Lack of intimacy

[mike_m76au]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm new here - I didn't really know where else to turn for advice. I am sure I'm not the only one with this problem, but I have an issue with my marriage and could use some help.

 

My wife and I have been married for just over 9 years and have two children. Initially our relationship and marriage was extremely fun - lots of intimacy, etc. After the birth of our son, everything started to slow down. Over the past 5 years, our sex life has gone from extremely active to virtually non-existent. It's at the point now were we are only intimate about once a month, sometimes once every 2-3 months.

 

It's become very frustrating and I don't know what to do about it. She has a lack of interest in sex. Each time I try to initiate something, I get met with an excuse of some sort - all of which have been valid. So I set out to remove any excuses or limitations to reduce her stress and perk up her interest. Didn't help. As soon as I overcome an excuse, she finds another one.

 

First it was fear of getting pregnant again. So I got myself fixed, of which she fully supported as we have no intention of having any more children. Hasn't helped.

 

Next it came down to timing, kids, etc. So I arranged for my parents to look after the kids and took her out for a romantic dinner, a comedy show (which we greatly enjoy), etc. Didn't work. I even arranged a weekend away with entertainment, fine dining, sight-seeing, shopping... didn't work.

 

After that she wasn't sleeping well. So we went shopping and bought a new bed set, with new mattress, etc. She now sleeps very well. Didn't work for my problem.

 

Next she had a sore back. I would spend about an hour each day massaging it. I got her into physio. Physio recommended aerobic activity so I got us both gym memberships and we go to the gym several times a week. Her back is feeling better - Didn't change anything for me.

 

The latest issue is that she says that she needs to want it. She has to initiate it. I spend lots of time giving her attention - back rubs, foot massage, play with her hair, etc. Take her to movies, dinner, shopping, etc. Nothing gets her interested in sex.

 

I used to walk into the bedroom and she would jump me. There wasn't any need to create an interest... she was more than interested for the both of us!

 

What else can I do? I try to take on any problems that might stress her to make her life easier. I have jumped through every hoop she wanted me to, but none of it gets me anywhere.

 

When we do have sex she wants it over and done with as quickly as possible. I'm at the point now were even if she "gives in" to me, then I probably won't want it anyway. I want her to want it like she used to.

 

I am still very passionately in love with my wife. She is my world. She rocks my world. There's nothing I wouldn't do to make her life better. Part of that love is the intimacy we share. I need that. It is what keeps me going though the daily grind.

 

What else can I do? I am worried because the other day while at the gym I was checking out another woman there and started contemplating what sex would be like with her. I don't want that to happen! That's not me! I'm starting to become resentful towards her. Right now it's 3.58am and instead of being in bed, I'm up using the internet as I don't want to be around her after being rejected again. I don't know if I can keep taking the rejection. It makes me feel like i'm not important to her.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm at my wits end.

 

Thanks,

Mike

[DazedandConfused66]

Hi Mike and welcome to the forums,

 

I'm 41, been married about 20 years, and at about the 12-15 year mark my wife and I went thru some similar issues. I say similar as every couple is different and, reading your post, it appears to me that you are most assuredly NOT a "clueless married guy" who doesn't recognize the importance of "courting" your wife outside of the bedroom in order to achieve intimacy in the bedroom. That is, in most cases, the biggest issue in achieving sexual intimacy in an established relationship. But I can tell from your post that you believe you really are trying...and I applaud you for trying. That's half the battle right there.

 

However, I have to ask a few additional questions for clarification.

 

First, have you sat down and discussed your needs for sexual intimacy with your wife? I'm not talking about a brief discussion that happens at the moment of attempted initiation. I mean really sat down and had a good, long conversation about your needs for sexual intimacy with her? If so, what did she say? I saw a lot of "excuses" for not wanting to have sex, some or all of which may be valid, but has she actually addressed this issue with you by giving you a concrete reason for not wanting to engage you in sex more often? If so, what was her reason?

 

I'm from the school of thought that a marriage involves, by definition, working to meet each others' needs. If it doesn't, then it really begs the question of "why bother with marriage" in the first place. She has an obligation to meet your needs and you've the same to meet hers. I'll even go further to state that it's my opinion that, within a balanced and healthy marriage, you should each strive to meet your partners needs MORE than you strive to meet your own. If it's balanced, you both end up so much more fulfilled.

 

She has an obligation to meet your sexual needs. You will find yourself resenting her and starting to stray, even if just emotionally, if she does not. But you owe it to her to have a lengthy discussion about what HER needs are accordingly and ensure that you don't have any gaps there either.

