women who've dealt with commitment phobes-late 30's preferred

[uniqueone]

Why do you think that YOU know why men stay married.

THis statement above is a perfect example of how little women know about men, and how much you need to listen and learn ..

Man stay married because MEN want to honor their vows and commitments .

I can give you countless documentation to support what I said if you'd like. Let me know if you'd like the links on the research.

[jophil28]

I don't know about that. The men may stay married because of finances or kids. And instead, they'll opt for having affairs.

 

*>> This is pure speculation on your part AND a cheap shot at men ( " they'll opt for affairs"). You cannot possibly know how men think if you are a woman , unless you have polled a good number of men who were in this sutuation.

 

 

And most women don't file for divorce without reason. Most of the time, they've tried to make the marriage work for years without the husbands cooperation.

 

*>> Once agin you are offering a conclusion which is nothing more that unfounded speculation. You are also implying that women are somehow 'victims' of uncaring men and are 'matryrs ' to poor marriages which are in decline because of the man's indifference.

 

Perhaps more women file for divorce than men because women lack true commitment strength and endurance, or they are immature in their expectation of marriage itself .

 

Is that purely speculative ? Yes ? But not more so than your unfounded ramblings.

 

[Woggle]

Men claim to not understand women and to a large extent I feel this is true but as evidenced by this thread and others women are utterly clueless about us for the most part as well.

[jophil28]

And the capitol of Manland® is Menver®

 

 

THat's good !

I wanna be Mayor .

[jcster]

Perhaps more women file for divorce than men because women lack true commitment strength and endurance, or they are immature in their expectation of marriage itself .

 

The whole idea of staying in a marriage out of obligation is great in theory and nearly impossible in practice. The reason that more marriages end in divorce nowadays is that these last few decades have been the first time in known history in which it has become possible for women to support themselves outside of marriage, and the first time that divorce has been easy (relatively - I can tell you, it's NOT easy) to accomplish. Previously, men stayed in marriage out of love or duty - but they could always leave. Women had to endure - there was simply no other option for them.

 

Why would anyone choose to stay in a relationship without love? And yes, love does fade, and if we were all omniscient, we might find a way to prevent that from happening (I know I would have, it's one of the worst things any human can ever experience). I know that I personally could never tolerate keeping someone with me out of a sense of duty. That would be worse than the alternative.

 

I don't fault you for your convictions, but convictions rarely hold water when faced with everyday life and the simple fact that (at least in this case) they rarely serve much purpose other than extending the agony.

 

Perhaps I'm answering your statements with far more seriousness than they merit - I'm getting a feeling that you're not putting as much thought into your statements as I am into my rebuttals - but until you walk a few miles in some other people's mocassins, you might want to speak for yourself and only yourself.

[jophil28]

The whole idea of staying in a marriage out of obligation is great in theory and nearly impossible in practice. The reason that more marriages end in divorce nowadays is that these last few decades have been the first time in known history in which it has become possible for women to support themselves outside of marriage, and the first time that divorce has been easy (relatively - I can tell you, it's NOT easy) to accomplish. Previously, men stayed in marriage out of love or duty - but they could always leave. Women had to endure - there was simply no other option for them.

 

Why would anyone choose to stay in a relationship without love? And yes, love does fade, and if we were all omniscient, we might find a way to prevent that from happening (I know I would have, it's one of the worst things any human can ever experience). I know that I personally could never tolerate keeping someone with me out of a sense of duty. That would be worse than the alternative.

 

I don't fault you for your convictions, but convictions rarely hold water when faced with everyday life and the simple fact that (at least in this case) they rarely serve much purpose other than extending the agony.

 

Perhaps I'm answering your statements with far more seriousness than they merit - I'm getting a feeling that you're not putting as much thought into your statements as I am into my rebuttals - but until you walk a few miles in some other people's mocassins, you might want to speak for yourself and only yourself.

 

There is nothing new in this post .

 

Do you have a precise point to make ? If so, please make it .

[jcster]

Do you have a precise point to make ? If so, please make it .

 

Obviously nothing that you would understand - maybe you'll understand it when you're in high school.

