NC when something good happens SUCKS

[carrotgirl]

Oh. Sure. It didn't suck to see him pacing and being nice in seeming relation to me ignoring him, but I wasn't ignoring him as a tactic. I was ignoring him for sanity. I was spinning.

 

Once he knew I was ignoring him, he was pissed. Mostly because I really hadn't been nice to him that week and the more time we had apart, the less pleasant I got. After he checked to see was I really avoiding, he was done. He felt like he'd made an effort to get on and I was bitter and nasty.

 

When we talked on the phone the other night he was beyond pissed and sick of me. He was happy to say okay, let's not be in contact any more. I said great. Let's work out the logistics of how we're going to handle work and friends so that we don't have to ever talk to each other again.

 

Yah. He liked that a lot. Funny that's where a lot got fuzzy about us and not talking about doing NC. I don't remember how we got to me being upset he blew off our date last weekend. I remember him saying again and again he was sorry. I remember saying it didn't matter now. I remember all of a sudden he asked do you want to do a movie tonight or Sunday?

 

And things kind of stopped. From never talking to each other again to do you want to see me tonight? That's something a man does when he wants to be away from a woman? I said no to the movie. I don't really remember what I did say. I must have asked if he wanted to talk. He asked me did I want to do that over at his place or at my place. So I said my place.

 

No. Men do not do this. If he didn't want to be with me he wouldn't be with me. Period. He came over to see me the other night because he wanted to see me. He spent four hours here talking because he wanted to talk with me. He could have spent that time alone. He could have spent that time with any one of his friends. He could have left after hour 1,2 or 3. We weren't that deep into discussion. He wanted to spend that time with me.

 

So okay, we're going to call this friends? Fine. Something is screaming in me that this isn't an attempt to be "just friends" this is a weak lame attempt to get me back in his life without actually looking like he's getting me back in his life. Otherwise why would he bother?

[carrotgirl]

Unders, NO! You didn't offend me at all. Forgive me please? I hadn't meant my wording to be harsh.

 

I just had this very sick feeling wash over me contemplating it and realized, it was a direction that wouldn't be good for me. At the same time, I've been on this I'll take the high road mission for the last month and that's not exactly serving me. I'm happy to get down and dirty but for some reason this morning it got me kind of uncomfortable.

 

Make no mistake. I'd have sex with the ex in a heartbeat. I know I would. Sex with him was great. Kissing him was... amazing. I could kiss him for days and do nothing else. Just holding him was great. Sleeping with him was great. I'd do any of it all over again. But I am too proud to throw myself at him. He wouldn't like it. He thought the sex was great too. I'm sure he would like me to respect his space and not touch him. So that's what I aim to do.

 

Leaving after dinner strikes me as a good idea, though the ex will usually start a movie so we can watch while we eat. It's going to depend on what dinner is and where.

 

The game in my head goes something like I'm not going over there if he doesn't call me. We didn't set a time. At least I don't think we did. If we did I forgot. Doesn't matter. If he doesn't call me to ask I'm not going over. Even if normally I would have just gone to his flat for dinner and attacked him before without a set time, that's over.

 

Carrot

[Spinderella]

Or if as others have suggested, he is a commitment phobe, to keep you in his life without having to be responsible for a relationship. To keep you in his life, but with him in control. To keep you in his life, but in such a way that he doesnt have to commit to you, and can go if he wants to, on the grounds that "this, is just a friendship".

[AriaIncognito]

Just to comment on the sex with the ex thing.

 

I would say many people go in thinking nothing will happen. It will be a cold day in h*ll. Etc.

 

However, it happens. I know this because it happened to me.

 

One time, the ex and I were broken up but we were trying to be friends. I went over his house and as would always happen, we spent hours together watching tv, talking, laughing. Nothing physical. Then all of a sudden it's really late and he tells me not to drive home because it's too late and I didn't fight him. Then there we are both in his bed and he kissed me, or I kissed him I dont even remember. We both got ourselves all worked up. Then he was all no I dont want to do that cuz "what would it mean" and he backed off but then like an hour later I guess I convinced him or something changed because we did. And it was very different that time. It wasnt like he normally was. It wasn't really "loving" it was more "sex" if that makes any sense.

