Sometimes They DO Leave You for the OW

[BentSpine]

And please do not even bother telling me I broke up a marriage, because the only people that broke that marriage up were the two people who were involved in it. They had 0 help from me, they allowed their union to deteriorate via neglect and other priorities that were not the marriage so don't even try to tell me I broke them up, it's wasted energy.

Well put. The only "homewreckers" that exist are found within the actual home.

 

When people get their needs met within the relationship they don't feel the need to go outside of the relationship to meet them.

[LucreziaBorgia]

When people get their needs met within the relationship they don't feel the need to go outside of the relationship to meet them.

 

In a sense, I guess - but let's not jump too quickly on those who aren't fulfilling their wayward spouses needs.

 

Sometimes the people who cheat have needs that have nothing to do with their current relationship, nor are they something their spouse can ever hope to fill. Sometimes those needs that send them cheating are not something a betrayed spouse should ever have to fill, nor would they ever want to - and furthermore these needs are not something they are responsible for filling.

 

For example:

 

There really are people out there who regardless of how full of a marriage and home life are, they still feel an internal need to be objectively wanted. They feel that any wanting their own spouse does is subjective, and therefore not fulfilling. How does a spouse fulfill a person's need for objective attraction? They can't.

 

Then you have the madonna/whore complex guys who can't reconcile the love they have for their wives/wives as mothers with sex, and find that they need to find unemotional 'dirty' sex on the outside. So what should a wife do in that case? Turn off her love for her husband, and reject her children, and reject her role as 'wife', so that he can get his need for unemotional 'dirty' sex fulfilled?

 

Then you have the women who associate sex with pain and punishment - and look for sex from emotionally unavailable men outside the marriage that will further degrade and hurt them on a subconscious level. Should her patient husband then start abusing her so that she can get that subconscious need for being humiliated and degraded filled?

 

Sometimes it is not something wrong in the relationship. Sometimes it is not something wrong with the betrayed spouse. Sometimes it is something that is broken within the cheater, and no outside source can fix it or prevent him/her from cheating.

[sarme]

In a sense, I guess - but let's not jump too quickly on those who aren't fulfilling their wayward spouses needs.

 

Sometimes the people who cheat have needs that have nothing to do with their current relationship, nor are they something their spouse can ever hope to fill. Sometimes those needs that send them cheating are not something a betrayed spouse should ever have to fill, nor would they ever want to - and furthermore these needs are not something they are responsible for filling.

 

For example:

 

There really are people out there who regardless of how full of a marriage and home life are, they still feel an internal need to be objectively wanted. They feel that any wanting their own spouse does is subjective, and therefore not fulfilling. How does a spouse fulfill a person's need for objective attraction? They can't.

 

Then you have the madonna/whore complex guys who can't reconcile the love they have for their wives/wives as mothers with sex, and find that they need to find unemotional 'dirty' sex on the outside. So what should a wife do in that case? Turn off her love for her husband, and reject her children, and reject her role as 'wife', so that he can get his need for unemotional 'dirty' sex fulfilled?

 

Then you have the women who associate sex with pain and punishment - and look for sex from emotionally unavailable men outside the marriage that will further degrade and hurt them on a subconscious level. Should her patient husband then start abusing her so that she can get that subconscious need for being humiliated and degraded filled?

 

Sometimes it is not something wrong in the relationship. Sometimes it is not something wrong with the betrayed spouse. Sometimes it is something that is broken within the cheater, and no outside source can fix it or prevent him/her from cheating.

 

Absolutely! I have to agree with this 100%. I would even go as far as saying most of the time the problem is with the cheater and not the relationship.

 

Even in my case I blame him not her. He made a bad choice to be with someone he was not a 100% about and then never grew to fully accept that choice, is that her fault? No. It is his for not being honest with himself or her for that matter. Some people do that, they think this is as good as it it'll get, it's not bad so let's do it!