 

For my wife and I, it was a number of issues. The biggest was my personal cycle of libido versus her own. She was exhausted after dealing with the kids all day and wasn't really that up for vigorous sex after 9P or so for years. I, on the other hand, would get "worked up" after my nightly shower and emerge frisky and ready to play about 10:30P or 11P....far after she was already passed out in bed or very near it. So it took some life-changing schedule shifts to make things work...but boy did that ever pay off big time. 5 years later, we have sex several times a week and usually after extended mutual foreplay. But there was definitely a dry patch where things weren't so great and it took a lot of work to get us back to where we both wanted.

 

Once you start talking about this, you may have to really, really listen and observe as to whether or not you are hitting her "mental/emotional g-spots" in your communication. Sexual intimacy starts FAR outside the boundaries of the bedroom. She may not respond well to the love language of personal touch, which I read you are doing a lot of and it sounds like you continue to do this to try and get her in the mood. She may be looking for acts of service (household chore help, childcare help from you, etc) from you as a means of getting her fired up, or any number of other things.

 

But long and short...I'd like to know what she's told you about why she isn't interested in sex with you....then maybe I can offer better advice.

[Cobra_X30]

Well, at this point you know its her problem. Unless you can live like this forever, you need to sit her down and tell her straight that she needs to fix this! Is it mental... or is it physical? She needs to tell you if it hurts, or if she isnt attracted to you anymore... or whatever.

 

If she wont put out the work to fix it. Show her some divorce papers... that may show her how serious you are!

[DazedandConfused66]

Oh and while you are at it....

 

Can you describe for me HOW you actually approach her for sex? I read the part about backrubs. Do you just naturally "wander" down further than her back afterwards and attempt to engage in physical foreplay? Do you kiss/make out beforehand?

 

A few other things.....hygeine? Weight (doesn't sound like an issue if you are both in the gym together...bravo there btw). Does she have any physical "mysterious female issues" down south of the beltline that may be making it physically uncomfortable for her?

 

I'm not trying to pry and, from your description of your early marriage, it seems like the two of you have no issues with getting each other worked up, at least once upon a time. But, after kids, the female body goes thru all kinds of changes, some of which can contribute to sexual dysfunction.

[DazedandConfused66]

Well, at this point you know its her problem. Unless you can live like this forever, you need to sit her down and tell her straight that she needs to fix this! Is it mental... or is it physical? She needs to tell you if it hurts, or if she isnt attracted to you anymore... or whatever.

 

If she wont put out the work to fix it. Show her some divorce papers... that may show her how serious you are!

 

Jeebus, he says he loves his wife, and if every single marriage issue regarding sex resulted in shoving divorce papers in front of the offending spouse and FORCING them with an ultimatum.....wow. That's kinda forcing a problem into a battle, don't you think?

[Cobra_X30]

Jeebus, he says he loves his wife, and if every single marriage issue regarding sex resulted in shoving divorce papers in front of the offending spouse and FORCING them with an ultimatum.....wow. That's kinda forcing a problem into a battle, don't you think?

 

LOL...

 

It's a last ditch effort friend. Some poeple need to see how serious the issue is before they actually begin to take responsibility and do something!

 

Better to start divorce proceedings than to try and find a mistress!

[Scrivdog]

The OP illustrates the main source of puzzlement for 99% of married guys - "why did it take nothing to get her turned on before we were married and now she looks like she wants to vomit when she see my d*ck?"

 

The guy has 2 kids - and you expect him to just leave? How is that so much better than getting a mistress? At least with a mistress he can still take care of his kids.

 

Don't give me your sanctimonious honesty horsesh*t about honesty either - because if there was any shred of honesty in the OP's case - she'd come out and tell him that she doesn't want sex with him anymore but that she also wants him to remain faithful (celibate) and bring home the bacon as a good husband should. Instead, she's making him jump through hoops while suggesting there's some nebulous quality he lacks that she needs to get turned on.

 

But of course, neither she nor any other woman who puts her husband in this spot will ever say that because she knows that she'll wind up herding cats and scouring match.com for a new sugar daddy. It never fails.

 

Hey don't get me wrong, if there was a way to work it out with the wife, then that's the best course of action, of course. But based on what I've seen, what I've read on this and other relationship boards - that has about a .001% chance of happening for the long haul.

 

It's also completely moronic to suggest he play the divorce card as a ploy to put fear on her in the hopes that this might turn her around. The fact is - she'll just be and feel coerced. Probably not what the OP is looking for. If you're going to mention divorce - do it when you're really ready to leave.

