CanyonWall Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Why is that? I used to subscribe to the "Nice guy" theory but then something happened to me: I changed. I'm still a nice guy. But my attitude has changed. If I'm lonely, I'll seek out female company. I'll experiment. I'll ask women out who I wouldn't normally date. I'll keep improving my dating skills. I'll make sure I go out to meet women at least once a week (not bars, btw).
CaliGuy Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Why is that? Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" - Glover, to find out why. Everything you need to know about why Nice Guys (DOOR MATS) always lose is right there in black and white. (And how to fix it).
shadowplay Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Nice guys don't really finish last...It's just that some people use "nice" as a synonym for passive or insecure. Guys who are nice AND confident are what most women look for. The reason some women are attracted to *******s is because they tend to be more confident.
Trialbyfire Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Agreed. Nice guys don't finish last, doormats do.
CaliGuy Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Nice guys don't really finish last...It's just that some people use "nice" as a synonym for passive or insecure. Guys who are nice AND confident are what most women look for. The reason some women are attracted to *******s is because they tend to be more confident. Nice is usually associated with being a door mat. GOOD is usually associated with CONFIDENCE. Good, confident men are not door mats. Nice men often are overly nice (door mats) because they are not confident and feel they need approval from others (because they can not find it in themselves). The trick is BALANCE. Be nice when you should be nice, be mean when you should be mean (such as being taken advantage of). I wrote a long post about this about a year ago. It's probably archived by now but it explained this concent quite well.
buckdawg Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Nice is usually associated with being a door mat. GOOD is usually associated with CONFIDENCE. Good, confident men are not door mats. Nice men often are overly nice (door mats) because they are not confident and feel they need approval from others (because they can not find it in themselves). The trick is BALANCE. Be nice when you should be nice, be mean when you should be mean (such as being taken advantage of). I wrote a long post about this about a year ago. It's probably archived by now but it explained this concent quite well. perfectly stated
underpants Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 I am not attracted to the "doormats" in the same manner that I am not attracted to the "arseholes". They are two extremes of what I consider to be unpleasant/unstable personality types. It is okay to have nice attributes as well as even the occassional arsehole tendency. When these extremes become the definition of your character and cause you to doubt yourself then a re-evaluation of how you interact with others might be in order. Personally, I prefer a genuine person who can communicate. That is a start. Add some self respect and respect for others and that is attractive.
Trialbyfire Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Personally, I prefer a genuine person who can communicate. Good luck with "effective" communications. Most people are too self-involved to be willing to negotiate. When I see this happening, I shut down myself.
underpants Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Good luck with "effective" communications. Most people are too self-involved to be willing to negotiate. When I see this happening, I shut down myself. Me too. A girl can dream can't she.
niceguy27 Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Personally, I prefer a genuine person who can communicate. That is a start. Add some self respect and respect for others and that is attractive. I agree with this. If you are deep down a nice person and really care for other people, you have nothing to change. Because you give that kindness and generosity without any strings attached to it. You just have to remember to put yourself first (in a good sense, not selfishly) when dealing with other people (SO, friends, strangers). If you know you are a good person deep down who cares for others dont hide it at all. Real people will see and appreciate the genuine kindness. Keep those qualities along with a knowledge that YOU have a lot to offer youll do just fine.
Trialbyfire Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Me too. A girl can dream can't she. Haha...my cynical side says, yes, it's a dream so don't be confusing it with reality. Then, the stupid side comes out and says, yes, there's someone out there who can effectively communicate. It will become a reality.
MattyTee Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Haha...my cynical side says, yes, it's a dream so don't be confusing it with reality. Then, the stupid side comes out and says, yes, there's someone out there who can effectively communicate. It will become a reality. Well, it's a learnable skill and plenty of people _can_ do it. It's not that stupid to assume you'll meet them Two-way street though - you have to make sure you can both communicate effectively.