 

The other thing is that in every relationship our needs are not going to be met 100% we can always find someone outside who can meet the needs that are lacking in our rel. but it is a give and take situation, you weigh out what you get versus what you don't and that determines how much you compromise to be with someone. Some people compromise a lot others compromise the norm.

 

 

2long

How do you know that your affair partner won't do this very same thing?

 

I don't know that, no one knows that. My partner has never said "I want to have a series of long term relationships" he says to me all the time I can't wait until we marry. I have more reservations than he does apparently. Of course people say things, and actions count more than words but I don't see him in his actions indicating anything to me that he has commitment issues or that he wants to remain a bachelor. He wants to start a family the sooner the better. To me that says he is serious about the relationship. Of course he can cheat on me down the line, any man could. It's a risk we all take no matter what our pasts are.

But when a man flat out tells you he does not want commitments, you should listen to him, he is telling flat out what his intentions are.

So my conlusion with Crestfallen is that her man is telling her flat out what his intentions are, she should pay attention to that.

I don't have a crystal ball and don't pretend to have one, I just go on what people show.

[Virgo1982]

 

Bothered? Still, sometimes. Yes. I still have triggers that remind me of the affair. But that's 2 be expected, considering it lasted so long (even though it was pretty low-key, since Rat Meat lives 2 states away and so they didn't see each other but once or 2wice a year). My W never left me. And RM has remarried, since their A broke up his first marriage.

 

 

 

Classic denial.

 

 

 

I realize that you disagree with this. How can you have had no influence if you were having an affair with your OM while he was still married? I reject this assertion, and so would anyone with experience dealing with infidelity.

 

best,

-ol' 2long

 

I see where you're coming from, but I have to disagree with you on this one. You and your wife decided to stay together and work things out. Your marriage was salvagable because you BOTH wanted to make it work. Thankfully, you didn't take the role like you were a true victim and took the initiative to improve yourself.

 

Everyone does not get married for the right reasons. So, I think it is safe to say that those people should not-and probably won't-spend the rest of their lives being miserable. Some cheaters decide that if their spouse doesn't care about their needs, someone else will. Sometimes, that person is a better fit for them-rare, but true. Sometimes it is an eye-opener for the other partner. How much different would relationships be if people actually cared about their partner's feelings before they cheated on them?

[Crestfallen_KH]

Well put. The only "homewreckers" that exist are found within the actual home.

 

When people get their needs met within the relationship they don't feel the need to go outside of the relationship to meet them.

 

I really take objection to that. When my husband was down or seemed upset, I would ask him repeatedly what was wrong, what could I do, was he upset, etc. And he would always say "fine."

 

Well, he was apparently growing unhappy but said NOTHING to me. And it wasn't that I was ignoring him or not wanting to or trying to meet his needs - he just simply wasn't connected enough to his own feelings (his words, actually, not mine) and wasn't able to express to me that he was even unhappy in the first place. And then he met her, got gobsmacked, and then started blaming me and the relationship for his unhappiness. He didn't even give me a chance to try and meet his needs.

 

So no, let's not put in blanket statements blaming the betrayed spouse. I fought like hell to try and keep my marriage together. I didn't get a vote in whether or not the affair got to happen, so I can't be responsible for it. Period.

[HappyAtLast]

Quote: "When this started I grabbed every self-help book I could find and realized my focus had to be on me. I started exercising again, lost weight, got my hair cut, started doing things on my own and my husband took notice. He said I was becoming a very attractive person again.."

 

That everytime you read that someone's (man or woman's) spouse has either left them or is having an affair the BS starts going to the gym, loosing weight, taking an interest in their appearance, etc? Why would someone ever stop exercising and / or caring about how they look? This seems to be a rather disturbing pattern...

[Crestfallen_KH]

I didn't stop caring about how I look. I always took great care in my appearance. But I will admit that with the many weekly dinners out and lazy nights curled up on the sofa together, I put on weight. So did he.