 

The problem with many women's attitudes towards marriage is that they see it as a contract with specific fidelity constraints that makes them think they can just relax on their obligations to the marriage. There's a special place in women's daytime talk show hell for guys who stray outside the marriage in hopes of getting someone to appreciate them as men. I feel bad for the OP, because there are no good options besides these:

 

1) Stay celibate for the rest of your life

2) Divorce and be a weekend dad

3) Get a mistress

 

There are no other options he can take unilaterally. Fixing the issue with his wife will require her cooperation and willingness to accept there is a serious issue that needs resolving. Good luck with that. We've seen how wel that has worked out with our married male friends on this board

[Ladyjane14]

Fixing the issue with his wife will require her cooperation and willingness to accept there is a serious issue that needs resolving.

 

I certainly do agree with the above statement. But, how exactly does slinking around behind her back with a mistress accomplish it?

 

You know, not every man prioritizes the sexual function in general over his relationship with his wife. Some actually want sex with their wife, and not just some random hole. Go figure.

 

I could maybe see your point if the mistress was out in the open... but if the wife doesn't know, how does it change her attitude?

[DazedandConfused66]

I feel bad for the OP, because there are no good options besides these:

 

1) Stay celibate for the rest of your life

2) Divorce and be a weekend dad

3) Get a mistress

 

 

Damn you guys are a fatalistic bunch, aren't you? The OP has already worked on SOME things but if he wants intimacy AND a healthy marriage there are literally dozens of additional options out there to him. Counseling is just one.

 

There are no other options he can take unilaterally.

 

Nor should he. It's a marriage. Anyone who thinks you can fix your marriage unilaterally is arrogant, an idiot, or both. A marriage involves TWO people, a simple fact that I think 99.99% of the posters on this board somehow overlook when they think of ways to 'fix' things. And if you are a male, it's our natural tendency to WANT and BELIEVE that we are capable of "fixing" things unilaterally. That, in and of itself, is the root cause of most intimacy issues. The problem isn't fixable BY us but it can certainly be BECAUSE of us. In almost every case, a man who doubles, redoubles and triples his efforts to "fix" the marriage only ends up frustrated because in their mind they SHOULD be able to fix it themselves but they can't. I've been there, done this, have the t-shirt. In my case, and everyone's is different, the problem was partly my own and partly my wife's. We had some physical issues to address as well. But there were literally dozens of options available to me and us, I was just too narrow minded and arrogant to accept that I wasn't able to fix things on my own.

 

Fixing the issue with his wife will require her cooperation and willingness to accept there is a serious issue that needs resolving. Good luck with that. We've seen how wel that has worked out with our married male friends on this board

 

If that last statement is sarcasm, then this is a sad, sad place. I'm living proof you can fix just about anything that's wrong with a marriage IF both parties sacrifice their selfishness and arrogance and work at it. The operative word there is BOTH. If just one person changes and works at it, then it's not likely to do anything to help. BOTH parties have to a) recognize the issue is there, b) be willing to change and focus on meeting the other spouses' needs more than their own and c) have the stamina, desire and discipline to KEEP AT IT for the rest of their natural lives. Marriage requires constant work. Whether it's a labor of love or futility entirely depends on the individuals involved. For many posters here, it's the latter simply because they choose to not follow the 3 rules above or they are involved with someone else who choses to ignore them.

[Kasan]

The OP illustrates the main source of puzzlement for 99% of married guys - "why did it take nothing to get her turned on before we were married and now she looks like she wants to vomit when she see my d*ck?"

 

Well, I will tell you a couple of reasons why--

 

Personal Hygiene--you men made a great effort to look and smell nice when you picked us up for a date. The thoughts of jumping your bones isn't the first thing that enters our minds when you come in from painting the house. Maybe you should approach us after you shower.

 

The farting, belching, and picking your nose in front of us is a turn off too.

 

Picking up off after you doesn't do much for us--it sometimes feels like we have another child.

 

Arguing and then having make-up sex doesn't do it for us or at least me.

 

You men need to understand that we women are as visual as you are. We want to be turned on looking at you. We also wonder what the h*ll happened to you when we got married, just like you do. We want to be attracted to the whole package! Oh and while we are at it, a little mystery is nice. I think that we make the whole marriage thing more complicated then it needs to be.

 

So before you flame me--I have never cheated, never been tempted, and have been married a very long time.

[Scrivdog]

I certainly do agree with the above statement. But, how exactly does slinking around behind her back with a mistress accomplish it?

It doesn't - he's doing that because there is no reasonable hope for change. What it does do is allow the guy to have someone who cares about him while still maintaining the practical responsibilites he already committed to.

 

You know, not every man prioritizes the sexual function in general over his relationship with his wife. Some actually want sex with their wife, and not just some random hole. Go figure.