Trialbyfire Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Two-way street though - you have to make sure you can both communicate effectively. I agree that it's a two-way street. I believe this to be one of my skill sets.
buckdawg Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Haha...my cynical side says, yes, it's a dream so don't be confusing it with reality. Then, the stupid side comes out and says, yes, there's someone out there who can effectively communicate. It will become a reality. you know what though? were we ever taught to communicate openly within a relationship? i know i wasn't. how can we expect to master such a delicate skill without ever having an example to follow. my house growing up was...unpleasant. lol not horrific but not great. i know my mom and dad didn't 'effectively communicate' so how was i supposed to? it is learnable but let's keep in mind that most people probably don't even realize that they aren't communicating effectively. lol
MattyTee Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Very true Dawg! Similar situation for me - no idea how to communicate in a loving and respectful way (I mean my mum used to throw plates at my Dad for crying out loud ). I never even realised that it was something you could learn until the break-up (first relationship). Now I do, well I'm learning every way I can. Sorry Trial, didn't mean to suggest you didn't / couldn't ... was just stating
Trialbyfire Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 you know what though? were we ever taught to communicate openly within a relationship? i know i wasn't. how can we expect to master such a delicate skill without ever having an example to follow. my house growing up was...unpleasant. lol not horrific but not great. i know my mom and dad didn't 'effectively communicate' so how was i supposed to? it is learnable but let's keep in mind that most people probably don't even realize that they aren't communicating effectively. lol One way of verifying if your communication style is effective, is to realistically view your historical relationships and why they worked or dissolved. Even viewing your social and work relationships will help.
Pyro Posted October 12, 2007 Posted October 12, 2007 Why is that? I'm sure this has been said already, but nice guys do not finish last. Jerks/as*holes and doormats finish last. Big difference between being nice and being a doormat.
CaliGuy Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 Good luck with "effective" communications. Most people are too self-involved to be willing to negotiate. When I see this happening, I shut down myself. *cough* There are still SOME men out there who are effective communicators.
birdie Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 If you are deep down a nice person and really care for other people, you have nothing to change. Because you give that kindness and generosity without any strings attached to it. You just have to remember to put yourself first (in a good sense, not selfishly) when dealing with other people (SO, friends, strangers). If you know you are a good person deep down who cares for others dont hide it at all. Real people will see and appreciate the genuine kindness. absolutely 100% right. plus the commitment to work on those communication skills that everybody else has mentioned. this is a way to build healthy and successful relationships
Medea Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 This sounds corney but I really believe that if you treat people the way you would like to be treated you won't be a doormat or a jerk... actually this hasn't been working for me lately but I'm sure it will again lol.
Krying Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 A new person I met over the last week said something that made sense to me. We were talking about the modern day "guy", and how it appears men have become more feminine due to women wanting guys who express their feelings more, are more affectionate and so on. But the conclusion was it was all a crock. Working women and professionals in this day and age often claim they don't need a man. But they are realizing, they can't have it all. Time is against them in the sense that after 30 their body clock starts ticking in terms of having children. So sooner or later they have to either live what they preach or find that guy to settle down with. In all of this, a lot of men have become girlymen, trying to give their women they they say they want. But in essence, all women really want is a challenge and often that can be found in jerks. The nice guys are deemed not worthy, needy and all that crap. Anyway, the thing this person said to me was this... If a women wants a man, she should treat him like a man. If she wants a ninny, then treat him like one. This couldn't have rung more true for me. When my ex was treating me with respect, that loving look in her eyes, I felt invincible and very happy. When she started treating me like I was a wuss, I felt like one. What changed? I didn't change, but she did. How she related to me changed. And thus she ultimately left the relationship. There was nothing I could have done to turn it around. I keep kicking myself thinking of the what ifs, but it was simply down to her and what she felt and wanted.
Toolate Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 I have learned this recently. Talking to other girls like human beings isnt being a jerk. Its trying to have a little human contact, which is what we all need. Before me and my EX broke up i was scared to talk to girls and would look at other guys talking to girls like...oh yeah, she buying into his lines, what a dummy. But after we broke up i had no choice but to build some confidence (it kinda just happened really) and talk to other people and share a little love. Now its like my whole persona has changed, i get looks all the time and i can talk to anyone now that i see them as people. Those little conversations turn quickly into winks and flirting, which i love!! I never knew i was such a stud!!! haha. Now that me and EX are back together im still getting all this attention. She knows ive changed and if this happens again ill be just fine. We are working things out rather nice by the way, but being left like i was hurt like hell and i am not going back to my old ways.
LoisLane Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 Good guys don't finish last. Nice guys don't usually finish last. Doormats yes. They always do because they let people walk all over them. Go for the good guys. Bad guys are over-rated.
Recommended Posts