peace_pipe Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 Let me start off by saying that I have been dating a lot lately. There is this one girl I have been seeing who I wasn't that interested in at first, but as time went on I was thinking that maybe I should give her a chance. I met her in a bar. The first time I approached her, we chatted for a bit. i was going to leave soon and I asked for her number. She was like "I don't meet people in bars." So I talke dto her a little more and when I had her laughing again - I was like "I better go before you start liking someone you met in a bar." So I bolted. The next weekend, I bumped into her again at the same place and she gave me her #. So anyway, this girl and I have had multiple dates. I have taken her to dinner, drinks, a show... etc. This is over a period of 1-2 months. She has mentioned many times "that I have good qualities" and things of that nature. Last weekend, we hung out both Friday and Saturday night. We even talked about possibly seeing more of each other. We get back to my place, I sat on my couch and she on the loveseat. It wasn't long before she got up, sat down beside me, and the next thing I know she is on my lap, making out heavily. The next night, we went out again, and she was very touchy-feely once again. I purposely sat back and let her make the moves. It was like 3 AM Sunday morning, she was laying on my couch. I told her I was headed to bed and she could join if she wanted- or I would fetch her a blanket to sleep on the couch. She seemed indecisive so I just went to bed. When I woke she was gone, which was cool... So, fast forward 2 days later. I call the girl to say hello and make small talk. Somehow we get on the conversation of what transpired on the weekend and she flat out said she "made a mistake". That really blew me away. I mean I let this make all the moves only to turn around and say what she did like I somehow pressured her? I told her that this would be pretty much it for us and I don't understand. Then she breaks out the whole relationship talk.... uggh. Claiming "I am not ready for a relationship." I am just sitting there wondering where that even came from! I was like "can't we just go back to enjoying each other's company?" and "why do we have to label it?" I just can't bring myself to hang with a girl who claims making out with me is a MISTAKE. So I told her to go away.... I just find the whole thing very peculiar. Her body languages says one thing and her mouth speaks another...
Kamille Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 I'm sorry to hear this Peace Pipe. Was she the girl you were really happy about? I don't understand the move either... I mean, I have backtracked before on sleeping with a guy too soon and then feeling like it was a mistake, but not just making out... Unless, how heavy was the making out? Was it an 'everything but penetration' session? And even the times that I had backtracked, it definitely wasn't because the guy had pressured me, but because, the day after, I felt like there was a lag between my actions and the level of intimacy with the guy. Like I had gotten ahead of myself - like I had failed to protect my vulnerabilities. So I don't think she meant she 'made a mistake' as a way to make you feel responsible in any way. On a side note... You offered her the couch? Hmmm.... Gentlemen offer the lady the bed, in their company, or a cab fare home. Couch surfing is detrimental to romance. My new guy walked me home at midnight after I acted all wishy-washy. I know, once again, a system that works to the advantage of women. Just saying though, we do appreciate these kinds of gestures.
Star Gazer Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 And even the times that I had backtracked, it definitely wasn't because the guy had pressured me, but because, the day after, I felt like there was a lag between my actions and the level of intimacy with the guy. Like I had gotten ahead of myself - like I had failed to protect my vulnerabilities. So I don't think she meant she 'made a mistake' as a way to make you feel responsible in any way. On a side note... You offered her the couch? Hmmm.... Gentlemen offer the lady the bed, in their company, or a cab fare home. Couch surfing is detrimental to romance. My new guy walked me home at midnight after I acted all wishy-washy. I know, once again, a system that works to the advantage of women. Just saying though, we do appreciate these kinds of gestures. I totally agree. She may have felt like she had gotten ahead of herself - let the physical get farther than where her head and heart are. That's a confusing and scary place to be, and I don't think she met "mistake" as though you were at fault or had done anything wrong, it's all her internal intimacy-balance. That said, I also agree about the couch thing, but I also believe that may have been a factoid she considered in questioning her feelings for you (and yours for her). A gentleman who wanted to be with me, cared about my comfort, etc., would have offered me the bed. Every guy I have dated has offered me the bed. The guys I chose to never see again offered me the couch and a blankie. Chivalry, my friend...it's not dead.