I agree with you 100%. But alas - that wife he wants often is the one making it clear by her actions that she does not want to see him naked. And you're dead wrong if you think it's about sexual function. Most guys fall for the mistress because she's extra nice to himn and lets him know she thinks he's wonderful - not because she's flashing her tits at him in the parking lot.

 

I could maybe see your point if the mistress was out in the open... but if the wife doesn't know, how does it change her attitude?

It won't. I firmly believe that coersion and fear on her part will lead her to become sexual only as long as it takes to get secure again and not a minute longer. This is not about effecting change in the wife. This is about making life livable for the husband who is now in a very difficult spot.

 

I met up with an old college roommate of mine last month - and he had just broken up with a girlfriend of his 7 years. They had sex every day -sometimes multiple times a day even after years of being together. But the whole time he was with her he made it clear he wasn't interested in marrying her and never would be. I often wonder if they would have been have having as much sex if they had tied the knot years earlier.

[Ladyjane14]

It doesn't - he's doing that because there is no reasonable hope for change. What it does do is allow the guy to have someone who cares about him while still maintaining the practical responsibilites he already committed to.

 

I'm not even going to open that can of worms with you, Scriv. You and I will never see eye to eye on it... because at the heart of it, I believe that when one serves himself singularly, he ends up with only himself. He's misrepresented 'who he is' to all, lived in dirt and dishonesty as a means to an end. Nothing is REAL because at the root of it, he isn't who he said he was.

 

But alas - that wife he wants often is the one making it clear by her actions that she does not want to see him naked.

 

You just can't seem to come to terms with the idea that a wife's sexual aversion is NOT something which needs to ALWAYS be internalized as rejection by the husband. We've gone over it I-don't-know-how-many-times now, but a woman's sexuality is fluid, not static. There are ebbs and tides which are inexplicable to you, because you just can't FEEL what a woman feels.

 

And you're dead wrong if you think it's about sexual function. Most guys fall for the mistress because she's extra nice to himn and lets him know she thinks he's wonderful - not because she's flashing her tits at him in the parking lot.

 

Well, how "wonderful" is he then? Is he wonderful enough to be living his life above board? Is he wonderful enough to be an honest man? ...a role model for the children he purports to love? How valuable is the opinion of some tart who'll f*ck another woman's husband anyway?... valuable enough to stuff a gag in the mouth of the man in the mirror?

 

It won't. I firmly believe that coersion and fear on her part will lead her to become sexual only as long as it takes to get secure again and not a minute longer.

 

That's assuming that a woman's willingness to change is in response to "coercion and fear" rather than to new-found understanding. Knowledge gained doesn't just fly right out the window. Once she knows and accepts certain data it stays with her.

 

Bottom line, a man who is not emotionally fulfilled within his relationship, owes it to his partner to address it. And if it cannot be addressed in any other way, then yes... I'd recommend that he leave the marriage. Not as a threat and not as a bargaining chip, but because the marriage has become intolerable.

 

If that helps the light-bulb go off for the wife, and if the husband still has enough room in his heart to allow her to back-peddle.... so be it. A second chance could be born. If not, c'est la vie.. she had her chance to pull her head out of her ass and look at more points of view other than just her own.

 

 

 

Anyway, the OP has stated his desire to have a more fulfilling sexual relationship with his wife. Not to have sex with random "holes". Not to abandon the marriage. He's made it fairly clear that the sex he wants to be having is with the woman he married and still loves.

 

There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's do-able. All it takes is a mutual understanding of what each partner truly needs within the relationship to feel fulfilled and satisfied... and a willingness to supply it to one another. In most cases, where the husband is sexually unfulfilled, it's because his wife is applying a female lens to the subject of sex.

 

I would suggest to the OP that he and his wife educate themselves on the subject. Books like The Sex-Starved Marriage, His Needs / Her Needs, and The Five Love Languages would be a good start. If they don't make headway on their own, a medical evaluation and MC would be in order.

[DazedandConfused66]

 

I would suggest to the OP that he and his wife educate themselves on the subject. Books like The Sex-Starved Marriage, His Needs / Her Needs, and The Five Love Languages would be a good start. If they don't make headway on their own, a medical evaluation and MC would be in order.

 

Great reference materials. I've bought extra copies of His Needs/Her Needs and give them out freely to male friends of mine who ask about relationship issues....great book.

[Kasan]

but Scrivdog you really ticked me off.

 

I am really tired of the whole look outside the marriage concept when it starts getting tough.

 

In most marriages, things are wonderful until the kids start coming.

