guess why I am scared to go is because of starting over and being a single mom.

 

Yes, there is one particular individual I am interested in LJ. He and I both have grown distant from our spouses and have discussed these issues. I know that I cannot give my marriage the attention it needs when I am focused on him.

 

I guess I have way more problems in our marriage than just the porn issue. And I don't think I am competing with the girls in their 20's. I am 33 and feel I act and look like I am still in my 20's. (Although I may be sadly mistaken).

 

LJ-you were very insightful. Are you sure you are not a counselor??

 

I am not "content" with my no sex policy. I love sex and thoroughly enjoy it. Love to have it frequently. BUT I find it very hard to when his anger gets the best of him. Not really wanting to be intimate when I have been called names all day long. Guess I need to work on forgiving him and letting go of the resentment. He has been trying and I do need to give him a chance. Maybe I have alot more fixin on my end????

[RollMeAway]

What was he doing during those three weeks to resolve the emotional issues preventing intimacy?

If your answer is 'Nothing'... then I think it drives home the need for outside counseling. He doesn't understand the connection between sexual intimacy and emotional intimacy. And nothing you've said here convinces me that he's going to accept that information from you. Rather, I think it'll take a third party to convince him of the gravity of it.

 

What was he doing? Sounds like we know that. But while he was getting his needs met thru porn, what was SHE doing?

 

I am really surprised at how the majority of posts in this thread strive to stoke the original poster's ego and seem to easily write off the man looking at porn as the cause of the problems...

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Cobra_X30]

It is very hard to be attracted to someone who treats you like sh*t. He has now been really trying and doing nice things etc. But I don't know if it is too late??? I just don't think I want to spend the rest of my life with him. I always told myself that when the kids graduate high school, I was gone. That is another 9 years and that is a very long time.

 

The porn thing is just one of the things that has torn our marriage apart. He doesn't understand why it bothers me so. Like I said before, it is the "teen" thing. It just makes me sick to my stomach. When I am intimate with him, I feel nauseated. Partly because I am not "in love" with him. I so long for that love again.

 

When he was eyeing the porn, we hadn't been intimate for maybe 3 weeks???? He thought that was soooo long and that it led him to look at it. Is that really that long of a time when you have been married for almost 9 years?????

 

Ok, if the guy is trying... if he is really putting out an effort. Why wall him out?

 

Lets get honest... the teen thing is pointless. It would be the same deal if he watched granny porn or something! I means next to nothing. And yes 3 weeks is a long bloody time. 3 days is a long time!

 

See Im not hearing his side of the story... but I can kind of infer it from your overall attitude.

 

So, your at a point where you need to decide do you want to make this marraige work? Or do you just want an excuse to leave?

[Ladyjane14]

As a man who is in his 40s, it is hard to explain to people that in my mind I am not in my 40s. Yes, I know intellectually that I am there, but when it comes to looking at naked women, I can't say that I look at the women in their 20s as "daughters." In my mind all naked adult women are my age. In fact, when I TALK to a woman who is in her 20s, I can easily still think I am in my 20s...even if SHE thinks I am the age of her dad. So, he may like these younger looking women, but I am guessing that it is not as if he is looking at "children." This is why so many men who reach their forties chase after the younger woman to "regain their youth." )

 

See, I don't find ANYTHING interesting in 18, 19, or 20 year-old boys. Even those who are aesthetically pleasing are of no more interest to me than a still-life painted bowl of fruit. Intellectually, and regardless of innate intelligence, they have nothing to offer that I'd find appealing due to their lack of life experience. Sexually, it's not even really a matter of taboo for me. They're just literally invisible.

 

This may be a difference between men and women. But to be honest, if this is what men are... I have to wonder why we women bother with them at all. I want a partner who's emotionally mature, one who can differentiate between adult and fledgling. If the "fledgling" is acceptable to him... then he can't fully appreciate me or equal me in partnership. To my mind, he lacks the maturity to keep pace with me.

