love4ever Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 I am not against marriage but I see no 'need' for the official paper, unless it is for some kind of financial security (pension) especially if you have kids... Other than that, I see absolutely no need to get married... it's a 'tradition' that is, IMO, old-fashioned, plus with all the divorce and cheating going around, it is just too much hassle when the couple separates. It's only a piece of paper, that IMO, says nothing and who does NOT guarantee love... 'till death do us part'. It's no guarantee but I feel it forces a couple to grow up a bit. You can't just walk out when you have an argument you need to sit their and work it through. With that paperwork making each others lives and finances intertwined you can't just give up so easily. Paperwork isn't just paper, its supposed to be a commitment to each other. And when you make a commitment to each other in front of your friends and family it's not so easy to just walk out on each other when everyone knows your together. (Please notice how I don't say God because I'm not a super religious person to start off with)It's not like you have to answer to other people but....you know how's its easier to lie to just one person, instead of a whole group? All I can say is that I find it funny when people that have been living together for years are so surprised when one person just gets up in leaves.....I mean what can you expect, there is no commitment expected here. I know that can happen whether your married or not but if you can't trust someone enough to get married and trust they won't cheat on you and you can make through....I guess your right, there is no need to get married for something that you have no trust in. Everyone marries for different reasons, some of these reasons are what makes the marriage result in divorce or cheating. If people married for love, commitment, family and partnership (just to name a few), then the divorce rate wouldn't be as high. We got married for many reasons and none had to do with "a piece of paper" or a tax break (never even thought of that). It was the ultimate thing we could do and we both wanted it. Before meeting my husband I used to say I would never marry and probably never have kids. I didn't know real love then so I had no desire to marry. I just played the field as not to have to put real emotions into a relationship. Also, society wasn't painting a pretty picture of marriage for me. Now I realize it depends on the couple and I am not going by statistics of other peoples marriage. Exactly how I feel. I mean to some people it may be naive to think that way. But geez people needs to have some trust in something in this world.
michaelk Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Personally, I've never seen the need for marriage unless the couple is either 1) religious, or 2) planning to have kids. Since I'm not in category #1, my wife and I lived together for 6 years before getting married, and only did so when I knew she was the one I would have a family with. If you're committed to someone you love, you should have the fortitude to make things work whether the paper is there or not. Having said that, there is a point in some relationships where the love is gone and everything has been done that can be. Here again, it shouldn't matter whether you have the paper or not. When it's over, the healthiest thing to do is to recognize it and move on. BTW, my W and I have been together for 19 years, married for 13, so I guess we qualify as a long-term marriage. We've had some pretty miserable times these past several years, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's inevitable for all long-term relationships to go bad. We've made some big mistakes in how we've conducted our relationship, and looking back we could have avoided a lot of our troubles if we had had the wisdom we have now. So married or not, I think long-term couples will have issues to deal with, and the longevity of their relationship will depend on the particular individuals and how they work together (or not).
Virgo1982 Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 It's because some people think beyond themselves. They want to have families, children, a house, a picket fence, tax breaks. All that sort of stuff. Much easier to do when married. I always think my reason for living is for "us" to spend time with my great-grandchildren. I want someone who feels the same way...
Integra Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 For every "type" of person there is in the world. There are just as many reasons to marry or to not marry.. For me.. Marriage has had some of the most incredible moments, the most wondurous experiences shared with someone that I love. Marriage has also made me experience some of the most painful, most difficult times in my life as well. My 14th anniversary is coming real fast. Are there things that I would have rather never experiened, Oh HEll Yeah!! But Through everything I've learned, A marriage is can only be what the two people in it want it to be.. Both have to want it, both have to fight for it, both have to be willing to grow, learn, change and work hard to have it. Sadly, what all it takes to make a marriage work, usually takes years of learning and experiencing. Most give up (for whatever reason) way before that happens.
fluffy0 Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Why get married? I am not married yet (1.5 more weeks!!(+ and must admit I have had some premarital jitters and doubts in the past few weeks. But anyways my reasons for believing in marriage in light of divorce statistics are this: People aren't perfect. They mess up, lie, betray, act selfish, blah blah blah the list goes on. So, yes theoretically you could live together in perfect harmony without any pieces of paper to make it official. But chances are about 100% that there will come a time in you relationship when you will feel like you can't take any more crap from your partner and you are ready to leave. Theoretically, marriage is a serious life long commitment and going through with it is supposed to make you realize that you have a responsibility to society, the family you created, and God (if u are religious) to not go back on the vows that you took when you really really feel like bolting out the door. But now with divorce being available for all and having no stigma attached to it, it doesn't really work that way anymore unless you are really disciplined and basically vow to take your vows seriously. To some people commitment isn't that important and they want the ability to enjoy life with someone until it isn't enjoyable anymore and then just leave. I suppose thats fine as long as you don't involve children in the arrangement, because, it has been proven many times over that children of divorced parents fair worse than children of functional 2-parent households (if there's abuse going on thats a totally different story). But for me al the stress and fights are worth it. not only do the good times outweigh the bad, i know that I will have a lifelong best friend and person I can't count on and build a life with eventhough sometimes the process might get unpleasant.