[Woggle]

The point is that women these days in record numbers are leaving on a whim to go find themselves and many men don't know what hit them so single men see this and it makes them scared ****less of taking the plunge. They see it in their families, they see it with their friends and many of them have even seen it with their parents. Men are afraid of divorce not marriage and since many of us have seen good men all of a sudden have their wives turn on out of the blue them we wonder what is the point of even trying to commit and be a good husband. I know that my biggest fear in my marriage is one day coming home and getting the D bomb dropped on me. This poster wanted to know why so many men are afraid of commitment and this is why. A woman can just snap her fingers and say she is not happy and all of a sudden a man loses half of what he owns and he is lucky if he sees his kids once a week. It is a huge gamble.

[Trialbyfire]

How long have you dated a guy before you brought up the topic of marriage? I'm specifically asking about a situation where YOU had to bring up the topic.

How long did you stay with him before the relationship eventually ended because of his commitment issues

I'd especially like to hear from women in their late 30's.

 

thanks

I'm not in my late 30's but I will ask one thing. If you have to be the one to bring the topic of marriage to the table, is he really the man you want?

[RecordProducer]

I am in the midst of a divorce. This is my husband's third marriage and it's the longest so far: a year and a half. He has no kids (he adores mine though) and made me and his ex abort our pregnancies.

 

If that's not a commitment phobe, I don't know what is. Nobody ever meets the perfect person, but some people invest effort into their relationships. Most people want deep, meaningful relationships that they build for years. Some people run away from problems and seek superficial relationships, that don't require much effort, and consequently, will be easy to break. They are usually the dumpers and they never see anything wrong with them; they are all great, they just choose the wrong women.

 

Why are they like this? Who knows, who cares!

 

In my husband's case, it's lack of father's love that screwed him up. His father is a mean, cold person. Yet, my husband believes that they are very close. Of course, he doesn't know any better.

 

are you saying that you don't ever ask where the relationship is going? and if you do, doesn't marriage come up?

I think being in a relationship for months or a year without ever talking about how it's developing and what it stands for is like being pregnant and not doing anything about it: you ARE doing something. If no expectations for the future are ever verbally indicated for a long time, it speaks for itself that things are not getting serious anytime soon. And when I say serious, I mean true love, not necessarily marriage or even living together. Frankly, I don't feel like re-marrying ever again, but I still want a serious long-term relationship. People can be very independent and still long for emotional commitment. However, if we're talking about marriage, not commitment, then the reasons are usally related to freedom and money. A guy doesn't want to have someone poop on his head every day, he doesn't want to report to anyone about everything he does, he doesn't want the feeling that this is it for the rest of his life, and he doesn't want responsibility. And a woman with enough self-respect shouldn't want a guy who lacks the most substantial traits for marriage. My guy got cold feet one day prior to our wedding date (we got married a week later), he never bought me an engagement ring, even though I've asked for one later. He started talking about divorce in the second month of our marriage.

[uniqueone]

*>> This is pure speculation on your part AND a cheap shot at men ( " they'll opt for affairs"). You cannot possibly know how men think if you are a woman , unless you have polled a good number of men who were in this sutuation.

 

*>> Once agin you are offering a conclusion which is nothing more that unfounded speculation. You are also implying that women are somehow 'victims' of uncaring men and are 'matryrs ' to poor marriages which are in decline because of the man's indifference.

 

Perhaps more women file for divorce than men because women lack true commitment strength and endurance, or they are immature in their expectation of marriage itself .

 

Is that purely speculative ? Yes ? But not more so than your unfounded ramblings.

 

I'll provide you with the backup on it if I get time to look for it. Otherwise you can do a search yourself. And I'm not saying this is all men btw. And I'm not saying that women are faultless in it either.

 

This is aside from what I'm talking about above, but this is a very common scenario is in marriages:

 

Man pursues woman before marriage, pays her lots of attention, romances her and makes her feel special. They have great sex.

They get married.

Man does the above things less and less. Woman doesn't feel like having sex as much because she doesn't feel as special.

Woman tries to get things back to the way they were at the beginning. Relationships are a priority to women and woman reads countless books and articles on how to get things back to the way they were.

Man doesn't see a problem except for the lack of sex which is starting to make him feel more distant from his wife. He starts to feel unloved.

Man gets noticed by another woman and feels sexy again and affair develops.

(AND/OR)

Woman gets noticed by another man and he pays her lots of attention and affair develops.