Author peace_pipe Posted October 15, 2007 Author Posted October 15, 2007 It was like 3 AM Sunday morning, she was laying on my couch. I told her I was headed to bed and she could join if she wanted- or I would fetch her a blanket to sleep on the couch. She seemed indecisive so I just went to bed. When I woke she was gone, which was cool... I did offer her the bed, ladies! Plus I just got a brand new king-pillowtop lol! Of course I offered her the bed too....
Kamille Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 I did offer her the bed, ladies! Plus I just got a brand new king-pillowtop lol! Of course I offered her the bed too.... Got it! but her options were bed with you (and since she was into you, she knew that meant getting into dangerous water) or the couch. A better option could have been 1) bed with you 2)or a ride home (preferably in your company). Perhaps, as Star Gazer suggested 1) bed with you 2) she gets the bed and you take the couch. I prefer bed or ride home.
Author peace_pipe Posted October 15, 2007 Author Posted October 15, 2007 Got it! but her options were bed with you (and since she was into you, she knew that meant getting into dangerous water) or the couch. A better option could have been 1) bed with you 2)or a ride home (preferably in your company). Perhaps, as Star Gazer suggested 1) bed with you 2) she gets the bed and you take the couch. I prefer bed or ride home. Well, the ride home was out because we wre both tipsy and her car was at my place. I don't understand when you say: A better option could have been 1) bed with you. Isn't that what I offered? I would have even taken the couch and let her have the bed, but when I brought it up she didn't say much, I didn't want to pressure her. After all, she is a grown woman and she can decide for herself....and at that time I was so tired i could care less about getting sex or whatever. Like I said, I did offer the bed, so I think it may be more a case of her physically getting ahead of herself. Now the question becomes: "What do I do now?" I've went no contact with her since last week. I felt a little connection with the girl but I feel that with a lot of girls. What I am trying to say is that it's not a huge deal to me if it doesn't work out. On the other hand, I'm not one to turn my back on potential. What is a guy to do here? I am damned if I do, damned if I don't!
lindya Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 The next night, we went out again, and she was very touchy-feely once again. I purposely sat back and let her make the moves. It was like 3 AM Sunday morning, she was laying on my couch. I told her I was headed to bed and she could join if she wanted- or I would fetch her a blanket to sleep on the couch. She seemed indecisive so I just went to bed. Hmmmm. From the description, I'm interpreting this as a situation where a woman made all the moves and got a lukewarm response...indicating lack of interest and passion on the man's part. If that's the case, then I can understand her feeling that she made a mistake. I can appreciate that with all the Date Rape stuff people are always going on about, men will sometimes feel a bit inhibited about making moves...and I'm wondering if some kind of issue with that is what's at the bottom of this thread.
tanbark813 Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 peace_pipe, you didn't do anything wrong. She just lost interest for whatever reason. Maybe it was about you personally or maybe it was something external but the "made a mistake" was just an excuse to break things off. Better luck next time.
Author peace_pipe Posted October 15, 2007 Author Posted October 15, 2007 peace_pipe, you didn't do anything wrong. She just lost interest for whatever reason. Maybe it was about you personally or maybe it was something external but the "made a mistake" was just an excuse to break things off. Better luck next time. That's how I see it as well, but the ladies here seem to think differently? I was holding back a bit on purpose. I wanted to see how she felt without me enticing her to do so. I guess i don't understand why she didn't speak up over the weekend instead of trying to molest me, then 2 days later playin' a different tune.
Author peace_pipe Posted October 15, 2007 Author Posted October 15, 2007 She just lost interest for whatever reason. How do people stay married???
Star Gazer Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 I felt a little connection with the girl but I feel that with a lot of girls. What I am trying to say is that it's not a huge deal to me if it doesn't work out. On the other hand, I'm not one to turn my back on potential. What is a guy to do here? I am damned if I do, damned if I don't! What to do... what to do... Well, did she say she doesn't want to see you anymore or what? Her saying she doesn't want a relationship while also putting the moves on you suggests she's attracted to you, but isn't ready for what the physical aspect of a relationship brings for most women. The only thing to do is take your time in getting to know one another. I'd ask her out on a date and keep it outside your place so that she's able to develop more of an emotional and mental with you, and you with her, but that's just me. Hmmmm. From the description, I'm interpreting this as a situation where a woman made all the moves and got a lukewarm response...indicating lack of interest and passion on the man's part. If that's the case, then I can understand her feeling that she made a mistake. True. When I first started reading the thread, I thought the "mistake" was going to be her decision not to join you in bed, as in, "Oooh baby, I sooo shoulda hopped in that bed with you, RARRR, my mistake!!!" but then as it continued I didn't quite understand. I did consider Lindya's point, that because you were allowing her to make all the moves, she may have thought you were either totally passive when it comes to physical intimacy (which ain't good) or you weren't really into her, because when a guy is turned on he can't help but make some moves of his own. What to do in this situation if it happens again? Follow her lead in the move-making department, and offer her the bed while making it clear you will sleep on the couch.