 

From the women's perspective, (and I am not making excuses here) I can't tell you how tough it can be once you have kids. Factor into the equation, working outside the home, taking care of aging parents (his and yours) planning family functions, social functions, and running the house I am really sorry to say sometimes there isn't that much left. How much more stress is added if you have a child that has a problem--autism, adhd--or money problems--you get my point.

 

Is it right, is it fair, most definitely not--also, we women aren't aware that the sexual drive for men is likened to a "white noise" (credit LJ) I never knew this--but even if I did would it have changed things?

 

I can honestly answer probably not. I was guilty of putting my husband last on the to do list. There just wasn't enough of me to go around. I was tired like the rest of your wives--our sex life dwindled also like the rest of your wives. There were times that I wanted sex to be over and done with--why, I needed to think about who needed to go to the doctor's, the project that needed to be finished at work, and who was picking up X at school.

 

Was I a bad wife--by some of your standards yes--I wasn't meeting his needs. By your standards he should have found an available young thing to put him first and stroke his ego. Why didn't my husband look outside of the marriage? I honestly don't know, and in my exhausted haze I probably wouldn't have noticed.

 

I am very blessed that this man took his vows that he made to me as seriously as he did. He could have ranted and raved, stormed out of the house, and just been an a**hat, but he often told me that he knew I was doing the best that I could. Was he a martyr--no, he honestly loved me and knew that it would get better. And it did.

 

All I can say from my experience is kids do grow up, parents die, life becomes less chaotic, what was important in your 20s is less important in your 40's.

 

No one should be a martyr to their marriage, but I wonder what your expectations of marriage were to begin with. What did you really think life would be like?

[Integra]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm new here - I didn't really know where else to turn for advice. I am sure I'm not the only one with this problem, but I have an issue with my marriage and could use some help.

 

My wife and I have been married for just over 9 years and have two children. Initially our relationship and marriage was extremely fun - lots of intimacy, etc. After the birth of our son, everything started to slow down. Over the past 5 years, our sex life has gone from extremely active to virtually non-existent. It's at the point now were we are only intimate about once a month, sometimes once every 2-3 months.

 

It's become very frustrating and I don't know what to do about it. She has a lack of interest in sex. Each time I try to initiate something, I get met with an excuse of some sort - all of which have been valid. So I set out to remove any excuses or limitations to reduce her stress and perk up her interest. Didn't help. As soon as I overcome an excuse, she finds another one.

 

First it was fear of getting pregnant again. So I got myself fixed, of which she fully supported as we have no intention of having any more children. Hasn't helped.

 

Next it came down to timing, kids, etc. So I arranged for my parents to look after the kids and took her out for a romantic dinner, a comedy show (which we greatly enjoy), etc. Didn't work. I even arranged a weekend away with entertainment, fine dining, sight-seeing, shopping... didn't work.

 

After that she wasn't sleeping well. So we went shopping and bought a new bed set, with new mattress, etc. She now sleeps very well. Didn't work for my problem.

 

Next she had a sore back. I would spend about an hour each day massaging it. I got her into physio. Physio recommended aerobic activity so I got us both gym memberships and we go to the gym several times a week. Her back is feeling better - Didn't change anything for me.

 

The latest issue is that she says that she needs to want it. She has to initiate it. I spend lots of time giving her attention - back rubs, foot massage, play with her hair, etc. Take her to movies, dinner, shopping, etc. Nothing gets her interested in sex.

 

I used to walk into the bedroom and she would jump me. There wasn't any need to create an interest... she was more than interested for the both of us!

 

What else can I do? I try to take on any problems that might stress her to make her life easier. I have jumped through every hoop she wanted me to, but none of it gets me anywhere.

 

When we do have sex she wants it over and done with as quickly as possible. I'm at the point now were even if she "gives in" to me, then I probably won't want it anyway. I want her to want it like she used to.

 

I am still very passionately in love with my wife. She is my world. She rocks my world. There's nothing I wouldn't do to make her life better. Part of that love is the intimacy we share. I need that. It is what keeps me going though the daily grind.

 

What else can I do? I am worried because the other day while at the gym I was checking out another woman there and started contemplating what sex would be like with her. I don't want that to happen! That's not me! I'm starting to become resentful towards her. Right now it's 3.58am and instead of being in bed, I'm up using the internet as I don't want to be around her after being rejected again. I don't know if I can keep taking the rejection. It makes me feel like i'm not important to her.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm at my wits end.

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

 

Ok Mike.. You seem like a man who is willing to

try anything to get that spark back with his W.

That's a good thing.. As long as your willing

there is always hope..

 

The first thing I want to share w/ you is this.