 

Also... something like this triggers every mama-bear instinct I have. In no uncertain terms, I'd RUIN a 40 year-old who messed with my 18 year-old daughter. I certainly wouldn't want to be married to one just like him.

 

I dunno. You guys tell me. Because if THIS is what men are, I've been talking out my ass for the last couple of years. If THIS is all there is to A MAN... I'd just as soon beat a hasty trail down to the courthouse and file divorce myself.

 

I'm hoping that I've misunderstood your point, James.

Because I don't feel in any ways threatened by an 18 year-old girl's body. My concern is that if a man cannot value a real woman for the total package, then his interest is only skin-deep and not to be taken seriously, certainly not something I'd waste my God-given time on.

[Ladyjane14]

Yes, there is one particular individual I am interested in LJ. He and I both have grown distant from our spouses and have discussed these issues. I know that I cannot give my marriage the attention it needs when I am focused on him.

 

Thanks for the compliment, JT... but no, I'm not a counselor. Just sharing out my experience like so many other of these good folks.

 

This part of your post above, is likely to cause a failure to any attempt at reconciliation right out of the box. It's just not possible to fully engage in your marriage if your attention is divided. An outside attraction, or worse... an Infatuation will color EVERYTHING. It taints ALL the data and makes it impossible for you to come to any kind of informed decision.

 

My recommendation to you would be that you END your association with this outside party completely. Even if it's just a friendship, you don't have room in your life for it just now, because it can cause you to make a mistake. One way or the other, you need clarity of mind. This decision affects your entire family. For their sakes, you need to arrive at whatever conclusion you decide fairly.

 

Think about it this way... Whatever you do half-assed can only come out "half-assed". You need to put your whole ass on the line here. 100% effort, no holding back. It is only THEN, that you'll be able to move forward completely confident in whatever decision you make.

[Cobra_X30]

I'm hoping that I've misunderstood your point, James.

Because I don't feel in any ways threatened by an 18 year-old girl's body. My concern is that if a man cannot value a real woman for the total package, then his interest is only skin-deep and not to be taken seriously, certainly not something I'd waste my God-given time on.

 

LJ, there are some points you really miss here.

 

Men do value all of those things, you are a total package in a mans eyes. However, while you value experience, Men typically dont.

 

Lets take the current situation as a good example. Yes this guy is looking at nude pictures of younger women. Why? Is it because that is what he secretly wants?

 

Or maybe he is upset with his wife... who is consistently rejecting and devalueing him. Maybe he is looking for something that wont remind him of the emotional abuse he is recieving at home???

[JamesM]

See, I don't find ANYTHING interesting in 18, 19, or 20 year-old boys. Even those who are aesthetically pleasing are of no more interest to me than a still-life painted bowl of fruit.

 

This may be a difference between men and women. But to be honest, if this is what men are... I have to wonder why we women bother with them at all. I want a partner who's emotionally mature, one who can differentiate between adult and fledgling.

 

Also... something like this triggers every mama-bear instinct I have. In no uncertain terms, I'd RUIN a 40 year-old who messed with my 18 year-old daughter. I certainly wouldn't want to be married to one just like him.

 

I dunno. You guys tell me. Because if THIS is what men are, I've been talking out my ass for the last couple of years. If THIS is all there is to A MAN... I'd just as soon beat a hasty trail down to the courthouse and file divorce myself.

 

I'm hoping that I've misunderstood your point, James.

 

My concern is that if a man cannot value a real woman for the total package, then his interest is only skin-deep and not to be taken seriously, certainly not something I'd waste my God-given time on.

 

You did and didn't misunderstand my post. I was referring to porn... not real women. When it comes to dating a real woman...if I were single, there is no way that a young girl who is less than 30 would be attractive to me. Fact. The whole package...looks and personality...that comes with a girl under 30 is not something that is appealing to me. I am sure that other men see it differently, but most men will say that they cannot relate to someone who has so many different interests. But we are talking about looking at pics/videos. And men who look at porn certainly are not worried about the personality or the mother bear. They ARE only looking at the girl because they only care about her "skin deep."