(AND/OR)

Neither has an affair but resentment and distance grows as man feels bitter over lack of sex and woman feels bitter over lack of attention.

Divorce papers get filed.

 

 

Let's throw kids into the mix and it gets worse because the lack of attention and sex are compounded by the energy devoted towards kids.

 

And if kids are involved, towards the end, the man weighs staying in the marriage vs. seeing his kids infrequently and losing control of his finances.

[uniqueone]

Here are a few excerpts from a Phd who specializes on this topic. [bolding mine]

 

Said by women:

 

I hurt all the time because I feel alone and abandoned."

"My husband is no longer my friend."

"The only time he pays attention to me is when he wants sex."

"He is never there for me when I need him the most."

"When he hurts my feelings he doesn't apologize."

"He lives his life as if we weren't married; he rarely considers me."

"We're like ships passing in the night, he goes his way and I go mine." "My husband has become a stranger to me, I don't even know who he is anymore."

 

 

Women tend to be more concerned about their marriages than men. They buy most of the books on marriage to try to improve them and initiate most marriage counseling. They often complain about their marriages to their closest friends and sometimes to anyone who will listen. And they also file for divorce twice as often as men.

 

 

Why do women leave men?

 

Each day I am confronted by women who are extremely frustrated with their marriages. They usually express no hope that their husbands will ever understand what it is that frustrates them, let alone change enough to solve the problem. From their perspective, marital problems are created by their husbands who do little or nothing to solve them. Wives tend to see themselves as the major force for resolving conflicts, and when they give up their effort, the marriage is usually over.

When I talk to their husbands, they usually have a very different explanation as to why their wives feel the way they do. They often feel that the expectations of women in general, and their wives in particular, have grown completely out of reach. These men, who feel that they've made a gigantic effort to be caring and sensitive to their wives, get no credit whatsoever for their sizeable contribution to the family. They feel under enormous pressure to improve their financial support, improve the way they raise their children, and improve the way they treat their wives. Many men I see are emotionally exhausted and feel that for all their effort, they get nothing but criticism.

 

 

 

Simply stated, women leave men when they are neglected. Neglect accounts for almost all of the reasons women leave and divorce men.

I have little trouble convincing most men that verbal and physical abuse are legitimate reasons for their wives to leave. And there has been increasing social pressure on men lately to avoid hurting their wives physically and verbally, which makes my job even easier.

But neglect is a much tougher sell, and it is also much more difficult to overcome than abuse. While it is the most important reason women leave men, it is hard to convince men that it is a legitimate reason, something they should avoid at all costs.

 

 

Some of the common complaints I hear from women is, "He ignores me except when he wants sex, he sits and watches television when he could be talking to me, he rarely calls me to see how I'm doing, he hurts my feelings and then never apologizes: Instead, he tells me I'm too sensitive."

Most husbands are mystified by these complaints. They feel that their wives demand too much, and that most other women would be ecstatic if married to them. Their wives have become spoiled, take their efforts for granted and have unrealistic expectations.

 

What are women looking for in men? They want a soul mate, someone they trust who is there for them when they have a problem, who takes their feelings into account when decisions are being made. Someone to whom they feel emotionally connected.

[Woggle]

Mybe if women would stop reading so many articles and books by people who know squat about relations and started just being enjoyable people to be around like they were in the beggining maybe men would make more of an effort. Women tend to overanallyze things and twist things around in their head.

[uniqueone]

Mybe if women would stop reading so many articles and books by people who know squat about relations and started just being enjoyable people to be around like they were in the beggining maybe men would make more of an effort. Women tend to overanallyze things and twist things around in their head.

 

 

AGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jcster]

Women tend to overanallyze things and twist things around in their head.

 

And men tend to ignore the facts in front of their faces and instead chose to listen to their own internal dialogues until the truth is unavoidable, and then they cry that "they didn't know."

[uniqueone]

And men tend to ignore the facts in front of their faces and instead chose to listen to their own internal dialogues until the truth is unavoidable, and then they cry that "they didn't know."

 

 

[APPLAUSE!]

[norajane]

i really should rephrase my question. Everyone is focusing on the "commitment phobe" issue, and that is my fault for phrasing it that way. Forgetting his "commitment" issues that he may or may not have,

1. at what point in your relationhip do you bring up where the relationship is going?