 

The desire to lose weight and take better care of myself was for me. The main goal wasn't to win him back, it was to do what it took to make me feel good about myself. I guess that doesn't strike me a disturbing pattern - doing what you need to do to take care of yourself when your world is crumbling down around is a healthy reaction, IMO.

 

I made a mistake of "losing myself" to some degree in my marriage, which I will not do again. And one of the things I have grown to learn through this experience is to make myself a bigger priority in my life - and taking care of myself will continue to be a priority as I enter into a new relationship someday.

 

Just like everyone else, I am living and learning.

[HappyAtLast]

that was my point.... we should take care of ourselves for us!

 

Edited to add: apologies.. I usually post on the OW/OM board. Many many years ago I left my then-W and married my OW. The reasons I left had nothing to do with my XW's looks or weight. She was, and probably still is a beautiful woman.

[sarme]

I don't think it's fair to chastise Crestfallen_KH for getting a bit comfy in her relationship, we all do it at one point or another and this should not be reason to up and leave a mate. I mean it's one thing to get comfy and another to completely let oneself go, it does not sound like that's the case here.

 

In particular I find very ironic when men say this is not acceptable yet they tend to do the exact same thing.

In all the advances we have reached in gender role equality and fairness, that is one area that still seems to be a double standard. Women tend to be a bit more forgiving than some men in that respect.

 

 

 

People don't have affairs because of unmet needs in their marriage. They have affairs because they don't protect themselves or their spouses from their own weaknesses - susceptibility 2 temptation.

 

This came from Steve Harley, of Marriage Builders, a coaching service and forum focused on rebuilding marriages after infidelity by stressing that the BS (or WS, if they are the ones trying 2 recover the marriage) meet their spouses most important emotional needs.

 

Sound contradictory? It's not, really.

 

Unmet needs are very often used as an excuse by WSs 2 justify their behavior and help alleviate their guilt. These people have no idea (at least until they go through the recovery process) just how liberating it can be 2 take full responsibility for their choices and actions, and strive 2 do the right thing, especially by those they promised 2 protect and cherish. Doing the right thing may involve staying married or maybe getting a divorce, but either choice involves some important steps that can't be left out - lest they fail 2 learn from their mistakes and risk repeating them. As Dr Phil says (as do many others as well) one needs 2 earn a divorce. I've known a couple of guys personally who I believe did earn their divorces. They divorced amicably and are still friendly with their xWs.

 

But it is pretty rare, and that's sad.

 

-ol' 2long

 

 

Again, you make generalizations for all accounts and it's just not that exact a subject that you can say with certainty it is all one way or another.

 

In my case, my b/f's needs were not being met and neither was he meeting his wife's needs. So your example, even if taught by "Dr. Phil" does not apply here.

 

My b/f's intellectual, and emotional needs were not being met they probabaly never were. Not to mention that his wife put her career needs first before the marriage something that when the tables were turned there was not support in exchange. There was a huge gap between he and his wife that they never managed to close.

 

I think pop-syche is fine as general guidelines, but it's not gospel. You have to take what professionals put out and adapt parts of what you see or read sometimes because not everything applies to everyone directly.

 

Can you please explain the "earning of a divorce" thing, sorry I don't understand that!?! ( I don't watch Dr Phil..)

[Virgo1982]

People don't have affairs because of unmet needs in their marriage. They have affairs because they don't protect themselves or their spouses from their own weaknesses - susceptibility 2 temptation.

 

 

-ol' 2long

 

Many people do use unmet needs as an excuse. Some don't. This is true in some cases, but not all. There is no one rule that works for every relationship. I don't think the theory works for the OP's situation, but if you decided to stay with your wife, it must work for your situation.

[Virgo1982]

In a sense, I guess - but let's not jump too quickly on those who aren't fulfilling their wayward spouses needs.

 

Sometimes the people who cheat have needs that have nothing to do with their current relationship, nor are they something their spouse can ever hope to fill. Sometimes those needs that send them cheating are not something a betrayed spouse should ever have to fill, nor would they ever want to - and furthermore these needs are not something they are responsible for filling.