 

When you talk about these 18 and 19 year olds boys, you mention that they are nothing more than a still life with nothing more. Men who like looking at 18 and 19 yr old girls (and I am not saying that this is me...so please don't come looking for ME ) are only looking at their looks. Men can be turned on by visuals as you well know. Any fantasies about these young girls has nothing to do with these girls as people. This IS a difference between men and women...good or bad.

 

Are all men like this? No. And ask any man who looks at porn....how would you feel if that was YOUR daughter and other men were looking at her? Not many...if any...would be for it. And that is why many men cannot look at teen porn, go to strip clubs with young women, or flirt with a girl young enough to be a daughter.

 

(Way off topic here...I remember seeing a documentary on 20/20 about Belladonna, a porn star unknown to me at the time. They interviewed her and her mother and why she was a porn actress. By the end, Belladonna was going to leave porn. She did briefly and then returned. And she not only did "normal" porn, she returned and did some of the more perverse types. My point is...as I watched this interview and began to realize that this girl had a personality and feelings, I could never view her as "just a porn star." That is why men CAN look at girls young enough to be daughters...they don't think about them as anything more than a picture or an actress. No feelings or personality. Think of "To Catch a Predator" on Dateline NBC. I have seen many of these, and every man who is asked if they would let a man visit their own daughter says no.).

 

Men do value women as "the whole package." Men do want to date women for more than just sex. Well, at least most men. And most men want a woman who is near to their age. Personally, I can say that women who are in their thirties appeal to me...looks and personality. But I am in my 40s. Should I be looking at women are in their 30s if I am Michael Douglas at 65? Should he have married a woman 25 years younger?

 

Sorry if my POV was disappointing to you. Remember, I am trying to explain why this guy may be looking at 18 or 19 yr olds. This may not be every man's POV, because not every man likes "teen porn." I don't think you need to look at every man differently now, because most men DO have problems with porn that features women so much younger than they are.

[JamesM]

Or maybe he is upset with his wife... who is consistently rejecting and devalueing him. Maybe he is looking for something that wont remind him of the emotional abuse he is recieving at home???

 

Huh!?! Have you read what has been said? Jtalia has mentioned a number of times that her husband has called her names and loses control of his anger. Any man who calls his wife a "c*nt" has an anger control issue. By looking at just the one issue that he is not getting enough sex begs the question "Why is he not getting enough sex?" Is it because his wife refuses for no good reason, or is it because she no longer feels loved and hence does not love him? I challenge any man to begin calling his wife names...any name...out of anger. And then let us see how well the sex life goes.

 

I do not believe that if Jtalia suddenly became extremely passionate that her husband would no longer look at porn and that he would quit calling her names. Nor would he suddenly control his anger. This has been an issue for years, and it is not simply because he is looking at "teen porn."

 

BTW, what examples of emotional abuse do you see that the husband is receiving?

[RollMeAway]

I think there's a big difference between looking at porn of younger women and pursuing relationships with younger women.

 

Porn tends to be a hot button issue, but I think that you really can't look at it in a vaccuum.

 

One other point is that if someone likes younger folks (of LEGAL age) then that is their choice. Some people have fetishes, some folks roleplay...etc, whatever.

 

I think it would be unfair to judge someone based on what they like...as long as they aren't doing something inherently wrong like child porn.

[michaelk]

You know, it's not important that he "understand" why you feel the way you do about "teen" porn. It's important that he ACCEPTS and RESPECTS it. We can't feel other people's feelings. He'll never "feel" what you feel. Same as you'll never feel exactly what he feels. But... if this is a boundary, if this is what it takes to keep you investing in the relationship, then that's what he's got to pony up in order to be in a marriage with you.

 

Using this logic, you could just as easily turn it around and say that it's not important for her to understand why he likes teen porn, only that she accepts and respects it. And if this turns out to be boundary for him (which apparently it is, since he's never given it up and has resorted to lying and deception to keep doing it) then it's what she must "pony up" to be in a marriage with him.