 

I didn't and don't regret it, however, it did put an extention on my misery. I think that was back in April if i'm remembering correctly and we kept seeing eachother as friends (who apparently occasionally made out and sometimes had sex) for another 2 months.

 

Then he dropped me quicker than yesterdays paper because he found somebody else.

 

Just be really careful. These non-commital types are insanely hard to read, they will mess with your emotions almost unknowingly. They honestly aren't good for any of us who want to live happily ever after. There is no happily ever after with them.

 

Just food for thought. How long is it til dinner where you are?

[carrotgirl]

Aria, thanks for the laugh. Now if the ex suggested I spend the night because it's late I would know for certain he was making a play. I live just down the street!

 

Several hours to go I'm afraid. I almost walked to the pub for a beer and a sandwich, which I knew was really to get a quick ego boost from the boys. I was out of the house and turned around and went home.

 

I'm really tempted to not bother showering off before I go. I'm very smelly and dirty from exercising. My hair is gross. It's tempting to just throw on some unwashed jeans and a shirt and say, here I am. Now that it's in print I'm liking the idea even more. Too bad I already brushed my teeth.

 

I don't know if he's commitment phobic or not. We're not so old where that moniker seems fair. It's possible.

 

I do know it's true that I didn't love him unconditionally as I thought I had. I've been reading. I think (said with no guilt) that my well intentioned love was actually monstrously conditional. I didn't know there were so many different ways to make something seem conditional! I am getting it now. At least I'm learning.

 

That he asked me to stop giving doesn't leave me feeling as bad as all that. At first I panicked like oh no. How will you know I love you if I don't offer to take your dog out while you study for tomorrow's exam? That was when I realized, yeah. I really was trading myself. I thought it was just me being generous. And in fairness to ME, if he didn't want me to take his dog out for example, he should have said, that's all right, I'll take care of it.

 

So now he told me. Now I know. It's beginning to feel like a relief. All I have to do is show up and be like I used to be in the beginning. Just a girl who was the object of attention and affection.

 

I'm hungry. My neighbor just stopped over to complain that Cat left a mouse on her welcome mat. Now I think that's generous! Of course Cat raised his back and hissed at her like she was the devil. I'm sure she's cursing me right now.

 

Carrot

[underpants]

Carrot,

 

Don't get drunk/tipsy before or during this dinner. You need to keep those Carrot wits about you.

 

I don't know about literally playing dirty. Girl, get in the shower.

 

Also, like I said previously I don't know if tonight would be a good time for a relationship discussion. I would probably opt for the breeze/bye and wait for another invitation...drama work week cycle.

 

That being said. You matter also Carrot.

 

He has given you a laundry list of things. (not to much of it makes sense to me apart from wanting the 'friend' title and overuse of "I".)

 

If you have an opportunity (maybe not tonight) tell him what you need and want.

 

If it is an exclusive romantic relationship that you can feel comfortable in, then let him know that. Tell him that you would prefer to have one with him but if he is not comfortable with that then you will explore other options because ultimately that is something that you want for your future. Let him know that eventually this proposed 'friendship' will take a back seat to someone not afraid to love, communicate and work with the Carrot instead of throwing away a relationship at the first feelings of uncomfortableness.

 

I wish you the best...boys are stupid sometimes.

[carrotgirl]

Okay, okay, okay. I AM A TERRIBLE PERSON!

 

I meant no accidental vilification of the ex. He did NOT give me a list of things. We talked for 4 hours. Those were what I thought some important take aways were.

 

Yes, he said those things but not in that order. They are all out of context. I put it together like that because it was easier for ME to look at that way. I would have written down more for everyone here but it would have taken me 8 hours to type about 4 hours!