2. what do you think is the longest amount of time you'd date a guy before you left him if he hasn't proposed?

 

1. I bring it up when I start thinking about it. And I tell him that I've started thinking about it, and would like him to do the same so we can discuss it after we've both had some time to think about it.

 

2. If you are certain that you want marriage and children, then you need to understand his views on both. You can start by asking him how he feels about marriage and kids in general, not specifically in connection with you. That will give you a good sense if you are with a man who wants that for himself, or a man who does not. If he does not, then you can decide if you want to be with him anyway or not. If he says he does want marriage and children, but has never talked with you about these things during the course of your relationship, odds are, he isn't thinking about marrying you.

 

You wait only for as long as you are comfortable that you know your mind and that he knows his. Once you believe he's not into the idea, or he is stringing you along, then you know it's time to walk away.

 

BTW, your thread seems to have been majorly hi-jacked by people going off topic and discussing whether men or women are more likely to leave a marriage for whatever reason. You have the power to report your thread to the moderators here and ask them to delete the off-topic posts which have nothing to do with your question.

[Pyro]

I just find it amusing that this thread topic was about guys who may be commitment phobes and the women haters are trying to turn this thread into a women are evil thread.

[Woggle]

This thread is not being hijacked. The OP wants to know why so many men ara afraid of commitment and I am telling her exactly why. This is very much relevant to the topic. He needs assurance that he won't end up in the same situation that so many men find themselves in.

[Pyro]

This thread is not being hijacked. The OP wants to know why so many men ara afraid of commitment and I am telling her exactly why. This is very much relevant to the topic. He needs assurance that he won't end up in the same situation that so many men find themselves in.

 

Women cheating and leaving their men are not the ONLY reasons why men are afraid of commitment. A huge part, IMO has to do with what jcester mentioned a few posts back. Stop blaming it all on women.

[norajane]

This thread is not being hijacked. The OP wants to know why so many men ara afraid of commitment and I am telling her exactly why. This is very much relevant to the topic. He needs assurance that he won't end up in the same situation that so many men find themselves in.

 

No, that's not what she asked. Re-read her posts.

[RecordProducer]

Please note that the topic was about commitment phobes, which means we're talking about SOME men. Generalization about all men or women doesn't apply, because most men are not commitement phobes. While I am not against digressions in thread, I do think it's important to answer the question posed and stick to the point. If your point is that most women are bad and that's why some men are afraid to get married, then say it that way please. Accoding to you, Woggle, when the price of gasoline goes up - it's women's fault.

[Woggle]

Please note that the topic was about commitment phobes, which means we're talking about SOME men. Generalization about all men or women doesn't apply, because most men are not commitement phobes. While I am not against digressions in thread, I do think it's important to answer the question posed and stick to the point. If your point is that most women are bad and that's why some men are afraid to get married, then say it that way please. Accoding to you, Woggle, when the price of gasoline goes up - it's women's fault.

 

Everything is not a woman's fault but commitment has become too much of a gamble for most men. Would you enter into something with a 50% failure rate where the other party will be the cause of that failure 75% of the time carelessly? I doubt you would so why do women find it so shocking that some men look at the odds and decide the risk is not worth it?

[Trialbyfire]

Everything is not a woman's fault but commitment has become too much of a gamble for most men. Would you enter into something with a 50% failure rate where the other party will be the cause of that failure 75% of the time carelessly? I doubt you would so why do women find it so shocking that some men look at the odds and decide the risk is not worth it?

Are you stuck in your misogynistic moment? Is it a glorious place to be? Do you enjoy being a victim?

[Pyro]

Everything is not a woman's fault but commitment has become too much of a gamble for most men. Would you enter into something with a 50% failure rate where the other party will be the cause of that failure 75% of the time carelessly? I doubt you would so why do women find it so shocking that some men look at the odds and decide the risk is not worth it?

 

You keep saying that 75% of divorces are filed by women. If that is true, then I am sure that a huge chunk of that percent is due to the guy physically or emotionally abusing her or because he cheated on her. So if that is the case, then why is it so bad that they file a majority of the time? It takes strength and courage to file for divorce and pretty much everyone is attracted to a strong-willed man or woman.