 

I'm not advocating this perspective, by the way. Just pointing out that this looks like one of those situations where compromise will be needed to make the marriage work.

[michaelk]

You did and didn't misunderstand my post. I was referring to porn... not real women. When it comes to dating a real woman...if I were single, there is no way that a young girl who is less than 30 would be attractive to me. Fact. The whole package...looks and personality...that comes with a girl under 30 is not something that is appealing to me. I am sure that other men see it differently, but most men will say that they cannot relate to someone who has so many different interests. But we are talking about looking at pics/videos.

 

I agree with what JamesM is saying regarding young women, with one exception. In addition to pics/videos, I would consider a sexual encounter(s) with a much younger woman. Not with the goal of forming a relationship, but rather just for fun. I think most men if they're honest would agree with this, and with what JamesM has said.

 

While sex for the sake of sex is never as good as sex with an intimate partner, it can still be very enjoyable.

[Ladyjane14]

Thanks for the explanation, James, Cobra, et al. It makes me feel a little less like throwing in the towel on the male of the species. For a minute there, I was ready to move to a mountaintop and start taking pot-shots at trespassers.

 

 

Men do value all of those things, you are a total package in a mans eyes. However, while you value experience, Men typically dont.

 

I would like to hear more, Cobra, on why you believe that men don't value "experience".

 

Using this logic, you could just as easily turn it around and say that it's not important for her to understand why he likes teen porn, only that she accepts and respects it. And if this turns out to be boundary for him (which apparently it is, since he's never given it up and has resorted to lying and deception to keep doing it) then it's what she must "pony up" to be in a marriage with him.

 

True. But if tolerance of "teen porn" turns out to be a boundary for this guy... then she's not losing much by putting him out of her life.

 

He's not exactly the answer to a woman's closest dreams if that's where his priorities are. In a choice between a real, live woman or a pornographic representation of a random "teenage" girl, and he chooses the inanimate?... my advice to her in that case would be to "cut bait". A guy like that isn't worth the aggravation.

[Cobra_X30]

Huh!?! Have you read what has been said? Jtalia has mentioned a number of times that her husband has called her names and loses control of his anger. Any man who calls his wife a "c*nt" has an anger control issue. By looking at just the one issue that he is not getting enough sex begs the question "Why is he not getting enough sex?" Is it because his wife refuses for no good reason, or is it because she no longer feels loved and hence does not love him? I challenge any man to begin calling his wife names...any name...out of anger. And then let us see how well the sex life goes.

 

I do not believe that if Jtalia suddenly became extremely passionate that her husband would no longer look at porn and that he would quit calling her names. Nor would he suddenly control his anger. This has been an issue for years, and it is not simply because he is looking at "teen porn."

 

BTW, what examples of emotional abuse do you see that the husband is receiving?

 

Life is a two way street James! You notice that his angry behavior only started around the birth of the new child? There is an emotional trigger. I am not excusing his verbal aggression. I'm suggesting that it goes both ways, and I think you would be a fool to ignore that point.

 

So to answer your question. Yes, if I am being emotionally and physically neglected or rejected... its going to make me angry and apathetic.

 

Your right in that if she did a 180 his bad behavior would not immediately go away, BUT I'd bet you money it would diminish! Because a 6 year habit doesnt get broken overnight.

 

Never make the mistake of blaming all the problems on one person!

[cranium]

Yes, there is one particular individual I am interested in LJ. He and I both have grown distant from our spouses and have discussed these issues. I know that I cannot give my marriage the attention it needs when I am focused on him.

 

Find a female friend if you need a confidante. This particular individual has no business knowing details of your marriage. I agree with Lj; if you’re serious about working on your marriage, end your association with this guy yesterday. Please don't tell us he's a coworker. I went through that crap with my wife a few years ago.

[Ladyjane14]

I agree with what JamesM is saying regarding young women, with one exception. In addition to pics/videos, I would consider a sexual encounter(s) with a much younger woman. Not with the goal of forming a relationship, but rather just for fun. I think most men if they're honest would agree with this, and with what JamesM has said.