LittleLady Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Oh hunny I'm never marrying again.. I barely got out of my first marriage alive. The most successful relationship I have ever encountered is a friend of mine who has been in a relationship and living together for 15 years with one child. They never married. All the marriages I've seen are miserable. They are either stuck, co-dependent etc. I really don't think there is a difference, but there is nothing worse than being STUCK or feeling STUCK in a miserable marriage. Unmarried leaves no threats of divorce or being cut off financially etc. The two people I know carry their own weight in the relationship in every facet and work harder than those that are married. Many who are married just believe their fellow partner is stuck with them no matter what so they don't try as hard. Most people say "im married" for life, subsequently fall apart in my areas. DO NOT get dependent on a man, much less get married. I wish I knew better before I tied myself to my first marriage. I almost died for it. Back to your question of Why? Religious reasons, financial reasons and societal acceptance.. that's the price for being miserable.
LittleLady Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Read what I said again. I agree, you DO NOT have to be legally married to have that kind of commitment. But if you ARE committed to your SO, then reverse your question. Why WOULDN'T you get married and make a public and legal proclamation of your vows to one another? In my opinion, the only reason you wouldn't is because either a) you are violently opposed to the institution of marriage for some reason or another, b) you believe that because most marriages end in divorce, then marriage MUST equate to eventual divorce (which is absurd and illogical thinking, but many proclaim it anyways) or c) you are afraid of the commitment that legal and public proclamations like marriage bring to the relationship. Basically, the reasons to NOT get married is that you question the commitment in the first place, at least at some level. Or D: one believes it makes no advantageous difference You seem to think that something must be WRONG with a person who is against a LEGAL marriage. That's how a bigot would perceive things.
LittleLady Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Why does it seem that the people with the happiest marriages used to swear they would never marry? Maybe it is because if somebody managed to change our minds they must have been something special. I think it moreso has to do with having REALISTIC or LOW expectations on marriage and trying harder as a result. Too many women believe their soulmate(ha)/knight in shining armor just arrived and they'll be living "happily ever after".. good luck with that!
DazedandConfused66 Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Or D: one believes it makes no advantageous difference You seem to think that something must be WRONG with a person who is against a LEGAL marriage. That's how a bigot would perceive things. Actually, a bigot would believe that just because they had a miserable marriage, all marriages must be the same. Because their observation=law. I have said, repeatedly, that I believe marriage isn't necessary to a fulfilling relationship. But I do believe it ENHANCES a committed relationship far greater than it could ever harm it. If the relationship already sucks, not much a piece of paper can do to help that. Suckage=suckage no matter how you treat it. But I'd be interested in hearing your rationale behind how, in a committed relationship, a marriage can actually HARM things.
LittleLady Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Well, at least stats back up my view. Yours is mere opinion and is very bigotted. A piece of paper doesn't enhance anything imo and if it does, there was something wrong with the relationship to begin with.
Ocean-Blue Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Well, at least stats back up my view. Yours is mere opinion and is very bigotted. A piece of paper doesn't enhance anything imo and if it does, there was something wrong with the relationship to begin with. A marriage is more than a piece of paper. To some it in the FINAL and most ultimate expression of their commitment. So your previous marriage left a bitter taste in your mouth...but that doesn't make a marriage any less sacred.
LittleLady Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 But I'd be interested in hearing your rationale behind how, in a committed relationship, a marriage can actually HARM things. Are you serious? I'm not here to educate you. If you can't even figure out the MANY answers to that question or bother to read any of my posts on this thread or others, you have some major deficiencies. Now you can continue monitoring this thread 24/7 cause I have things to do.
Kasan Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Well, at least stats back up my view. Yours is mere opinion and is very bigotted. A piece of paper doesn't enhance anything imo and if it does, there was something wrong with the relationship to begin with. [sIZE=-1]Wikipedia--bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. LL you are dangerously close to being what you are calling someone else. [/sIZE]
LittleLady Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 A marriage is more than a piece of paper. To some it in the FINAL and most ultimate expression of their commitment. So your previous marriage left a bitter taste in your mouth...but that doesn't make a marriage any less sacred. And to some it is JUST a piece of paper.
LittleLady Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 [sIZE=-1]Wikipedia--bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. LL you are dangerously close to being what you are calling someone else. [/sIZE] Well dazed was quite ready to throw insults at people for their beliefs.. if he cannot handle a taste of his own medicine, that's not my problem. It's called defending an argument.. he had no right to insult people. It was intolerant.