 

The only actual order or context to that list is the first thing was said first and the last thing that was actually said last.

 

MEA CULPA!

[underpants]

Okay, okay, okay. I AM A TERRIBLE PERSON!

 

I meant no accidental vilification of the ex. He did NOT give me a list of things. We talked for 4 hours. Those were what I thought some important take aways were.

 

Yes, he said those things but not in that order. They are all out of context. I put it together like that because it was easier for ME to look at that way. I would have written down more for everyone here but it would have taken me 8 hours to type about 4 hours!

 

The only actual order or context to that list is the first thing was said first and the last thing that was actually said last.

 

MEA CULPA!

 

Oh no Carrot,

 

I apologize. I know that list was a concise and out of context version of a conversation you had with him. I realize that. I have been following you story over several threads.

 

I think you are trying to understand him. I just don't want your needs and wants to get lost is his confusion.

 

That list is irrelevant anyway. It is how you choose to handle things now that I am concerned with and that I wish you the best of luck with.

 

You are not a terrible person, silly Carrot.

 

You are a smart and sexy Carrot that deserves to have a healthy wonderful relationship with a deserving man. Can he be that man? He has some work to do if you ask me.

[sao2]

Carrot, you should not feel guilty for ignoring him. Relationships are not unconditional and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

You deserve to get attention in a relationship, if the relationship is over then you deserve to take space for yourself to recover.

 

If he gets mad because you ignore him that is his problem and not yours. The relationship is over and that is really all there is to say.

[carrotgirl]

This isn't going to be a popular POV but after putting together some of my own thoughts with what the ex had to say and how the ex has been acting, I truly do think Carrot was the bad egg here.

 

I failed to see where I could have been going wrong. I was so sure I was loving and understanding and a good listener and supportive and you name it, I thought I was doing it.

 

This is not self-hate and this is not internalization. I am beginning to have a huge wave of understanding that I was not ANY of those things. Worse, I didn't even know it. I was not giving or generous at all. I mostly cared about how I felt.

 

In all of this mess, the only things the ex has done that can be construed as bad were, not telling me once ever I was acting like an idiot and then breaking up with me when and the way he did with no warning. He's acted like a gentleman even when I've been frosty. He's still seeking me out which is flattering. Okay, I could have done without him contracting with my company. That's pretty bad.

 

It's too late to put anything back together. I can't even say I'm feeling shame about having been so atrocious. I truly thought I was being a great girlfriend. That must have been what made him want to leave. There was no way I was seeing where I was going wrong because I was too busy thinking about how great I was being.

 

I don't know if we can be friends. I don't know if I even want to try. Thinking better to just forget all about him. I want him and there's probably no way he'd be interested again no matter how great the sex was.

 

Carrot

[Spinderella]

It is good to be self aware, and have an understanding. Just dont make the mistake of trying to compensate if it is too late to do so.

I think what you are describing really is most people in relationships. Relationships are seldom unconditional. Its good to realise that, but, (and i'm not suggesting you think you are) you are not unique in this error.

Was he truly unconditional with you? Is he being unconditional with you now? Not that it should make a difference to your standards of how you should be, but, just because it doesnt mean that because you were concerned with yourself in the relationship, he wasnt concerned with himself too.

You say it isnt internalisation, maybe it isnt, but you do seem to have him on a pedestal. I am sure he isnt quite the angel you make him out to be.

[carrotgirl]

I showered. Now I smell like soap. Ran out of hot water.

 

Spind, something for me to take to the next relationship right?

 

He's not on a pedestal. He just hasn't done anything wrong. I think it's maybe fair to say this time on LS, the dumpee was the unwitting pill and the dumper is a really good guy.

 

I think this may be the guy I kick myself over for the rest of my life.

 

All of you guys who say things like she didn't know how good she had it? I can only say in my defense. I knew how good I had it. I just didn't know what was needed to keep it. Had I known, I would have done better. Perhaps your women feel the same way....