 

For example:

 

There really are people out there who regardless of how full of a marriage and home life are, they still feel an internal need to be objectively wanted. They feel that any wanting their own spouse does is subjective, and therefore not fulfilling. How does a spouse fulfill a person's need for objective attraction? They can't.

 

Then you have the madonna/whore complex guys who can't reconcile the love they have for their wives/wives as mothers with sex, and find that they need to find unemotional 'dirty' sex on the outside. So what should a wife do in that case? Turn off her love for her husband, and reject her children, and reject her role as 'wife', so that he can get his need for unemotional 'dirty' sex fulfilled?

 

Then you have the women who associate sex with pain and punishment - and look for sex from emotionally unavailable men outside the marriage that will further degrade and hurt them on a subconscious level. Should her patient husband then start abusing her so that she can get that subconscious need for being humiliated and degraded filled?

 

Sometimes it is not something wrong in the relationship. Sometimes it is not something wrong with the betrayed spouse. Sometimes it is something that is broken within the cheater, and no outside source can fix it or prevent him/her from cheating.

 

Well said.

[sarme]

And this is one of my favorite quotes from Frank Pittman:

Marriage is not supposed to make you happy. It’s supposed to make you married, and once you are safely and totally married then you have a structure of security and support from which you are free to make yourself happy, rather than wasting your adulthood looking for structure."... Frank Pittmam

 

 

-ol' 2long

 

 

Oh I see so let me get this straight, this is your fave quote but you also said that two people should come together to form a pair not to complete each other but this quote implies that a person does not have structure and support until they are married!?!? So does that not contradict your view on being whole before we enter a partnership?

Also, this quote seems very clinical and super calculated and businesslike. A marriage is not supposed to make one happy it is supposed to provide stability and structure, I thought that was what work was for?

 

 

 

I dunno, I personally think anything we embark on in life is with the hope to find happiness, otherwise what is the point?

[Virgo1982]

Oh I see so let me get this straight, this is your fave quote but you also said that two people should come together to form a pair not to complete each other but this quote implies that a person does not have structure and support until they are married!?!? So does that not contradict your view on being whole before we enter a partnership?

Also, this quote seems very clinical and super calculated and businesslike. A marriage is not supposed to make one happy it is supposed to provide stability and structure, I thought that was what work was for?

 

 

 

I dunno, I personally think anything we embark on in life is with the hope to find happiness, otherwise what is the point?

 

I guess what he's saying is if you have two insecure people in a relationship, no matter what the other partner does, the insecurities will remain. Looking for happiness in a relationship without working on your own happiness will result in failure. How overwhelmed would you be if someone else's happiness depends on you?

 

Wait a minute...marriages are a lot of work. Aren't you bringing two individuals together to become one? I think you're onto something here.

[sarme]

I guess what he's saying is if you have two insecure people in a relationship, no matter what the other partner does, the insecurities will remain. Looking for happiness in a relationship without working on your own happiness will result in failure. How overwhelmed would you be if someone else's happiness depends on you?

 

Wait a minute...marriages are a lot of work. Aren't you bringing two individuals together to become one? I think you're onto something here.

 

 

Oh I see. Yes well if you interpret it like that then yes, that makes perfect sense. Happiness cannot be dependant on another human being it does have to come within however one cannot deny that certain unions can makes us very unhappy as on the opposite of that it can make us very happy.

 

I have conflicting thoughts on all the happiness within happiness from outside, views. On the one hand one must be prepared to take life on no matter what, so yes find happiness within but to pair up with someone that does not bring out the best in us ie. makes us unhappy, what's the point?

[Virgo1982]

Oh I see. Yes well if you interpret it like that then yes, that makes perfect sense. Happiness cannot be dependant on another human being it does have to come within however one cannot deny that certain unions can makes us very unhappy as on the opposite of that it can make us very happy.