 

While sex for the sake of sex is never as good as sex with an intimate partner, it can still be very enjoyable.

 

I don't believe that really young women have the emotional maturity for this kind of thing. You see it all the time, particularly in the OW forum, where a young woman enters into a "sex only" relationship with an older man, and then loses her head completely.

 

Fact is, some of the older guys, entering into that same type of relationship end up losing theirs too.

What starts out as a guy using some young 'Miss Thing' as fodder for his midlife crisis, ends up becoming hurtful.

 

IMO, it's because the sexual relationship IS an emotional one as well, and too many folks, both young and old, don't seem to realize the extent of it.

[JamesM]

Life is a two way street James! You notice that his angry behavior only started around the birth of the new child? There is an emotional trigger. I am not excusing his verbal aggression. I'm suggesting that it goes both ways, and I think you would be a fool to ignore that point.

 

So to answer your question. Yes, if I am being emotionally and physically neglected or rejected... its going to make me angry and apathetic.

 

Your right in that if she did a 180 his bad behavior would not immediately go away, BUT I'd bet you money it would diminish! Because a 6 year habit doesnt get broken overnight.

 

Never make the mistake of blaming all the problems on one person!

 

I certainly am not arguing that she is not at fault. And having lived in a sexless marriage, I know that it is not all his fault. In fact, it could be more her fault if the other factors were not there.

 

Maybe I misread your post. I got the impression that his watching porn was a direct result of her not having sex with him more.

 

His anger issues began when the last son was already two years old. While I understand how new children can cause anger and frustration in the sex area, I think it does not apply here. It would be interesting to find out what did trigger the anger. It could be related to children, a new job, an incident, or something else.

 

His porn habit has been going on for a number of years. Jtalia, do you remember the FIRST time you discovered it? How long ago was that? Was it around the time your sex diminished or after or before?

 

Cobra, while I agree that he may become less angry, I don't agree that it will ultimately change things long term. I think it will have a short term change, but if Jtalia did not cause his anger or his porn watching, it will not change. Since you think she is the cause, then you may see this differently. The other factor now is that the porn may provide a pleasure that cannot be given up so easily.

[michaelk]

I don't believe that really young women have the emotional maturity for this kind of thing. You see it all the time, particularly in the OW forum, where a young woman enters into a "sex only" relationship with an older man, and then loses her head completely.

 

Fact is, some of the older guys, entering into that same type of relationship end up losing theirs too.

What starts out as a guy using some young 'Miss Thing' as fodder for his midlife crisis, ends up becoming hurtful.

 

IMO, it's because the sexual relationship IS an emotional one as well, and too many folks, both young and old, don't seem to realize the extent of it.

 

I agree with what you've said here.

 

I will say, though, that I have had sex where no emotion gets involved, but these were very brief relationships (meeting only a few times). I imagine that, to your point, if they continued long term the emotional bond would be inevitable.

[michaelk]

True. But if tolerance of "teen porn" turns out to be a boundary for this guy... then she's not losing much by putting him out of her life.

 

He's not exactly the answer to a woman's closest dreams if that's where his priorities are. In a choice between a real, live woman or a pornographic representation of a random "teenage" girl, and he chooses the inanimate?... my advice to her in that case would be to "cut bait". A guy like that isn't worth the aggravation.

 

This misses the point. The only reason he would have to choose a real live woman over a pornographic representation would be if she forced him into that position in the first place. Given an open and tolerant spouse, any man would choose to have both, of course!

 

Put another way (and reversing perspectives again), if she is not tolerant enough to let him be himself sexually (something I would expect from my close intimate partner), then maybe she isn't worth the aggravation. It's not about the 'teen porn' - it's about wanting to be with a woman that you don't have to hide your true self from. If his sexual fetishes are so much more important to her that the real, substantive issues their marriage (or any) faces, then I have to wonder where her priorities are!