DazedandConfused66 Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Well, at least stats back up my view. Yours is mere opinion and is very bigotted. A piece of paper doesn't enhance anything imo and if it does, there was something wrong with the relationship to begin with. Well now, you can label me anything you'd like. However, I'll label you something as well LittleLady....grossly uneducated about the statistical facts surrounding divorce. You seem to be quoting Oprah-esque stats. The latest stats that are meaningful show that the divorce rate has NEVER exceeded 41%, and has actually declined amongst individuals who married since 1955 for the past several years. While I don't discount that is a high number, it's not the majority. The majority of marriages don't end in divorce. And, of course, I would like to see any stats you may care to offer that demonstrate that non-married couples who live together somehow have a higher "togetherness" rate than do married couples from the same demographics. I've looked for such evidence, but have yet to find it. Since you claim to have the stats to back up your opinion (I won't accuse you of being a bigot, but I will accuse you of being misinformed) as being somehow more correct than my own, I'd enjoy seeing them please? And you still didn't answer my question.....how does the piece of paper actively HURT a committed relationship? If both parties are committed, neither wants to leave, both want to spend their lives together.....how does it hurt? I'd even be happy to debate the merits of tax issues if you'd like as there is at least some merit in looking at that argument.
Ocean-Blue Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 And to some it is JUST a piece of paper. Perhaps. But the point is, it is so much more to others. We all have a particular perspective, a frame of reference. Clearly yours differs from mine. I would never enter into a marriage lightly. To me, a marriage is FINAL. People marry for various reasons. My parents have been married for over 25 years. Sure they fight. They hate each other sometimes. My dad ignores my mom's whining. My mom rolls her eyes at my dad. They've had their MAJOR ups and downs. But at the end of the day, they go to sleep next to each other. They have a history and a family. They have a lifetime of memories. They could have chosen not to get married - to simply live together or just "date"...but they chose to get married instead. Why? Because they wanted their relationship to be exclusive. They wanted a sense of "us". They wanted a sense of finality. And that's what I want. That's what marriage gives some people.
Kasan Posted October 16, 2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Perhaps. But the point is, it is so much more to others. We all have a particular perspective, a frame of reference. Clearly yours differs from mine. I would never enter into a marriage lightly. To me, a marriage is FINAL. People marry for various reasons. My parents have been married for over 25 years. Sure they fight. They hate each other sometimes. My dad ignores my mom's whining. My mom rolls her eyes at my dad. They've had their MAJOR ups and downs. But at the end of the day, they go to sleep next to each other. They have a history and a family. They have a lifetime of memories. They could have chosen not to get married - to simply live together or just "date"...but they chose to get married instead. Why? Because they wanted their relationship to be exclusive. They wanted a sense of "us". They wanted a sense of finality. And that's what I want. That's what marriage gives some people. Well done!! I couldn't have said it better.
DazedandConfused66 Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 Here's some interesting information that shows co-habitation stats versus same-stage marriage stats...basically, marriage (that little piece of paper) provides stability. Of course, as Mark Twain once said, there are three types of lies: Lies, Damned Lies and statistics. Nobody has measured the "happiness" of the relationships. Still, it provides pretty clear evidence that marriages have a better chance of long-term survival than co-habitation. From: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_022.pdf "Among the findings in this report: unmarried cohabitations overall are less stable than marriages. The probability of a first marriage ending in separation or divorce within 5 years is 20 percent, but the probability of a premarital cohabitation breaking up within 5 years is 49 percent. After 10 years, the probability of a first marriage ending is 33 percent, compared with 62 percent for cohabitations."
OpenBook Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 Uh, then how do you explain that there are now more singletons than married's for the first time in history??
gman0hsev Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 ummmm population increase? I mean that has been happening since like..... the beginning of time...... and also the fact that in every city isn't populated in boy girl order...... sometimes there are more men than woman, sometimes there are more woman than men. Think before you get sarcastic:p
michaelk Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 Of course, as Mark Twain once said, there are three types of lies: Lies, Damned Lies and statistics. Precisely. All these numbers really show is that people who are the "marrying kind" are more likely to stay together, not that marriage is what keeps them there. For example, most people with conservative religious convictions will not be found in the cohabitating population, only in the married population. And they are the most likely to take "til death do us part" seriously, for social and religious reasons. So it's not that the "piece of paper" is keeping them together, rather their underlying beliefs are.
Curmudgeon Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 I still like the romance of tradition, but in all honesty...feel just as you do. If you feel just like she does then you'll be selling yourself as an "escort" and revelling in having sex with a myriad of married men. Of course, if that's your "thing"...
Curmudgeon Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 I'm married. I'm not miserable. I married my wife because marriage suits me, as does she. Both of us were formerly divorced. Both of us were successful in our careers. Both of us were independent. Both of us decided that life together was (and it remains) more rewarding than life without. To each their own!
luvstarved Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 I did not read the entire thread, but most of it, so forgive if this is a repeat... Most people do not get married with the primary thought centering on the legal aspects of the union. Most people do it on the basis of a full commitment to the other, spiritually, emotionall, intellectually, physically... True, many do not make it. It is rarely a cake walk. I personally am just crawling up from the rotting bowels of several very trying years. I did not hang in there just because I made the commitment and dammit was going to honor it. I did not hang in there for the legal and social advantages. I hung in there for one reason: I am unwilling to give up on the notion of having a relationship in my life that surpasses all others. To have one person accept me and to accept them back, to rely on without doubt, to share with unreservedly, to trust and to love without condition and all the stuff that the vows talk about. I am far from there. I will never get all the way there. But I am going to get as close as I can, because I do not think that the human experience gets any more profound, nor any more rewarding than that. Even to approach its potential is worth it to me.
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