 

I have conflicting thoughts on all the happiness within happiness from outside, views. On the one hand one must be prepared to take life on no matter what, so yes find happiness within but to pair up with someone that does not bring out the best in us ie. makes us unhappy, what's the point?

 

I totally agree. That was my point. Once you're in a marriage, your partner's happiness does depend to some degree because you are supposed to be one unit. When your idea of happiness is controlling every little aspect of your partner, that is a problem. But marriage takes some sacrifice on both ends in order to maintain/obtain a happy one.

[LittleLady]

Perfection is boring.

 

I guess he was tired of having a stepford wife.

[Virgo1982]

sarme and virgo:

 

I think you got some of the gist of those 2 observations right. Other people aren't responsible for our happiness (though even the marriage builders people believe the opposite). We are responsible for our own happiness. If we depend on others 2 make us happy, we set ourselves up for disappointment. Likewise, if they die, or become maimed, and we've depended on them 2 "complete" us, then we're suddenly incomplete.

 

Marriage does form a union, but it "should" be one of sharing one's individuality, not losing it. Thus, "becoming one" isn't contradicting "becoming a couple", it's describing different aspects.

 

-ol' 2long

 

We're on the same page now. That's why I said "to some degree." You have to have your own interest. You have to maintain your personality-unless you have issues, but you're working as a team. The team is one unit formed by two individuals. :-)

[LucreziaBorgia]

Perfection is boring.

 

I guess he was tired of having a stepford wife.

 

I was wondering if we would hear from you again. Speaking of leaving for the OW - you would be perfect to ask. Last we heard, you were going to tell your MM that you were pregnant with his child, and he was supposed to leave his wife and come live with you in the house he had you living in. Whatever happened? How is your pregnancy going? Did MM leave his wife?

[PollyPocket]

Yeh, Just like my husband left me for his dirty blanket girlfriend.

[RollMeAway]

People don't have affairs because of unmet needs in their marriage. They have affairs because they don't protect themselves or their spouses from their own weaknesses - susceptibility 2 temptation.

 

This came from Steve Harley, of Marriage Builders, a coaching service and forum focused on rebuilding marriages after infidelity by stressing that the BS (or WS, if they are the ones trying 2 recover the marriage) meet their spouses most important emotional needs.

 

Sound contradictory? It's not, really.

 

Unmet needs are very often used as an excuse by WSs 2 justify their behavior and help alleviate their guilt. These people have no idea (at least until they go through the recovery process) just how liberating it can be 2 take full responsibility for their choices and actions, and strive 2 do the right thing, especially by those they promised 2 protect and cherish. Doing the right thing may involve staying married or maybe getting a divorce, but either choice involves some important steps that can't be left out - lest they fail 2 learn from their mistakes and risk repeating them. As Dr Phil says (as do many others as well) one needs 2 earn a divorce. I've known a couple of guys personally who I believe did earn their divorces. They divorced amicably and are still friendly with their xWs.

 

But it is pretty rare, and that's sad.

 

-ol' 2long

 

Hey 2long,

 

I was wondering if you could elaborate on that bit above. You mention that it sounds contradictory but I can't seem to figure out where you explain that it's not. I'm not writing this to be a smart @ss or anything, just trying to understand.

 

thanks!

[Crestfallen_KH]

Yeah, I read about some of those strategies to employ. But now, I'm actually doing NC - and finding it so incredibly easy to do. I am thinking of hiring an attorney and having all communication go through him. I just can't even imagine seeing him right now. I don't ever WANT to see him again.

 

We are doing our best to be amicable, but I'm still trying to figure out how to divorce. On one level, I want to just let him get the process started and start paying for it. But, I know I should get an attorney to look things over.

 

Ugh, this just sucks!

[RollMeAway]

Hey 2long,

 

I think you described a different part, or I didn't accurately point you to the part I was confused on.