 

No, no compensating. Too late for that. No teary confessionals. Too late for those. I'm holding it together. Don't think I'll be going over for dinner since he hasn't called. Yah. Just because I was clueless about how to play the game earlier doesn't mean I can't learn. Even if I was jerky, if he wants me he's going to have to let me know.

 

Sanity is drifting back I think. Well, for the time being anyway.

 

Carrot

[Spinderella]

Thats right. Next relationship.

 

I am sure that alot of the time the dumper is a good guy. Maybe if you were in error in the relationship he should have communicated with you about it. Maybe he didnt know how.

 

Well, perhaps he was wonderful, but this seems to be the second time he has stood you up. I suppose he has a right to, being as you were such a bad girlfriend. He has a right to call all the shots too, I suppose.

[carrotgirl]

Maybe if you were in error in the relationship he should have communicated with you about it. Maybe he didnt know how.

 

This is where I'm landing about now.

 

Well, perhaps he was wonderful, but this seems to be the second time he has stood you up. I suppose he has a right to, being as you were such a bad girlfriend. He has a right to call all the shots too, I suppose.

 

Play fair Spind. You don't see me calling him and we're not a couple any more. There's nothing wrong with my dialing finger or my legs. I could call or go over if I wasn't being stubborn.

 

I imagine the internal dialog is something like this...

 

Carrot says to Carrot....I'm not calling him. He broke up with me. I'm not about to go chasing after him.

 

Parsnip says to Parsnip....I'm not calling her. I broke up with her. I'm not about to go chasing after her.

[Spinderella]

Okay then.

Call him.

[carrotgirl]

Okay then.

Call him.

 

No.

He has to call me.

[Spinderella]

Carrot, I dont think you should call him. Unless you have decided either to go the friendship route, or play the game, and this is part of the game.

 

What would his reason be to not call you? Because he is not sure if you want to be friends more likely. Because he has said he will deal with your decision no matter what it is.

 

You seem to be moving through all the stages of a break-up, and with so much shifting of emotions, a decision made at this point is likely to chnge again. Of course no decision needs to be set in stone, but, the more you change your direction, the more complex the whole thing becomes.

Take a break. Take a break from even thinking about it.

[Spinderella]

No.

He has to call me.

 

If he calls you, what does that mean to you? What difference would it make? It would mean he wants to be friends, which you know. So, you have decided to be friends then, because, if he calls you, you will go.

[carrotgirl]

He just called. I let him get the answering service.

[Spinderella]

He just called. I let him get the answering service.

 

To stall for time? Or is it part of the game? Or you have decided NC?

[carrotgirl]

Stalling. I don't know what I'm doing.

[Spinderella]

Mmm. Do you think there is anything more he could tell you? Do you need confirmation on anything, that you think you would get from more time with him?

[underpants]

Give me the phone #, I'll call him.

 

Carrot, you are in a position. Any action or non-action will be perceived in some light by him. Probably in the light that suits his original decision. This is when 'the game' is forced upon people. How are you going to play?

 

Ignore....no contact, avoidance.

Game him and send his head into massive spinning mode.

Honest and direct communication (at a risk of loss).

 

I don't read where either of you have done anything terrible or really wrong to each other.

 

Personally, I don't like the fact that he makes a snap decision to end things with you rather then communicating his needs (here and there) as needed to keep the relationship going in a positive direction for you both. If that is how he ...copes/deals with mixed or new feelings then that is a flag to me. Does it make him the villian, no, but it does not make him a hero either.

 

Regardless of how this evening or future interactions play out. You have a place here to vent.

 

((hugs)) sweet Carrot.

[carrotgirl]

Mmm. Do you think there is anything more he could tell you? Do you need confirmation on anything, that you think you would get from more time with him?

No.

The only thing left is just him.

[carrotgirl]

Give me the phone #, I'll call him.

 

And if I had the pm option I probably would have...

 

Thanks for the pep talk.

 

I needed it.

 

Okay.

 

Deep breath.

 

I have no idea what I'm going to do...