When women have children.. Our bodies

change permanently in some ways and

so do our hormones and various chemistry

levels.. Just like w/ the changes that come

with age, there's not much we can do. It's

just natural.. Most women do not realize

this and even when we do, what can we

do.. This can greatly change our sex drives

and the way we feel about sex.. Also many

women feel different about themselves as

a sexual being after having children, and they

view sex differently.... These are just a couple

of things that could possibly be going on w/

your wife..

 

In all honesty, and many women do not

feel comfortable talking about this, even

w/ a devoted spouse. But I'm going to

share a secret w/you.. Those women who

are affected this way from having children,

usually aren't "turned on" the same way

they were before the children. Not just

psycologically, but physically.. For example

did you realize that if your wife has given

birth vaginally 2x, that her clitorus has probably

moved down a few cms. Why? when you are

sewn up after the after childbirth, (just like

when you sew fabric) things tug down a little..

Just little things like this change the way your

W/ will receive pleasure.. Think about it, do you

really think alot of women, even if they realize this

is happening feel comfortable saying, "You know,

it really doesn't feel good when you touch me like

that anymore.. I need you to touch me this way"..

That's just one small physical change. There

are alot of mental thoughts and perceptions that

also change for many women after they have

children.. Not that they just feel "dirty" (though

some do).

 

I can not tell you for a fact that the above things

are for sure happening w/your wife.. But they are

a possibility..

 

Then one thing that really stuck out to me.

Was the whole issue of her having to want it

and to initiate, and finnish quickly.. Dont' let

the next statement ruffle you ego too much, ok

Mike.. It's not meant that way.. Most of the time

when a woman wants you to just get it over with,

she's not enjoying it.. We don't want something

over quickly if we like it.. Just human nature...

 

You and your wife need to have some serious

open discussions about your sex life and each

of your individual sexualities.. If you've been

married I while (I see almsost a decade, congrats

by the way), both idividuals in the M really do not

address w/ one another (most of the time, there

are no absolutes in life) there changing sexual

needs.. We change as people.. What makes us

hot changes.. What makes us want tor rip

our clothes off and explore all night, changes..

 

My best advice. Like LJ, I suggest. read some

books toghether concerning sex and communication.

Learn how to really talk to one another about sex.

How you both feel about it.. What are your needs,

her needs, what gets you hot, what gets her

hot.. Look, as we change, get older, however

you want to phrase it.. We change, and usually

it takes alittle more time, and effort to get those

sexy juices flowing.. My H and I read these books

together.. Hey, it's alot of fun reading a few pages

in a book together, discovering something new

and then trying it... Sometimes it can be a crazy

new position, even if you don't enjoy it sexually,

there are times, that just trying something new

can just be fun/funny and bring two people

together for a moment. Lighting a candle and

reading some Rumi aloud to one another.. There

are endless things that two people can explore

together when it comes to sexuality and pleasure.

 

Some people do not agree. But I say through

my experiences in my M.. Nothing can improve

your marriage ( and life in general ) more than

learning how to communicate...

[tommyr]

The OP illustrates the main source of puzzlement for 99% of married guys - "why did it take nothing to get her turned on before we were married and now she looks like she wants to vomit when she see my d*ck?"

 

Count me in the 99% majority who puzzle over my wife's non-existent sex drive. Just like tons of husbands who post on here, sex was mutually great until the kids came along.

 

mike_m76au, it sounds like you are pretty enlightened about the situation and are already doing alot to help your wife along. This was one of my first steps too - I could see my wife was totally "burned out" by the hectic job of full-time Mom. My efforts to help out were definitely appreciated - our relationship improved greatly BUT our sex life remained infrequent.

 

I did alot of research - this forum is a great resource.. use the Search feature... and do not skip LadyJane's posts because she shares much wisdom on this topic.

 

One thing you need to do - may be difficult but you must do it - talk to her openly about your sexual needs. Do this in a non-sexual situation .. like after dinner when the kids are watching tv. It might take several conversations over many weeks before you start getting each other's message. I learned that my my wife simply does not have much sex drive these days. Sad but true. Did not used to be that way, but it is not her choice so I did not blame her for that.

 

What IS her choice is her decision to keep saying NO to my advances. Also her decision to fill every waking moment of her day with some kid-centric activity. She was making choices each day that created obstacles to us having sex - there usually was no time left for us, and if an hour happened to be left over, she was guaranteed to be "too tired" and rightly so.

 

The message that I kept telling her is this: if our marriage is important then she needs to re-prioritize her daily schedule to ensure time and energy is available for "us" as a couple. Sometimes that will be used for pointless chatter, sometimes reading books in bed together, sometimes a massage for me or her, and sometimes... SEX. But she had structured her life in a way that precluded sex, and to her that was just fine but not to me!