Star Gazer Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 That's how I see it as well, but the ladies here seem to think differently? As Tan would say if the shoe were on the other foot, if you want to know how a woman thinks, ask a woman.
Author peace_pipe Posted October 15, 2007 Author Posted October 15, 2007 What to do... what to do... Good post SG, thanks for the response. She said that she wanted to continue to be "friends". I declined, citing many reasons why this is not possible. This is when it gets a little "grey" for me. I have placed a stigma on the term "friends". I just don't like the idea of wondering when it's okay to kiss her, etc. I don't want to feel like I am walking on eggshells around her. I can't be myself in this situation. I kind of feel like if a girl can't admit that she's DATING me, then it is an insult to me. I also feel that I would never tell a girl she was a "mistake" if I was really liking her. Maybe we're just talking about semantics here? P.S. - I really don't feel that she perceives my "passiveness" as lack of interest. On the previoius dates I have flirted heavily and made the move for the first kiss, etc.
Krytie TV Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 On a side note... You offered her the couch? Hmmm.... Gentlemen offer the lady the bed, in their company, or a cab fare home. Couch surfing is detrimental to romance. My new guy walked me home at midnight after I acted all wishy-washy. I know, once again, a system that works to the advantage of women. Just saying though, we do appreciate these kinds of gestures. That's the thing that most stood out to me too. Always offer up the bed. At any rate, questioning why people do these things is an exercise in futility and will almost always naturally lead to you finding a way to make it your fault.
Author peace_pipe Posted October 15, 2007 Author Posted October 15, 2007 That's the thing that most stood out to me too. Always offer up the bed. How did so many miss that?? I did offer her the bed!! Geeze, give me some CRED here!
Star Gazer Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 Good post SG, thanks for the response. She said that she wanted to continue to be "friends". I declined, citing many reasons why this is not possible. This is when it gets a little "grey" for me. I have placed a stigma on the term "friends". I just don't like the idea of wondering when it's okay to kiss her, etc. I don't want to feel like I am walking on eggshells around her. I can't be myself in this situation. I kind of feel like if a girl can't admit that she's DATING me, then it is an insult to me. I also feel that I would never tell a girl she was a "mistake" if I was really liking her. Maybe we're just talking about semantics here? P.S. - I really don't feel that she perceives my "passiveness" as lack of interest. On the previoius dates I have flirted heavily and made the move for the first kiss, etc. Why is "friends" not possible? I don't think you'd have a hard time knowing when it's okay to kiss her...she's the one puttin' the moves on YOU. You'll know, she'll be straddling your lap like last time! And yes, you're nit-picking words here and focusing on the negative connotation here. She didn't say YOU were a mistake. She said HER BEHAVIOR was a mistake for what she's capable of right now. HUGE difference. Passiveness when it comes to making out is frustrating, no matter what flirtation was happening earlier in the evening. Your passiveness is analogous to the girl who lays there like a dead fish. Enticing? Not so much. Mirror her behavior next time, let her lead and show you where her boundaries are.
tanbark813 Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 As Tan would say if the shoe were on the other foot, if you want to know how a woman thinks, ask a woman. Yeah, but you disagreed with me when I posed that regarding asking a man. Which one is it, S_G?
Star Gazer Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 Yeah, but you disagreed with me when I posed that regarding asking a man. Which one is it, S_G? Doesn't matter. My point was simply to impeach your advice as contradictory.
tanbark813 Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 Doesn't matter. My point was simply to impeach your advice as contradictory. Not once did I contradict myself. I never said don't ask a woman on either thread. I know you like to criticize my posts for no good reason but do you really have nothing better to offer?