 

You posted: "People don't have affairs because of unmet needs in their marriage. They have affairs because they don't protect themselves or their spouses from their own weaknesses - susceptibility 2 temptation. "

 

What separates a 'need' from a 'perceived need' (aka, temptation or weakness)?

 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

"The keeper of the city keys puts shutters on the dreams.

I wait outside the pilgrim's door with insufficient schemes."

 

Love it.

 

-RMA

[mopar crazy]

My H of 11 years left me for the OW also. I had no clue that he was having an EA w/ the OW and out of the blue he told me he wanted a D. I told him if he wanted to end our M I wanted him to move out. I told my closest friends that I was getting a D and then I started hearing about H and his co-workers A a few days b4 H moved out. Both denied the A when I confronted them. A week later the OW filed for a D from her H.

 

I moved back to my hometown for family support. About a month later H called and admitted to the A. He said he made a mistake and wanted to R the M. He said if that if we were going to R he needed to start telling me the truth.

 

We talked every day, several times a day, about R. We continued to stay separated for another 6 months b4 he moved in w/ me and we started to repair our M.

 

After about 2 years after we R my H told me even if we didn't R the M he would have never stayed w/ the OW.

 

MM do their W for the OW, it's not unheard of.

 

To the OP. I am sorry for the pain that you have been going through. I hope you find peace and happiness soon.

[Crestfallen_KH]

Mopar_Crazy, thank you for sharing your story. I had really thought my story would turn out the same way. Granted, we have only been separated since early September and the two of them have been living together for about a month, but knowing my husband as I do, even if he thinks he's made a mistake, I don't see him coming back. I've had sooo many people tell me he'll change his mind, or call, or come crawling back, but I just know how he is - that's not going to happen.

 

I've found inner peace about certain things. I don't blame myself for the affair, I know it would have happened even I'd been a "perfect" wife because it's all about him, and I can certainly do better than an adulterer and a liar. Each week I feel better and stronger. Tonight, after kickboxing, I caught myself singing in the shower. SINGING! I haven't sung in the shower in two months.

 

I try to take notice of little things like that. And each time I catch myself doing something "normal" I feel like I'm just getting that much closer to being healed.

 

Thanks again.

[mopar crazy]

Mopar_Crazy, thank you for sharing your story. I had really thought my story would turn out the same way. Granted, we have only been separated since early September and the two of them have been living together for about a month, but knowing my husband as I do, even if he thinks he's made a mistake, I don't see him coming back. I've had sooo many people tell me he'll change his mind, or call, or come crawling back, but I just know how he is - that's not going to happen.

 

I've found inner peace about certain things. I don't blame myself for the affair, I know it would have happened even I'd been a "perfect" wife because it's all about him, and I can certainly do better than an adulterer and a liar. Each week I feel better and stronger. Tonight, after kickboxing, I caught myself singing in the shower. SINGING! I haven't sung in the shower in two months.

 

I try to take notice of little things like that. And each time I catch myself doing something "normal" I feel like I'm just getting that much closer to being healed.

 

Thanks again.

 

You're welcome! It sounds like you are doing well from what just happened to you and that is great! It seems to me you have came to terms w/ the M being over and you aren't going to sit around and be depressed about it. I'm sure there are times where you do feel upset, angry, hurt, and depressed but from your post above it seems you are doing great. Things will get better as time passes.

 

I'm sorry that you things are going as expected but your H hasn't been gone that long. He'll probably wake up and realize that he lost you and wants to work on the M. If he doesn't, his loss.

 

My H left me in April. He kept having second thoughts from April to the middle of May about getting the D. Even the OW said he was confused when I called and asked her what was going on between them. It wasn't until the end of May that our children and I moved away that he stopped talking about R the M. I knew it was over and like you I was started to accept it. I didn't think he would come back either but he did.

 

If you want to work on your M keep an opened mind. If you don't want to work on it and he does come back you will know in your heart what you really want to do.

 

Keep us posted!