 

Fortunately for me, she does value our marriage and she has been making time for "us". Now I will warn you it took about a year and a few $K in counseling but (for now) our marriage is great and we have a "sex date" tomorrow morning.

[Scrivdog]

LadyJane,

 

Yeah yeah - but you're just imposing your own morality on someone else. He may not be wonderful to you - but infidelity is rampant enough that to hold your generalization - you'll also have to write off 70% of men as scumbags.

 

Unlike many of you here - I don't think that all people who go outside the marriage are bad people. Some are, no doubt. Some guys will, I grant you, sleep with any woman anytime regardless of how great their marriage is. But I've seen too many cases of good guys finding themselves forced into situations where they face sexlessness for the forseeable future.

 

I worry that this place is all too willing to help the guy come down even harder on himself than he already has. He already thinks he's failing as his ego is taking a monumental hit.

 

So far, the responses have been urgings that he find even more things to try as if he hasn't already tried hard enough and some veiled accusations that he's maybe a bad lover and/or practices bad hygene.

 

If the wife decides she wants to acknowledge the problem and work with him to see what can be done - then I'll be the first to say this is the route that needs to be taken. But just here on this board we can see already how many guys have tried just about everything to turn things around to no avail. I sense the OP is already there.

 

I'm not advocating that he find a mistress as a first option - but I do think that a point must be reached where a married guy needs to admit that nothing is going to change. At that point he has few choices - none of them all that good.

 

I don't see infidelity as a great option. Probably few MM do. I happen to see infidelity as a lesser evil than divorce - I guess because I value staying in the same house as my children more than the vanity of avoiding other people's caricaturizations of myself as a monster and the OW as some cheap tart. Divorce would be much easier in that it would make my relationship with my OW far less complicated and more pleasant - believe me.

 

When I look in the mirror, I see a guy who has had to make tough choices while facing great resistance from people in general. I see a man who has had to make an unpopular choice - but one that meets his needs while not abandoning those close to him because they no longer serve his needs. My wife lives well - and I'll always take care of her as do my children. She can at least count on that. I have not and will not leave her for the OW until the kids are grown. I'd rather see that in the mirror than some chump who's left his testicles in a jar or a guy who has abandoned his wife and kids.

 

Some of you evidently believe that leaving the house and being a weekend dad is somehow more honorable. You're entitled to your views - and I won't even accuse you of "purportedly" loving your kids.

 

Some of you may be sick of hearing about guys who choose this path. But you need to hear your own excuses. And yes - they are excuses. I realize you have Oprah, your Starbucks shrews, and Dr. Phil on your side as you weep about the injustice of it all. But you have no reason for thinking your husband would be OK with a near sexless marriage. Not when it is soo damn easy to keep him happy.

[Faith4u]

I think it is better to get thing going quikly ONLY after discussing with the partner and seeing that there is no hope at all. Better than being with a mistress and getting a third problem to deal this.

 

LOL...

 

It's a last ditch effort friend. Some poeple need to see how serious the issue is before they actually begin to take responsibility and do something!

 

Better to start divorce proceedings than to try and find a mistress!

[Faith4u]

Hello,

 

I just wanted to point out that her problem may be physical.

After giving birth many women feel less down there... because of babies

that they carried. Hey, I do not have kids so I do not know if this is really true. Ask her- why not? she is your wife!

 

What I know that based on the caracter of the person, some people are not comfortable saying when they do not like something in bed especially that she DID like being with you before and it has obviously changed.

 

Have you suggested spa? bath? time off with her in spa area? drinking a bit to get into the mood... I know that if I am with my husband in a gathering 4 people or more... I feel that it makes us closer and we look at each other with more passion during the evening and we end up having sex that night. Do you have activities envolving friends? that could help a lot...

 

Also you MUST discuss the seriousness of the issue with her. Do not let it slide. See what she says and whatever she says you need to stress on the point that you can not stay like that longer and you are willing to work with her on this if she wants a change. Let us know how it goes...

[Kasan]

So far, the responses have been urgings that he find even more things to try as if he hasn't already tried hard enough and some veiled accusations that he's maybe a bad lover and/or practices bad hygene.

 

I was being sarcastic at what you wrote and I apologize to the OP.

[Kasan]

Some of you may be sick of hearing about guys who choose this path. But you need to hear your own excuses. And yes - they are excuses. I realize you have Oprah, your Starbucks shrews, and Dr. Phil on your side as you weep about the injustice of it all. But you have no reason for thinking your husband would be OK with a near sexless marriage. Not when it is soo damn easy to keep him happy.

 

I don't make excuses for my actions in my marriage--it was what it was for the reasons that it was. Is my marriage sexless now--no. Are the factors that made it that way in the past there now--no.