Author peace_pipe Posted October 15, 2007 Author Posted October 15, 2007 Why is "friends" not possible? I don't think you'd have a hard time knowing when it's okay to kiss her...she's the one puttin' the moves on YOU. You'll know, she'll be straddling your lap like last time! . I feel that "friends" is not possible because of many reasons. Let me list some of them below. 1) "friends" don't constantly buy the other dinner / dates 2) "friends" don't make out 3) "friends" don't care if you hang out with other members of the opposite sex. Is it really that diffucult for her to say that we are dating? Passiveness when it comes to making out is frustrating, no matter what flirtation was happening earlier in the evening. Your passiveness is analogous to the girl who lays there like a dead fish. Enticing? Not so much. Mirror her behavior next time, let her lead and show you where her boundaries are. So I am not supposed to be passive OR agressive? Now we're back to damned if I do, damned if I don't.
Kamille Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 I will try again to explain our harping on the bed thing, even though in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter much, since you have already been clear with her that you would rather not be stuck in the friend zone. And I congratulate you for that. Good job! She does sound horribly wishy-washy. And Krytie is right, questionning these things too much is an exercise in futiliy. But for further reference, here is me tryin to explain the bed thing again: Yes you offered her the bed. We all know and understand that you did. The thing we are insisting on is the different alternatives you could offered besides bed with you. What I am trying to say is that the options you gave her is 'bed with me OR couch'. She had a choice between 1 or 2 and she most likely didn't want to bed with you because she was trying to show some self-restraint. And no one likes to sleep on a couch. So she took herself home, to her nice comfy bed. A better set of options, for me, would have been "bed with you" OR a "cab home". (No cabs in your town?). Stargazer and Krytie mentionned that another better set of options would have been "bed with you" OR "she gets the bed and you couch it". so you'd get 1) bed with PP OR couch (blll) 2) bed with PP OR cab home (what a gentleman!) 3) bed with PP OR PP's bed without PP in it (which makes me think you have a funny LS name). Is that clearer?
Star Gazer Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 I feel that "friends" is not possible because of many reasons. Let me list some of them below. 1) "friends" don't constantly buy the other dinner / dates 2) "friends" don't make out 3) "friends" don't care if you hang out with other members of the opposite sex. Right. So don't buy all her meals, don't make out, and let her live her own life. Be FRIENDS. Is it really that diffucult for her to say that we are dating? Yes, because even "dating" implies some level of commitment and attachment, which she doesn't seem to be ready for. So I am not supposed to be passive OR agressive? Now we're back to damned if I do, damned if I don't. About halfway between the lands of Passive and Aggressive there is this lovely little harmonious place. It's called Assertive. Go there.
Author peace_pipe Posted October 15, 2007 Author Posted October 15, 2007 Why is "friends" not possible? SG... taken from your post on another thread: I had to dump my FWB for the same reason yours gave you though, honestly. He's hot, smart, funny, we have a great time together, so it really had nothing to do with him, he's awesome...BUT being with him when I needed to get some was, in fact, preventing me from getting out there and finding someone who I was truly compatible with. The same went for him. We're both now dating someone, and just friends. You labeled you ex a "friend". That is my definition of a friend.... Do you make out with this "friend"??? Just wonderin......
Star Gazer Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 SG... taken from your post on another thread: You labeled you ex a "friend". That is my definition of a friend.... Do you make out with this "friend"??? Just wonderin...... FWB was not an "ex." He and I previously not only made out, but f*cked like rabbits. Now, we are just friends. FRIENDS. He doesn't buy my meals, we no longer makeout, and we live our own lives...including hanging out with friends of the opposite sex.
Author peace_pipe Posted October 15, 2007 Author Posted October 15, 2007 Right. So don't buy all her meals, don't make out, and let her live her own life. Be FRIENDS. Don't make out? Don't do special things for her? If that is the case then I am missing out on the whole reason I wanted to date her to begin with. The whole reason I attempt to get close to any woman. I mean, what is the incentive for me to stick around??? Would you act like this with a guy you really liked? That's my catch22.... If this girl is blowing me off, fine. I can take it like a man. If she really likes me but is holding back, then I need to know this too! I need to find this out......
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