[Cobra_X30]

I certainly am not arguing that she is not at fault. And having lived in a sexless marriage, I know that it is not all his fault. In fact, it could be more her fault if the other factors were not there.

 

Maybe I misread your post. I got the impression that his watching porn was a direct result of her not having sex with him more.

 

His anger issues began when the last son was already two years old. While I understand how new children can cause anger and frustration in the sex area, I think it does not apply here. It would be interesting to find out what did trigger the anger. It could be related to children, a new job, an incident, or something else.

 

His porn habit has been going on for a number of years. Jtalia, do you remember the FIRST time you discovered it? How long ago was that? Was it around the time your sex diminished or after or before?

 

Cobra, while I agree that he may become less angry, I don't agree that it will ultimately change things long term. I think it will have a short term change, but if Jtalia did not cause his anger or his porn watching, it will not change. Since you think she is the cause, then you may see this differently. The other factor now is that the porn may provide a pleasure that cannot be given up so easily.

 

No my point was this. You cant complain about the porn if he is using it as a coping mechanism. Stop driving him towards it! Then we can have a discussion over whether it is an addiction or not.

 

It's like a steakhouse that stops serving steaks... Can they complain when people go to eat elswhere? Ok, maybe that was a lame example... But it illustrates the point.

 

Besides porn isnt really the issue at hand. It's a symptom not the disease. The other marital problems are the real issue.

 

I think a better question is when did the anger issues start? Did he lash out at you before you got married?

 

If it was not a problem earlier in the marriage then it is more than likely due to some kind of frustration. Sometimes these anger issues build for years before they start to get expressed.

 

I'm not saying the Jtalia is the cause of his anger! Its ultimately his choice in how he deals with the things life throws at him! However, I am going to say that I believe in cause and effect!

[Ladyjane14]

It's not about the 'teen porn' - it's about wanting to be with a woman that you don't have to hide your true self from. If his sexual fetishes are so much more important to her that the real, substantive issues their marriage (or any) faces, then I have to wonder where her priorities are!

 

The OP says she IS bothered by it, "sickened" by it, if memory serves. This guy is turning her off, dousing her libido in cold water, affecting her ability to be physically attracted to him.

 

What would be the difference if she was doing something that he found to be equally nauseating. Say, she starts taking male hormones so she can join the circus part-time as "The Bearded Lady".

Should he not have a problem with that if it were preventing him from getting it up?

 

Sure, he can certainly set up 'tolerance of fetish porn' as a boundary if he wants. But he hasn't. What he's done instead is to sneak around behind her back and then beg her not to leave him. Now, if he does set his boundary thusly, the ball is in her court to say yea or nay, just as it's within his control to accept her boundary on the 'teen porn'. He's free to walk. She hasn't got him chained up in the basement.

 

I'm all for folks being understood and accepted within their marriage, showing their true selves and all that. But sometimes, the true self is simply unacceptable because it is in direct contradiction to our own wants and needs. I see no reason for her to accommodate this into her life if it's intolerable to her.

[Cobra_X30]

The OP says she IS bothered by it, "sickened" by it, if memory serves. This guy is turning her off, dousing her libido in cold water, affecting her ability to be physically attracted to the guy.

 

What would be the difference if she was doing something that he found to be equally nauseating. Say, she starts taking male hormones so she can join the circus part-time as "The Bearded Lady".

Should he not have a problem with that if it were preventing him from getting it up?

 

Isnt she doing something equally as bad if not worse?

[Ladyjane14]

Isnt she doing something equally as bad if not worse?

 

How do you figure?

Do you think she should just 'put out' regardless of the fact that she's not currently attracted to him? Have YOU ever had any sexual interaction with someone you're not the least bit aroused by? Would it be okay for her to say.. pack on 400 pounds and then expect him to give it up like a vending machine?

 

All I'm saying is that if "teen porn" is more important to him than presenting himself in an attractive way for his mate... let him enjoy his porn while she finds herself a more like-minded mate, one whose "needs" are NOT at cross-purposes with her own.