 

If my husband had an affair than it would be equally his fault and my fault as we were/are a partnership. One thing I know about my husband is he would have the integrity to come to me first before he went outside the marriage--something everyone deserves.

 

I also acknowledge that we can stand on our heads and still not make our partners happy. You have your thoughts as I have mine about what constitutes the breaking point/line in the sand in a marriage.

 

May your line in the sand bring you much happiness.

[petuniababy]

You men need to understand that we women are as visual as you are. We want to be turned on looking at you. We also wonder what the h*ll happened to you when we got married, just like you do. We want to be attracted to the whole package!

 

I agree. A lot of times its not just the women who 'let themselves go'... Its hard to be a chef in the kitchen, a hostess in the living room and a whore in the bedroom, when the sexy, clean shaven man you fell in love with doesn't shave when he has downtime, leaves his dirty socks everywhere, and lets his waistline and his manners go.

 

I'm not male bashing. Not at all. Both parties have responsibility toward each other in a relationship to keep themselves attractive. Its just that men have been traditionally viewed as visual, but women want to be attracted to their partners too.

 

And talk to her. She's your best friend and companion. Sometimes when you're with someone for so long, its hard to get aroused by the same old, same old, even if the love is there. Talk to her, with openness, kindness and sincerity. See whats going on with her before you seek out other options.

[petuniababy]

I have not and will not leave her for the OW until the kids are grown.

 

I'm sure your choices were tough, and I do feel for you. No sarcasm here. No person should live in a sexless marriage, it doesn't do either party any good. Sex is part of the intimate relationship that two people need to survive. Love without passion, passion without love doesn't = a long term relationship for most.

 

Just one question? How is your OW dealing? I've been there, didn't want to, but fell in love with him, and have never fallen out. I'm living with him now, and we'll be together for the rest of our lives. He had no kids to wait for, but it still took a lot of time, and hurt a lot of people. Wouldn't change it for the world, even through all the pain, because he is my soulmate, but I can't help but wonder. Are your kids young? How is she handling you waiting for the kids to grow up? And will she still be the one once they've grown?

[Scrivdog]

OW has moments when she's not dealing too well with it. I always tell her that I won't do anything about it - if she can't take it anymore then she should leave me - even if I don't want her to go.

 

I'm sure your choices were tough, and I do feel for you. No sarcasm here. No person should live in a sexless marriage, it doesn't do either party any good. Sex is part of the intimate relationship that two people need to survive. Love without passion, passion without love doesn't = a long term relationship for most.

 

Just one question? How is your OW dealing? I've been there, didn't want to, but fell in love with him, and have never fallen out. I'm living with him now, and we'll be together for the rest of our lives. He had no kids to wait for, but it still took a lot of time, and hurt a lot of people. Wouldn't change it for the world, even through all the pain, because he is my soulmate, but I can't help but wonder. Are your kids young? How is she handling you waiting for the kids to grow up? And will she still be the one once they've grown?

[White Flower]

The latest issue is that she says that she needs to want it. She has to initiate it. I spend lots of time giving her attention - back rubs, foot massage, play with her hair, etc. Take her to movies, dinner, shopping, etc. Nothing gets her interested in sex.

 

I used to walk into the bedroom and she would jump me. There wasn't any need to create an interest... she was more than interested for the both of us!

 

Hi Mike,

It seems you have tried everything to make your wife comfortable and open to the idea of lovemaking, except perhaps hormone/sex therapy. There are natural things to add to a diet such as flax seed oil for moisture, liquid perscriptions she can rub on, and even some meds if she's depressed, or overwhelmed.

 

I am still very passionately in love with my wife. She is my world. She rocks my world. There's nothing I wouldn't do to make her life better. Part of that love is the intimacy we share. I need that. It is what keeps me going though the daily grind.

 

What else can I do? I am worried because the other day while at the gym I was checking out another woman there and started contemplating what sex would be like with her. I don't want that to happen! That's not me! I'm starting to become resentful towards her. Right now it's 3.58am and instead of being in bed, I'm up using the internet as I don't want to be around her after being rejected again. I don't know if I can keep taking the rejection. It makes me feel like i'm not important to her.

 

Have you thought of sharing this with her? Does she know how badly you need her, not just for her body, but also for the intimate and personal connection with her soul? Women need to hear that sometimes. We need to know it is not just about sex. We need to feel that you yearn to connect with our mind during sex. It sounds like you want this, but have you conveyed it to her?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm at my wits end.

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

Don't start anything with another woman. It will ruin her life, yours, and your wife's. Keep trying and be patient. I think it is awesome that you sought advice here before venturing out and hating yourself later.